Shoblongoo
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There's sooooooooo much bad fanfiction.
Recycled self-inserts, word-for-word novelizations, masturbatory fantasies, "AUs" that just have absolutely nothing to do with fire emblem except that the author put fire emblem names of the characters attending their fictional high school or talent agency or w/e, and just downright bad writing.
But there are gems. IF you wade through enough shit-fics, you will find them.
And what they add to the fandom is--pretty amazing.
Like I have legit read fics that permanently change my head-canon, and forever alter the way I play the game because I just can't look at the characters the same way after accepting what was written as part of their backstory.
"Wayward Son" by Gunlord--a VERY long and VERY detailed fic about Renault's history as a mercenary, is probably the best one out there (who am i kidding...probably. It's the best one out there. Not even close. Nothing else touches this fic in scope of ambition, finished work product, and raw quality. A must read for any fan of FE7)
There's a really good farina/hector one that I read a while back--blanking on the name right now, its somewhere in my favorites list--and its one of those fics where the backstory it gives to Farina just completely changes the way you view the character of Farina.
...There was "Feral." A really good Tellius fic following the premise that Lethe gets captured by Daein and taken to their Laguz murder-tower and turned into a Feral One. That one was dark. But really, really good. By VelkynKarma, I think.
I've written some that I'm proud of. And some that I'm not so proud of. I daresay "The Grandmaster" holds up. (I'm proud of that one)
Tomorrow I'll go through my favorite list and see if it jogs any old memories.
...thats a good cross-section of fics to start out with, if you just want to see how good fanfiction can build upon the series rather than shame it.
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I have now had the opportunity to review the video in its entirety. And as I’ve come to expect from Ghast, its an excellent video. Really hits on all the best points of Eliwood’s character.
I’d like to add my own thoughts, on a subject that both Ghast and Mangs have spoken about in passing; specifically with reference to how they can’t imagine a character like Izana actually running a country + how once upon a time, Fire Emblem lore and backstory actually had real elements of political intrigue.
And that’s the idea that Eliwood, as a LORD, is by definition a politician. A head-of-state. A policymaker. A leading figure in the apparatus of government.
This is true to some extent of many characters in the series. And its an aspect of the characters that is under-explored, as FE is not Game of Thrones. It’s a turn based strategy, and what the game ultimately cares about after establishing a pretense of backstory is how the characters behave and interact as units on a battlefield. Not as lords and ladies and politicians.
Tellius was the only Saga where the worldbuilding and the lore was really so well-developed and extensively presented that through characters like Elincia and Sanaki and Naesala, we got a sense for how our lordly units behaved as politicians. Not just how they behaved as fighters.
Well now from what we know ofEliwood’s character in FE6 and FE7—and we know quite a bit—I’m going to construct the image of Eliwood the Politician. Not the knight in shining armor wielding the legendary sword of sacred fire; but the man who sits the throne of Pharae, and administers his courtly duties as a Lord of the Lycian League.
…Because this is not jokey-jokes Izana. THIS is the real deal. The full package. A man who we can very easily imagine as an effective head-of-state and a political FORCE in his country; an Abraham Lincoln of a man who for generations to come, sets the gold standard for what an effective leader should be.I will break this into 3 parts
1) Eliwood’s political identify is an odd duality of conservative court-bred deference to Lycian tradition, and what in his day would have been considered a RADICAL form of egalitarianism. Which in-and-of-itself would have required tremendous self-awareness and cleverness to effectively balance.
2) Eliwood as portrayed in FE7 displays a number of traits that would have made him exceptionally well –suited to balancing this duality, and functioning as an effective political figure in spite of it.
3) Eliwood’s political acumen is fully vindicated in FE6; Eliwood is in fact the true savior of the Lycian League and architect of Zephiel’s defeat, whose cunning prevails where Hector’s strength-of-arms falters.
We will now address each of these ideas in turn
ELIWOOD’S POLITICAL IDENTITY
In one sense, Eliwood is the most conservative of the three lords in FE7. He has utmost respect for and deference to the traditions of Lycian aristocracy.
…in contrast to Hector; who is boorish in open court and respects only strength and loyalty, and who seems to think the etiquette traditions of Lycian aristocracy is all rather pretentious and silly. There is at least one occasion where Eliwood feels the need to apologize for Hector’s behavior and openly scolds Hector: “Your manners are terrible.”
…or in contrast to Lyndis, who is unfamiliar with Lycian etiquette and traditions because she was raised in Sacae. And who Eliwood tactfully makes a point of helping to coach, when she tells him as much.
Even in FE6: the first thing we here adult Eliwood say is “We will follow the ancient custom and…” in explaining to Roy why they must fight.
Throughout the campaign we see instances of Eliwood behaving not necessarily as he wants to, but as he believes he is required to by his station. He must act like a young lord. He must speak like a young lord. He must apologize when Hector does not act and speak like a young lord. He cannot say or do anything that would be unbecoming of his House or bring shame upon Pharae.
very traditionalist. very orderly. very restrictive code of conduct.
///On the other hand///
Eliwood is this radical egalitarian. And we see this most clearly in his C-Support with Fiora. Now bear in mind; this is not a particularly important moment or profound speech or monumental occasion for Eliwood. What he says in this support is something he just throws out in casual conversation—he’s so cavalier about it.And in a way that’s shocking. Because in the ethic of his day—Eliwood saying what he says here as the Heir of a Noble House, to a lowly Ilian mercenary in his service…
…That would be roughly equivalent of the son of a United States Senator in the 1950s walking around his prep school, proudly proclaiming that he’s a card-carrying member of the Communist Party.
This idea that the serfs are equal to the nobility. That they are to be treated as peers. That the aristocracy is not to Lord any special privilege over them. This idea would have been RADICALLY dangerous to any Lord that caught wind of it.And its something that as a Lord of the League Eliwood can’t just go around saying to whomever he feels like—he has to have some sense of political tact that if he says this to the wrong person, his ideas are going to be identified as problematic. Word is going to get out that Lord Eliwood of Pharae is an existential threat to the grand Lycian tradition of feudal aristocracy. And the knives will be out for him.
Yet this is undoubtedly who Eliwood is. And Eliwood is nothing if not true to himself; he is a man of conviction.
…But at the same time. Eliwood is also the tactful, conservative, court-bred traditionalist. The guy who knows all the etiquette and follows all the rules, and doesn’t like to stir the pot.As a ruling figure, there is an inherent contradiction here. How does Eliwood follow tradition and etiquette and avoid stirring the pot, while AT THE SAME TIME being true to a radical egalitarian ethic that if overtly obvious, would breach the puffy etiquette of noble society and be VERY alarming to his fellow Lords?
Simply put: with exceptional competence, or not at all.
This brings us to our next section.
ELIWOOD’S TRAITS AS A SKILLFUL POLITICIAN
The games focus primarily on Eliwood’s traits as they would be perceived as useful to an army; generally in this regard he as portrayed as less intimidating and dangerous than Hector, and even Lyndis. The traits established for Eliwood, however, are of a kind that if not immediately useful on the battlefield, would by-and-far-away make him the most competent statesmen of the trio. And which we can imagine being put to most excellent use in the window between FE6 and FE7.
ELIWOOD TOOK HIS EDUCATION SERIOUSLY, AND HAS A RESPECTABLE LEVEL OF BOOK-SMARTS + INTELLECTUAL CURIOUSITY. In the conversation where he teases Hector for not paying attention in numbers lessons, Hector serves as a foil to Eliwood. Hector did not take his education seriously; he only wanted to be a great fighter. Eliwood, by contrast, wanted to learn. He read. He studied. We can therefore presume he is knowledgeable in subjects that the son of a feudal lord would have been schooled on during the course of his education.
And this is not mere count-by-numbers. This would include such subjects as: classic literature, world history, philosophy, debate and political theory. Subjects that Eliwood learned eagerly, or at least willingly. And where demonstrable mastery thereof would establish him as a formidable man and respectable figure, in Court. As well as provide a font of knowledge for his day-to-day decision making and long-term plans; historical context and precedent and whatnot....Now you sometimes see characters like LUTE and MIRIEL. Who are intelligent and well-read, but socially clueless and incapable of functioning in polite company. Eliwood on the other hand…
ELIWOOD IS WELL-VERSED IN COURT ETIQUETTE. Again; in contrast to Hector and Lyndis…and looking even to other Lords in the series…in contrast to the braggadocios and unlikeable Erik, and in further contrast to the rude and dismissive Lord of Araphen. Eliwood is a Lord’s Lord. He doesn’t gaffe. He doesn’t offend. He has a measured, diplomatic manner of speaking.
…Now you sometimes see characters like MARIBELLE and CLARINE who are well-versed in etiquette, but uncharismatic and unlikable. Eliwood on the other hand…
ELIWOOD IS NATURALLY WELL-SPOKEN AND CHARISMATIC. And as anyone who follows real politics can swear and attest; this is a vitally important skill for any politician to have. Eliwood says things. He says exactly what he wants to say, and he says it with brevity and clarity in a few short, well thought-out lines. He doesn’t rant or ramble. And when he says things…people listen.
Ghast mentions Eliwood’s conversation with Hector at the end of HM, about Oswin. Ghast cites this as an example of his bromance with Hector. I cite this as an example of Eliwood’s talents for concise, well-thought out point making and persuasive speech.
I would also cite to Four-Fanged Offensive. Where at the end of the chapter—depending on what route you took—Eliwood will be captured by either Linus or Lloyd, and held with a sword to his throat. Then literally talk his way out of it, as he notes that the Black Fang is not evil and asks why they are fighting and makes Linus/Lloyd further question Sonia’s motives for ordering him dead.
…which in any other setting would read “asspull.” But Eliwood in-character does it so seamlessly and so believably, this wasn’t even on the radar as something Ghast chose to discuss as one of Eliwood’s definitive character moments.
...and finally…
ELIWOOD IS UNFLAPPABLE IN A CRISIS, A TANK OF EMOTIONAL FORTITUDE, AND BOUNCES BACK VERY QUICKLY AND WITH NO DRAMA FROM THE WORST KINDS OF ADVERSITY.Ghast covered this one in full detail.
Eliwood loses his father.Eliwood lives with the knowledge that the girl he loves is responsible for his father’s death.
Eliwood loses the girl he loves.
Eliwood lives with the knowledge that he is responsible for her death.
…and he just keeps on chugging along…nothing’s going to break him down or make him throw a woe-is-me tantrum of angst and agitation…
And if you want to know just how important THAT trait is for politician to have. Look at current American President and professional shitwizard Donald J. Trump, to see what it looks like when a man in high office lacks it completely.
…so Eliwood has a lot of really desirable traits here to govern, govern well, and govern well even when forced to confront the tortured dual-nature of being a traditionalist AND an egalitarian in feudal society.
That’s great. But beyond wild conjecture and inventive fanfic-ing, what if anything can we say Eliwood as a leader among Lycian Lords actually did with these traits?Welllllllllll
ELIWOOD: TRUE SAVIOR OF FE6
How does Lycia not get completely ROFL-stomp steamrolled by Bern in the beginning of FE6?Etruria. The pivotal moment was when Roy penned a letter to Etruria. And Cecilia came to his aid.
STOP….wait a damn-minute…
What was going on there; what was the foundational relationship that allowed that to happen? (…yes…we know it was in part because Etruria wanted Lycia in its debt, and saw an opportunity to one-up their biggest geopolitical foe in Bern. But it was more than that. Cecilia had to put in some work to make moves happen and did so only upon receipt of Roy’s letter. But upon receipt, it happened IMMEDIATELY).
…why exactly???
Well now Roy was previously training with Cecilia, in Etruria. As far as we know, none of the other lordlings were training in Etruria. Etruria is Elibe’s capital of faith and magical learning—Lilina STUDIES magical learning. Lilina wasn’t even training in Etruria.
Roy was studying in Etruria because Eliwood made him study in Etruria. Why did Eliwood make him study in Etruria?Basically, what would have had to happen here is that Eliwood became acquainted with Lord Pent during the events of FE7. As a fellow intellectually curious leader with egalitarian ethics, they would have had…quite a bit to build a statesmanlike relationship on.
From the fighting—also from Pent and Louise’s ability to arrange a meeting with The Queen of Fucking Bern—Eliwood would have very quickly come to understand the power of Etruria’s mage general, and the value of having such a figure as an ally.
Specifically after receiving Athos’s warning at the end of FE7 and seeing early signs of aggression coming out of Bern, Eliwood would have understood the value of having the Mage General of Etruria as an ally while staring down the barrel of a belligerent Bernese army.Therefore, as a statesman with a mind for preparing the defenses of his country against this looming threat, Eliwood would have sought to foster a continuing relationship with the Mage General of Etruria. Building bonds of friendship and trust. Swapping assurance of mutual commitments to each other’s interests. Building the relationship up to a level where if one day needed, they would rush to each others aid in a time of strife.
…Eliwood apparently understands all this in a very Game-of-Thrones kind of way, YEARS before the events of FE6 . He knows that Lycia cannot beat Bern in a coming war only by honing its armies; it must hone alliances.
And—by-and-through the exporting of his son’s training—Eliwwood makes just the ally he needs to do what he must.…Whereas Hector could only think to swing his axe at the foe in front of him.
And when the great foe came: Hector fought. Hector died. Hector didn’t achieve fuck-all. For all his might and skill as a warrior, a stunning lack of preparation and foresight preceded Hector’s response to Bern.
Hector was caught completely with his pants down.
…but Eliwood’s foresight and preparation carried the day…-Eliwood courts the favor of the mage general of Etruria, going so far as to entrust her with his son
-Bern invades
-Roy reaches out to Cecilia
-Cecilia comes charging in with the might Etruria behind her
-Bern fucks-off for a while
….Thats a very game-of-thrones move right there. Eliwood played a mighty fine hand.IN CLOSING
…That’s my extra insights on Eliwood. As previously mentioned, I write fanfiction. I like to think about aspects of characters that don’t get fully explored in the canon. Eliwood is one of my favorite characters.
Ghast really did him justice; that makes me happy.
And I hope I’ve shed some more light not just on why Eliwood is such a great character. But also all the things you can do with characters when you look at their in-game portrayals as a foundation to be built upon, rather than the be-all-and-end-all of what those characters entail.
Something for writers to think about. Something for hackers to think about.
And just something to always keep in the back of your head, when you’re going through The Lore.
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Love listening to these, Ghast.
I drive an hour and back each day to get to my apartment from work—always looking for good content to listen to for the drive—and the days you upload new stuff are days when I know my drive isn’t going to suck. Sooooo yeah; thanks for that.
I don’t have the technical know-how to hack and make my own games (sidenote—bloodlines kicks ass. Know its massively time consuming and you do it for free, so I can’t really bitch, but I do hope at some point you’re gonna get back to putting out new chapters). But I do write fanfiction. Fire Emblem FanFiction. Specifically a lot with FE7. Which requires extensive thought not just as to how the characters are represented in their in-game dialogue and portrayals, but also:
1) What we can extrapolate therefrom. That is to say—based on what the characters do and how they act in the scenarios that the games put them in—how can we expect them to act in other scenarios. Scenarios of our own making.2) What backstory not presented in the canon can explain why characters act the way they act?
3) What tweaks can be made to characters that are presented poorly in the canon to make them more enjoyable, engaging characters?
…so we think about a lot of the same things when we look at supports and the like, and try to deconstruct them. And I gotta say—you always bring a lot of really strong, on-point insights to the table. Its obvious that you’ve put a lot of thought into this and you take your characterizations very seriously. And you have a damn good time doing it!
I respect that.
Eliwood is a character I’ve worked with before and have a lot of fun with.
Very eager to see what you did with him.
Leaving the office now—going to pop this on as soon as I hit the road.
Rock on bro.
-Some Guy From New Jersey- -
1. Orochi
2. Pick your poison
3. Because shes bad, and using bad units boosts this joke-of-a-game up to an acceptable level of difficulty -
What if Grima was a sensible Destroyer of Worlds and, instead of poking its head around its own backside while you charge across it in midflight, just did a barrel-roll?
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On 5/17/2017 at 2:52 AM, MeddlingMage said:
all three had the skill Aether.
...oh god...
MODMERGE:
The most unintentionally hilarious moment in Fates is getting Dreadfighter Mozu to capped speed, 30 strength, 28 def, and 27 res before hitting her B support with an (underleveled) Silas.
Mozu: "Its pointless. I'll never be a great fighter like you. I'm not useful at all; maybe I should just go back to farming."
SilasNonsense! You just need to change your attitude; if you train harder you'll be a great fighter!"lol stfu Mozu. You're stronger than Xander." -
With a +def nature on corrin and the defense boost from the dragonstone, corrin gets tons of bulk and can function as a tank. Which is the best way to go about cheesing the early game...specifically that first chapter of conquest route where you fight all the faceless in the woods.
Promote Mozu to Dreadfighter and Odin to Dread Flier to continue cheesing the early game. The early game actually becomes kind of a joke with those 2, tbh (the only noteworthy exception being the clusterfuck that is Chapter 10)
The next super-tricky chapter after 10 is the one where you fight all the faceless on the eternal staircase.
But this one is very cheesable. You can actually low-man with only 4 units: Xander , +def Corrin holding a dragonstone+, and 2 pair-up bots with high defense bonuses to support them (i.e. General Effie + a Great Knight)
Basically--since theres no magic users on that chapter...as long as all of your units have at least 44 defense, absolutely nothing can hurt you. And all you have to do is just slowly make your way to the exit.
...then of course the endgame where you invade hoshido and kill garon is still going to be a pain in the ass...no way around that.
..but yeah...really...other than chapter 10, lunatic conquest is entirely cheesable up until about chapter 23.
Also--after you clear chapter 10, you can get away with only using your maids as healbots.
At which point--if you're using DLC--reclassing Elise to witch and immediately putting that colossal magic and speed to work on offense becomes very, very viable.
Witch Elise is basically a superior Nyx. A very superior Nyx.
And a nuclear fuck-off warhead of magical destruction, WAY earlier in the game then you should have one.
Her base class is of course perfectly viable too. But there she tends to fall behind and promote late, because healbots get so little experience in this game. And then once you finally promote her she has a lot of catching up to do on levels + weapon rank for tomes.
...which is unfortunate...
Because as previously mentioned, an Elise that can effectively utilize her speed and magic on offense is a nuclear fuck-off warhead. -
Icing on the cake--whichever future child you make her the mother of will turn out amazing.
...specifically for birthright...
Pair dreadfighter mozu with ryoma, for the silliest of tag-teams.
Enjoy that prince-meets-farmgirl love story.
And then get ready for some next-level shit when you unlock their S-Support. Because Hollllllyyyyyyyyyy Crap; your Shiro is going to be a monster.
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Yes. There is no unit that benefits from getting the Dread Scroll more then Mozu.
Dreadfighter Mozu is the most busted unit in the entire game--she's so good she can trivialize a number of otherwise tricky chapters of Conquest on Lunatic.
promote her IMMEDIATELY upon recruitment and give her a bronze dagger, to start grinding up her knife rank. Level her up as much as you can in her paraglouge, using dual strikes to feed her kills until she has enough strength to start downing baddies on her own.
She will very quickly catch up to the rest of your army after only a few level ups, then surpass everyone until your units start promoting. After which she'll still be one of your best units. As a dreadfighter she will gain tons of strength, speed, defense and res--the perfect stat spread--making her hard-hitting, dodgy, and tankish on both ends. (Give her a hunters knife and pair her with effie if you get around to playing conquest, and she can pretty much solo chapter 19)
And its even more disgusting how good she is on birthright, because its an easier game. You don't NEED a unit that good to trivialize it.
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On 3/4/2017 at 1:53 AM, Blade_of_Light said:
Blade here again, once again needing some roleplay advice. I have been wanting to do a roleplay in a canon Fire Emblem setting on anothe site, and with its rich worldbuilding (at least compared to other games) i thought Tellius would be a good enviroment to play in.
But this is the question i have, as i need ideas for plot arcs: if you were to continue the Tellius saga about a century after RD, what kind of plots would you like to see.
...I've thought about this a lot don't know if you're still taking ideas for a story, but this is what I've got:
800 years have passed since the events of Radiant Dawn
“He disappeared without a trace and went on a journey.” This is the end of Ike’s legend that has spread across the continent.
This is a LIE. Propaganda devised by those who know the truth, but wish to conceal it.
Ike was wed to a lady of Gallia. He took a cat laguz as his lover and they bore children—Ike was the first beorc ever to OPENLY take a laguz as his bride, without fear of discovery or reprisal, and to raise his children to be proud of both their beorc and laguz heritage.
In his day, no one dare speak against Ike himself. For he was The Radiant Hero. The God Slayer. The Breaker of Kings. The Strongest Man.
But old hatreds lingered, and old taboos would not be so easily broken. And there were many—beorc and laguz alike—who spoke in hushed whispers that what Sir Ike had done was disgusting. Sinful. A crime against nature and nature’s god.
…generations passed…
Ike’s bloodline bred without prejudice among all the races of Tellius. But Sir Ike himself was no longer alive to protect them, or warn the world that it was blind hatred between beorc and laguz had borught forth the WRATH of their goddess. Not love and comingling.Slowly, the old powers began to reconstitute themselves. Those who clung to the old ways. Those sickened by a world where beorc could lay with laguz and their progeny could roam freely.
Within 200 years of Ike’s passing, a new Beorc Empire had risen to power from the unified Kingdoms of Daein and Crimea—a new dominant force on the continent. They rewrote history. They penned the tale that Ike had left never to be seen again after his Final Battle—erased from the history books all mentions of his wife and family and his teachings during that time.
Within 400 years, the Empire had turned to genocide against the hybrid children of beorc and laguz (in the days of Ike and the centuries since, Beorc/Laguz unions had become rather common).800 years after Ike, “the branded” once again live in hiding, in fear of persecution. They are hunted as mutant-abominations and killed on sight. Among them are desendents of Ike who do not know they are desendents of Ike.
…this is a new generation of branded…
They have not lost their ability to formshift as a result of their hybrid lineage. They can use beorc magic and weapons and technology, AND they can tansform.
King Kurthnaga still reigns in Goldoa. He knows the truth, how history was distorted, and that Dark Days are gathering, where the world will have need for the noble sons and daughters of Sir Ike to learn of their true lineage. And to reveal themselves to the world.
…For Ashunera…the goddess made whole by the unity of Beorc and Laguz under the Leadership of Ike and Kurthnage…again now, the hatred and division between her people has split her into two beings.
Yashune: a Goddess of Love, Unity, Mercy, and Compassion
R’ah: a Goddess of Hatred, Malice, Division, and Scorn Scorn
If the radiant power of love and unity that Ike brought to the world is extinguished, and the rising tides of War Between Beorc and Laguz allowed to take hold once more, Goddess R’ah will surely destroy the world.
You [the RPer] are a beorc-laguz hybrid in hiding; a decedent of Ike, ignorant of your great bloodline.You have been summoned to appear before King Kurthnaga of Goldoa. You do not yet know why.
The time has come for you to learn who you are, and what you must do.
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On Topic: Ike x Titania is gross.
That's practically banging your step-mom. -
On 7/25/2016 at 1:04 PM, Cornguy said:
Personally, I've always disregarded Awakening's implications towards Tellius' plot. I still believe Ike is asexual, at most leaning towards gay.
...see...I was the exact opposite...
And I'm still holding out hope that Priam is a teaser for the series to at some point return to Tellius, which I thought is what was going to happen after Awakening.
Would much, much, much much rather see another Tellius game then a remake, or a completely new world setting like Nohr/Hoshido/Valla.
My take-away after learning everything there was to learn about Priam in awakening was—and this sorta fits with my own head-canon and how I’ve always envisioned—he’s not gay or asexual. But he’s not particularly fond of beorc in general—he sorta has the Fire Emblem equivalent of “White Guilt” over their dark history and the way they’ve treated the Laguz—he doesn’t relate to his people. He’s ashamed of how they behave and what they do. And he’s much more comfortable around Laguz. Beast Laguz in particular; Ike is Gallian and spent his early childhood in Gallia.
…Now at multiple points in Awakening, I felt it was being very strongly implied that Priam was part Laguz. Specifically, that he has the blood of the Beast Tribe.
…And what THAT would of course imply is that at some point, either one of Ike’s descendants or Ike himself mated with one of the catfolk.
So my head-canon is that Priam confirms Ike/Lethe.
And a return to the Tellius games in some future installment will have some very interesting things to say about where “The Branded” stand in modern society, 1,000+ years after the events of Radiant Dawn.
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On 5/11/2017 at 11:53 AM, SavageVolug said:
paladins over swordmasters.
^
This man speaks truth -
Story: on this front, Fates is pretty garbage all-around. But at no point did it do anything as irredeemably silly with Ryoma's character as it did with Xander's at the end of Birthright. Ryoma is super bland though. Xander has more interesting supports. His supports aren't canon to the main story though, and as Ghast has gone over in great detail, the way he behaves in the story completely contradicts the character he's portrayed as in his support dialogue. Xander all around is just a confused mess of a character, burdened with and dragged down by the worst of the bad writing in Fates's confused mess of a story.
WINNER: RYOMA
Character: Ryoma is more useful on player-phase--being able to one-round most units in the game without taking any damage in retaliation due to his combination of raw killing power, and the player-phase evasion buff from duelists blow. Xander is a more useful unit on enemy phase with his tankiness, being phenomenally good at baiting mobs and holding choke points. Xander also does his job in such a way that he will often leave particularly strong enemies alive, but low enough on health that they can be easily picked off by teammates that need the exp. more then he does. Whereas Ryoma just kills them outright. Xander is also more mobile, and gets great utility out of the ability to rescue poorly placed allies with the shelter command. I find its generally more useful for a unit to be good on enemy phase. And above-and-beyond that; Xander contributes more to the team.
WINNER: XANDER
And just purely as a matter of personal preference...I like Xander's design and art better. It feels more Fire Emblem-ish. -
11 minutes ago, Shin said:
All of Bartre's supports are amazing, most of them are people trying to comprehend his antics but it really showcases Bartre without him being reduced to a single gimmick.
The support where Canas attempts to educate Bartre and Bartre tries to eat a book is one of the all time greats.
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21 minutes ago, Harvey said:
No not really. Say'ri can't have supports with anyone but Tiki and Robin.
The idea of Awakening having kids is the main thing about them and a pretty cool concept that can also be ignored since even the first gen units are good enough.
Thats the other problem: the all-our-nothing approach to supports. Everyone supports with everyone in the "main cast,"--the babymakers--which results in an overabundance of unnecessary and poorly written supports that dilute instead of enrich the characters.
...And then you have an auxiliary cast of characters that supports with nobody but the avatar. And that just serves to further the idea that the avatar is the center of the universe and everyone loves him; which is already overdone to the point of irritation.
The Floras, Scarlets, and Shuras...criminally underdeveloped and underused characters deserving at the very least of the same support treatment as a Vaida or a Geitz or an Isadora.
Like I'm sorry...Its absolutely inexcusable that Scarlet can't support with Ryoma in birthright. Or that Flora can't support with Jakob and Felicia, and Shura can't support with Saizo and Azura.
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My first girlfriend I met at work. She was introduced to me by a coworker who thought we had a lot in common, and we just sorta hit it off. I didn't even kiss her till like our 3rd date. Her idea of a wild night was "I'm wearing red underwear right now
"
...That one was too tame...
My second girlfriend I met at a house party in college. We got super duper duper fucked up, and woke up naked in the same bed the next morning. Her idea of a tame night was "Lets not drink half a bottle of Jack and do a bunch of drugs before we break out the cuffs and paddles."
...That one was too wild...
My third girlfriend I met via online dating. That one was jusst right.
And that's the girl I married.
...
...
...
Sssooooooooooo Yeah.
Online dating.
It works. -
On 5/15/2017 at 3:13 AM, Harvey said:
Like?
The fundamental problem with the supports in the newer games is that idea that everyone has to be able to fuck EVERYONE.
This leads to a quantity-over-quality approach where you have maybe 2 or 3 well-written supports on average for each character. Where we learn something about their character or get some world building or an important piece of lore.
… And then there’s just a wall of slice-of-life filler that repeats and reuses the same scenarios and the same character gimmicks over and over and over again.
-Effie is working out. Now she’s hungry
-Felicia dropped something
-Arthur has an unfortunate accident
-Camilla loves Corrin
-Gaius wants candy
-Kellam can’t be seen
-Character A challenges Character B to a “lets see who can do such-and-such better!” contest.
The overuse of tropes and cookie cutter scenarios in filler supports creates the feel that this isn’t a relatable cast of characters you can get emotionally invested it—they’re cartoon characters. Caricatures.
And that in-and-of-itself can ruin an entire story. If you can’t relate to the characters as characters and get emotionally invested in their struggles.
This is particularly egregious in the romantic supports. Most of which essentially boil down to:
C = *cut-and paste trope convo. nothing establishing any kind of romantic capability or attraction*B = *cut-and-paste trope convo. nothing establishing any kind of romantic capability or attraction*
A = *cut-and-paste trope convo. nothing establishing any kind of romantic capability or attraction*
S = “I’m in love with you. Lets get married.”
…Which again makes it feel like we aren’t dealing with a relatable cast of characters with real emotions and real struggles. It ruins emotional investment in the story.
If you are in a random group of 40 people, you should be romantically compatible with like 5 of them. Tops.
Basically the number of supports and romantic pairings Chrom had in Awakening is the upper limit of what a character should have, IMO. And that makes the available choice of relationships feel more real; like you’re actually narrowing down your pool of potential partners to persons you are compatible with, and that compatibility is another dimension of your character.
…look at Gaius’s support with Maribelle. It gives you backstory and lore and Ylissean politics. It fleshes out the characters and builds their depth. With that there’s an established reason why these two characters should be drawn together; a uniqueness to their relationship built up in C/B/A that makes it feel like it could be a real foundation for S.
THAT’S WHAT A SUPPORT CHAIN IS SUPPOSED TO BEIf Felicia was a character in FE7, her supports would have given us some manner of lore and world building on the ice tribe (the way Pegasus knight supports give us lore and world building on Ilia). Her thoughts about basically being a hostage and indentured servant. How she still maintains such a bright attitude.
At the end of it all she’d feel like a person and we’d have some extra lore on the world of Fates.
…we get 10 conversations that start with Felica dropping plates and then go on about how clumsy she is…
…If Renault were a character in Fates, he would be a Fuga or a Shura. He’d have one (1) support with the avatar, that ends in him stroking Corrin’s cock.
…we would never have gotten his mercenary backstory or connection to Nergal’s morphs. (at most we’d get a few tidbits of “I wasn’t always a man of the cloth…I use to be violent.” Between Corrin telling him that he admires his courage and feels his pain)
What FE7 did right was give every character a limited number of, supports. Load those supports with backstory, lore, worldbuilding, and non-repetitive + non-tropy relationships that add depth to characters, rather than making them look like cartoon characters.
Kent had three (3) romantic options: Fiora, Lyn, and Farina. There’s a reason for Kent to be associated with and attracted to each of those characters. The relationships each progress in their own way and feel organic to the characters involved.
Those relationships would not have felt as real and it would have been a demerit to Kent’s character—he’s a chivalrous knight who scolds Sain for being a flagrant skirt chaser—If he could also romantically support with Rebecca. And Serra. And Priscilla. And Ninian. And Florina. And Nino…
Priscilla has three (3) romantic options: Heath, Guy, and Erk. Again…each one developed in its own way. That’s enough. And from that we get a deeper sense of what her character is based on the type of men she’s romantically compatible with.
And she’s able to have support convos with Lucius and Oswin that don’t end in romance but just build character (and it the case of her convo with Oswin more worldbuilding and lore—we learn from him about the fall of house Cornwell, and get more of a sense that the Lycian League is a country with history and politics and current events rather than just pixels where battles take place)
Imagine that! Support chains between male and female characters that are just there to build lore and character—not to force romance!It wouldn’t have made any god-damn sense for the support convos in FE7 to try and force romance into Priscilla/Oswin or Priscilla/Lucius
For fucks sake; Lucius is gay for her brother!
If Priscilla was a character in FE Fates, the game would have tried to force an S-support into her relationships with Oswin and Lucius.
…and it is here worth noting that FE7 does it all with only C/B/A.There are no S supports in Fe7.
But if there were, every character that could S support would have the plausible groundwork for a romantic relationship established by their A support, before hitting S, and the profession of love in the S support would flow naturally therefrom.
I’m ranting. There’s more I want to say, but this is already a very long post. So I’ll wrap it up here, see what kind of response this gets, and further rant accordingly.
The main thing is that the new games have to get back to quality-over-quantity. Everyone doesn’t need to support with everyone. Better to have a smaller number of very well written supports then to cheapen characters with gimmicks and cut-and-paste. -
I think its less important to say growth rates should be pegged to any particular level. And more important to make sure that whatever level you have them at, enemy growth rates and map difficulty scales appropriately.
Like--on paper FE7 supposedly had "balanced" growth rates. But it really didn't. Because the enemy growthrates were so low and the endgame enemies were so janky that the Ravens and the Oswins of the game still turned into walking Gods.
Whereas Conquest on paper has absolutely broken growth rates. But the enemies are so strong--a character with single-digit base stats running around with 20+ strength, defense, and speed by the midgame isn't really "broken."
...just something to keep in mind... -
On 4/25/2017 at 9:01 PM, Slumber said:
the strength of the villains in RD outdo pretty much everything else in the franchise, so Ike managing to one-up THEM makes him pretty damn OP in the grand scheme of the series.
^
This in part. Ike is the strongest hero by feats, because he got the biggest power ups to beat the strongest baddy.
also...end of FE9 Ike is pretty much at the level of most endgame lords in the franchise, in terms of how far hes come and how many armies hes broken with a handful of elite soldiers, and what hes personally achieved as a leader and a fighter. The legend thats built up behind his name.
Then you take everything that happens in FE10, and Ike is on some next-level shit.
To date--no other hero in the series has had AN ENTIRE SECOND GAME to grab more and more power boosts and get more and more broken. After ALREADY BEING ESTABLISHED as one of the strongest fighters on the continent and a dude who can singlehandedly murder entire armies of ordinary men, in an earlier title.
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To this day, I consider Kent/Fiora the gold standard for how to do a romantic support and do it correctly.
And Renault the gold-standard of how to take an otherwise obscure character with not a whole lot of facetime or lore behind him outside his supports, and make him an always-memorable fan favorite by just making all of his supports AMAZING.At some point I'm going to have to go on a rant about why I think FE7 actually did romantic supports better then Awakening and Fates--despite the later games obviously pushing them much more with the focus on hitting S-rank and unlocking future children--and what the new games can learn from what FE7's supports did right.
Because holy shit--FE7 did a lot right that the new games got wrong. -
12 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said:
Again, it's bad.
But people can find appeal in those gimmicks. You need to just accept that.
Thats not even a gimmick; its just bad map design.
Or rather, what you put out when you don't have time to design a map....then the next chapter was just the same map with some debris on it...
...then...
I'm not saying every map has to be an Elincia's Gauntlet puzzle box of endangered green units and strategic choke points...but come on...
I paid money for this game. Build a map.
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4 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said:
The whole turtle movement thing actually appealed to me.
for the life of me I can't understand why, but w/e, to each his own. Even with that though, there's no excuse for shit like:
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2 hours ago, Ertrick36 said:
I don't know if you made any purchases yet, but I'm gonna throw out some recommendations anyway.
First of all, don't get Echoes just 'cuz everyone's all abuzz about it. That happens pretty much all the time with a new game, and soon enough people will find things to gripe about. In fact, people already complain about the map design since its all taken from Gaiden, which has quite a few meme-worthy map designs (there's a map that's literally just a huge field with a few trees, a bridge, and a couple of forts). And I know that I have complaints about one of the new characters. I mean, I'll still get it, but I have a fairly disposable income. I recommend familiarizing yourself with Gaiden, because if you hate that game, you probably won't like Echoes. Also, wait until a bunch of reviews come out, or watch some gameplay of it online.
Fates-wise, I think that as far as quantity of content is concerned, $20 per path is a steal. You get a cast that's roughly the size of Awakening's with either BR or CQ, a campaign of the same length with each, and you'll get a level of difficulty that's at least on-par with Awakening, yet all paths are only about half the cost of Awakening at its original pricing. As for quality of content...
Conquest is generally considered one of the most difficult FE campaigns too, so you don't have to worry about getting bored by easy gameplay. Birthright can also be fun, with its new classes and weapon-types. People say that Birthright has dull characters, but there are a few who are really good and some on this site really like some of those "dull" characters, so I'd say just see for yourself. I personally think that every character has their upsides, even ones like Camilla or Peri, which I put on blast sometimes.
As much as I trash Revelation for its flaws, I can say I don't regret buying it. It might not have the best map design, character balancing (you get a level 10 unpromoted unit in a map swarming with level 1-7 promoted units, and no, he's not an Est), or story, but it's enjoyable enough on the first playthrough, and it lets you combine the might of all the characters (
that anyone cares about) from the other two paths (plus an extra dude that no one really gives a damn enough to use), so it's great for grinding supports or maybe someawfully committedPMUs. I think ultimately, if you like both CQ and BR a lot, you probably will enjoy Revelation as well.I'll say I still find value in Birthright and Revelation that I don't find in Conquest. I'm not necessarily a vet, but I'm also not a newbie; I've beaten the last four games in the series (the DS remakes and the 3DS games), and have at the very least tried every other FE aside from Thracia 776. And as such, I believe there actually is more appeal to FE than its gameplay, in spite of what vets say. The stories aren't anything too special, but they're enjoyable enough. And the support system... the character interactions... That's something that really drew me into FE as opposed to various other strategy games out there.
Not to say CQ doesn't have good characters. It definitely does. But I think I ultimately prefer the Hoshidan royals to the Nohrian royals. Also, a couple of my absolute favorite characters are in BR, so that might make me more biased. To that end, BR inches out CQ by a little bit.
'value in birthright' i can buy, if you enjoy the cast of characters and the lack of difficulty doesn't bother you. The maps are bland, but for the most part they're not terribly designed. A few are are even quite good (i.e. the one where you're fighting Camilla in the undercity. The one where you kill Hans). You compare it to Tellius and Elibe and the sagas that actually did proper world building + narration and dialogue, and the 'story' is still absolutely indefensible. But i get that if you personally like the Hoshidan royals and the retainers and you've got your own head-canon to supplement the main story, its still a fun game.
Revelations is irredeemable at every level.They spend all of fates building up to this Hidden Kingdom arc, where absolutely nothing happens.
The map design is atrocious. You can make your own head-canon and ignore a bad story--you can't ignore bad gameplay.
...A map where you fight rooms of 3 units at a time in psuedo-fog-of-war and try to avoid random paths to nowhere--that have absolutely no penalty for taking them ,accept that they send you back to the empty room you just cleared. kk...nice romhack gimmick...can we play the game now?
...A map where everything is covered in breakable ice, and you just spend the entire time digging out whatever enemies you want to fight on your way to the boss. Literally the least fun i have ever had playing
drillermanfire emblem....A chapter where you get movable terrain to make your own survive-the-rush choke-points, but none of the enemy units rush, so you either waste your time with the gimmick or ignore it entirely and play a very generic pull-and-clear.
...A chapter where you spend the entire time riding around on moving elevators to get from one mob of enemies to the next.
...An lategame chapter where the entire map is literally just one big empty room with enemies in the middle, and treasure chests off to the side. (the gunter one. theres no way that was a finished map.)
Theres no way they play-tested any of this; Its so egregiously bad you can't even brush it of as well maybe it just slipped past beta. There was no beta. They threw it together and rolled it out as-is to meet the release date--either that or they really just didn't give a fuck about anything other then elise's giggles and camilla's big bouncing titties, because thats what sells games now and thats how they're going to make their money.
I have to believe it was resource mismanagement and time-crunch. Because if that shit was intentional and the Revelations we got was the game they actually wanted to put out--Holy Shit--thats bad.
...its almost worth the $17 just to experience how laughably off the rails it went, and why people hate it so much and. But for real. Just watch mangs and ghast LP it, and save your money.
"
Opinions on Fan Fiction
in General
Posted · Edited by Shoblongoo
Ohhhhhhh...Tales of a Hero and a Half Dragon. I remember you. Ike and Soren wind up on Elibe somehow.
The King and the Empress. Comedy and fluff for all you dirty Naesela/Sanaki shippers out there (Guilty).
Fourteen Days. Holy hell--this fic is twelve years old already. This was the one that made me a believer in Erk/Rebecca (don't laugh. it works.)
Yeahhhh. There's some good ones out there. Especially during the GBA era. Maybe I'm biased, but I feel like all the best talent went into writing FE7.