[Just a grumbling female player...]

Booted for reasons.

[Just a grumbling female player...]

Booted for reasons.

[Just a grumbling female player...]

54 minutes ago, Glaceon Mage said:

Wendy and Sophia, the two worst units in FE6 and possibly the entire franchise, are in the game.  I don't think viability in their original game has anything to do with who's added.

He has relevance to Roy's character, and he's a bit of a meme for being bad in Japan apparently.  Those are the main reasons for me to hold onto the hope that he'll get in.   But like, if they're going to pass over new men in favor of girls, I can't help but worry that won't be enough.

The game does reference him, Allen, and Lance at one point (Book 1 Chapter 3-1 where Roy is accompanied by an archer and two cavs), so there's that too I guess.  

Wolt isn't actually that awful if he's buddy-buddy with Roy. I've seen a lot of artwork floating around on PIXIV of people using them as their "A-TEAM" combo (and I don't think it was meant to  be a joke). I've used them together on a couple runs (though I usually use Roy/Lilina because they are absolutely monstrous), and Roy with Wolt actually isn't all that bad. Yeah, it requires a bit of support to make Wolt hardcore, but a lot of the FE6 cast aren't particularly monsters on their own in the first place. I do hope he will get in there! Then Roy can have his bestie~

[Just a grumbling female player...]

41 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Excluding child-generation characters and enemy characters, I can think of a total of, what, 3 male dragons across the entire series that are canonically capable of using their dragon form? Bantu, Nils, and Corrin.

Enemies give a few more choices in Mediuth, Duma, Jahn, and Morva. And perhaps Grima and Anankos, though I haven't finished either of their games, so I have no idea if they count (I'm uncertain if they have a defined sex because as far as I am aware, Grima's body doesn't have a human form, and I know nothing of Anankos). And of those, only Jahn and Morva are not final-boss-class enemies (and Morva is very much undead).

Females have Tiki, Nagi, Fae, Ninian, Myrrh, Tiki, Nowi, and Corrin. Among NPCs, there's also Mila, Naga, and Idenn (from the epilogue).

Valter is ranked at tier S. Michalis and Subaki are S-. I fail to see how this is the short end of the stick. Hell, Narcian is A+.

And yet, female Corrin was pretty much considered to be trash (albeit more salvageable than Odin or Jagen) until Steady Breath was released. Literally the only reason she is good at all is because she has access to refined Lightning Breath+ and Steady Breath.

If there is one thing about the Gamepedia tier list that I cannot agree with more, it's the fact that the lowest occupied tier is labeled "B". Not "D". Not "E".

I think that speaks volumes about the viability of even the bottom-tier characters.

By this list, then, of playable dragons: 7/8 female dragons are already in the game. 0/3 male dragons exist as dragons in the game. And as I mull this over, female Corrin is both a dragon and a flying mage--powerful and/or crazy unique classes. Tiki appears as two dragons and as an infantry axe wielder. Male Corrin appears twice--as a standard infantry unit both times. The argument again isn't necessarily that males aren't included--they're relegated to lower positions than the top tier female cast. And yes, weapon refinery has done wonders for the dragon class--a class that is 100% female at this time and therefore has made them outstanding and near untouchable in highly competitive play.

Also, I am referring to the skill inheritance/arena tier list on Gamepedia due to it representing the most competitive options for characters. Valter is A+, Michalis is A+, Narcian is A (wow I forgot he exists), and Subaki is A-.

Again, I do acknowledge that tier lists are not without error and should be used as very loose guidelines... but I think I've seen this trend for long enough now (at least on the tier list I follow) that it has rubbed me the wrong way.

Not to mention the teams I see in Tier 20 on a regular basis: almost exclusively female, with a random Reinhardt thrown in on occasion because magic is everything.

[Just a grumbling female player...]

27 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

If they're going to have all female banners, the least they could do is make the TT unit male. It would even make financial sense, if (for example) Gerik was on a future banner, he'd be less of a draw than Marisa would if you swapped them around.

This is usually what they do, historically. Males fall in the TT and GHB category, which usually means they are given poor stat distribution and less unique/useful skills compared to their female counterparts on banners. It's not that there aren't male units in the game--it's just that, compared to the females, they're generally not that good.

[Just a grumbling female player...]

8 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

1. Fliers are a predominantly female class due to the pegasus knight class being almost exclusively female (dragon knights are a roughly even split if you only count the starting classes' mounts in the old Akaneia games), and they rank highly due to access to movement type buffs and superior performance with Firesweep weapons.
2. Every dragon in the game is ranked S and currently only contains female characters due to the playable characters in the main games also being almost exclusively female, though less so than pegasus knights.

While I do agree that if you take these classes out, it's less favoring female units--it still is favoring them to a certain degree, but not nearly as much. However, part of the point is that they chose classes and units and characters that are 1. female and 2. that are going to be the best and the brightest rather than giving that place to a worthy male. There aren't as many male fliers for sure in the whole series, but there are still quite a few they could have bothered making worthy--unlike Valter, Michalis and Subaki, who are sub par units (Valter and Michalis because of the GHB treatment, Subaki because he was an early release). So we do have male fliers; they were just given a short stick compared to their female counterparts. I'm not saying they're not useful--they're just LESS useful overall (especially in the current meta).

Dragons are just the same--there are plenty of male dragons they could choose to use but have decided against. M!Corrin is a perfect example--he is an infantry sword user rather than a dragon, and his female counterpart got one of the best classes in the game. There are more female dragons in the series, granted, but we don't have a single male dragon yet. Not to mention that dragons are one of the hottest units in the meta right now...

And please keep in mind as I say this: I love getting my favorite units. I'm thankful for them. However, I also play very competitively--I love the arena, I love the rewards you get in the arena because I get to invest in more characters I love. I love hanging in Tier 20 and getting the best rewards possible--and doing great in Arena Assault, too. But I also really love using units I love to do it, not just units I have to use because they're the best in the game. It's getting harder and harder to do, to be honest, when every banner releases spectacular female units like Myrrh and then a sub par male like Lyon off to the side.

[Just a grumbling female player...]

2 minutes ago, Johann said:

I share this sentiment. I also believe that the games would be overall more popular and acclaimed if they stopped with the fanservice altogether and brought in better writers. These are industry wide problems though, sadly.

@bbqbert I'd totally make Raigh work on a core T20 Arena team if it weren't for precious feathers and orbs.

Honestly, I agree with all such sentiment~

And hooooo boy... Do you honestly think he'd function? Like I've thought about it because I've considered 40+10-ing all of the FE6 units... but he just seems... so... bad. How would you build him to make him function??

[Just a grumbling female player...]

1 minute ago, Lushen said:

To be fair I think there's a difference between having a "cute" unit and having a unit that looks like a prostitute.  I don't think there's a male equivalent of units like Camilla and Loki, but I could be wrong as I haven't really played the newer ones.

I have played the newer ones and there are not. I would say the closest thing we have in this area are in Heroes: summer Marx and summer Frederick--both I think were drawn by hentai yaoi artists? I don't know for sure and not particularly interested, but I know they are constant examples people use that fanservice in Heroes exists for females too. Warriors also blows off armor and has the men in shorts--women are in various types of underwear, including lingerie. So they kinda try...?

But as for straight-up actual characters in a legit Fire Emblem game, I think Odin would be the closest in his weird magic getup.

[Just a grumbling female player...]

1 minute ago, Cute Chao said:

Trust me, I feed back this sort of thing a lot. They're probably sick of my comments by now... but I don't think it'll get anywhere, since I know I'm not in the demographic. That's the sad thing. 

Even worse, several of the guys getting in are just memes now. Oliver, seriously? Arden... yay... Dorcas... Eh, I don't mind the latter two, but I don't see Niime getting in on the other end of that scale. I would love to see her in the game, though, even though I know I wouldn't pull for her. Make her a 3* and I will build her up!

Oh my gosh!! I forgot about Oliver! I blocked him from my memory... Yeah, a lot of dudes that get in are meme dudes--also in support of the demographic, I would assume? I actually liked Niime. I think it would be interesting to see some older female characters in there, too. Really, some nice variety would be fun in general.

1 minute ago, Sproutling said:

I think the Halloween banner is the only one I can think of in recent memory where the male characters were better than the girls.

I was quite surprised with Henry and Jakob being unique versions of armor units, that's for sure. Jakob does remain the only archer armor unit in the game, though Henry now shares with Christmas Tharja as mage armor.

[Just a grumbling female player...]

3 minutes ago, eclipse said:

So, uh, you're. . .kinda doing the same thing, but with the other gender.

And Dorcas is pretty easy on the eyes. ;/

Hahaha, I'm mostly joking. I like pretty units for sure, and I don't mind fanservice. I don't even really dislike that there is so much fanservice in this game because I know that's what gacha are for--I just wish there was more attention given to female players, too. Such as useful male units that aren't sitting at the lowest end of the tier list. Sorry if I'm being confusing?

[Just a grumbling female player...]

1 minute ago, Astellius said:

I skimmed through most of the discussion, but I didn't see if you posted the source for your tierlist? It seems like at least one male unit, Reinhardt, should be in the S+ Tier. But this is beside the point.

Moving onto the main points in your argument. While I appreciate your points, and I'm sympathetic to your concerns, I don't agree that the roster needs to get a 50/50 male-to-female ratio. I don't have the numbers, but I think it's relatively safe to assume that FEH's fanbase is predominantly male. FEH is a game that is designed to earn money, so it plays to its base. I don't think it's fair to expect or ask for more than that. If, for example, the male demographic is providing 70% of the funding for the game, doesn't it make sense to make 70% of the content appeal to that demographic?

Moreover, have you tried providing feedback to them? There's an in-game option to provide feedback, and, if you want more men in the game, why not try providing feedback, and encouraging others to provide feedback as well? This is a popular thread, so I think you'd get a decent response if you sought to encourage people to provide feedback on this matter.

I posted a follow-up comment in response to someone else: the tier list is the arena/skill inheritance list at Gamepedia, currently updated including the latest GHB. Reinhardt sits cheerfully at rank S now.

Also, I don't necessarily think that it needs to be 50/50--it is fairly clear that this game is geared towards a male audience. However, the lack of useful male units is painfully obvious. There are a handful, but most male units are released as mediocre, low tier units that add little value to the game, especially if one plays competitively. Not all male players would hate male units, either--Ike was the most popularly rated character in CYL if you counted both his variations--he would have beat even Lyn. So they are targeting a very specific male audience.

And yes, I have sent plenty of feedback but in my desire not to seem like a whiner, I try to hold back now because I think it seems they aren't listening anyhow. Oh well.

[Just a grumbling female player...]

10 minutes ago, thecrimsonflash said:

As someone who really doesn't like camilla, I always think back on her first appearance in the fates trailer, and how many people were gushing over her before we even knew thing one about her, so I like to cynically say appearance first then they later justified it with "no no she is actually a really deep character with an incredibly interesting backstory", of course this means nothing to me as I have a vendetta against wyvern riders and never used her as a unit, so my only experience with her is through the story, in which she is featured a fairly good deal and I have seen none of this backstory.

This is primarily why I couldn't get behind Camilla from the start. Her opening feature was her boobs waving, and I at least made the assumption her boobs were waving while walking towards the avatar--her sibling--and it was just... cringe-worthy. Yet people were all over it even before the game released. She was popular well before she had a back story--just like Loki.

I definitely don't think every fan is like that--nor do I think that it's wrong to dislike a character's appearance, because DANG I would like some good-looking dudes in the game and not just like Bartre or Arden or Lloyd or Dorcas or... (you get the picture)--but I think a big part of her popularity STARTED there and kept going from there.

[Just a grumbling female player...]

11 minutes ago, Cute Chao said:

I imagine Perceval is popular enough to be pulled for, so wouldn't be 3*... I think. I never remember CYL stuff >.<

...However, if it's just his clothes that explode, he can be as rubbish as he wants and he's getting maxed by me!

Gooooo fanservice! xD 

OK, this I can totally get behind.......... 5* 40+10 exploding clothing Percy on the radar, k thanks IS.

[Just a grumbling female player...]

21 minutes ago, Cute Chao said:

Since my appeal is the character themself, and because competitive play isn't the only type of play, I wouldn't mind if they did that with some characters, because I don't think everyone can be competitive with the sheer amount of characters, especially since they want people to keep pulling so powercreep will happen...

Ofc, there'll still be some Ninos in the bunch that can still be built up, and every unit has some sort of niche, depending on what you want to do with them... just others fill it out better... 

That being said, I'd rather have them in the game as rubbish units than not at all, personally... 

I suppose that's true. A stud Percival is still fun to look at, even if he implodes on contact and can't kill a fly... .......I guess? hahahah

[Just a grumbling female player...]

If they would even expand the lower pool with less popular units that could still be built up, I'd be fine with that. I worked all of my current favs up from 3* or 4*--save brave Roy. So long as they are still somewhat competitive when they get there, I don't mind.

But a 40+10 Raigh just isn't going to be keeping me in tier 20 without 3 other absolutely amazing 40+10 units--not because of general arena score, but simply because he won't kill anything and he'll die immediately. Some units are just not salvageable for the competitive play... and I hope they don't do that to the more obscure male units. Like... "Here, you can have him... He will be utterly useless, but here he is."

[Just a grumbling female player...]

9 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Much as I like Eirika, they really shouldn't have included her on the recent banner. Or released an alt before CYL voting closed, for that matter. Since my favorite FE characters are Tormod and Rath, I've pretty much accepted that the game will probably die before they get added to the game. Heroes is just a game, but a lot of the ... uh, trends that are starting to appear in this game have implications outside of Heroes. And that's what I'm honestly more concerned about. I'm worried that the message developers are getting may end up being "who cares about good characterization and story when sexy waifus sell just by being sexy waifus", because apparently they didn't quite get the memo about main character worship being really annoying from a story perspective in Echoes.

My main concern as well. But I suppose we shall see what direction they take the Switch game. I don't want to be pessimistic, but Warriors was this way (granted developed by a different team) and Heroes is blatantly going more and more in this direction. We shall see, I suppose...

I by no means want less female units. But I look at our roster and see, for example, the hardcore swordsman/swordswoman trope... We have Karel and Navarre representing the males, and both are horrible, awful units, bottom of the barrel. Then we have Ayra and Mia representing the females--two of the best sword units in the game. Equality between their stats and abilities would be phenomenal...

46 minutes ago, Glaceon Mage said:

Honestly, the main reason it worries me is it might hurt Wolt's chances whenever a FE6 banner comes along.  I like the FE6 female cast more than the men overall, and there are female characters from FE6 I want in the game (Thea notably), but I really don't want Wolt to be passed over because he lacks boobs.

On that note, I would still love plenty of female units from FE6. I think FE6 had an amazing cast overall, male and female. We have a handful of great ladies already, but as far as male units go, I think we got the short end of the stick again. We got antagonists, an old guy and a kid (both of whom are two of the worst units in the game), and then Klein who I am eternally thankful for because he's decent AND has a great artist (also crazy rare for male units). Roy is my fav character and also had terrible luck of the draw as one of the worst sword users and was only barely redeemed by his CYL version.

[Just a grumbling female player...]

46 males, 59 females in my 5* slot, and I have upgraded several males from 3* and 4* to 5* AND I generally only pull for my favorite male units by sniping on banners.

[Just a grumbling female player...]

1 minute ago, Cute Chao said:

Yeah, I used to comfort myself with this, in that they'd have to add more males at some point... and then they gave us alt Eirika for the general pool and all hope for less popular characters (as in many, many males) went out the window >.<

I know I'm not in the demographic, but each banner feels like it's more and more disappointing. Someone accused me of being a woman hater when I complained about the female weighted banners when they first came around, but it was pretty much because I saw the game going this way. I'm glad they've not done any more full female seasonals, but I bet they have them lined up. I will honestly be gobsmacked if they ever release a full male banner. The only hope I have now for half of the characters I would like to see coming in are them deciding the 3* pool does need expansion. 

Until then, we'll get them wielding weapons they never should, with alts included (Eirika wielding a tome... well, why not? Faye with the bow when Tobin should have? Ehhh of course. Shigure not being the first flying singer? Who'd want a man in that role, even if a lot of people would have pulled just for the unit? Ha!). 

Yeah... The game's left me a bit bitter of late, and that's without frickin' Loki coming into it. And with her getting really popular in the poll despite limited screen time, along with Camilla's continuing popularity... Yeah, I'm starting to think I can say goodbye to women in trousers in Fire Emblem games... 

Not to mention that a lot of the seasonal units are just rahashes of already-existing units, too. I wouldn't even mind unique seasonal units coming in like they did with Shigure or Charlotte--anything to expand the cast at this point. But that doesn't seem to be the goal, and at least with seasonal, I sort of understand. That is their main money maker--putting super popular units in new clothes to get obsessed fans to pay more.

I just wish that wouldn't also be the direction regular banners go, too. I hope people grumble about Eirika--I did. I like her, absolutely don't get me wrong, but... I would have loved any number of the male mages from SS to fill that role instead. Or any number of other male characters... Why not a flying male like Cormag? Men may not be pegasus knights but there are plenty of males on wyverns. Heroes is very selective about the males they put in and almost always ensure there are females that better fit that role. 

It's so sad, because Fire Emblem has been so awesome about having great males AND females. Because this game has the Fire Emblem label, plays like a Fire Emblem game... I guess my expectations are higher than a standard gacha game.

Yes, I'm awfully concerned about future Fire Emblem games as a result, to be honest... Awakening and Fates set a precedent for dating-sim style games with an emphasis on sexy females, and Heroes is really playing into it. I'm excited but also terribly fearful about the Switch game...

[Just a grumbling female player...]

10 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

OP, I feel like I recognize you from FFN. Are you the same person who wrote a long, Roy-centric story once?

I don't necessarily think that there's something insidious going on here. Well, not really. I think during the initial release the developers had no idea how the meta would go and who would become powerful. Units like Takumi and Hector were super powerful during the earlygame, and Reinhardt continues to be strong up until this day. I think that after a certain point, though, the developers realized that waifus really, really sell though and they really want that money. I do agree with you that the whole waifu and husbando culture is silly. Can't people just like characters anymore without seeing them as potential waifubandos, lol.

Yes!! A loooong time ago! Hahaha, too funny!!

I also don't think it was originally intended to be this way--they included a lot of male lord units that were really great at the game's launch, part of the reason I fell hard and fast for it. But they definitely went where the money was and left some of us behind. I guess a part of me is also surprised because that hasn't always been Nintendo's style either. They used to make what they wanted without concern for money because they're just such a rich business in general--they can get away with it. So they didn't target the most lucrative audience; they just tried to make an enjoyable game. Heroes is taking us in a different direction, and that throws me.

3 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

You did not link to whatever tier list you're taking stats from. It's certainly not a Tier List that we have made, so you couldn't expect us to defend or appropriately debate placements.

Sorry, the tier list on Gamepedia is the one I always pop in and check--that's the one these numbers came from, ARENA style, including skill inheritance. These numbers are taken from today, including the latest banner and GHB.

8 minutes ago, Lushen said:

It doesn't bother me as much as the sexualization of the female characters that have been going on for the last few years.  I'm not sure sexualizing female anime characters is good for society.  I don't mind the whole "waifu" thing because you're idolizing their personalities which are a lot more real than their looks, but I have personal issues when IS throws big boob provocative woman in the forefront of the game, especially when this game is played by a lot of children.  And don't get me started on units like Nowi.  This is why I tend to prefer male characters over female in FEH, especially the newer female characters. Why can't we just have females that act like...actual woman?

Yeah, all of this is very true. I'm all for female units being wicked awesome. That absolutely isn't an issue. But most units are simply just thrown in there for the sake of fanservice. Honestly, when Loki came around, I had to stop playing the game at work because it got too uncomfortable...

4 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

@eclipse Minor nitpick, Sue wasn't the first recruitable mounted archer. Wolf, Sedgar, Castor, all the archers from Gaiden, Warren, Midir, Dimna, and Lester all predate the first female mounted archer, Selphina. Robert also notably joins in the same chapter.

Anyway, yeah, unfortunately there are far more male fans so the numbers just make sense to do that from a revenue perspective. I'm not nearly as much a critic of fanservice as a lot of people, but I do wish they'd add in some more characters. I'd kill for Zeke, Percival, Marcus, etc.

PERCIVAL!! I would give ANYTHING for Percival right about now. He made up a handful of my CYL votes even though it'll never fly. One can dream...

[Just a grumbling female player...]

So I've been lingering in tier 20 in the arena for months now, so I'd say I'm a pretty competitive player and can tell a great unit from a mediocre unit. The tier lists aren't without error, but they do give decent guidelines about what units are phenomenal (ex: all dragons) versus which units are sub par (ex: Odin).

Looking at the current layout, it is INSANE how much priority/special skills/special stats/special attention is given to female units versus male units. I counted quickly, but to give you a general rundown:

S+: 4 female, 0 male

S: 18 female, 11 male

S-: 19 female, 11 male

A+: 30 female, 22 male

A: 20 female, 23 male

A-: 11 female, 22 male

B+: 3 female, 12 male

B: 3 female, 3 male

The number of female units in the highest tiers is almost double that of male units, whereas the number of males at the bottom tiers is over double the number of female units. Do keep in mind that, currently, there are more female units in the game than male units.

And something important to consider is that male units are almost always our TT and GHB rewards—units historically put in to be non-competitive: low stats, non-unique weapons and skills, and impossible to level up beyond 40+3 (until they run again months down the road, if ever).

I pointed this out to a forum once and many people insisted it's because female units are generally given high attack, high speed, and high res--making them better suited to the meta. Whereas male characters are given high attack, high HP, and high defense--making them less suited to the meta. But didn't the high attack, high speed and high res of female units MAKE the meta??? Not to mention the handfuls of female characters given great weapons + 3 unique skills, whereas their male counterparts are RARELY treated so generously...

Furthermore, female characters are generally given unique classes and roles that male characters do not get--mounted archer, flying singer, dragon, flying dragon, flying mage, etc.. MANY of these roles canonically are male roles--Shigure would be the ideal flying singer, Reyson a flying singer, Nils or any FE9/10 dragons, Rath the mounted archer, among many others. Instead, females who do not canonically belong in the role are given it in Heroes while males are pushed to standard infantry roles (Shigure the infantry singer, M!Corrin the infantry sword user, etc.). Let's be perfectly honest: the hot, unique units that everyone fights to pull for are those niche characters that can't be filled by others: Spring Camilla, Halloween Nowi, Myrrh, New Year Azura, Brave Lyn, etc.. Generally all female.

Not only that, but we see many, many banners like the most recent that are all-female or at least a majority of female characters--with a lackluster male character thrown in as a reward for TT or GHB. We've had one or two banners recently that are weighted in favor of males--but we've never had a full male banner (to my knowledge). Whereas we've already had 2 full-female banners to date (that I'm aware of). Said male-weighted banners were often followed by a new female unit that appeared in a random banner on her own (Rhajat, Ayra, etc.). Female-weighted banners were only ever followed by GHB, TT or nothing at all.

I'm not into waifu or husbando culture at all, but I've been playing Fire Emblem since FE6--and there are TONS of characters that I love, particularly males at this point, that are completely irrelevant in Heroes or ignored altogether. And I understand that this is a waifu-culture game. I understand it's a gacha game that just wants to make oodles of dollars off waifu-obsessed folks. But are female players really so nonexistent that they don't even try a little bit?

(And before y'all argue, because I've seen it MANY times before, that they tried to please female players with Bruno, summer Marx, summer Freddy, summer Gaius, Hawkeye and Odin--let's please turn our attention to all of the gorgeous females in this game, the lolis, the number of scantily clad females, and the suggestive ripping of clothes and suggestive poses in MOST of the female injured artwork. Males do not even come close to having remotely the same treatment. Not even exaggerating, the ratio would be roughly 5 suggestive males to 80 suggestive females.)