Earth Worm Jim

The hilarious thing is Rhea actually hates the Agarthans so Edelgard would have had help if she actually sought help. Up until Edelgard tried to raid the tomb, Rhea actually did like Edelgard. Claude also similarly expresses disappointment that Edelgard didn't think to ask for help, and Dimitri's support with Hapi just seems to mock her unwillingness to ask him for help as he offers it to a total stranger when she tells him about what the Slithers have done to innocent people. Edelgard was legitimately in a position where she was surrounded by potential allies but she refused to step out of her comfort. That's just it though, Edelgard doesn't just need emotional support she needs a person who will challenge her to step out of her comfort zone. Who will look at her willingness to sacrifice innocent lives and question whether or not there was a more peaceful method and question her on why she doesn't seek it out. A person who treats her like the flawed teenager that she is. Because Byleth may be emotional support but Byleth doesn't do this for Edelgard. Because Byleth in CF doesn't understand the situation themselves and so doesn't know that they should question her actions. Ferdinand is no good as he puts Edelgard on a pedestal and doesn't even starts to do it when it's far too late. I think that that's the problem that I have with Edelgard is that she's very much a means justify the ends character but in this case they really don't since there were literally mutual means of reaching the end the only thing she would have to do is accept that she can't personally be in control of everything. Which isn't a loss in my book. If one teenage girl stepping out of her comfort zone can make the world a better place with no sacrifices then she will just have to put up with being uncomfortable. If she truly wants to make the world a better place then sacrificing some potential control and comfort should be nothing.

The crazy mole people are a part of the reason why Fodlan wasn't able to reform sooner. Hubert's advice that Edelgard use the Slithers until she depletes their numbers isn't something that Edelgard does in CF, the only route where this is done is actually AM, ironically enough. In other routes she's the one who was used and in CF she doesn't use them at all. In fact, nothing is stopping the Slithers from just nuking Enbar if she gets too uppity. Hubert's plan was risky and just required that Edelgard play with fire. She could have still helped Fodlan without starting a war. The only reason why Edelgard "needed" the Slithers was just because she wanted to conquer Fodlan and didn't think that diplomacy was an option. @Darkmoon6789More like Hubert was lucky that the Slithers just didn't decide to nuke Enbar or use suberfudge to ensure her compliance for some reason. I actually think of CF Byleth is a non-entity in terms of helping Edelgard reign simply because CF is the most ignorant of the 4 Byleths. And what's ti stop Hubert from hiding things from Byleth as well? Unfortunately, Hubert is still using Edelgard's authority to do these things so his actions do reflect on her regardless of whether or not she's aware of them. The actions that he performs in her name reflect on her regardless of whether or not she's aware id them. Ignorance is not an excuse.

Hubert will always be a problem when one is evaluating Edelgard's worth as a leader as no matter what there are always things problems that she never has to evualte because Hubert seems it to be beneath her. It doesn't help that he enables her worst traits. I wouldn't say that Hubert is a rational person or even say that he's right in his assertions if anything he's very irrational and his assertions are very wrong. Edelgard's beliefs that she shouldn't side with the Slithers was actually correct, as the Agarthans were far worse than the church, and were the ones with the actual god complex. Even worse, Rhea was the only one who stood a chance against the Agarthans' nukes, and Rhea, Claude, and Dimitri (as proven his support with Hapi)would have helped her out if she had actually gone to them. Despite projecting himself as pragmatic Hubert is far from such. Especially after Cindered Shadows I can't help but see Hubert's advice to Edelgard as laughably bad. The pragmatic choice would be to get rid of the people who had undermined the emperor's before, the Agarthans aren't just an Empire problem they're a Fodlan problem. Heck there's no guarantee that they won't just oust Edelgard from power even if she does ally with them. It might still be happening. Ferdinand's paralogue was originally meant to be accessible in CF as well, you just weren't allowed to bring along Edelgard and Hubert. And Hanneman still says that Slithers are still doing their experiments are are still the Imperial army. Edelgard just isn't using them in her own personal army and I think that Duke Arundel is still in charge of Hyrm even in CF. History is written by the winners. It doesn't matter how well of a leader Edelgard might think she is or how the Empire portrays her. One man's messiah may be another man's tyrant. Especially in this case when we actually do know she or rather Hubert does deal with dissenters. And that Edelgard might not be privy to that because Hubert tends to go behind her back.

Actually I believe that a lot of belief that Edelgard is a tyrant comes from the fact that she still forcefully took control of the continent and by conquering other countries that had neither the want nor need of her to be their leader and then forced them under subjucation. It ultimately doesn't matter what self righteous reason she did it, she still subjugated the continent. Also some of Hubert's endings are suspect. Edelgard doesn't blame the other family members for the problems since they don't know about the Insurrection of Seven. Edelgard's war crimes basically amount to her allowing the Slithers to do as they pleased with the people of Hyrm. Also Hubert. It was actually revealed in Cindered Shadows, from a book that from the perspective of the Agarthans. It refers to Sothis as a false god, but hilariously enough it's hard not to be understanding of why Sothis felt the need to get rid of the Agarthans after they joyfully recount about how they annihilated 4 other continents.

Actually one of the books in CS reveals that Sothis was the one who destroyed the Agarthans, and why she did it.

You seem to be confusing what the people know from what the player knows. The majority of nobles and commoners who took part in Duscar don't know about why it happened. As far as they knew the Duscanrans killed their king after they extended a hand in friendship. Rhea actually never preached about isolation, she actually didn't believe in it, it's a part of the reason behind why they hated her and wanted her gone. Also they do mention it a few times as one of their gripes with the Central Church. Actually it doesn't. It just says that he was executed.

Except, both Slyvain, Felix and Ingrid, do put their people first. Felix even considered it an insult when his father didn't say that he fought his hardest for the people. And from the way how Slyvain speaks about the territory it's obvious that his own hatred for nobles that shirk their duties to the people, it's clear that it's jsut Fearghus's culture that the nobles care for the people. The Faerghus nobles were only upset that Lonato dragged in the commoners into his campaign. @Darkmoon6789That's actually a good point, we should keep in mind that when Edelgard speaks of nobility, she's only really talking about the Empire. As they're the only group tht she really has a frame of reference for.

Just like how you brought up Duscar in an vain attempt to bolster you're own argument, but sorry I'm not buying it. As it was point out to you from another user, the Kingdom commoners and nobility were both of one mind, just because you wish to ignore it, it doesn't make it any less true. Actually , as far as the Kindom was concerned they weren't allies either. Lambert dying in Duscar and the knights finding evidence of Duscar's involvement when they found Dimitri there was a part of the reason for their beliefs. The Western church preached about isolation and xennophobia, which is why they hated Rhea, but how much of this was Slither influence is unknown. Dimitri imprisons those nobles anyway, so we don't know much about them after that. Actually it doesn't, because the Central Church didn't know about the Western Church being behind the plot to assassinate Rhea. It never mentions who executed Christophe actually. I'm only pointing out that it was likely the Kingdom due to Rhea not making a move against the Western church until they attempt to assassinate her.

Except Personal opinion is a thing, even if people are brought up to defer to the nobility, if their way of life isn't very good, then they likely will be dissatisfied. The Alliance is a great example, the people are brought up to defer to nobility, but they don't personally like or respect them. The Kingdom commoners though actually like their nobility since unlike the other two countries the nobility of the kingdom considers it not just a tradition but a sworn duty to protect and defend the commoners. If the commoners don't have enough to eat then the nobility will do what they can to make it so that they have enough food. In CF the people were willing to turn into crest beasts just to defend their king, that should tell you how loyal they are to their nobiliity, and the nobility considered it an insult that people didn't put the people first.

Except they are, since th argument was about how the kingdom sees the situation. You're ignoring it, because it doesn't help your point. But the commoners weren't innocent of this. You're ignoring it but the commoners of the Kingdom love their kings to a ridiculous degree. That is Faerghus's culture, it wasn't just the nobles it was the commoners as well. Except the point from the start was about how the Kingdom treats it's own people, not about how it treats its enemies. You're trying to include how the Kingdom treats it's enemies into an argument where it's actually irrelevant. Like I said above it wasn't just the nobles who participated in the genocide it was the commoners as well. I'm saying that the Kingdom nobles are better due to the fact that they treat their own people fairly, which is why they inspire loyalty from the commoners, versus the nobles who are cruel to their own people. You're just moving goal posts, but it's not helping your argument, since the Empire nobles still oppress their own people. It was, did you even do Asche's and Catherine's paralogue? Edelgard is actually the worst person to quote here, considering how little she actually knows about the Kingdom.

I think that the tyrant bit comes from her conquering other nations, and forcing them under her rule, and also some of Hubert's endings doesn't paint a pretty picture. It's kind of like how Dimitri criticized her by pointing out that if she truly wanted to fix the empire then she should have done so and not dragged Fodlan into a war by attempting to conquer it. And that she was just being self righteous in thinking that she knew better than anyone else.

Except, the commoners held the same view as well and came to the same conclusion as the nobles, but yeah, yeah sure let's conveniently ignore that fact. Considering how we are talking about the oppression of people within Fodlan and how the Kingdom treats its own people, yes, it is the only thing that counts. Or are you also arguing that that the doesn't deserve to be a sovereign state because of what it did to Mercedes's and Constantine's families, or to Brigid, or heck what Edelgard's mother did to the Kingdom? Or what the Empire allowed to happen to Hyrm. Except the execution of Christophe was done by the Kingdom's nobles, to hide the fact that he tried to murder a foreign dignitary. The fact that they lost their stability is why the Kingdom had to rely on the church. They're the same Edelgard, the Edelgard that you see in all of the routes is the same. What alters your view of her is the fact that you no longer see things from her perspective. The truth is no longer hidden from you. The differences in characterization come from the difference in their circumstances and Byleth's effect on them. For Dimitri Byleth makes him look forward towards the future, For Claude Byleth gives him friendship and the truth that even he denied himself, for Edelgard Byleth makes her open up a little bit. I feel as though if you really like a character then you should like them for who they are, flaws and all. I like Claude and Dimitri but I'm not afraid of admitting that Claude was an arrogant know it all prior to learning the truth who was also way more obtuse than he needed to be. While Dimitri was also an hypocrite who was too afraid to speak out when it was necessary and too afraid of pursuing his own goals. The sad thing about Edelgard, is that she wouldn't stop wanting to achieve her own ends so long as she was alive, Dimitri has a scene where he begs her to stop and she doesn't. And Byleth isn't really equipped in CF to truly help her

Actually, what I said was correct, and the fact you legitimately had to ignore the fact that both the nobles and the commoners alike blamed Duscar for the assassination of their king and the destabilization of their nation, after their king was killed in Duscar with many other high ranking nobles says a lot. You are literally arguing that a nation is oppressive because they stroke back against a foreign entity that they believed wronged them. You aren't arguing about how they treat their own people, you're basing your view on how they treat their enemies. Which is hilariously incorrect.

I never said that it was justified, only that it happened because the Kingdom was lead to believe that Duscar, a foreign country was responsible for the assassination of their king and several high ranking nobles, in addition to the destabilization of their country. They had no way of knowing that Thales was behind it. Also you do realize that the tragedy happened in Duscar right? They didn't blame them for no reason. You're being dishonest again. That isn't her only ending, and if you have to ignore other parts of the game to suit your narrative then there is a problem with your logic. As she still doesn't always step down, contrary to what she says. The church had no more influence over the Kingdom than it had over the Empire. Rhea actually has zero political power in the Kingdom and they at best only used her as a symbol of unification but she kept a hands off approach to the nations. In fact, the reason for Christophe's execution was because the Kingdom found out that he was effectively trying to assassinate a foreign dignitary of an allied Nation. Actually, now that I think about it, the only problem with the Kingdom was the Western Church starting trouble, but then again even that was because of the Slithers infiltrating it. I know, but as far as the Kingdom knew the Duscarans were behind the assassination. The Kingdom had no way of knowing that the Thales was behind everything. And it was the commoners who blamed the Duscar since tragedy happened in Duscar.

You do realize that this happened because they though that Duscar was behind their king's assassination right?