Mjolnir

Ohh, my apologies! I totally missed what you were trying to communicate. My bad. After you pointed it out, yes, I see the 9 damage now. Hm, do we know if this is a bug on all monsters or is this special to that one in that paralogue? I'll be interested to try it myself the next time I fight a monster. This would be very unfortunate if it's widespread, since Poison Strike should be all rights be at its strongest in monster situations. Is it maybe glitching in part because he did break one of the bars? Like would the result have been the same on that bar if he had not broken it? This does need further testing. That said, I would not be surprised if the company that shipped this game with glitched out adjutant mechanics (a pretty big deal) would have also shipped it with something like this and never bothered to fix it. :/ Thanks for bringing it to light!

Wow, what an amazing write up! Thank you for sharing your insights. You've made me rethink perhaps putting shields instead of rings on grapplers. I typically like to keep them light and evasive instead of layering PRT but maybe the shield strat makes sense in some contexts. Also a great tip on the minibow, tbh I've just been overlooking them since my newb days and never revisited them but what you say makes total sense. I can also see your point on the range weapons like hand axe and javelin perhaps not being worth a slot on a physical unit, but I have found that I encounter some instances where I'll get a kill at the edge of a unit's movement with a range whereas I wouldn't be able to if they didn't have one. But I won't say that that's necessarily optimal... You may be right, it may not be; especially since, granted, the situations where they are truly useful are somewhat rare. I guess one other way I use them are to lead with a ranged attack so as not to risk a counter, then clean up with a heavier hitting unit. That way neither takes damage. The rest of what you described is basically exactly what I do (including the forgetting to repair weapons before battle and having to restart frequently because of it 😉 ) "Mini convoys" is a great way to describe the function of mages! I agree with that a lot, and should have added in my OP that I will often keep a spare chest key on them too. Oh and sometimes anti toxins if there will be poison on the map. And in FoW they carry the torches (and some other units might get one as well, but I keep extras on the mages just in case). My Byleth also often end up quite wonky since, yeah, their inventory is the whole of the convoy! Byleth is the only character of mine that sometimes ends up with free slots in their inventory since they can just reach in and get whatever they want at will so there's no need to keep a full inventory. I'm curious as to whether you always run bows on all of your Non-Sniper, non-Grappler physicals. I do this sometimes, but only with units that have a proficiency in bows like Cyril or Petra. Do you think it's worth it to do it for a unit like, say, Ferdinand?

Huh, that's the first I'm hearing of this / noticing it. That's very unfortunate and does bump PS down in terms of helpfulness if true. However, I don't see evidence of that in either video you linked. The first one doesn't even really show Lorenz doing PS (maybe your timestamp is wrong?) and even if it did, like you say the boss' ability could account for the damage reduction. In the second one the guy is joking about "get that 9, get that 9!" (from poison strike) but then Lorenz hits for 17 damage when the enemy only has 15hp left so PS doesn't activate at all. I haven't been able to play for a few days so I'm still at the stage of the game where PS should be doing 9 lol, so I can't speak from recent experience as to whether or not it's glitched (my recall from past playthroughs is that it worked as advertised, but I took a break for a while so those memories are not fresh). I think those two (Mangs and Chaz) are a more famous for being more hilarious than methodical in their FE play, especially Chaz. I think if it were a Mekkah video explaining why Poison Strike is glitched I'd take it at face value, but since I didn't see it happen (because he just destroyed the last health bar w/o poison strike activating) I feel like the jury is still out. 😉 ETA: I did just test it on an enemy with 60 total hp, and Poison Strike did 12 damage. This is in line with my (admittedly not super clear) memories of running Lorenz w/ poison strike in late game; from what I recall it works correctly. Excellent point! It has not been mentioned AFAIK, so thank you for bringing that up. I do think that ally boosts should be taken into consideration. Supports should be a part of optimal play. Agreed, this topic was made by an OP who wanted help with his game it seems, not one who was interested in theory. It doesn't have parameters so it does make it harder to get a good list going. Cool, it would be great if you made the thread! But maybe consider making a general one, with a request for tier lists for all four routes, including an averaged overall tier list would perhaps be more useful just so it's all in one spot. Or maybe it's more useful to make them for each route? Hm.

I'll describe my strategy for this but I'm mostly very curious to see what others do, so don't feel like you need to read before posting your own method! For reference I'm talking about Maddening NG, but feel free to discuss other difficulties if you like. In the early game options are a bit limited and the strategy is bit different than late game. In the early game on my physical attackers I carry: Light, accurate weapon (training/iron) Combat art weapon (steel) Ranged weapon (bow, hand axe, javelin, etc.) Secondary weapon type that I'd want to train the unit in for a later class change (for example, a sword on a unit that will later become a peg knight) Healing item or maybe even two (vulnerary in most cases, concoction if available) Maybe an extra from any category above if available Mages tend to hold less stuff in the early game. On mages: A light, accurate 1 range weapon (usually iron for them, in the wep type they prefer) Maybe a bow if available (in case they run out of magic (only applies to the first few chapters)) The rest is healing items if available Of course, sometimes you don't have enough items to fill all six slots in the early game, but if you do that's what it looks like. Mid game to late game the strategy shifts. After getting at least one ranged healer and 1-2 pinch hit healers (attack mages/the dancer with spells like Heal, Recover, Physic, or Fortify in their arsenal) I find it a waste of an item slot in most instances to carry healing items on physical attackers. This is an average physical attacker loadout: Light, accurate weapon (training + (although I find they drop off mid game), iron+ or silver+) Killer weapon+, Wo Dao+, Cursed Aiyisha Sword+ Combat art weapon (steel+ or often I just use same silver+ as the light weapon for CAs to save space) Ranged option (bow, short spear, short axe, Levin Sword+, Bolt Axe+, etc.) Utility weapon (brave, horse/armorslayers, Rapier, etc.) a weapon of some other type other than the main one as to be able to counter x-breaker skills (usually something like a lance due to many advanced/master classes requiring lance, but ofc a sword or axe on a lance user) A Relic or Sacred Weapon (often not carried at all in non-threatening battles, but usually replaces utility in relatively more difficult battles) On very rare occasions healing items like concoctions / elixirs (only in difficult chapters like VW 13, or in situations where I might want to send a flier off on a solo mission out of physic range) Ring, gem, or in very rare cases a shield (imo most shields are too heavy and are likely to push most units under the "getting doubled" spd threshold in Maddening NG so don't make sense to use) Obviously this will be juggled a bit map to map. Primarily magical loadout: If the unit has a magical combat art (Soulblade, Frozen Lance, etc) then a few weapons to use that art with. Maybe Bolt Axe+ or Levin Sword+, or an attack weapon Relic in rare cases. Magic Staff, Thrysus, Caduceus, Heal Staff depending on the unit, maybe sometimes another accessory like the March Ring in certain circumstances Healing Items. Mages are my heal bags, they're loaded with Vulnerarys, Concoctions and later Elixers. Along with access to the convoy via Byleth, IF on the very very rare occasion that something goes unexpectedly wrong and there's not enough healing power on the board in the form of spells usually any unit has access to trading a weapon in their loadout for a healing item from a Mage if need be. I find trading weps / relics / staffs / etc. too annoying and a buzzkill to consistently do it, even though I acknowledge that it is probably the superior style of play technically speaking. I've never had trouble getting through maps in ways that are satisfying to me without trading, though. But if I were to try a Low Turn Count run, then I would certainly do it because you can get better results if you do. So that is pretty much how I handle my inventory! I am very curious to hear how others manage theirs (again esp. re: Maddening NG but other difficulties are fine to discuss as well). FWIW this post was prompted by a discussion in the Tier List thread, wherein one person basically managed theirs in precisely the same way as mine and another had a totally different strat. I wondered how many different strats are out there and what the dominant one might be, and it was a bit off topic for that thread so I made this one. 🙂

Hm, you do make some good points there. On reflection, I think you are correct and it is probably most efficient to trade them between around as you describe (I've seen that behavior in Low Turn Count videos, although I can never quite be bothered to do it myself!). So in truly optimal play, yes, they are traded between units who need them. However, if they are being traded they're still being used by Lorenz and Lysithea and therefore it does seem like they should factor in their ratings since they do both have easy access to +1 or +2 range in the form of those relics, which both arrive fairly early in the game.

Yeah, I really disagree on the weapon loadout. I use basically the same exact loadout strat as AxelVDP does, so I guess just refer to that post for how I think it ideally works. I would have figured everyone did, but that's probably a discussion for a dedicated topic since it's a bit off topic for a tier list. I may ask though since now I'm curious: one person thinks the way I do it is wrong and another does it pretty much exactly the same as I do. While it is true that horse canto is < flier canto (this is Flier emblem after all), it's still better than lower move + no canto in most situations.Speed is not super important for mages in Maddening NG, as others have explained. Maybe in Hard mode or something you would have a point. Holy Knight is not recommended since most units prefer to attack with Reason rather than Faith, ergo White Tomefaire < Black Tomefaire. He does not require many points at all to pass the dancing test. Around that time, he'll have around 8cha base. His birthday is on 7th of the Red Wolf Moon (11th month) and the dancing contest is the month after that. So that's one free tea time and usually +1cha unless you get unlucky or mess up. So that's 8 + 1 + 5 = 14 already enough to qualify most times, but to be safe 2 more points should be added. Those can come from Golden Apples (which drop very often from DLC yellow aux battles) or from 2 more tea times. 2 activity points in the grand scheme is nothing, especially with the way I tend to play I often end up in mid game with many extras (after gifts become available and Byleth is comfortable in their skill levels). My Byleths tend to end up with S or S+ in their favored skills anyway, so feeding one or two measly action points for the huge long term benefit of having a Dancer with warp and decent cha is very worth it imo. I'm glad I'm not the only one ITT who isn't remotely threatened by the Death Knight. It's a fun challenge, nothing more. Unless you're playing Iron Man, if you are playing anywhere near optimally it's not an issue at all. This is precisely how I manage my inventory! Except ofc add in Relics (which I shuffle in and out depending on how important / difficult the battle will be). It seems super wasteful to keep healing items in a physical attacker's inventory in most instances (with rare exceptions like ch. 13 VW), since a physical attacker healing themselves to me means I've messed up my strat somehow. Usually minimal damage should be incurred, and most maps save very difficult ones only call for one long range healer. If an emergency occurs and a healing item is needed, in most cases ime a mage carrying Elixers, Concoctions, and Vulneraries (and perhaps also anti-toxins if the map has poison) is near enough to go trade for one and heal. I also completely agree re: speed in Maddening, and about the assessment of cavalry vs. infantry and DK being a great class. I basically agree with all of this (well the parts I'd thought a bit about anyway, the analysis re: Hanneman was new to me (why is he so forgettable, him? I think it's part down to when he arrives perhaps?) so thank you for that). One thing I do think should be factored into these discussions are range boosting relics, however. I think that Thyrsus elevates Lysithea from very good to "DELETE". I always give that to her, to me that's "her" relic. However, if he's in play Lorenz gets Caduces since it helps a LOT with his being locked to 2range spells by default. It is very true he wants to rush for Black Magic +1 on top of that, and when that does come in he's even more deadly. I just really think Poison Strike is super useful. One thing I really love it for is feeding kills to new recruits, or those who have fallen a bit behind since you can very easily control the hp in Maddening NG to fall in the 1-9 range for any unit to sweep in and mop up. Being able to get something down that far is still useful generally, imo. I agree that it gets more and more useful as the game goes on and enemy hp totals skyrocket. Also, the higher the hp something has the more likely it will take several units to kill, and the more likely Poison Strike can make the difference between getting that kill in one turn, or face an enemy phase against a powerful high hp enemy.

Did you make a couple of typos and mean to say: "you CAN always make someone an adjutant to a bulky self sustainable unit like Felix or Alois and have them solo the map while the unit HAS the knowledge gem and masters the intermediate class"? It feels like you did from the rest of your post. 😉 So if you are saying that it's very easy to master multiple intermediate classes, I totally agree. I usually don't even need the knowledge gem or an adjutant for magical units since they get class exp from supporting spells which are easier to grind (like healing 1pt of damage or later spamming Ward for no reason). It's almost like an afterthought, really. I always master Bishop and Mage with basically every magical unit on NG Maddening because there's no reason not to since it basically happens on its own ime.

Simple: most of my characters end up mastering more than one class in Maddening NG+ due to the exp nerf being so harsh, and the class exp nerf not. So for instance Marianne is ALSO going to be mastering both Mage and Priest. It's no difference at all, really.

Hanneman has some availability problems which is part of why he's often forgotten I think. He'll also pretty much never double, which is fine if he is one shotting but ime in Maddening NG he doesn't usually. Maybe he should / could with help, but by the time you get him you've already invested in other units that will outshine him without a lot of babying. I guess he's good to have on hand if someone gets RNG screwed. I like Ignatz and think he's another unit that, like Lorenz, often gets crapped on despite having a lot of utility. I'm more meh on Alois but could be convinced! Getting both Poison Strike and Fiendish Blow is trivial on Maddening NG, even more so on Maddneing NG+. Tea time is a thing. It didn't take many to get his charm to 16 (or was it 17?) before taking the dance lesson. He's admittedly RNG blessed in this playthrough but 10% growth from Dancer does help a lot. Every unit of mine that's melee has one ring/gem/shield and a boatload of weapons. They have diverse loadouts since every situation is a bit different. Sometimes you might want more accuracy, so take the iron lace+. Sometimes more power so choose the silver lance. Sometimes range so choose short spear+. Sometimes a gamble on a crit so choose killer lance+. Or you're fighting an armor or calvary unit so reach for rapier or mace+. Can you play through the game, even on maddening ng, with just an iron sword+? Sure, but ime it's better to have a wide array of weapons at your disposal so you rarely if ever feel the need to use a healing item or buffing item. I remember when I first started playing FE decades ago, I would keep healing items on everyone but now I feel like that's just a waste of a slot that could go to a weapon that could put you in a situation where a healing item is unneeded. Right, so this puts Lorenz up a peg: getting into Dark Knight is a PITA for any other mage. This works heavily in his favor in a game where canto is quite broken. Doesn't factoring those in just cancel out? It adds +6 and +5 respectively to both. i didn't include it since it didn't seem necessary, since they should both have both of them (I decided that staying in DB for heartseeker is not ideal, Lorenz does want to quickly go through that back into Warlock then into Dark Knight). Annnete's spell list is, imo, the worst one in the game. Yeah, excalibur is nice but do you really want to get her anywhere near the extremely dangerous fliers in NG Maddening as a Gremory or Warlock? I mean, be my guest but it's dicey and she has issues entering Dark Knight. Otherwise her spells are light and accurate but less damaging. She'll double more in the early game (but that's when you want her as a rallybot), but that drops off towards mid and disappears near end game. Huh, I actually did miss that somehow. Going back to look now. I'm glad it's not just me. 🙂

We're going to have to agree to disagree on the ease of getting Dark Seals. I think it would present a problem on an Iron Man run, but it's not that hard even on NG Maddening imo. We will also have to agree to disagree on Linny's viability as an offensive gambit user. Again, I think the investment is trivial. He's currently my highest lv. character at 31 and has 27cha, on par with Claude who at lv. 30 has 28cha. I think it's very useful to take a unit who would otherwise not be able to get off offensive gambits and make them into one that reliably can instead of taking a unit with already high cha and driving that cha into the sky. There's a point past which added cha is a bit redundant. In Maddening NG chip and maim damage can certainly be useful. Again, even Byleth will do chip or maim sometimes in some circumstances (I just got through ch. 13 and she was chipping and maiming there). Is Byleth useless? I never want to replace an inventory slot with an item if it can be at all helped past very early game. I did put elixers, concoctions etc on most for ch. 13, but that's a special circumstance. If I can avoid toting it around, I will. Pure water is an annoying clutter when you could have a weapon that might be more useful there imo. One other thing that I have totally neglected to bring up about Lorenz is that his personal skill gives +2 damage when he has a battalion equipped, which he always will past the first few chapters. +2damage is nothing to sneeze at, and is part of why he like Lys is often able to one shot enemies. That was a major oversight on my part. So re: Annette he is outdamaging her when comparing their basic spells. Comparing the average Lorenz to the average Anette at level 24 we get Lorenz with 21mag and Annette with 27. The damage forumals are as follows: ((magic + might) + (up to 20% of max hp if you have poison strile)) - resistance 27 + 2 - 6 = 23 (21 + 3 + 9) - 6 = 27 + 2 from Distinguished house = 29 The might of wind is 2, the might of fire is 3. Lorenz is out damaging her by 4pts due to poison strike, but then add in his personal and he's hitting for 6 more damage. Granted, she is perhaps more likely to double due to her spells generally being lower in WT but even that is questionable because Lorenz has decent str growth to make up for his slightly heavier spells. He also has a slightly better speed growth (40 vs. 35). And even mages sometimes have trouble doubling on Maddening NG depending on the mob. He outdamages her due to poison strike and his personal, despite his lower average mag stat, and get gets on horse much easier. He's a better attack mage. She's a far better rallybot.

Oops, lol, I meant Ares. One of those blond dudes on a horse. Whichever! 😉 ...Although I guess Eldigan would fit more with the other two, but he's not a PC.

Haha, yes, this was absolutely ridiculous. One way that I've enjoyed Fire Emblem over the years is by not taking its (almost always at least in part) silly and convoluted storylines very seriously at all. So for me this was an eyeroll, but I also got a genuinely big laugh out of just how incredibly STUPID it was. So personally, I had a lot of fun with the moment. But I can see how people who want a serious story that actually hangs together and makes sense would find this utterly enraging! I will say that from my perspective I found SS to be fun and interesting to some extent, but it certainly could have been better. I think that sadly both of the Black Eagles routes are the worst written and least developed in the game. I don't know why that is, if the team assigned to that part was simply less competent or if the had less time/budget. One other thing with SS in Maddening is that the difficulty curve at endgame was a bit... Unexpected. It was totally doable, but it wasn't a cakewalk like the rest of the maps and took a while. I suppose the rest were so easy in part because one plays versions of them in Verdant Wind. Overall, I wish they had delayed the game further and written BE better AND made more maps but oh well, maybe the sequel will be more polished due to the good reception 3H had overall despite its faults.

They do typically do stuff like that, yes. But they did give us Claude in this game, so in theory it could have been possible that they could have made her class comparable. One other reason to give us three OP lords would have been that 3H is explicitly partially based on Genealogy, which featured Sigurd, Levin and Beowulf [correction] Ares: three very overpowered characters. Granted, none were hybrid. However, there's no reason besides tradition that a mixed class couldn't be very OP. But yeah it's moot at this point since it will never happen in 3H, but maybe in a sequel if they make one. And if they do make a direct sequel it would make sense that the Lords would be even more OP in it. Or their children / parents as the case may be.

Are we talking about Iron Man tiers? Maybe then Dark Seals aren't the best idea, but you can always reset if something goes wrong and you lose a unit. I haven't lost one to him in ages though. Assuming ideal play, Dark Seals aren't that hard to get. Poison strike helps ensure a kill via a second unit if he doesn't just delete (which is a possibility we have to keep in mind). Her 4 base magic isn't that much. Lorenz has Ward and Recover. Ward can be useful in many situations, as can Recover. I realize Annette also has Recover but she lacks ward. Her rallybot utility is nice but falls off after early game. Seems like we're going to have to agree to disagree then since "I think that's false" without supporting evidence isn't much of an argument!

This is very true, which is why it's funny that some are reacting like it's not possible for a mixed magic and armor class to be OP. If IS wanted to, they could give us an Edelgard whose final class was on par with Claude's. I don't see why the implicit assumption should be that the class change would only involve spells. I would assume that it should involve stat boosting in mag and also imo res would be godly. Imagine an armor knight who could actually tank mages too. I agree that mounted Edelgard doesn't feel right, even though a magical great knight class sounds interesting. I think she should get +1mv and additional growth rates in mag and res. That'd be pretty good. Added speed would be nice too. Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it couldn't happen.