Whisky

Wyverns and Dragons are not the same. Dragons in FE are people with equal intelligence to humans. Wyverns seem to be like regular animals. Breathing fire just isn’t something they can do. They do share some similar characteristics in that weapons effective against Dragons are also effective against Wyverns, but that’s about it.

The other Bow class in these games. I suspect the rankings won’t be significantly different than with Snipers, with a few exceptions. There is some overlap between BowKnight and Archer in some games, but other games they are a separate class line, and in some games they’re actually overlapped with Paladins. You guys can do whatever you think makes sense. For me, I’m going to count Astrid’s classes, but not other Paladins, since she actually specializes in Bows. Echoes Same reason as Snipers basically. Bows are good in this game with their really long ranged attacks. Bow Knights are just the final form of the Archer like here. You could argue that their availability brings them down, but it’s not like it’s an investment with an eventual payoff, they’re good before reaching Bow Knight too. Bow Knight is a late game class and is it good in the late game so it’s good. Three Houses Bows are really good in 3H. The biggest thing holding back Bow specific classes is that any class can use Bows, so a Wyvern Lord with Bows is arguably better than a Bow Knight. Bow Knight is still a good class too though with high range, high move, and canto, making it a very versatile class. It also has utility by being able to support with chain attacks from longer range than other classes. People do generally consider Sniper better because of how strong Hunter’s Volley is, but Bow Knight still has some nice advantages of its own and can be particularly good on certain units like Leonie or Bernadetta. Binding Blade Bows are much more useful here than the other GBA games. And being a mounted Bow user is better than being an infantry Bow user. Shin is quite a good unit, at least on HM. Nomadic Troopers not only have high Move and Rescue/Drop utility but can also use Swords as a bonus, which are also better here than in other GBA games. Engage I have found Bows very useful for taking out fliers in this game. I haven’t used Bow Knight yet but higher Move is always a nice thing to have, and I’d say Fogado counts for this. His class is better at using the Radiant Bow than other Bow classes. Although I’ve seen people say he’s better as a Warrior. Bow classes in this game do have to compete with other Bow users like Warriors and whoever is using Lyn or Lucina. Path of Radiance Bows are bad in this game but being mounted is really good. When Cavaliers promote they can choose what new weapon type they gain so Astrid can get Axes. The Bow Cavalier class isn’t too good but becomes good when it promotes. Astrid joins underleveled but has Paragon to level up and promote quicker. Radiant Dawn Being mounted isn’t quite as broken as it was in PoR. I think Bows are a little better but still not great and Bow Paladins promote into Silver Knights and gain Lances instead of getting to choose. Paragon also isn’t restricted to this class anymore so that’s not longer in its favor. Shadow Dragon I think Bows aren’t too bad here but I’ve always seen people recommend making Wolf and Sedgar into Generals and then Heroes and not Horseman. Bows and Lances probably would have been better but Bows and Swords doesn’t seem too useful. Sacred Stones Well Ranger is a lot better than Sniper. Being able to use both Swords and Bows while being mounted. It has less Move than in the other GBA games but hey, more Move is more Move. And Rescue/Drop utility. Another advantage it has over Hero for Gerik is that it has less Con. As a Hero, Gerik has so much Con that he can be hard to Rescue/Drop. However the lack of 1-2 range definitely hurts this class. Swords are also the weakest weapon type. Being able to use high Mt Axes is really nice. Blazing Sword Again, a lot better than Sniper. High Move, Rescue/Drop utility (with particularly high Aid to Rescuing really heavy units), and dual Swords/Bows. Again the problem being no 1-2 range and Swords and Bows being the weakest weapon types.

How much do you guys think 2x effectiveness matters? It depends on the game but let’s look at FE7 for example. Pegasi are some of the easiest enemies in the game to 1RKO. Most units can 1RKO them easily with no effectiveness. The Archers usually can’t 1RKO them at base unless they’re weighed down enough to double and then they can. 3x effectiveness would allow Rebecca and Wil to 1RKO early Pegasi. Most Wyverns shouldn’t be hard for a trained up Bow user to double (and 1RKO) with a Steel Bow due to weighing themselves down with Steel Lances. Against faster Wyverns you have other options if you need to 1RKO them. (Silver/Killer/Brave). 3x effectiveness would make Wyverns easier to kill with more common weapons, especially the ones with lighter weapons, but may not be particularly helpful, especially if you don’t mind using stronger Bows. Also you have units that can 1RKO Wyverns better on enemy phase. Wyvern Lords in Ch27 can be 1RKOed by Louise at base with a Silver Bow, however, later Wyvern Lords have higher bulk and are harder to 1RKO. They’re faster too. Rath could probably do it if he’s high enough level. 3x effectiveness would definitely help Bow users kill late game Wyvern Lords. Though even here, Harken would be better at 1RKOing Wyvern Lords on enemy phase. So 3x effectiveness would definitely help, however, it doesn’t fix the main issues with Archers in FE7. If Rebecca could 1RKO Pegasi at base, would that make her worth using? Not really, no, she’d still be terrible for all the same reasons. It would help to give them a few more niche uses but wouldn’t really improve them much in my opinion. The core problems with them would still be there. You have other units that would still be better against fliers than Archers due to better enemy phase and being able to 1RKO without effective damage. Bows don’t actually deal bonus damage to Mogalls. Just Gargoyles and Draco Zombies. Mogalls are easy to kill anyway though. Innes might have actually been kind of useful on that map for taking down the Deathgoyle though. It’s too bad he’s not available for that map.

I’ll do Nomads / Bow Knights separately even though there’s some overlap depending on the game. You guys can handle that how you think is fair but I think the classes are separate enough in some games to warrant a separate topic for them. This one should be pretty interesting. Archers are known for being a terrible class in a lot of FE games but have seen a lot of variance throughout the series. In some games they’re actually pretty good. Here’s my order: Echoes I might be over them a bit here. I’m not real familiar with Echoes meta but I thought Archers seemed quite good with their long range in this game and I’ve heard that they can be really good with Hunter’s Volley. Three Houses Hunter‘s Volley? I am more familiar with it here and it’s a really powerful tool. Increased Bow range from Archers and Snipers is useful for attacking mages out of counter range and for countering enemy Archers. Bows are really good in 3H but the main thing that might hold back the Archer class line here is that you can use Bows in any class including Wyvern. Hunter’s Volley is still a really powerful delete tool though. Binding Blade There’s a lot of Wyverns in some chapters and Wyvern are dangerous. Wolt and Dorothy are still bad because they have low stats though they have a few small uses but Klein and Igrein are pretty good later on. This is also more of a player phase focused game than most and enemies are generally harder to 1RKO so ranged chip is more useful. Radiant Dawn Shinon is actually good and as a Marksman he gets +1 range which is pretty cool. Engage Bows can be useful for taking out fliers in this game, this is even true in the early game. This could arguably be a little higher up, but Warriors can use Bows too so Archers/Snipers are nothing special. And any class can use strong Bows with either Lyn or Lucina. Shadow Dragon I’ve said before that I’m not familiar with the meta of this game, but I assume Snipers are more useful than the games below here, particularly on harder difficulties. I don’t know if it could be higher or not. Sacred Stones This is mostly an enemy phase focused game and 2 range lock isn’t great, but it does have situational uses. Draco Zombies are weak to all Bows not just the sacred bow, and being able to attack them at range without getting countered is nice. Bows can also be good for taking down Gargoyles and Wyverns though it’s a mostly niche use. Innes also joins early and has good stats for his join time on Erika’s route (he’s quite good in randomizers), though he isn’t nearly as good on Ephraim’s route. Also Gargoyles can be killed without Bows, Gerik and Saleh also join at the same time as Innes and also can 1RKO Gargoyles. It also doesn’t help that in Neimi’s case, Sniper competes with Bow Knight, which is a contest it badly loses. Bows definitely aren’t very good here but I feel that they have a few more niche uses than the games below. Blazing Sword For me this is the first game that comes to mind when I think of Bows being bad in FE7. This is one of the most enemy phase heavy games there is. This game has a tendency to spam you with hordes of enemies, so having a limited enemy phase is just no good. There are some niche uses foe Snipers though. Louise can 1RKO Wyvern Lords the chapter after her joining chapter, which is something most other units can’t do. She can also be pretty good against Luna Druids by killing then without getting countered by using a Brave Bow or Long Bow. Like in SS, these things are not unique to Snipers. Harken can 1RKO Wyvern Lords too. And there aren’t many Lords anyway, the Riders are the common type and are able to be 1RKOed by plenty of units, and on enemy phase. The Brave Bow is the earliest Brave weapon you get but not the only one. And Snipers aren’t the best Bow users anyway with Rath and Geitz being better. And yet this game somehow isn’t on the bottom. Path of Radiance Bows are really bad in this game for similar reasons. This is also the game that is dominated my mounted units with super canto. The only units in the Archer/Sniper line also join under terrible circumstances. Rolf is underleveled, and Shinon joins late, and is also underleveled by that point in the game. I could be wrong but I can’t really think of situational niches for them in this game either which is way it’s on the bottom below FE7. FE7 and PoR also both only have 2x effectiveness instead of x3, but I don’t even think that makes much of a difference since enemies usually aren’t hard to kill with no effectiveness anyway.

Hey that’s pretty cool. Thanks for sharing. I might give this a go once I’m done with my current run.. and the Metroid Prime remaster… and if the new Zelda isn’t out by then… well I might get around to giving it a try at some point lol

That’s a really interesting strategy 😮

Aren’t there a few maps that have chests in opposite directions from the seize point? You did bring him one but said that enemy Thieves loot the chests for you. In the GBA games enemies only drop one item. Do they drop all of the loot in this game? It’s a factor to consider. A Thief that can contribute in combat is better than a Thief that should always avoid combat at all times, assuming their utility is equal. When they have better combat in one game but better utility in another? Well that’s up to you, usually utility would be better but it sounds like their combat is really good in Fates.

Well you will likely know which route you want to go to ahead of time and can only go to one per playthrough. So if you go to Ilia then you can get more use out of Garret. If you go to Sacae then he won’t be as good there. The two routes could theoretically be tiered separately if it makes a big enough difference for some units. Also, I’m just biased against Sacae because I haven’t figured out how to survive there. The Law of Sacae is to have Nomadic Troopers appear around the seize point and kill Roy. It’s the Law. I should really look into better strategies for that route though. But on the subject of Garret. I just don’t think he’s terrible like some people say. He’s not optimal to use, but he’s not bad, and has some genuine strengths and scenarios where he performs pretty well.

But who wants to go to Sacae? Ilia is way easier. You said you don’t like going to Chapter 10-11 B route because it’s harder. That’s going to apply to Sacae way more. Garret is definitely not as useful in Sacae as he is in Ilia, that’s true. But if you go to Ilia then he can be more useful. Not super useful like you’d be hurting if you didn’t use him, but he’s not bad. I think it’s better to be Axe locked in FE6 than it is to be Bow locked in FE7-9.

Also includes Rogues, Whispers, whatever else is appropriate. This one is harder. The role of most classes is primarily combat, which make them easier to compare. The primary role of Thieves is utility. Mostly looting chests and stealing, the usefulness of that depends on the item that you can get, which is a fair way to rate them but it does seem a little strange since it has nothing to do with the units themselves, or the class itself. Also they can still contribute in combat as well. They’re generally not good at if, but it is a factor to consider. You guys can do this one how you want, but I’m going to try to look at all of these variables. Again, the explanation matters more than the order. Let’s see how this goes. Blazing Sword Thieves are really nice to have in this game. I’ve played randomizers where I didn’t get any Thieves and I really missed having them. There are a lot of good items that you can only get with a Thief. I don’t think you can buy Chest Keys in this game? It’s not only chests either. There are multiple promotion items that you can Steal, and the Silver Card. Then there’s Jaffar who is actually really strong in combat. He joins late and is Sword locked, but his stats are good, and his Spd exceptional. Binding Blade Thieves are pretty nice to have here too. There’s a lot of chests in some maps with some good items in some of them. Chest Keys are buyable, but they’re not cheap. There aren’t as many good items available to Steal, but you can make some extra money off of it. You can Steal regardless of Spd on this game but that doesn’t matter a whole lot since Thieves are fast anyway. I’m pretty sure Matthew and Legault can Steal every useful item at base level anyway. Thieves can’t promote in this game, but honestly promoting Matthew or Legault is just a novelty anyway and isn’t useful to do. Astohl can help out in combat somewhat during the Western Isles. Swords are generally better in this game than in most. His combat isn’t as notable as Jaffar’s in my opinion though. Thieves are also useful for their increased fog vision and for finding useful items in the desert. These are both things they can do in FE7 too I forgot to mention. Radiant Dawn Thieves in RD play a very different role than in most games. Sothe acts as this game’s ‘jeigan’ and is really useful for the first half or so of Part 1 and for Part 3. Volke is pretty strong too with solid 1-2 range combat and high Spd, though he joins really late. I don’t remember how useful their utility is here. Path of Radiance I’m not as familiar with them in this game compared to the GBA games. I’m sure there are good items for them to get and I don’t think Keys are buyable here? And they can Steal Staves in this game! Combat wise they’re complete garbage though. Sacred Stones Thieves are not as important to have here. Chest Keys are buyable and a lot of Chest contain basic items. There are still some good items you can get, though you can obtain those without a Thief. There are some Stealable items such as an Energy Ring in Ch7, but I don’t think there’s very many. It’s also unlikely for Colm to be able to Steal the Fili Shield off of Valter because Valter is fast. Rogues can lock open chests without Lockpicks which can save you some money. Fog vision and desert item hunting are always appreciable. Combat wise the only way to get much out of any of them is to promote Joshua into an Assassin. Three Houses They have very little utility in this game. Chest Keys are buyable and are very cheap. I can only think of one item worth stealing in this game. Fog vision would be really nice to have but I’m pretty sure they don’t have it in this game. Fortunately I think their combat is better than in most games, but still not spectacular. Honesty I’d just call it mediocre still. They’re the best Swordfaire class but there are still several other classes that are a lot better in my opinion. Shadow Dragon Marth can open chests in this game so Thieves have less of a distinct role. They are still useful at times don’t get me wrong but not as useful as in other games. They also have less utility features. No Stealing, no fog vision, no desert treasure hunting. And their combat is pretty bad too. - I’m going to continue to refrain from including Engage for now, but I think I’d put in between SS and 3H. They’re purely a combat class in that game with no utility. I haven’t used Yunaka yet but I’ve heard she’s good for the early game and I’ve heard tales of how good Thief+fog is. Zelkov is pretty good but not great. So what do you guys think ? How do you handle a utility class like Thief for these topics?

I don’t know if I’ve just always gotten RNG blessed Diecks, but in my experience Dieck has always been good for the whole game. Rutger is better I don’t deny that, but I do think the gap between an early promoted Dieck and an early promote Rutger is smaller than people think. You don’t need to promote Rutger to have a smooth time in the mid game. Dieck handles Henning and Scott just fine. I’m not saying it’s worth it, but promoting Dieck with the first Hero Crest lets him start raising his Axe rank sooner which can allow him to use higher rank Axes later on. When you promote Rutger with the 2nd Hero Crest, he’ll still be just as good as if he promotes earlier, while Dieck benefits more from the early promotion. Early promoted Dieck isn’t as good as early promoted Rutger, but he is the next best thing and still gets the job done just fine.

Being Axe locked is a bit of an issue in FE6. It’s definitely nice to be able to switch to a different weapon against non-lance enemies. However, I don’t think it matters as much as people think. When I tried Garret out for the first time, I was rather impressed given how bad people often say he is. He has some underwhelming stats like Spd, but he has really high HP and Str, and his Skl is pretty good, as good as Percival’s. That 30% Crit bonus gives him a higher chance of 1RKOing Wyverns than a lot of other units have without a Divine Weapon. He has the bulk to survive several hits and only gets doubled by fast enemies. FE6 gives you more deployment slots than most games. Your units aren’t expected to be soloing groups of enemies, they’re expected to work as a team. You have enough other units to use against non-Lance enemies. Being Axe locked does make him more limited and less useful, but the question is are there enough Lance enemies for him to contribute? I think definitely yes. From Ch13 onward there are quite a lot of Lance enemies (obviously Garret can’t do anything before Ch15, but we’re talking about the class as a whole here, and how good or bad Axes are). The bulk of enemies in Ch13 are Cavaliers and Wyverns. 14 has a variety of other enemies but the most dangerous ones are Wyverns. 14x again has a variety but includes Wyverns. 15 has Cavaliers and Wyvern among other things. 16 doesn’t have much, just some Armor Knights. Assuming we go to Ilia we face a lot of Pegasi and some Wyverns throughout 17-19. 20 and 20x are rare cases of chapters that don’t have Lance enemies. 21 of course has lots of Wyverns and the next most common enemy type are Cavaliers. 22 doesn’t have many Lance enemies, but 2: again has a lot of Wyverns. Garret isn’t great, and being Axe locked does limit a unit’s usefulness. But there are plenty of situations for Axe locked units to contribute. Situations that Axes are good for like Ping pointed out in the other thread. I honestly think Garret is underrated. He’s not great, but he’s not had, certainly not terrible like I’ve seen some people say. He also has some utility outside of combat. Just a little bit but it’s more than most units. He can water walk across the moat in 21x. FE7 does have really strong pre-promote, but I think Sacred Stones units are typically stronger otherwise. Joshua has better stats than Guy on HHM, on lower difficulties Guy’s stats are pretty bad. Garcia has better stats than the Fighters in FE7. Franz has good stats.

Yeah good points, he’s definitely not as good on Ephraim’s route. I think he’s better than Dozla though. Insta-promoted Gerik has 15 Str and 15 Spd. Base Dozla has 16 Str and 9 Spd. Dozla is a bit tankier but Gerik is pretty durable too. Dozla just seems too slow.

Geitz is really good, disregarding his recruitment requirements. He is stronger and faster than Hawkeye making him superior offensively. He’s not as tanky but can still a few hits with his fairly high HP. His base Str and Spd are 19 and 14 which is really good. He can 1RKO about half of the Wyverns on his join chapter with a Hand Axe. I’d say he’s up there with the other great pre-promotes.

Great could be arguable depending on metrics but I thought every one considered him good. If people don't consider him one of the good units, then I'd argue that they should. He's really strong, fast, and tanky, and has 1-2 range. He's basically uncontested as your strongest combat unit other than Seth and maybe Saleh, at least for a while. He can 1RKO enemies by insta-promoting that most of your other units can't reasonably kill with training like Gargoyles and Baels, and is just generally stronger, faster, and tankier thand other units. Insta-promoted Gerik has 15 Str and Spd. He also donesn't lose AS from Steel Axes, so he can have a much higher combination of Atk and AS than your other non-Seth units.

Gerik?

I also have Dieck as a Berserker in a current randomizer run. He is absolutely MASSIVE with 17 Con. I imagine him being a 7 ft tall super muscular dude carrying around a battle axe with one hand. (which the battle sprite supports) That's a pretty cool idea. Too bad FE doesn't have any guns.

I don’t care at all what people decide to include or not include in their own lists, and I didn’t mean anything serious by saying I messed up, just that I wasn’t thinking about Berserkers when I talked about WarMasters during the Warrior topic. There’s no harm in including them in both though. These topics are for fun mostly but also for us to possibly learn some things about these games, which is why the explanation part is really what matters along with whatever discussion we can get out of it. The order isn’t very important nor are the specifics of which classes or games you talk about. There (aren’t) rules about that, people can talk about the classes they want to talk about.

In 3H there aren't separate class lines for them but in most games they are separate class lines. In 3H the class line of Warrior-WarMaster are both more similar to how Berserkers are in most games since they have a Crit bonus and no bonus with Bows. They can use Bows as can any class in that game but get no bonuses with them nor require them for certification. Heroes for example get a skill bonus with Axes and requite a certain level of Axes to certify for. Even though they suck at using Axes the game is still keeping Axes a part of the class somewhat. That's not the case with Warrior but it does get the Crit bonus that's normally associated with Berserkers. I never excluded or separated WarMaster from Warrior. I just listed both Warrior and WarMaster in both the Warrior and Berserker topics. I has Seth as a Berserker in a randomizer. He was unstoppable.

I messed up last time as in 3H, Warriors and WarMasters are actually more like Berserkers rather than Warriors, despite the name. Even if they're called Warriors, they have a Crit bonus and don't use Bows, so they're more like Berserkers. Oh well, I'll include them again here. This is a somewhat uncommon class. There are no Axes in Echoes, and no Berserkers in RD. I haven't played Awakening or Fates. I feel that Berserkers are a pretty consistent class throughout the series. They seem to always be pretty good but not great. I could really switch around the order a bit, but my explanations will matter more than the order any way, so let's get into it. Three Houses - I think Warrior is possibly the worst class in the game, but WarMaster is pretty good. It's a very strong class and can be a good choice for characters that need extra power in order to get kills. If you want mobility, go Wyvern, but if you want raw killing power, go WarMaster. 20% Crit bonus on any weapon and +5 Str with both Axe Faire and Fist Faire makes them very good at killing either with an Axe or by punching things. With Smash and a Killer Axe they can reach 100% Crit rate. It's a good class, but what holds back from being really great is that there are a lot of other ways to kill effectively in other classes too. Sniper and Grappler have Hunter's Volley and Fierce Iron Fist. Certain units have Swift Strikes, Point Blank Volley, or Vengeance. Some units can even be effective at killing enemies without Combat Arts like Edelgard as a Wyvern Lord with Death Blow and Darting Blow. Some of these options can match the killing power of WarMaster while having better mobility and/or utility. Blazing Sword - I feel like the GBA games could go in any order. This is the game that has Hawkeye. Probably the best default Berserker in the series, that I know of. How much of that is from his class though? It's a fairly average class. Just being able to use Axes (mostly Hand Axes) makes it decent enough. Like I said, pretty good but not great. There are plenty of worse classes in this game but also plenty of better ones. Binding Blade - Like Swordmasters, Berserkers get a 30% Crit bonus in this game instead of 15% like the other GBA games. That's a nice bonus to have and makes Berserkers a lot better at killing things than they would be otherwise, which is nice because enemies are are harder to kill in this game so the Crits can really be helpful. I think Garret is underrated. He's no Hawkeye but he's not bad. The class itself is again pretty average I think. Being Axe locked is somewhat of an issue in this game compared to the others but Axes have situations they are good for. There are plenty of Lance enemies in the game. Sacred Stones - This class is again pretty average I feel. I forgot to mention before that Berserkers have some small utility in the GBA games with water walking. This can come in handy on a few occasions in all of these games including this one. Again just being able to use Axes makes the class decent. It's probably Ross' best class. Dozla isn't great, I think he's the worst of the starting Berserkers. Path of Radiance - Largo is the only Berserker in this game. He joins late but his stats aren't bad. Axes are the best weapon type in this game but being an infantry unit uint this game really holds him back. I said Berserker is a pretty class in most games but it's hard to call any infantry class good in PoR.

I don't understand what you mean here. Wyverns are the most dangerous enemies in that game. Anything that helps taking them down is useful. That's basically why Klein is good. I think Bow access in FE6 is much more useful than in FE7. I also don't think most Wyvern do weigh themselves down. Only the ones that use Steel Lances, but they're still not easy to kill. I think deploying and training both Eliwood and Lyn make the game more harder on yourself than the two chapters of going Bartre's route. Those two chapters aren't that bad. If we're factoring in recruitment costs then I don't see how Geitz is winning this. If we ignore recruitment costs and just look at how good the unit in question is, then Geitz is really good.

So do Dorcas and Bartre get Fighter bases plus the promotion bonuses, and does Geitz get the listed Warrior bases since he starts in that class? So Dorcas’ Warrior is different from Geitz’s Warrior? I think randomizers are the only way any of this has any relevance, but I am curious about it.

Bartre isn’t a monster like Geitz but he does have some appealing qualities, and his opportunity costs aren’t nearly as high as Geitz. Bartre is pretty bulky and has high Str. He can deal massive damage to Wyverns with a Steel Bow and even one shot a few of them at base. He is arguably the best user of Armads since he starts at A rank Axes and Lott/Wade have the too much opportunity cost to be worth promoting. (Geese and Gonzales too). As for how how good the Warrior class itself is for them. Bartre would lose some useful things in other classes. Having an accurate ranged option is nice especially when it gets 3x Mt against Wyverns. Obviously there would be advantages for him to be a Paladin but there would also be disadvantages. I think classes in general are more balanced in FE6 than in most FEs. Geitz would undoubtedly be much better as a mounted class or probably a magic class. Warrior isn’t too bad for him though. The high Str lets him 1RKO Wyverns with a Hand Axe which is a very impressive feat, and something he’d have a harder time doing in most other classes. Hero would probably just result in overkill Spd making it worse overall. So Warrior might be somewhere around the middle for both units? But Geitz is one of the only units with high enough stats to pull that off. Warrior is a bad class for Dorcas and Bartre because they’re slow and would really benefit from more Spd. But, I’m confused about something. SerenesForest says that Warrior’s have a higher base Spd than Fighters in FE7, but Fighters don’t gain any Spd when the promote, so how does that work?

That’s a fair point. Actually I think both Warrior and WatMaster in 3H are more like Berserkers from previous games. Despite being called ‘Warrior’ since in this game they have a 10% Crit bonus (with Axes) and don’t have any bonus with Bows. WarMaster is a an upgrade to Warrior aside from being gender locked, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t a direct upgrade, it just means that females don’t get the upgrade.

Let’s move on to Axe users then. I’m going to include Warrior and WarMaster in 3H for this. There isn’t a distinction between Warrior and Berserker in that game so I’m going to count WarMaster for both topics. I’m only listing games that I’ve played and not including Shadow Dragon because I don’t feel familiar enough with it. There are no Axes in Echoes. I’m not going to talk about Engage yet because it’s still pretty new and I’m still forming my opinions on it. Three Houses Well how about that, 3H is on top instead of bottom for a change… I’m talking about WarMaster, not Warrior. WarMaster is the upgrade to Warrior in this game so it makes sense to include it. WarMaster is a very strong class with +5 Str and +20 Crit. It also has 6 Mov unlike some infantry classes. If you want mobility you pick Wyvern but if you want power you go with WarMaster. For raw killing power it competes with Sniper and Grappler and certain characters can kill effectively without any of that, so it’s not amazing, but it is still very strong. It can reach over 100% Crit with Smash. It’s also arguably better with Swords than the sword classes with its high Str and Crit bonus, and has possibly the best enemy phase combat in the game. Radiant Dawn I’m not sure, I haven’t really used either Boyd or Nolan much but this seems like a good spot for this game. Cavalry were somewhat nerfed in this fame with ledges and Boyd is decently strong and Nolan is pretty useful for the Dawn Brigade. Path of Radiance On the one hand, Boyd becomes really strong in this game and eventually doubles enemies effectively too, and at 1-2 range. He has good combat and Con being based on Str sort of makes him faster than he seems. On the other hand this is the game that gives mounted units super Canto and there are a lot of really good mounted units that can easily dominate the battlefield with Boyd not being able to keep up. Binding Blade This is a tough call, but I honestly think the class is better here than in the other GBA games, at least in a vacuum. The units in the class might be a different story, but it’s not like the Fighters are great units in the other GBA games either. Being able to use Bows as a Warrior is much more useful here than in the other GBA games. There is more competition for Heroes Crests in this game though. That’s definitely a fair and solid reason for putting this game lower, but Bartre is still pretty good. Sacred Stones Garcia is pretty useful early on. He has solid base stats and can double some of the very slow enemies in this game despite his low Spd. There are also ways to mitigate his low Spd issue with there being a few Speedwings in this game, along with him making good use of the Brave Axe and Garm. He can also straight up 1HKO frail enemies. He has 1-2 range and solid bulk. The class itself is not good though and Garcia does have Spd issues in part due to the class. Garcia definitely wants to promote to Hero over Warrior for the Spd increase which doesn’t help Warrior’s case. Blazing Sword The class itself is about the same as in Sacred Stones. Dorcas and Bartre are both really slow, more so than Garcia. I don’t have much to add. I just think Sacred Stones is more balanced and there’s a higher opportunity cost to using these two. Geitz is really good, but has his own issues with needing to train both Eliwood and Lyn to get him. I also think that’s just Geitz being really good in general and not much to do with his class. Three Houses …well, it’s sort of on top but also still at the bottom. WarMaster is good, but Warrior is one of the worst classes in 3H, with probably only Hero being worse. 5 move infantry class with poor stats and nothing special about it? Yeah, it’s terrible. It seems strange to list 3H twice but there’s such a big difference in quality between WarMaster and Warrior and I wanted to talk about how terrible Warrior is. - I can see the GBA games being in pretty much any order depending on the reasoning. I’m not sure about the Tellius games placement either, with POR being dominated by mounted units I don’t know if it should be above all the GBA games.