[The fandom treats Flayn as a joke and it's harming her image]

12 minutes ago, Axie said:

i don't even go here but someone here needs a therapist

How is this allowed?

[The fandom treats Flayn as a joke and it's harming her image]

21 minutes ago, Anathaco said:

Now, would this change if it was Byleth, as opposed to someone like Claude? Of course. Seteth trusts Byleth more. But I doubt that means he'd immediately be on board with it, with no reservations whatsoever. So its not unreasonable to wonder that.

Counterpoint: Seteth literally tells Byleth he views him/her as family. That compounded with his A Support dialog, which is needed to get this scene, leaves very little room to doubt the level of trust and security Seteth places in Byleth. Yes, even regarding Flayn.

15 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Oh, I could tell you.  But if you're so upset by memes, of all things. . .then it would be horribly irresponsible of me to say anything else.  You'll just have to take my word that silly memes are the extremely mild end of "worst things that can happen to a character".

Unfortunately I'm already well aware. I've seen people share monstrous opinions about Flayn and what they wish would happen to her. Memes most certainly are not the worst ways people have expressed themselves over her, but that also doesn't mean there's no merit in discussing the impact they have.

[The fandom treats Flayn as a joke and it's harming her image]

Before you decide to shut down the discussion, could anyone at least address my point that people believing memes to be fact is, at worst, mildly problematic? That was the crux of my post, and it seems to have gone ignored.

[The fandom treats Flayn as a joke and it's harming her image]

13 minutes ago, RainbowMoon said:

You expect us to believe that the entire internet's worth of Flayn art is all because of you? Nobody could possibly make such a definitive claim. So you're either straight up lying or wildly exaggerating.

No, I specifically said Flayn x Byleth. I assumed that's what you referred to when you mentioned shipping art.

[The fandom treats Flayn as a joke and it's harming her image]

29 minutes ago, lenticular said:

Even if all this is true... so what? How is it harming or negatively impacting you or anyone else? None of this has any bearing on your ability to play the game and enjoy Flayn's support conversations, nor on your ability to commision fanart, read fanfiction, or anything else. Maybe, at a push, jokes about her might slightly decrease the number of fanworks or online discussions about her, but really, if someone cares so little about the character that they see her purely as a joke, were they going to be creating high quality fanworks to begin with? I'm not seeing what your actual problem here is.

I don't think I'm asking too much by wishing there were other people who shared my love of Flayn; who I could discuss her with and share the things I've gotten of her and appreciate them on the same level. People like to bring up how there are other unpopular/hated 3H girls, but they all still have people who love them. They all have people who draw them in wedding dresses and kissing Byleth, and people who are happy to share such pics while saying how beautiful the art is.

My problem is that I am alone in viewing Flayn this way. And while jokes may not prevent a person who would have loved Flayn otherwise from doing so, seeing people continually misrepresent or trivialize her doesn't do anything to help my fandom isolation.

[The fandom treats Flayn as a joke and it's harming her image]

35 minutes ago, RainbowMoon said:

In all fairness, part of that is because Seteth and Flayn are so frequently thought of as a "pair" of characters that most people immediately think of them both rather than one or the other. You see the same exact thing happen with Seteth. You'd think Flayn's the only person he ever talks or cares about the way people joke about him. That's just a common side effect when you have two characters who are almost always seen or mentioned together.

You say that, but at the same time there are countless pieces of Seteth fanart (including shipping fanart) where no one feels compelled to mention Flayn once. No one is going to mention what Flayn will think if you say you love Seteth or post shipping art with him. It's not the two-way issue you claim it is, and that is experience speaking.

35 minutes ago, RainbowMoon said:

Do a Google image search on Flayn. Unless you drew all that fanart and shipping art and stuff I could've gone without seeing, this simply isn't true.

Actually yes, I am responsible for the majority of Flayn x Byleth art, not drawn but commissioned. So with that you'd have to conclude her "legion of fans" is really just me alone. If not for me, almost none of it would exist.

35 minutes ago, RainbowMoon said:

We all have our favorite characters, yes. But you're choosing to single out Flayn as some sort of protected class that nobody should ever be allowed to joke about. All while pretty much turning a blind eye to other characters who get treated exactly the same way. You're Flayn-stanning, basically.

I never said that people shouldn't ever joke about Flayn. Just that it's a problem when jokes are starting to override truths about her character and the story of the game itself.

35 minutes ago, RainbowMoon said:

And this is where I stop taking your topic seriously.

Someone makes a flippant comment and I give a flippant reply, but clearly I'm the one in the wrong. Okay.

[The fandom treats Flayn as a joke and it's harming her image]

7 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said:

I hate Micaiah and have absolutely no respect for her whatsoever.

Does your hatred of Micaiah have to do with her personality or the decisions she makes in the story?

8 minutes ago, NinjaMonkey said:

All in all, I think you're way too serious about this. If Flayn were a real person, then fine, but she's nothing but a collection of pixels and polgons.  The way you come across is as though you're "defending your waifu", and as a result I can't take you seriously.

You act like I'm the only person in this fanbase who loves and is genuinely passionate about a character (and you know that's not the case).

10 minutes ago, Armchair General said:

This is why we can't have fun, anymore...

From the sound of that you seem like the exact type of person this pertains to. Why treat characters with seriousness and consideration when they can all be le funny maymays?

[The fandom treats Flayn as a joke and it's harming her image]

2 hours ago, Sooks said:

I’d say I don’t think it’s in anything but good faith. Of course I can’t talk about every example, but I wouldn’t say that joking about a character or the source material is inherently disrespecting either. I think it depends on how seriously they mean it, but I’ve never seen anyone use a Seteth being overprotective of Flayn meme as if it was actually what would happen and not exaggerated to a comedic degree, and obviously so. 

Well I just gave you an example of how widespread and overused this joke is that people are now seemingly unaware that it even is a joke. No matter what one individual's intent might be, this is unquestionably harmful to Flayn's perception.

25 minutes ago, RainbowMoon said:

Yeah, unfortunately that's true of a lot of characters (Leonie, Ingrid, Marianne and even Dimitri to name a few). Certain parts of the fanbase like to treat their personality quirks or something they did once like it's their entire character. You hear people all the time saying stuff like "Leonie can't go five seconds without randomly bringing up Jeralt" or "Dimitri regularly murders children." Flayn's far from alone in that regard. The one that really gets under my skin is the treatment of Dorothea. I've seen a lot of fans talk about her like she's some kind of gold digging sex addict who slept her way into the monastery just to screw a bunch of rich guys (forgetting that she's into women too) and walk away with their money. Some people even change her backstory of being an opera singer to being a stripper or prostitute. But anyone who's actually played 3H and watched Dorothea's supports knows that, aside from her habit of flirting with people, she's not like that at all. The important thing is to remember that the people who make those comments aren't the entire fanbase, or even the majority in most cases. There's always gonna be a fringe that hates on a character or turns them into a walking punchline for no reason. But I'm sure that if you seriously asked someone their opinion of Flayn (or Dorothea, or Leonie, etc.), you wouldn't just get a lame joke answer. Yeah, I think there are a few memes that really shouldn't exist, but I don't think any of them actually go so far as to completely ruin a character's image.

At least with those characters you can say those quirks are theirs. The Angry Seteth meme is just that, a Seteth meme, reflecting what I said about how Flayn is viewed not as her own character but an extension of him. At least with the fish thing you can say that's an exaggeration of Flayn's quirk.

Also, I've never seen anyone mock or make derogatory memes about Marianne. You'll never see the majority of comments on her fanart be overtaken by memes.

EDIT: Also worth mentioning is, with all of those characters' detractors who do nothing but meme them, they also have legions of people who love and respect them outside of any jokes or memes. Flayn cannot claim the same luxury.

[The fandom treats Flayn as a joke and it's harming her image]

This is an issue I need to address that no one else ever seems to mention, but I suspect you're all probably all aware of on a subconscious level. Flayn is not respected or taken seriously as a character by the vast majority of the FE fanbase, and whenever anyone brings her up it's almost always in the context of a joke: either how she's "obsessed with fish" or how expressing any sort of fondness for her will enrage Seteth. I get that these jokes were born out of actual (though heavily exaggerated) elements in the game, but it's come to a point where jokes have begun to replace actual facts. For example, I recently shared the following fanart I had commissioned:

(source)

And to my surprise and frustration, the most popular reaction was asking if Seteth would really be okay with Flayn and Byleth's marriage. Anyone who's played the game and actually knows these characters should not be asking this, but the fact is that the "Angry Seteth" meme has become so ubiquitous that a worryingly high amount of people have assumed it to be reality (this pic was commissioned specifically to challenge that assumption). I've been told that I "worry too much about memes" or "take them too seriously", but this sort of misinformation is what happens when people don't challenge this "it's all a joke, nothing matters" mindset.(And this doesn't just apply to Fire Emblem or even gaming, but that's too broad a topic for here).

And of course this isn't the only example, but I point to it as a particularly egregious case. There have also been times where people have doubted the the validity of Flayn's official character information because it doesn't mention "fish obsession". As a whole, there are just many, many instances where these memes are brought up on Flayn posts meant to be meaningful or serious, and the result is that Flayn is far less respected than most characters, even those who are hated by a lot of the fanbase (because hating characters requires a degree of respect for them, as you still have to acknowledge that they are important and that their actions mattered enough to be hated).

And yes, I'm sure people will bring up handfuls of other characters who have some recurring meme attached to them, but it still doesn't reach the amount of irreverence Flayn receives in comparison. Flayn is the only character whose autonomy people don't respect; I've even heard it said that Flayn isn't herself a character and is just a Seteth plot device. This couldn't be more wrong: Flayn is a beautiful, wonderful character in her own right and deserves to be viewed and treated as such. Not just an eternal punchline.

If you've read this far, thanks. I've brought up this discussion here as this is one of the more reasonable pockets of the FE fandom from what I've observed, so I trust you'll be willing to lend my points some degree of validity instead of saying I'm trying to "kill fun" or "thinking too much".

[I maxed Flayn's level and all of her stats and ranks because I love her]

1 hour ago, GaryGaryGary said:

What about Crit Flayn? A Flayn that can Crit almost every time she attacks? That sounds like an awesome challenge!

So something like this? 😉

Honestly I think having Wrath AND Defiant Crit on her is overdoing it a bit, lol. They do synergize well with the CAS, but it's a very risky strategy. The drop in attack doesn't matter too much when every attack is a crit either.

Here's a vid of her clearing out a room, critting every attack. Hilariously she keeps critting even after her sword breaks.🤣 (Sorry for the choppiness, I stitched it together with Switch video clips)

 

[I maxed Flayn's level and all of her stats and ranks because I love her]

1 hour ago, drattakbowser said:

Azure Moon is too easy. Try Silver Snow or Verdant Wind.

Oh it's definitely not as easy when you have to cart around Dimitri's useless Level 4 husk on most maps. Anyway I already did a SS Flayn solo, the (much less impressive) results shown here:

 

Spoiler

Also, some other Flayn builds I've been toying with:

Dodge Tank Flayn:

Spoiler

Enemies will have a hard enough time landing a hit as is, but when Alert Stance+ activates, RIP.

Iron Wall Flayn:

Spoiler

I bet you've never imagined this tanky a Flayn build! Considering the strongest physical attack on this map is 74 (and there's no way anyone's putting a dent in her magically), and with Pavise and Renewal, she'll be taking pitiable damage. She's a slow but unstoppable juggernaut! Edit: Swapped Renewal for Axefaire due to Bolt Axe annoyingly being 1 HP away from one-shotting some enemies.

Almost-Infinite Range Flayn:

Spoiler

This setup requires more careful play due to the increased frailty and limited uses of magic compared to enemy count (hence the Bolt Axes), but it's notable for being able to attack from a max of 17 spaces away! (Then again any Valkyrie can do that with +5 mov. Imagine Stride on top of that... 😵)

If you guys have suggestions for other fun or crazy ideas I can try out with her I wanna hear them!

[I maxed Flayn's level and all of her stats and ranks because I love her]

19 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Ah I was wondering about the levelling. While I know 99 is the level cap for this game, I assumed that at some point enemies just stop giving exp when you outstrip them so much due to the exp curve (someone inform me if that's correct). Support magic wouldn't have that issue though.

Oh undoubtedly. I think about level 50-55 in Maddening is when units hit a wall in terms of exp from enemy kills. Flayn would only get 1 in the 80-90 level range (WITH the EXP Gem). If I used up all her magic with the EXP Gem and next to Byleth I was able to reliably get at least one level every map, up until the 90s. Fun fact, the final level required something along the lines of 30,000 EXP. I very much doubt the feasibility of capping for physical units/those with bad magic.

[I maxed Flayn's level and all of her stats and ranks because I love her]

36 minutes ago, Flying Shogi said:

How are people maxing out their units' stats? I thought there's only a certain number of times we can fight in skirmishes until the plot advances.

Well I explained how I reached level 99 in the post above, but that still didn't cap out her stats at the end. I was 1 off from res and 8 off from luck. Those were easy to patch up with stat boosters gained in later chapters though (she hit level 99 at Chapter 17 IIRC).

[I maxed Flayn's level and all of her stats and ranks because I love her]

13 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

"This is the ideal cleric body. You may not like it, but this is what peak healing looks like."

Congratulations, I guess.

Also, if you replace the middle three skills with equippable Fistfaire, Fiendish Blow, and Magic +2, she'll do 13 extra damage per hit. If that's something you were interested in.

Hmm, true, but AM endgame is almost exclusively ranged enemies, and I don't want her relying on gauntlets too heavily (Byleth has the COB for my Vantage/Wrath WM setup). I'm still not settled on the skills, but playing the chapter a couple times now I've swapped out BM prowess for Renewal so I don't have to take a turn to healing focus when she takes too much damage (also why I have Caduceus Staff on her over Thyrsys. That and she has to have it, she's Flayn 💚). Also switched out BM Range +1 for Axe Prowess since the Bolt Axe is way more useful for range killing than the small amount of magic she gets as a War Cleric.

Speaking of gauntlets, I forgot about the monsters on the final chapter and didn't get and Dragon Claws to kill them, and don't have enough ore to craft them. Rather than putting any other physical weapon on Flayn I just avoid them mostly 😩

[I maxed Flayn's level and all of her stats and ranks because I love her]

1 hour ago, Sooks said:

WHAT WHAT WHAT?

Started it Saturday actually, got the dates mixed up🤣

1 hour ago, Sooks said:

Really? In my experience her base has been terrible, always.

Her bases don't matter when you've got tons of stat boosters to load her up with on recruit and a maxed battalion to slap onto her, which of course was in my case. But I say she's easy to grind because of the support magic she has access to. Fortify gives massive EXP, and Rescue and Restore give a fair amount, more than heal. The best maps for expending all their uses is anything with beasts, since they have infinite, status-inflicting attacks. You let them repeatedly attack and rattle Byleth and create a cycle of Heal/Restoring until your magic runs out. This is especially good to do in the bishop or gremory class, obviously.

[I maxed Flayn's level and all of her stats and ranks because I love her]

45 minutes ago, Sooks said:

That... sounds like a lot of grinding. At least it’s all over now.

Congratulations! Hopefully your extreme boredom won’t return... for your own sanity. xD

Yep, it's all over. Kinda sad about it actually... maybe I'll do another Flayn solo of Verdant Wind lol (already did one of Silver Snow too before you ask).

19 minutes ago, L3xandr3 said:

The actual hell? No offense intended, but don't you anything better to do? Or do you like Flayn that much? This must have taken a terribly long time.

Bruh, I think no one has anything better to do right now with global lockdown and all. Also believe it or not, I only started this run this past Friday. I think Flayn is actually easier to grind than most units. And trust me, nobody likes Flayn more than me.

16 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

From what I understand simping is when you spend hundreds of dollars to prove your love and dedication to a girl? Then yeah, I'd say it fits haha.

[I maxed Flayn's level and all of her stats and ranks because I love her]

And also I was bored

but more because I love her ❤️

[Why is Flayn x Byleth such an underrepresented/contested pairing?]

Looking back on my opening post and the replies I've gotten I will admit my tone was overly and unnecessarily defensive, especially for this community. In all honesty this was a post I had initially written up for Reddit and posted there simultaneously, and I wasn't aware if there was an overlap of users or opinion here. I'm not trying to push for people to have to like Flayn x Byleth, and my apologies if I came off as aggressive.

[Why is Flayn x Byleth such an underrepresented/contested pairing?]

20 minutes ago, eclipse said:

And YOU can start by not projecting your insecurities all over the other posters.  If you're going to assume that you'll be attacked for expressing this opinion, then I suggest taking a good, long look at who you are and what you value, because getting this worked up over a video game opinion is worrying.

Unfortunately I don't have to assume; I and others have been attacked on places like Reddit and YouTube for expressing fondness for Flayn. Also, my having an opinion and wanting it respected is "worrying"? There is no need to make this about me as a person, so also ask you to not project things onto me either.

[Why is Flayn x Byleth such an underrepresented/contested pairing?]

7 minutes ago, Eurydice said:

Also Byleth would probably die via Seteth's wrath 8D

Do people completely miss the part where Seteth tells Byleth he literally trusts them with Flayn's life?

[Why is Flayn x Byleth such an underrepresented/contested pairing?]

2 minutes ago, Loki Laufeyson said:

Wait, theres even a question of why Flayn/Byleth is funky? You do not hook up with characters when they are students. Everyone is well over the age of 18, and look the part post skip. Flayn doesnt change. This is a clue to her true nature, but its also what turns people off. She stays pretty much an underage girl (dont give me that "shes really hella old" shite) visibly, and its freaking creepy to some folx to romance her. (For the record, i find romancing Sothis highly disturbing as well. Perhaps moreso) 

Flayn is one of my favorite characters, but hell no im not marrying her. N o p e. Im no teenager, my Byleth is no teenager, im not gonna bonk a teenager. Especially considering Seteth is right there and perfect spouse material Ill be honest, i dont even like the idea of romancing Bernadetta be ause of how petite and young she looks. Even post skip. 

Feel free to have disagreements about Flayn but don't call others "creepy" for liking or romancing her. With everyone claiming that Nabatean x Byleth relationships are incestuous (which I don't agree with), someone could easily call you creepy for saying Seteth is "perfect spouse material" (IE what is that, some weird daddy fetish?). Everyone deserves to have their opinions respected if they aren't disrespecting others.

[Why is Flayn x Byleth such an underrepresented/contested pairing?]

17 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

My general impression of Flayn is that I like her dialogue and voice acting but when I see her face and character model, I'm a bit creeped out by her. Like she's a doll brought to life. Her ears being obscured also makes her head seem ill-defined and lacking in human features for your brain to grasp onto. Of course, there's a good lore reason why her ears need to be hidden by her hair.

Perhaps it's the "Monika effect" or the fact that Flayn is the only one that looks directly at the player as opposed to the slight profile shot of the other characters. Very few Fire Emblem characters have this characteristic, and no one else in 3H does outside of Byleth themself.

[Why is Flayn x Byleth such an underrepresented/contested pairing?]

6 minutes ago, NolanBaumgartner said:

I think we're getting too hung up on the whole "loli" thing. Let's just agree that Flayn physically resembles a child. 

Why should we agree on that? What makes her resemble a child any moreso than any of the other short characters (female and male btw)?

[Why is Flayn x Byleth such an underrepresented/contested pairing?]

4 minutes ago, Benice said:

That was basically what I was trying to say; I was pointing out that people see her as the fish waman and nothing more. I geuess it fell through, though.

Oh, my mistake, my stupid eyes read the last part of your post as "I don't find that appealing". If it'd read it over more carefully I would've seen your intent. Sorry.

4 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Flayn being a loli might turn people off and for fans into that she has some competition from Sothis who's a bit more fanservicy on that front. 

How are you defining Flayn as a loli? I hesitated to point this out but she has a larger bust size than Egelgard, and the latter is pretty short too. Does that then mean pre-timeskip Edelgard is a loli?

[Why is Flayn x Byleth such an underrepresented/contested pairing?]

14 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

Also, if you want a Byleth x Flayn fic, be the change you want to see in the world 😉

Here's a Byleth x Flayn fic that was actually done for me as a gift (admittedly it could use more of them actually interacting but I still enjoyed it). Check it out and it's good to have some Flayn solidarity!

9 minutes ago, darkblade2814 said:

maybe due  to the fact they are related in a way, they are cousins, if you consider Sitri as a child  of rheia, I don't agree, as a fellow ByalthxFlyin shipper

You may not agree, but to the people that do that reasoning makes no sense. Flayn is in no way genetically related to Byleth, and if you want to say dragon blood makes them related, you'd have to say that she's then related to all crest bearers in some way. I'm really not interested in having a lore debate so I won't go into that further.

7 minutes ago, Benice said:

I also like Flayn, but I guess people would rather go on a romantic date at a restraunt instead of fishing for hours on end? I don't find it that appalling, personally.

I can't tell if this is a joke. You DO know there's way more to her character than enjoying fish, right? That's another problem the fanbase has: instead of seeing Flayn as a fleshed out, multi-dimensional character, people always reduce her to "that fish meme girl" so they can push her to the side and never take her seriously.