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Big log today, as I had to break the back of the piled-up paralogues this game-month. Lorenz's Paralogue Sylvain's Paralogue Ingrid/Dorothea's Paralogue Manuela/Hanneman's Paralogue Raphael/Ignatz's Paralogue Felix's Paralogue Chapter 9

Macuil Evil Repelling Co - 6.5/10 When the game first came out, this was one of the best magic battalions in the game - especially for CF, where it exceeded Vestra, and its only genuine competition was Ordelia Sorcery Co. (+10 Hit is probably better than +1 Atk). But its early availability is mitigated by the fact that nobody will equip this till probably midway through Part 2, and the DLC brought with it more competition. Even still, I absolutely would run this battalion on a grounded magic attacker for endgame, because Maddening makes the hit boost even more salient. The 6.5 comes from the fact that it's not hugely relevant before the later game. Indech Sword Fighters - 6.5/10 The only reason I'd field this over Leicester Mercenaries is for Retribution, which I don't tend to use often. I tend not to care at all about Retribution before the late-game, when this battalion becomes relevant - but it is still the strongest Retribution I can get, and a strong battalion in its own right. Again, not higher than 6.5 due its lack of earlier relevance. Cichol Wyvern Co - 7.5/10 Available on all routes, solid gambit, and stats-wise your best flying battalion on at least two out of four routes. If you're fielding a physical flier, they're probably running this if they can. If you're fielding more than one, then you're definitely running this. Of course, it depends how much mileage you get out of fliers (or how committed you are to A Authority), and again, lack of earlier relevance caps its score beneath the top tier. But it's still really good. Cethleann Monks - 2.5/10 Where my love for Resonant White Magic is tested. Not really, though, because I've always maintained the gambit loses its relevance outside of the early game, which this battalion certainly will be. In fact, you should have most of the powerful magic battalions fully levelled by the time you can equip this, so it's actually quite hard to justify. The only possibility I can think of is where your physical units are running the support gambits you normally use (Stride/Retribution etc.) and you're looking for something to put on your healer, where your healer has A-rank authority. Its Res is matched but not beaten by battalions on every route, but boosts to Res and Hit, and a decent boost to Atk, are perhaps the things that matter most to a healer? I don't know, I'm struggling. Side question - does the Cha boost of the battalion (or indeed, the Authority skills) affect the power of Resonant White Magic? Holy Knights of Seiros - 5.5/10 I cannot think of any unit that I've built specifically for high Def and high Res. But normally, somebody that wants one appreciates the other, and I guess Paladins sort of naturally fall into the role of dealing with both physical units and casters. So yes, I do field it, but not normally beyond mid-game, where I'm still dealing with the glut of paralogue battalions.

Paralogues are a bit quicker to do than the labour-intensive monastery, but doing lots of battles in a row is quite tiring. Which is why I've managed to turn around this episode of the log quicker than usual. For paralogues, I won't write in a Fun Fact unless I find something really interesting. Sothis' Paralogue Dedue's Paralogue Chapter 8 Yeah, that's even worse than I was expecting - count me out! Thankfully, I barely needed any fishing to hit A+ early this run.

Was thinking of Swarm - good catch! Yeah completely agreed. Yeah, I don't want to paint it as Mercedes must be a sniper or else. The build requires plenty of time and investment, and it may not be necessary depending on who else you're running. Bishop Mercedes is also perfectly serviceable - I just think that Magic Bow Sniper is often the best justification of Mercedes' deployment slot (in the mid-to-lategame, anyway).

The short answer is yes and no. Warlock does nothing for Hubert, and Dark Bishop is not ideal as an endgame class (or in general). So his ideal endgame classes are Dark Knight or Paladin (or Sniper). Dark Knight keeps magic access, Paladin and Sniper provide greater power but with different trade-offs. But with all three of those builds, you will need to train at least three to four different ranks. It still isn't particularly high-investment, because Hubert is proficient in everything he wants except Riding (and, arguably, Faith). But he does need some focus, especially because Frozen Lance in the early game is a crucial way of getting OHKOs. As for Mercedes, she does do just fine as a support unit with Physic and Fortify. However, outside of Blue Lions, you don't really need her as a healer (and if you have the DLC, you certainly don't need her to heal). So what do you do with her if she doesn't heal? She could be a Dancer, I guess - but if you want her to contribute offensively, Magic Bow Sniper is her best option by far. This is a fair point - you have limited investing resources, so putting them on a unit who doesn't need them to be decent means potentially detracting from somewhere necessary. But, where would that be on CF? Offense-wise, you're putting resources into Edelgard, Byleth, and probably Petra and Bernadetta. Linhardt/Caspar/Dorothea all have mediocre combat generally, and their best classes (Bishop/Grappler/Dancer) require little investment. Jeritza basically comes ready-made, unless you want to make him a flier. Then there's anyone else you've recruited. Given you have 12 slots for endgame, and four of them on a standard run require little-to-no investment, I think there is enough space to put work into Hubert, especially since it yields massive benefits in the later game (see below). If you're running lots of high-investment builds, then you can of course drop Sniper Hubert if you want - I'm certainly not saying you have to do it. But on a standard CF run, there's no issue with running that here. Banshee is at its most effective in the early-to-midgame, when you can genuinely shut down units - and Hubert should be in Mage at that point no matter what build you go for, so no issue there. It's still decent later on, but enemies with Mv of 6 or higher (which are quite a lot of them) can reach Hubert after he hits them with Banshee, basically meaning he's dead. Mire is similarly situational in the mid-to-late game, because enemy AS is normally either already within doubling range, or well outside of doubling range. I'm not saying there's no lategame utility to be had here, but it's certainly not a huge sacrifice for increased attack power. Let's say you recruit Ashe in Ch. 6 on CF, and he hits Lvl 35 by Ch. 17, spending 5 levels in Archer, 5 in Brigand, and the remainder in Sniper. That's an average 24 Str. With a Silver Bow+, Death Blow, Sniper Bowfaire and a +8 physical battalion, that gets to 56 Atk. With Hunter's Volley, that's 57 Atk x2. Outside of mages (excluding Dark Knights), enemies on this map have Def stats of 30 or higher. No enemy on this map has HP below 54. So, without other help, over-levelling or stacking crit, Sniper Ashe can only ORKO non-mounted mages (maybe Mercedes depending on Rafael Gem/Miracle) and fliers in Ch. 17. In comparison, Hubert (progression Noble > Monk > Mage (lvl 10) > Archer (lvl 16) > Sniper (lvl 20)) hits on average 31 Mag at Lvl 35. With a Magic Bow+, Fiendish Blow, Mag +2, Sniper Bowfaire and a +7 magic battalion, that gets to 59 Atk. With Hunter's Volley, that's 60 Atk x2. Because Res stats are only above 30 on Falcon Knights, mages and Rhea, Sniper Hubert can ORKO everything on this map except mounted mages, Mercedes, Rhea, the Golems, monster Dedue, and the final bars of other non-Golem monsters. I know Ashe is a bad unit that you're using to make a point, but no, Sniper Ashe is most certainly not on the same tier as a Magic Sniper build. EDIT: Rewrote calculations/conclusions to include Bowfaire.

So this is a tough one to adjudicate. If you're quite quick, you can get Hubert to Paladin/Sniper in Ch. 10, especially if you do a lot of paralogues. If you don't do that, then he'll only reach Paladin/Sniper in Chapter 12. I'd expect to master Sniper by Ch.14 or Ch.15 at the latest (I think this would be worthy of sticking a Knowledge Gem on him, but I won't assume it). In that case, you've got three to four chapter battles, and maybe some post-skip paralogues, where Paladin outshines Sniper with its higher power and Mv. After Hubert masters Sniper, he should have the chapter battles from Ch. 15-8, and any remaining paralogues, with Hunter's Volley. I think for every one of those battles, Magic Bow Sniper is better than Paladin (you want to keep Hubert safe in Ch.15 and sniping is better than Canto for that there, Ch. 16 is mage-heavy but HV gets kills Frozen Lance doesn't, and the last two chapters nerf Paladin's Mv but not Sniper's range). So it's a question of where you want Hubert to do his best work, and there is a choice to be made. I think you're right that brave magic is generally more valuable on other routes - but Chapter 17 alone makes the case for having one on CF I think. There are enough units that you want to delete straightaway (fliers, units transforming into monsters, etc.) that a powerful ORKO build makes the difference on that map. Outside of fliers, Magic Bow Sniper is one of the better builds for that. I think I agree with all of this. I do sweep the monastery every month, but apart from that I play exactly as you describe. 2 Arcane Crystal for normal Magic Bow (Magic Bow+ is obviously better, but I don't normally bother with it until I need to repair my Magic Bow or I get Hunter's Volley) has never felt like a lot to me, and pre-Hunter's Volley I don't normally get through 50 uses (25 pre-skip, 25-post skip). Getting Hunter's Volley will likely mean I need more Arcane Crystal, but by that point again I haven't felt such resource pressure that I'm worried about not being able to run the build. So it may just be the case that I have been RNG-blessed all this time (or you've been cursed).

Fair enough - adjutant + Knowledge Gem is how I normally get mages through physical classes as well. Archer is still as mobile as any other non-mounted physical unit, so I didn't face this issue in mid-Part 1. I don't often run Cavaliers though, so maybe the Mv gap is more pronounced in Intermediate classes for other people. True, I mainly just wanted to compare the competition/costs for repairing Magic Bows with repairing Relics. Umbral Steel is available earlier and more reliably, but more units want it, you need to barrier break certain beasts to get it, and repairs aren't cheap (relatively speaking - in general I'm not worried about my finances in Part 2 anyway). Arcane Crystal is relatively pricey when you buy it and fairly unavailable before then, but almost nobody else wants it. I could definitely see the comparison going the way of Umbral Steel, but I don't think there's much in it.

All good points - but I don't think you can write it off as a side-build because of it. Hubert is one of the easiest characters for this build, because he gets reliable kills from Frozen Lance, meaning he can actually fight while gaining class EXP in Archer. His high Mag stat and Heavy Draw means he could get kills in the mid-game without Hunter's Volley. And, if you have the space for it, he could pick up Poison Strike as well, which makes normal Magic Bow chip pretty overwhelming pre-mastering Sniper. It is true you need to keep a Magic Bow+ maintained - but to me this is at least equivalent, if not less maintenance, than using any Relic regularly (i.e. Swift Strikes LoR). I don't see anyone saying those builds are prohibitively high-maintenance. And if you've tried it you're more than aware of its benefits (especially on CF, where enemy Res doesn't spike to the same degree as other late-games). You could probably get Hubert into Dark Bishop/Warlock/Dark Knight/Paladin as well as Sniper, but since mastering Sniper is necessary for this build to come fully online, you should probably either double down on the build or not do it, rather than trying to put feet in both camps. Of course, the build functions for less time than it would on other routes, but that's true of just about every build available in CF. You probably won't have mastered an Advanced class before Part 2 unless you've shown the unit a lot of favouritism, so lots of builds at the top of the meta (FIF Grapplers, brawling dodge tanks, normal Vantage/Wrath, normal Hunter's Volley) won't be online yet. Not even Aymr-Wyvern Edelgard, arguably the most broken build in 3H, is available before Ch. 13. Given that this is the lifespan for many good builds, Magic Bow Sniper is not out of step on this - and the significant burn on Magic Bow uses doesn't come till Sniper is mastered. Onto Arcane Crystal availability - there's not huge competition for Arcane Crystal when you'd class into Sniper (maybe somebody wants a Levin Sword+? I can't imagine it being crucial). So unless you don't do the monastery and never do any aux battles for ore, you're likely to have more than enough Arcane Crystal for a Magic Bow pre-skip, which then gets repaired for post-skip. You then have three chapter battles and (up to 6 if you're in a rush, more likely 2-3) paralogues in Part 2 before the Arcane Crystal merchant becomes available, and then probably the remainder of your paralogues and three chapter battles before the end of the run. In other words, Arcane Crystal becomes readily buyable halfway through Part 2 on CF from the perspective of combats faced. And it's sometime in the first half of Part 2 that the build is likely to come online. So it's not quite as bad as you've painted it here. Well, we've had this argument before, so I know I won't convince you of anything, but here you go anyway. Hmm I'd ask you to say why you think Magic Bow Mercedes doesn't justify herself, but I think we'll just end up with the same talking points.

And we're back! The next logs will be the pre-skip paralogues interspersed with chapter battles - I haven't decided how frequently I'll post given this, but I will write up each paralogue individually (maybe pared down a bit). Chapter 6 Chapter 7 I briefly gave this a go (I didn't need to, it was just out of curiosity), but I couldn't get a non-tournament fish at all. Tbf I only used about 10 bait, but it did make me doubt my memory of getting PEXP from this. I tried alternating between Good and Perfect on the different icons, but nothing. If I had to save-scum a lot in order to get a small fish's PEXP out of this, I'd probably be losing it.

Gloucester Knights - 7.75/10 This is arguably the best battalion that supports both physical and magical attack, and I like running units like that. But characters that can do both stop being effective in the mid-to-late-game, and specialists prefer other battalions. Still, its balance and high attack boosts make it a straightforwardly good battalion I field for most of the game. Leicester Mercenaries - 7.8/10 One of the best non-lord physical battalions, with Blaze to boot. It has better stats for physical units and a better gambit than Gloucester Knights, but more units can use Gloucester Knights profitably, so I don't feel there's a big gap between them. Victor Private Military - 6/10 When it first becomes available, it is one of (maybe the?) most powerful physical battalion you can use outside of the DLC (because B-rank Authority in Ch. 8 is a push at best, and certainly unlikely to be widespread), and helpfully comes with a hit boost. But its lifespan is determined by when most or all of your team hit B-rank, which normally isn't too long after. Still a solid choice for that period of time, so it deserves its 6. Goneril Valkyries - 8.2/10 A better version of Leicester Mercenaries, with the exception of not having Blaze. The fact that this battalion is available on three out of four routes, despite having the power of a house lieutenant's battalion, is what puts it over 8. Almyra Mercenaries - 4/10 You will be able to do better than this battalion when it first becomes available. But looking purely at physical attack, it might make your top 9-10 units at the time, depending on authority. It'll drop away soon enough. My strongest memories of this battalion lie in making the early game of NG+ Maddening vastly more manageable, as an E-rank battalion with +5 attack and Fusillade - not sure if that should influence my grading.

Oof. No Prt-boosting battalion is saving Ashe from the truth. This would have been much better. Deadeye, and I guess debuffs/locktouch are his main unique contributions, so a battalion that reflects those would have been nice.

Welcome back! I've been using this thread to help guide what battalions I pick up and when on my current run, so on lots of levels very happy to see the thread return! Duscur Heavy Soldiers - 7/10 (EDIT: Retroactive score increase to 8/10) Looking purely at the stats, this deserves higher. +10 Prt means this battalion is best at its niche, but it also has the second-highest available boost to physical attack - and I think it's the earliest available B-rank battalion. To the point where unless you've really focused on raising a unit's Authority, it's not likely anyone can even equip it in Chapter 6. AM is also the best route for physical tanks (between Dedue, Alois, and Gilbert, a def-tank is available for every chapter from Ch.6, and Balthus also exists for DLC users). However, I think the viability of def-tanks fluctuates throughout the game, and the penalty to Avo means that they are the only units who truly appreciate this battalion. The restricted nature of who wants to equip it means it won't get higher than a 7. Galatea Pegasus Co. - 8/10 More accessible than Cichol Wyverns, and available/equippable for longer. Could do with more Hit, but that won't stop me from equipping it as soon as a flier hits B-rank Authority. Lure is not competitive with other gambits you see at B-rank, but I quite like its movement effect (basically a Reposition for enemies), which chimes well with being a flier with Canto - there's definitely worse gambits on flying battalions. Gautier Knights - 7/10 Sylvain has arguably the easiest recruitment conditions of any character in the game, so I think this is the most accessible of the paralogue battalions. But Stride doesn't normally belong on frontline units, and physical units (who want the atk/avo boost) tend to be frontliners. There is a case for certain builds using this (Bow Knights/Tricksters/War Clerics/Assassins) but the fact your healer doesn't want this counts against it. Where this battalion comes into its own, though, is when you have to split the party. Stick this on a Paladin, Stride one group, and then use Canto to head to the frontlines of the other group. Its stats and bulk mean it won't let your Paladin down, and you're covering two bases with one unit. When it matters, it really does matter - but I don't always need to split the party, and the builds I mentioned before definitely have competition for their battalion, so no higher than 7. Fraldarius Soldiers - 5.5/10 A crit boost without a hit boost (or, less importantly, avo) is not ideal. But there are certain niche uses of this, where you know you want as high a crit rate as possible (often when you're setting up against the Death Knight without Lysithea or Hubert around), and if you can rectify hit rates in other ways then by all means bring this. But there are other paralogue battalions that buff hit and provide only slightly less crit than this one, and they normally win out. Gaspard Knights - 2/10 The weird thing about this battalion is I can't tell why it would suit Ashe. Most other character battalions at least appear to complement their character's canon strengths, but I can't see how this screams Ashe. For the stats it provides, B-rank Authority is also much too steep - Ignatz's battalion is better and comes at C-rank, so I don't know what's happened here. In fact, it's worse in most respects than the house armoured battalions available at B-rank Authority. But, I'm still more likely to equip it than the battalion presenting themselves at below a 2/10, so this is the score it gets. As a point of information, I just got this battalion again, after completing 3 of the 4-person recon missions. So theoretically, you could get it in time for the Chapter 5 battle if you explore on all free days that month - more realistically, you're actually accessing it from Chapter 6.

Hehehe yeah I think at least part of it will be me digging my heels in because I know it's unpopular, and also deliberately positioning units so I can use the gambit rather than it coming up that organically. Completely agreed! The not fun bit is that the line is there to begin with, and it's nice to see the translation being really thoughtful about it, finding a compromise between the spirit of the support and avoiding insensitivity. I've already spotted a couple of other instances of this as well, although I'll probably wait till next log to talk about them. It's really easy to skate past this stuff, but a lot of work goes into localisation, so now that I'm doing the run I'll highlight it where I see it. Ooh good tip - it's annoying if you let Kronya into the forests, so I may use this when I get there as well. I don't think it did, which means it probably didn't work. Yeah it isn't great, but for the lower weapon ranks it could make the difference between spending one activity point or two to reach the next rank, which is why I've been doing it. Hearteningly, Byleth was basically fine in Ch. 5, so I think once she gets in Peg Knight it'll sort itself. So I've discovered this run that tournaments provide the most PEXP. Before they're unlocked, meals are best (choir can give the same amount, but only for certain pairings). The PEXP you get from professor questions is super important (with the price that it happens once a month and you can't pick who it happens to), and scales with the lower professor ranks, so that's also very valuable. I'm not likely to bother unless I'm close to a threshold when it happens. But it is a smart way to use the massive number of fish you get given, so let's see.

Being late on the weekend (and Ch. 5 being a pain) has thrown off my writing schedule a bit, but I'm hoping to get back on track soon. Anyway, here's the next edition of the log! Chapter 3: Chapter 4: Chapter 5: Thanks for reading! In advance of next log - do people have opinions on when to recruit people if I'm not using them? I'm specifically thinking of people I will use for Part 1 paralogues but not after (like Yuri/Balthus). Do I recruit them in Ch. 6 and then attempt to level them myself, or is it fine if I recruit them just before I do their paralogue? I normally train everyone I recruit all the way through, so using and dumping recruits is a bit alien to me. It's Axes/Lances. I haven't been doing much faculty training on them yet so she didn't have prowess skills (as I wrote above), which is why her hit rates weren't great. Yeah, this is the classic tip, although if you want a high professor level quickly (especially pre-Chapter 5) then fishing isn't enough. You normally get Carassius (I think they're called), but you can sometimes get normal fish as well - nice catch @Mordred, could definitely use this to top up PEXP if necessary.

Apologies for the late post! I finished Ch. 2 yesterday, but have only just gotten round to writing everything up. As a bonus section, I've also written down some general thoughts about my CS run as well. CS Chapter 6: CS Chapter 7: Some thoughts on CS Chapter 2: That's it for now!

Thanks for the tip! I tend to recruit everyone ASAP because I normally try to raise everyone (or nearly everyone) up until endgame. I think I won't do that this time around - if I'm using people for their paralogue, I will recruit them either at Ch. 6 (for Part 1 paralogues) or Ch. 12 (for Hilda/Part 2 paralogues). The exceptions will be the recruits I actually want for endgame - if I C-rank her, Catherine should definitely be recruitable by Ch. 5. I might be able to do better, depending on how many resources I use on Ferdinand/Lysithea.

And we return to Cindered Shadows! I'm going to add in some new features to future logs - a count of Divine Pulses used (I haven't used any before now this run), and any stand-out successes/failures in each map. I don't know how directly relevant it'll be to the Hopes run, but I think it'll help me remember the spirit in which I approached things, so I can try to preserve that when I get round to playing Hopes. CS Chapter 2: CS Chapter 3: CS Chapter 4: CS Chapter 5: Thanks for reading! Will hopefully finish CS and return to the main story later this week! Good to know! I've never tested it out before, so nice to hear that applies (althoughI guess there are maybe only a couple of other times in the game where I'm worried about that). As I thought, but good to hear from someone else that I'm not missing out. I haven't had the best of Ingrid in the past tbh, so my expectations for her aren't super high. Darting Blow would be nice for Ingrid, but that would make it three Intermediate masteries (along with Death Blow and Hit +20) I'm getting for her build. Given that I'm going to have to favour other units already (i.e. my hybrids), I'm not sure how feasible it'll be. Darting Blow is at its best in the mid-game, before enemies split completely into bog-slow and too-fast-to-bother, so I'd have to go Pegasus Knight first... which is still decent actually. As long as I can get Sniper in time for Chapter 12, I can always go back and master an Intermediate with a Knowledge Gem. Yeah, I'll consider it! I think Mordred might have been referring to Catherine in general - I've definitely struggled with her in Part 2 (although that may just be due to using classes that tend to drop off over Part 2, like Swordmaster). But I do have high hopes for her as a brawling dodge tank - I think there's a solid chance that this is her best build for Maddening. Her current build idea is also less demanding than Ingrid's, so there's more leeway for Darting Blow.

I ended up with some free time today, so I decided I'd start my run, and my progress log - am hoping to write updates twice a week. The main purpose of this log is so that I record things for when my Hopes run rolls around - my plan for that game is to hew as closely as possible to the decisions I make here. Also, I haven't played Maddening NG for a long while, and am excited to see how it feels. Prologue: Chapter 1: CS Chapter 1: I probably won't be able to post for a couple of days now, but would very much like to hear whether people have opinions on how I should spend the DLC stuff (particularly the Mv booster) once I do get back to the main game. Also, is there any reason to go out of my way to get Seal Mv on Dimitri? I ran him as a Paladin last time around, but I don't really remember using the skill much - is it worth three tutoring sessions on a skill I otherwise won't raise?

Interesting idea! Will keep it in mind, although I don't normally cook meals in Part 2 . Agreed on both, it's mainly to shore up their hit rates (in Mercedes' case at 4 spaces), and the adjutants are specifically for endgame. Till then, adjutant roles are for whoever needs training with Knowledge Gems. Fair point - the motivation for Soldier is to have someone else with Reposition, but I agree that Str+2 is more relevant. Yeah I'm not expecting Ferdinand to def-tank per se, I just want above-average survivability so I can play more aggressively. I did something similar with Sylvain on a previous run and most non-Wyvern physical damage was in single/low double digits (fully kitted out of course). Yep, it'll be either revert to Sniper if she's really bad, or just Brave Bow+.

Okay, so I'm beginning to flesh out build plans for everyone now, and I've given up on some of the stuff from my earlier post sketching it out. F!Byleth: Soldier > Brigand > Pegasus Knight > Wyvern Rider > Wyvern Lord (endgame Sword/Bow, Sword Prowess Lvl 5, Death Blow, Darting Blow, Axebreaker, Bow Prowess) Weapon ranks will be a bit of a pain, but I'm happy to save-scum certs so hopefully it shouldn't actually be that bad. I won't assume S-rank Swords given the build demand, but Crit+10 would probably make it in there if I got it. Dimitri: Fighter > Archer > (Dancer cert) > Assassin > Swordmaster (endgame Sword/Bow, Sword Prowess Lvl 5, Hit+20, Sword Avoid+20, Battalion Wrath, Axebreaker/Battalion Vantage/Sword Crit+10) As long as he isn't Str-screwed, I'm expecting big things. Dedue: Fighter > Brigand > Brawler/Grappler (guard adjutant for Dimitri) On second thought, if anyone deserves an Adjutant it's Dimitri, so I won't raise Dedue particularly seriously after his paralogue. Felix: Fighter > Archer > Brigand > Warrior > War Master (endgame Axes/Bows, Axe Prowess Lvl 5, Hit+20, Battalion Vantage, Quick Riposte, Lancebreaker/Axe Crit+10) Warrior isn't as good as Grappler, but for this build every bit of Str growth counts, so I don't mind his combat taking a slight hit in mid-Part 2 (and he doesn't need to master it). I still expect him to destroy stuff. Ashe: Fighter > Archer (>Brigand) > Wyvern Rider (dropped after Ch. 13) Sylvain: Soldier > Brigand > Archer > Wyvern Rider > Wyvern Lord (endgame Lances/Bows, Lance Prowess Lvl 5, Death Blow, Hit+20, Swordbreaker, Lance Crit+10) Player Phase delete button, no need to say more. Mercedes: Monk > Mage > Archer (> Valkyrie) > Sniper (endgame Bows, Bow Prowess Lvl 5, Hit+20, Uncanny Blow/Bow Crit+10, Fiendish Blow, Mag+2) Slightly suspicious of having a build use four masteries, and I may just use the Abyssian Pass on someone else, but I already said I was showing her favouritism, so what's a little more? Annette: Monk > Mage > Warlock > Armor Knight (guard adjutant for Mercedes) Mercedes already has a lot of help. However, Annette helps make her a near-guaranteed delete button from four spaces, so for now she's adjutant no. 2, but still subject to review. Ingrid: Fighter > Brigand > Archer > Sniper > BK (endgame Bows, Bow Prowess Lvl 5, Hit+20, Bow Crit+10, Death Blow, Mv+1) For now, I'm thinking Bow Knight because it brings something more interesting to the table than another sniper. Catherine: (Swordmaster) > Brigand > Assassin > War Cleric (endgame Fists/Bows, Brawl Prowess Lvl 5, Death Blow, Brawl Avoid+20, Brawl Crit+10, Bow Prowess) Willl give her a battalion with solid crit/avo, so hopefully she can do a bit of both. Assassin is just so she has a choice in classes with better growths, I don't need the mastery. Cyril: Fighter > Brigand > Archer > Wyvern Rider > Wyvern Lord (endgame Bows/Axes, Bow Prowess Lvl 5, Death Blow, Hit +20, Close Counter, Axe Prowess) If things go well, he's Sylvain with range. Let's see what happens. The build won't be quite as demanding as Byleth, but Cyril also isn't as usable as Byleth, so not going to assume S Bows. Shamir: (Sniper) > Armor Knight (guard adjutant for Catherine) I would be using Shamir properly except for the reasons I gave above. I also suspect Catherine will need the help. Hapi: Monk > Mage > Warlock > Gremory (endgame Reason/Faith, Reason Prowess Lvl 5, Faith Prowess Lvl 5, Mag+2, Fiendish Blow, Black Magic Range+1) Not sure about Warlock, although if she ends up as Gremory then there's no particular need to complicate her build for the boost Valkyrie/Dark Flier may bring. Constance: Monk > Mage > Valkyrie > War Cleric (endgame Fists/Reason/Faith, Brawl Prowess Lvl 5, Fiendish Blow, Uncanny Blow, Mag+2, Brawl Avoid+20/Reason Prowess Lvl 5) I'm not expecting Constance to do much dodging, so I'm not sure if Brawl Avo+20 is worth an endgame slot. Another labour-intensive build - let's see if I can give it the attention it deserves. Lysithea: Monk > Mage > Valkyrie > Dark Knight (endgame Reason/Faith, Reason Prowess Lvl 5, Faith Prowess Lvl 5, Uncanny Blow, Fiendish Blow, Black Magic Range+1) I wasn't planning on running Lysithea originally, but changes in other people's roles meant there was now no reason to raise up Yuri or Balthus, leaving two open slots for endgame. Given I only had one other pure mage on previous plans, I figure why not. Unsure whether to have Valkyrie or Dark Knight for the final maps. Ferdinand: Soldier > Archer > Brigand > Fortress > Paladin (endgame Lance/Bow, Lance Prowess Lvl 5, Death Blow, Hit +20, Swordbreaker, Pavise) Idea is to create a broadly tanky unit (what Balthus would probably have been), making use of the Cichol lance/shield to restore Ferdinand's personal every round. Going to Paladin instead of Great Knight gives a better stat spread for this. Other recruitment: Lorenz/Raph/Hilda/Caspar for their paralogues, and anyone else whose requirements I meet naturally for their paralogues.

Not a bad idea at all actually. There really isn't huge competition for her skill slots. I should specify, I want Brawl Avoid +20, not necessarily for her to stay in War Cleric from Ch. 13 to endgame (I wrote misleadingly before). She will need to master War Cleric, and it'll probably be her endgame class because Fistfaire, but outside of that she can be levelling in Swordmaster/Assassin until her power drops off too far (i.e last few chapters). Brawl Avoid +20 and her speed growths should be enough to give her competitive avoid even in the late chapters. I won't need her to serve as a primary dodge tank because as you point out I have better options, but what this does allow is a solid Player Phase (Vajra-Mushti/Killer Knuckles+ Nimble Combo with Death Blow) and survivability against at least some enemies on Enemy Phase. A general struggle I've been having is to figure out twelve complementary roles for my endgame party, and this is the best I could think of for Catherine, given what else I'm running. I think Battalion Wrath/Vantage is a great combo, but I think SA +20/Battalion Wrath is the more reliable choice here (I can run Battalion Vantage as well if I have space I guess). I don't like EP builds generally, or sacrificing Dancer which I normally like running, but this run is all about trying new things. Not utilising Areadbhar to its fullest extent is a shame, but I will certainly be running other lance users so it won't go to waste. If I do the sword dodge tank, that also means I won't use Paladin (which I have run before for him, is certainly amazing), so he'll be switching between SM/Assassin. So I will definitely take the monastery seriously this run (just because it'll make my life easier eventually, and it's also what I do anyway). I don't much care about the mastery skill (I don't like running Defiant skills/Vengeance builds even though I accept how powerful they are) but Wyvern Lord is pretty attractive for Byleth, so I think we'll go with that.

That boss fight is absolutely obscene, although I think it took me even longer to beat Shiva first time round (I spent like an hour attempting it with protagonist at lvl 90 before I was actually like oh, let me max his level out first, so I'm also the idiot). All lost progress now though Definitely won't bench, am thinking Wyvern Lord because I tended to use Paladin on him in past playthroughs. Absolutely agree - I think I will be gunning for endgame War Master (perhaps B. Vantage, Quick Riposte, Hit +20, Axe Prowess, Lancebreaker/Axe Crit +10 for an late-game crit build, but before he masters WM he can just do a classic player phase build with Death Blow). Correct, she will be a Magic Bow Sniper, a build I love but haven't yet tried on her. She will only act as a healer in early game (which is her best time to heal anyway, and Live to Serve is really good for early maps). I might pick up Linhardt by accident, but I'm not planning for it. Hapi also exists, so I'm not too worried about him. Yeah I don't care about Annette specifically being a Guard Adjutant (although I might still make her one because the other adjutant forms are pointless on her as well), but what matters to me here is the extra Mt/hit rate boost from A support with Mercedes. In the latter chapters, Mercedes' hit/kill rates could fall a bit (as they have whenever else I've run this build) so Annette is there to keep them up. You might still have a point that someone else could need an adjutant more - I can play that by ear I think. Completely agree, I'm using her now because I don't normally use her, because she isn't great. I'm thinking Sniper/Bow Knight for her with Death Blow, to see if that saves her combat (I think I've already tried everything else she can do decently well). Again, agree, but same reasons for Catherine as Ingrid (although I do think it's easier for Catherine to keep up). Shamir is one of my favourite characters in the game, so I'm deliberately not going to use her/early HV because I do that a lot. I'm thinking Catherine will eventually run as a dodge-tank War Cleric - it won't be optimal from a damage perspective, but should keep her relevant-ish for the late-game, and adjutant Shamir will help with Mt/Avo boosting. I don't like using Cyril, have always been underwhelmed by him, so hoping PBV Wyvern Lord will eventually change my mind. Lysithea is amazing, another unit I used to use regularly, which is why I will avoid recruiting her this time round I think. Hapi's Warp is not as good or as accessible, but it'll do (there aren't many Part 1 chapters I care about Warp for anyway). I'm not actually sure about what to do for either Balthus or Dimitri. Balthus has kinda sucked for me so far, which is why I was going to try and use him, but I also think his worst route is AM because there are so many powerful physical options on that route (and it doesn't make massive story sense either). Hapi is great, although slightly worse than Lysithea. Constance is a decent mage, but I'm not using her optimally anyway. Yuri is great on paper, but only alright in practice. I will probably make Ashe a Wyvern Rider so he can run away in Ch. 13 and then dump him. This is what I used Dedue for originally, and his Part 1 was great, his Part 2 was so-so. Grappler would probably keep him competitive, but maybe he should be an adjutant for Dimitri and I scrap another pair (probably Balthus/Hilda). Maybe you're right, Yuri probably won't be a good enough dodge tank to justify losing a dancer. But what if... I scrap Dancer Yuri, give SA +20 to Dimitri and let him dodge tank (with Battalion Wrath if necessary). His Str should let him keep up on kills, and there are plenty of other lance users who won't waste Areadbhar. It's also viable before Chapter 13, which is ideal. Hmm, that's tempting me now. I agree, and will definitely do this for Constance, but I'd rather not spend my Renown on Abyssian Exam Passes unless I absolutely have to. Currently I've planned to use 3 out of 4 free ones (1 on Catherine, 2 on Constance). Not sure yet what I do with the 4th - maybe it's so Hapi can switch between Gremory/Valkyrie or Dark Flier. Yeah, I'm thinking Wyvern Lord as well. I've actually never run her in that class before, so am looking forward to it. I've done it before, I'm just not sure if I want to do it now. Recruiting selectively also takes some pressure off support-building/Byleth's build requirements, so would be less planning-intensive on the whole. Lysithea is basically the only unit who I'd actually consider using all the way through this run, that isn't already a free recruit - and while Hapi isn't as good, she's good enough that I don't think I need Lysithea at all. Thank you very much - and for your detailed response!

Done and done! I'm thinking of doing a couple of wacky builds this time around, so am excited to see how that turns out in Hopes Yeah I'm normally very completionist about the monastery, so will take that on this time as well! I think I will play on classic, just because I like the stakes - should have specified in the OP She is! I normally recruit her though, so I'm thinking this time I won't just to introduce some variety. Thank you for the tip! Will bear in mind! That massively sucks - I was lucky enough to keep my account so I didn't have to repurchase stuff, I really feel for him. Ideas for this run are beginning to crystallise now - here's what I've got so far (critique where you like): Run Outline: AM Maddening Classic NG, completing CS in Ch. 2 of the main story. It was a toss-up between AM and SS as routes I haven't done that much, and I think I will enjoy AM more, especially given it's a lead-in to Hopes. Final Party: F!Byleth, Dimitri, Felix, Sylvain, Mercedes (adjutant Annette), Ingrid, Catherine (adjutant Shamir), Cyril, Balthus (adjutant Hilda), Hapi, Constance, Yuri. I will drop Ashe after Ch. 13, and I'm not sure what to do about Dedue - I would really like to include him in my endgame party, but I raised him as a def-tank last time and he was getting outmatched after he returned from hiatus. Builds: I've only settled on Monk > Mage > Valkyrie > War Cleric for Constance. I know this is probably sub-optimal for her, but magic gauntlets user is one of the few things I'm desperate to have saved records of. Monk > Mage > Archer (probs with Knowledge Gem favouritism) > Sniper for Mercedes, with magic sniping as her niche. Two magic attacker builds might be unnecessary, especially on AM, but I'm looking forward to trying to raise both on one run. Fighter > Thief > Dancer (> Assassin) for Yuri. Unsure if I want him to fight or not, but he will definitely take part in the White Heron Cup. Monk > Mage > Warlock/Dark Flier > Gremory for Hapi. She will probably be the only pure mage I field at endgame, and am not sure what her endgame class should be yet. Monk > Mage > Warlock > Armored Knight for Annette. She's getting sacrificed to Mercedes after her paralogue. F!Byleth is just so I can S-Rank Dimitri, not a statement on whether she becomes a Falcon Knight, although I'm open to that. I have ideas for everyone else, but nothing firm, so very willing to hear your suggestions. Recruitment: Ashen Wolves (Ch. 2), Catherine/Cyril (I will try to use them all the way through), Shamir/Hilda as adjutants, Anna/Lorenz/Caspar/Raph whenever convenient for their paralogues, and if I meet recruitment requirements for anyone else naturally then I will recruit them for their paralogue.

In what already feels like an age ago, I returned to 3H after a pretty long self-imposed timeout, all excited to start on Three Hopes when it came out in the summer. I decided I'd do a challenge run of CS to get myself in the mood. However, while playing through that run, my Switch got broken, and no amount of begging nice repair people/praying/cursing the gods would fix it. Which also means I've lost upwards of 500 hours of saves between 3H, SMT V, Catherine and a couple of other assorted games. Now, I've finally been able to treat myself to a new Switch, and face the possibility of re-earning my golden home screen, actually starting a Three Hopes save file, etc. Losing the save files was obviously grim, but the silver lining (I'm telling myself) is that I get to completely immerse myself in Fodlan prior to Engage, which is already coming around soon. So - my plan is to do a Maddening NG run of 3H, with DLC (I will complete CS the moment I unlock it again), followed by completing the same house's route on Three Hopes (will make a thread in that forum when I do, I've avoided most spoilers for Three Hopes so far so please do the same in comments). What I'm looking for from you is interesting ideas for this run, bearing in mind that I'm going to do Three Hopes afterwards with almost no knowledge. Will happily take suggestions on just about everything, including route choice, character build, restrictions on play, and so on. I'm mainly looking for ways to increase the fun factor. I don't mind a challenge, but the CS challenge run I had started previously was very very hard, and I don't want to be so challenged that I'm retrying levels loads of times. I'm also more than happy to spend time in the monastery. I'll probably start the run next week, and will update my progress on here as I go. Looking forward to hearing everyone's ideas below!!

Alliance Archers - 5.5/10 Really great gambit, stats are good for D-rank - but it won't take too long for units to outgrow D-rank, so not higher than 5.5 for me. Alliance Cavalry - 2.5/10 Worse than the Empire equivalent! Nobody wants this, but +4 Atk mean it's technically usable. Alliance Armored Co. - 1.5/10 Less Prt than its peers and no Impregnable Wall? No thanks. Alliance Pegasus Co. - 6/10 As per its peers. Stat spread isn't different enough to warrant a score variation. Alliance Snipers - 5/10 The 0.5 score drop compared to the Kingdom version reflects that Alliance Archers is probably better, and more accessible. Alliance Magic Users - 7.25/10 Worst version of the Resonant gambit, but lots of options for high-Cha mages in house, so only a 0.25 score deduction on the Kingdom version. Alliance Veteran Duelists - 4/10 Meh stats for C-Rank. Absorption makes no sense (especially given this particular battalion? Why not a dark mage battalion so it chimes aesthetically with Lifeseeker?) but I admit a soft spot for using this - no combat benefit I can see, purely personal bias. Still won't get higher than a 4. Alliance Wyvern Co. - 7/10 Putting Impregnable Wall on a flier is a whole point better than on a grounded unit, because flying. In truth, the score increase should be even higher - but I find myself resenting that a strong flying battalion has a gambit that I personally rarely use, so it won't get higher than 7.