------

Except that's literally not what racism is. Ingrid's anger towards the people of Duscur isn't based on race, it's based on the country's actions. That's why she phrases it "people of Duscur". Hell, we don't even know enough about Duscur to call it a race. Dedue's the only person from Duscur we actually see. It could've been home to any number of ethnicities. I mean, if you say "people of America" or "people of England", there's no way you can be talking about one specific race. Islam is a religion, not a race. That comparison isn't exactly helping your argument. Where are you getting this? The entirety of Duscur was just a plot device meant to give the Blue Lions a tragic backstory and fuel Dimitri's hatred towards Edelgard. Other than that, Duscur amounts to squat in the actual story. Like I said before, we don't even get to see Duscur or any of its people besides Dedue. Are you sure you're not thinking of Almyra, which I'll admit is a pretty clear Mexican border allegory? I never said Ingrid's anger towards Duscur was justified or right, I said it was understandable. She's not hating blindly, that's the point. There's a clear reason behind her feelings, and it's not petty racism or "them's not from 'round deez parts", it's a tragedy that caused her personal loss and suffering. A tragedy that, as far as she (and most people in Faerghus) knows, the people of Duscur were directly responsible for. So yes, maybe in her anger and grief she convinced herself that Duscur deserved its punishment. After all, if it wasn't for their actions, her beloved Glenn would still be with her. It makes perfect sense that Duscur made its lasting impresson on her as a nation of heartless killers above all else. I mean, think about how someone who lost a loved one in WW2 would've thought about Germany after the war ended. It's the same exact feeling. And it's perfectly understandable. It isn't right, but it's a far-cry from the blind hatred of racism. And like you said, she learns to let go of her anger through her supports with Dedue. The truly racist characters (like TWSITD) die, as they should.

She's not exactly "racist" like a lot of people say. She holds a grudge against Duscur as a country purely because of the Tragedy, which led to the death of her fiancé Glenn and nearly killed her best friend Dimitri too. Her anger's totally understandable, but naturally makes things uncomfortable between her and Dedue at first. As far as actual race goes though, she doesn't really care. The whole "Ingrid is racist" thing was started as a joke because of Dedue's dark skin (like the "Dimitri murders woman" meme), but some people took it a bit too seriously. This is basically a spot-on description of Dimitri for me lol

If you're not already pairing her with Hanneman, I'd say Lysithea just to make sure her twin crests are cured. As a side note...

I don't recall ever mentioning Sylvain's attractiveness. I'm starting to think you really can't read lol Yeah, this couldn't be a more obvious troll post. Everyone else already spelled out why this is a fresh load of crap, so... enjoy the ingore list, amigo!

Except that's exactly what you did. I mean, look at what you wrote. Sylvain isn't doing anything to you, the player, because he isn't real. And you don't seem to realize that nobody else follows this bizarre, and quite honestly ridiculous, line of thinking. And if guys irl somehow think it's okay to mistreat a woman because she likes Sylvain, isn't that their own fault? To turn around and say "well then she shouldn't have liked Sylvain" is basically victim blaming. True. Except you decided to be a Felix and belittle people for the characters they do like. Yeah, I'm just gonna respond to this with some of your own words. Two. Different. Characters. I mean seriously, why do people even make comparisons like this? It's completely insensitive. Dimitri and Marianne are two separate people who went through entirely different things. There's no "doing it better" when it comes to feelings. How would you feel if you were in a bad place like Marianne and I pointed at some random across the room and told you "Nope! No sympathy! He's being sad better than you."? Put yourself in the character's shoes for a moment before you hate on them just because they don't fit your definition of how someone with depression should act. I feel like this sums it up nicely. Making a topic where the whole point is to crap all over characters you hate is a perfect way to start a war on any board. This topic was bound to get ugly the moment it was created, and lo and behold it didn't disappoint. Not sure why the OP thought a thread like this was neccesary.

This... ...and this. If you think Sylvain's nothing but an irredeemable misogynist, then you're ignoring a huge part of his character and like 90% of his supports too. First off, nobody's "stanning" him. As far as I can see, everyone here's aware of his character flaws. Yes, Sylvain has some jaded views on women and initially makes poor choices because of that. But he grows as a person and realizes that he was wrong to think this way. He's also a loyal friend to his fellow Blue Lions, a true knight and a good-hearted person deep down. Sylvain may not be perfect, but he's far from the monster some people make him out to be. And second, how in the hell does liking Sylvain, a fictional character, mean that women aren't respecting themselves? Honestly I think that's an unfair assumption and a little bit insulting even. Anyway, my least favorites are Rhea, Felix and Gilbert. And that's all I'm gonna say since this topic looks like the Tragedy of Duscur waiting to happen.

Okay, I'll admit tyrant's kind of a strong word. How's about we just say "crappy leader" instead? I think that's a fair description of her without being overly harsh. Ooh, Shamir (or even Catherine) would make a pretty interesting 3H rep! Especially since archers don't usually get the same attention sword-wielders seem to. The fact that she's a merc with no real loyalty to anyone's side certainly helps too. Seteth would be another good one, being a canon Wyvern Lord with his own unique weapon. But unfortunately I think you're right, they wouldn't choose a secondary character to represent the entire game.

Afraid I'm gonna have to disagree here, but I won't derail this into a Rhea debate. Just pointing out that she wouldn't be a good "neutral" rep because she's such a divisive character, just like Edelgard. Byleth's the safest choice because she's the avatar, so nobody really has any strong opinions of her either way. Sothis I guess wouldn't be bad either if they wanted to go for someone less vanilla than Byleth.

Uh... Rhea's a very controversial character, more so than Dimitri or Claude I'd say. Picking her over Byleth or the lords would piss off quite a few fans, myself included. Especially since her route's so insignificant and she's not even a playable lord. And I wouldn't exactly call her a "strong female character" either, at least in terms of selflessness or moral integrity. A tyrant's still a tyrant, regardless of gender. But to stay on topic, I guess if I had my preference, El and Dimitri would be the 3H reps. But I don't really mind Byleth as long as they stick with female Byleth for the most part. And like others have already said, Byleth's the only true "neutral" pick except for maybe Sothis.

Oh, I hadn't even seen the Linhardt support. I didn't use Lin enough on my first CF to get many of his supports (Got Byleth C and Petra C for some strange reason). I'll definitely go give it a look, though. Felix I assumed was just pissing about Dorothea talking to him at all, not so much her intentions. She's a lot more popular in the west, I think. You still see a few people here and there make sexist comments about her, but overall she's a very well-liked character in the western fanbase. I mean, characters have flaws. If Sylvain was perfect, you wouldn't like him. Nobody would, really. Flaws are what make characters human. I could go back to my list and name something flawed about every one of them, even Lysithea here sipping tea in my profile pic. But that doesn't make them bad people, just people. It's the kind of people they are, flaws and all, that makes us enjoy them as characters. I wouldn't throw Sylvain away just yet if I were you. Especially after all the positive things you've said about him, which are still a part of his character too. Even with Felix, I didn't bench him the moment I thought he treated someone unfairly. I saw his supports through to A before deciding whether I liked him or not. But in the end, it's totally your call. These are just my thoughts.

Tbh, I thought Seteth was just being a stereotypical overprotective dad who can't stand to see his daughter with anyone, not neccisarily anything to do with slut-shaming. Wait... when does Dorothea actually get slut-shamed in-story? All the Dorothea-bashing I've heard has come from the fanbase (Apparently, Japan hates her for not being housewife material.), not from the game. That's why I've got such little tolerance for it. Especially since most of it isn't even true.

A character can be extremely well-written and yet still come across as a giant douche to some people (Hello, Rhea!). And Felix may have his beliefs, which is fine. But he's openly hostile about his beliefs and shoves them down people's throats if they do so much as invite him to tea. He treats anyone whose ideas don't line up with his like garbage. And that's not fine, that's a scummy thing to do. And it's a part of his character that never truly goes away, unlike how Sylvain slowly learns to set aside his women issues and self-doubt to become a loving husband and father in his paired endings. As for Dorothea, she clearly stopped her advances after their C-support. She doesn't show any kind of attraction to him during their B convo. Hell, most of that scene is Dorothea calling him out for being such a dick to her. This isn't Felix fighting off unwanted advances, this is Felix harshly judging a woman be barely even knows (in other words, based on appearances alone, which he himself hates) and Dorothea having enough of a spine to point out what a massive hypocrite he's being. Which is a stark contrast to the cheerful, friendly Dorothea we see in her suports with others like Edelgard, Petra and Ingrid. That, to me, really shows how hard he pushed her. Allegra Clark's voice really captures the feeling behind Dorothea's words, too. Especially on that last line.

So could karaoke. I mean, can't you see it? Sylvain: Hey Tomas can I borrow that weird music machine you've got in your room? Tomas: Erm... sure. How'd you know about that?

Karaoke. No wonder Byleth's complaining about the noise.

I get that, tbh. I feel the same way when people make that assumption about Dorothea. I heard "having fun" and made the more obvious connection. But playing with their feelings actually makes much more sense for Sylvain, since he feels like he's doomed to end up in a loveless arranged marriage because of his crest.

Ah, sorry for the confusion. I probably just read to much into his comments about "having fun with the ladies" and assumed "having fun" meant... y'know. Thanks for catching that. I'll go back and fix my post.

I agree so much with all of this. I think the attraction to Felix, like a few others mentioned, is actually because he's an edgy tsundere who mercilessly rips everybody a new one. This makes him a sort of guilty pleasure character for some people, but for me it makes a lot of his supports very hard to watch. More so when it's with someone I especially like. I legit wanted to punch him in the teeth after seeing his C and B-supports with Dorothea. I felt so bad for her afterwards. I don't even wanna know what he says to poor Ashe. Or Mercedes, for that matter. Sylvain, honestly, is the kind of person I thought Felix would be when I first got the game. A laid-back "Tony Stark" type who probably thinks a bit too highly of his charms or talents, but who's a little damaged inside and would do anything for his friends despite his "I don't really give a crap" demeanor. I was wrong about Felix, but so right about Sylvain! He's such a sweet, caring guy deep down who unfortunately had to grow up in a house where the crest system was especially brutal to him. His flirting might be a bit annoying, but his supports are written well enough that his antics are genuinely fun to watch. I love how his C-support with Mercedes shows that even though he may have his personal issues with women, he's not a "shut up and cook dinner" misogynist (like Felix comes across as sometimes) and is more than happy to listen when Mercedes tells her story. And his supports with Dimitri and Ashe give us a peek into his brotherly, slightly playful relationship with them. The fact that he's an absolute beast on the battlefield is really just a nice bonus haha His paired endings are all so sweet and adorable, but my favorite might actually be his solo ending where he helps end the crest system once and for all so that nobody else will ever have to suffer what he went through. Like a true knight looking out for his people.

True, Weight -5 isn't a huge investment since I'm on NG+ and I can always just use it in the beginning until she gets Darting Blow. I'm hoping she'll be able to double with Darting alone though so I can use Uncanny too. I might stick with my Dark Flier idea then. The extra damage would definitely be useful but flight's just too good to pass up. The class outfit's also a lot more elegant and regal-looking than Dark Knight's, so it'll suit El much better. Thanks everyone for your advice!

I haven't heard such great things about Great Knight or Supreme Armored Co, tbh... Your're right, I completely forgot about Reason Prowess! I can definitely swap out Sword Avo for that. I don't really see the point of Aymr on a magic build though. I never actually needed Raging Storm outside of the final boss and Marianne's paralogue on my first run. And if I give her a crest sign, she's got Blutgang at her disposal on top of a Levin Sword and her spells. Those seem like better weapons in this case since I don't think Aymr scales off magic at all. Weight -5 was just because most of her spells are strong, but heavy. That's why I'm getting Darting Blow too. But if you think Darting Blow alone is enough, then Mag +2 is always welcome. Dark Flier does have Black Tomefaire, though. It just doesn't have Dark Tomefaire. Dark Knight's slightly better damage-wise but I'd rather have El be able to stay close to Flyleth in part 2 where there's a lot of maps that fliers can navigate more easily. I don't think Dark Tomefaire's worth losing flight over. Okay, I'm finally giving up on Sword Avo lol I've tried to shoehorn it onto enough builds now to know that it's not nearly as useful as it sounds. Guess there's gonna be lots of tea, charm boosters and hip-swinging in Linhardt's future haha That skillset seems exactly like what I'm looking for. You'd suggest I keep both Darting Blow and Weight -5? Or should I drop Weight -5 for Uncanny Blow? I can always boost her speed with items like I did for Emperor if she's having trouble doubling. Btw, I'm on hard, not maddening. Maddening sounds like about as much fun as Silver Snow, imo.

So I'm thinking of branching off into a different class path for Edelgard on my second CF run, since I went the boring Emperor route the first time. I've mentioned before that I'm not a huge fan of Wyvern Lords, so instead I've been trying to find a way to put that budding talent of hers to good use and do a magic-focused build. She gets some pretty nice spells from her Reason list, and even a couple of good white magic options even though I'll have to push her through that Faith weakness to get them. Nothing quite like what Lysithea or Dorothea gets, unfortunately. But still a strong list of spells: Fire, Bolganone, Luna Λ, Hades Ω, Heal, Nosferatu, Recover and Seraphim along with a Levin Sword+ and Hexblade. Now I've been shuffling back and forth on what her best magic class would be. But, leaving out Mortal Savant for obvious reasons (heh), it looks like she has three options that stand out from the rest: Dark Flier, Dark Knight and Gremory. Dark Flier's the class that jumped out at me first, since it's easier to get into than the other two on top of being a flying class. It's only drawback is the lack of Dark Tomefaire, so only Fire and Bolganone are getting a boost. But El might be able to get some pretty decent mileage out of Transmute between her own res and stat bonuses from being in a magic class (and likely Pegasus Knight as well). Dark Flier's high movement and flight would also make it easy for her to stay close to my Falcon Knight Byleth and build support. Dark Knight has both Dark and Black Tomefaire, but at the cost of flight. It's also a master class, so she won't have it as early on as Dark Flier. Overall though, she'll be dealing more damage with all her Reason spells while still having high movement and Canto. But I don't know if giving up flight is worth it, especially if Byleth's a flier and she isn't. And then Gremory has no -faire skills at all, with low movement and no Canto unless I give her the Fetters of Dromi. Even with double usage on all her spells, this seems like her weakest option. Going off of everything I just said, I'll probably build my El with Dark Flier in mind for the endgame. Something like this, while also getting her the Dancer cert. Monk > Mage (Master) > Pegasus Knight (Master) > Valkyrie (Master) > Dark Flier Which gives her Fiendish Blow, Darting Blow, Uncanny Blow, Sword Avoid +20 and Weight -5 if I buy back her A+ in Heavy Armor. And then I'll just hand her the Caduceus Staff and she'll be good to go. Valkyrie's definitely a bit out-of-the-way compared to something like Warlock but I'd rather pick up Uncanny Blow than Bowbreaker, since El shouldn't be engaging archers at all as a flier. How does this look for a magic El build? Does Dark Flier seem like the best choice for an endgame class? Any other skills you think I should get along with/instead of these?

1: Edelgard 2: Dimitri 3: Female Byleth (Male's just too "bog standard anime protagonist" for me.) 4: Dorothea 5: Ingrid 6: Lysithea 7: Marianne 8: Sylvain 9: Constance von Nuvelle! 10: Hubert Honorable mentions: Yuri. Was very close between him and Hubert for 10th spot. Lack of a fleshed-out backstory or a real character arc did him in though, which is a shame. Also Jeralt, Seteth and Rodrigue, the good dad trio. Dishonorable mentions: Rhea, Gilbert and Felix

Maybe a bejewelled pink wyvern, then? Gotta make that thing as fashionable as Hilda herself haha The fact that there's two healers though means that one of them can heal that turn while the other dances. Yes, you could have them both heal while a third person dances, but ideally that third person should be another healer/support of some kind (like Flayn, but she's not available on CF), not a strong offensive unit who's always better off just killing stuff. A dancer Linhardt/Mercedes wouldn't neccesarily dance every turn, either. If at any point you need them both to heal, that's still possible. Dancing's just another thing you can have one of your healers do as-needed, imo. It's not neccesarily that Dorothea's combat potential is greater than Mercedes's, so much as Dorothea's combat potential far outweighs her healing/support potential, while for Mercedes it's the other way around. Mercedes is the best healer in the game. Like you said before, her ideal class is Bishop. Bishops aren't meant to be offensive units, the class is built around healing and support magic. As impressive as Mercedes's reason list is, that's just not what she's doing as a Bishop. Dorothea on the other hand has four extremely useful reason spells, but a pretty barebones faith list compared to Mercedes. Her time's better spent fighting, not trying to be a middling support unit. As you probably guessed, my dancer choice here would be Linhardt (just gotta feed him some charm boosters). And then Gremory for Dorothea and Bishop for Mercedes. But again, that's just me. I know that not everyone shares the same opinion about dancers. At the end of the day, the choice is up to the OP. On that note, @Emmy, enjoy your CF run! :)

Yeah it's definitely not her best class. I was just pointing out that it's still workable with the right stat boosts if you're hellbent on using it (like me). Tbh, I prefer using stat items to fix certain weaknesses like movement and speed for El or strength for Bernadetta and in-house Ingrid. I'll also admit to being a little biased against wyvern-mounted classes unless it really makes sense for the character, like Claude or Seteth. Otherwise it's a bit jarring to see people like El or Hilda, who usually dress so extravagantly, to suddenly be wearing dull grey armor and riding around on a flying brown lizard. This is purely a Fashion Emblem opinion though, and nothing against Wyvern Lord as a class. As for choosing a dancer, I'd consider someone like Mercedes or Linhardt, who are already in a full support role and aren't likely to see any fighting, over someone with a lot of combat potential like Dorothea. But of course that's just my personal preference, in the end it's OP's decision.

Fair point. Personally I just think Dorothea's too strong a unit to be forced into a full support role. After all, if she's got those spells, she should use them. Sacred Galewind Shoes and speed items from gardening seemed to fix both these issues for me. She was consistently doubling everything (except swordmasters) in part 2 and had no trouble keeping up with the others movement-wise. I was actually pretty surprised by how much she benefitted from just a couple of stat boosters.