[The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya]

I loved it, although not for the humor. It's quite intellectually stimulating, and is fairly interesting.

As to how the episodes turned out:

1-6 in chronological order are the first novel. The other episodes are other random bits from the Short Stories. You can find all the novels in English here: http://www.baka-tsuki.net/project/index.ph...Suzumiya_Haruhi (I'm allowed to post that, right?)

And to people saying HaruhixKyon. NONONONONONONONONONO. Kyon doesn't like Haruhi. Because she's a total dick. She's hot, but a dick. The apparent Romance is Kyon just becoming a bit more accepting, and of course, him having to save them from evil dimension. That's part of the point of the show.

I guess it would be better to say that it's not SUPPOSED to be like other shows. It's supposed to be a lot different, especially when watched in broadcast order, which, in my opinion, is the superior method of watching, although it can be confusing at times.

EDIT: Itsuki is also GAY. As in homosexual. :P

[Rebecca]

Rebecca is cute. Neimi gets a pony upon promotion and Dorothy is just pretty awesome. You forgot Jamka, though :o

Jamka is hot stuff... :D If we're going for bow users in general, Kashim is definitely full of attractive. :D I could think up some more too.

[Debate on Fire Emblem debating]

• What went wrong?
  
• Why did it go wrong?
  
• What do you think about the concept of FE debating?
  
• What do you think when you see FE debating?
  
• What is Serenes Forest?
  

* We (debaters), joined this forum, and started trying to debate. However, we quickly came up at odds with some of the regulars here.

* At first, when we joined, we where unaware that the people here had no real experience with the General Debate Structure, and Debate rules. Soon after they where explained, people began to question they way we "stated opinion as fact". Our explanation was that according to the rules, and the definitions created by the rules, that it was fact. Looking at it from a non debaters standpoint however, would make it look very much like we where stating opinion as fact. Now, we who debate generally see any statements like "X character is best", or similar to mean that someone is attempting to prove that. Thus we attempt to begin a debate. This caused several problems where topics originally not intended for debates contained such statements, and debates where initiated.

* Fire Emblem debating is just like most things. Fun. Some people say it's pointless, but then again, so is playing the game. We enjoy debating. It also helps us form proper opinions on the game, gives us a greater understanding, and helps us all around. Take for example, a debate between Erk and Nino. This would generally be considered horribly one sided, by the way. In such a debate, we would compare good points of characters, and they're result, compared to the time and energy expended for their use, etc. We would eventually discover that you will, on the whole, have an easier time playing through the game with Max Ranks on HHM if you use Nino. Now, what does this tell us? It can tell us many things. We understand the game better. As for the Bike shed metaphor, it is not accurate. Now, for a bike shed, the color will make basically no difference in the end. It will have no affect on anything, even things like the ease of use of the shed. When we debate Fire Emblem, there IS a difference between characters, beyond personal preference. Their is a solid, mechanical backing.

* Sex.

* Serene's Forest is a site, and a forum. The site itself offers one of the most comprehensive collections of Fire Emblem Game Mechanics and similar. The forum is of course, a forum. It's a place for discussion. Nowhere does it say that ANY type of discussion is required, or prohibited, save that discussion of a certain game go in its correct topic.

[The Large Hadron Collider]

I see you are an extremely astute scientific observer. Would you care to elaborate on this astounding comment you made?

AAANyway, the LHC poses no real risk to the well-being of the wrold. The worst it could possibly do is cause a blackout in Switzerland because of the power it uses (unlikely) or explode doing a bit of damage to a mountain (very unlikely).

And it's worth it because we'll get a much better knowledge of the atomic system, and perhaps even find the Holy Greil od particle the physics, the elusive Higgs Boson! Dun Dah dah!

[Tana Vanessa or Syrene]

It does affect us when someone tells us our beliefs are wrong. That's like telling a religious person that God doesn't exist, or that their God is not who or what they think it is. Not that extreme of course, but it's on the same wavelength.

What's wrong with telling a Religious person that they're wrong? As long as you back it up and provide evidence.

The difference is that we can prove why Character X is better than Character Y, as we have sufficient knowledge. It's not possible to disprove any form of God, as there is not enough factual evidence.

I would argue that point, but this is neither the time nor the place.

[Priscilla]

I used to do that, until this one time I thought about having Priscilla as a mainly offensive unit as opposed to mainly a healer, and it worked out really well. So I've been using her as an offensive unit for a while now.

Hahaha. I did the exact thing with Moulder. I was like "Wait, he'd be a truly epic offensive Magic User", and then I used Natasha for Healing. It worked. Very well.

[Makalov]

" Makalov: Hoooweee! The Grand Temple! Luxury and...gorgeousness as far as the

eye can see. If a scoundrel like myself can find employment in a

place like this, I guess my luck hasn't abandoned me after all.

(Enter Ike)

Ike: ...

Makalov: But...for all the glitter and gold, there's an equal amount of

dangerous work. Hmm... That I could do without. Maybe I can use my

prone-to-illness ploy... Cough! Yes, I think I can arrange to work

about one out of every...five jobs or so! And now that I've a fixed

income, it's time to visit the local inns and see what games of

chance are about!

Ike: Evening.

Makalov: WHAAAA! You... Did you happen to hear any of that?

Ike: You were talking out loud. Loudly.

"

HOW CAN YOU NOT LIKE HIM? Plus, he's a Pally in PoR, making him totally epic.

[Tana Vanessa or Syrene]

If that's the case, then we must add "IMO" to every statement, don't we? Because if we don't, it's going to get shot back at us, full force. If it isn't clearly stated as a FUCKING OPINION, it means we're asking for a challenge!

If it seems like I'm overreacting, it's because I'm really pissed off right now and am having a difficult time thinking straight.

If it's really your opinion, and you really believe it then nothing we say should convince you otherwise, right? I mean, if it's something like "I like Lucius a lot." we're going to leave it alone. If it's something like "I think Lucius is the best Magic User in FE7" we're going to argue. In the latter case, if you really believe Lucius is the best Magic User it shouldn't affect you. If you MEANT the first, and said the second, then alright, but you can't blame us for trying to have fun. We can have fun when you guys talk about which character's you LIKE, and which characters you want to use for X thing, hell we even do those things ourselves, so the least you can do is let us do our thing.

[Tana Vanessa or Syrene]

Since when is an opinion a statement? Do we have to put "IMO" at the end of every post just to save our opinions from getting shot down by the likes of debators? Or are we going to get shot down for believing one character's better than the other? We don't care if we're "wrong", that's just how opinions roll.

Alright. If someone responds to you with a debate point, all you have to say is "Sorry, I meant it as an opinion, I didn't intend to make a point", or something.

[Tana Vanessa or Syrene]

No, you don't. You just have to accept the ways of the old members and understand what this place is. Is debating every fiber of your being? I don't think that is so. I think you're capable of discussing these games in a different way without changing who you are.

You are the ones who start it since you are often the ones who make a reply in rebuttal. You can't seem to accept that people will have a different opinion from yours, and you challenge them at every corner as a result.

This is different. You can't change your appearance to fit what everyone wants, so that is their fault that they are racists, not you being black. It is your fault if you walked in there knowing they would hate you and for no reason other than the fact that you can legally do so. This isn't a good metaphor, and I wouldn't use it to show my point on this.

SO, I have to do things your way? That is in fact what you're saying? That because you guys can't tale the change, we should just bugger off to where we came from? I really, really want to be nice about this, but it's really hard when all you guys say is that everyone hates us and that we're wrong for doing something we enjoy. We're not even hurting anyone or stopping them from doing anything.

[Your pet peeves]

I don't care if it was a joke, I just lost a lot of the respect I had for you as a result of this post.

What Hika said about the language thing. What is grammatically incorrect is grammatically incorrect, and that has been proven.

You're joking right? Or are you really that sensitive? Sorry I guess, but I mean, come on, everyone should be able to take a little flak, right?

[Titania is the best in the game.]

You can do all that, and that's fine, but someone's opinion on religion isn't really wrong at all just because you have a different belief. The same applies to Fire Emblem. Just because some people may think one thing about a character, it doesn't mean they're wrong if other people happen to think otherwise.

No, if someone believes that a Divine Entity created two humans (and the world) 6000 years ago, from which all humanity is descended, they are fucking well wrong. Doesn't matter if it's their belief. THEY. ARE. WRONG. I can prove it. W. R. O. N. G.

[Tana Vanessa or Syrene]

I can't agree that that's a good metaphor for this situation. Have you read what Ronan posted? The Bikeshed thing? I suggest you read the italicized lines at the top.

Just because people might not have a reason for hating what you've done means you should continue to do it? That makes no sense at all. Common courtesy says you should stop doing something if everyone around hates that you're doing it, no matter the reason, or absence of one.

So you're saying that if everyone around you hated you being a homosexual, you should stop, even though they have no good reason?

[Titania is the best in the game.]

I'm saying anyone should be able to accept that I think differently. That entire paragraph is the reason I hate debates. Why the hell do you play it one way and argue another? Anyone should be able to view these games however they feel without having someone tell them that they're views are wrong, like religion.

You mentioned Religion. I will expand on this. I treat this very much the same way. I don't really mind if someone has their own religious beliefs. But if they go out in public and say "God Created Adam and Eve, and all humans came from them", or "Evolution is false", or anything like that, I will not just accept them being able to say it. I will argue and tell them why they are wrong. They can still believe it. Same thing here. Except here, I'm just saying why one character is better than another. I play differently, because, well, it would be boring if I used all the same and best characters every time I played, right? But just because I don't always use certain characters, or don't like them, doesn't change them being amazing.

[Tana Vanessa or Syrene]

In one way, yes. In another, possibly more important, way, no. Let me low down the facts; I've spoken to regulars, and they hate what you debaters have turned this place into. Some people are generally avoiding the FE boards because they don't even want to see what's happening, especially when what should be a simple, nice, opinionated topic turns into a heated debate. What good is discussion if people hate how it's happening and what it causes?

Then people should calm down. If they hate what we've done, they have a reason, right? If so, then they should show us why what we've done is wrong. If they can't, I see no reason to stop.

Let me give you a metaphor thingy. We'll say that this is like a Souther State here.

Me, SS, and Tino would be Homosexuals. Now, you guys don't like/hate homosexuals, and think we should stop being homosexual. We give reasons why we are homosexual, but the only real reasons you guys give are "We've never been Homosexual and we don't like it.", or quotations from a bible or something.

[Titania is the best in the game.]

I don't care if they're "amazing" debaters. We aren't a debate forum, and a lot of the regulars don't want us to be, I know because I've spoken with them about it. No offense, but it's also my honest opinion that people should be playing the game more than they argue about it...

Personally, I consider myself an expert at theses games. Tino and SS just laughed after reading that. I may not be an "expert" in their way of viewing things, and I won't be proving anything to them, but I've been playing this series for about 5-6 years and I know I've become pretty damned good at it.

But the thing is, you're basically saying that anyone should be forced to conform with how you think. Playing the game and arguing about it are two totally different things. I play very differently than I argue. When we debate, we're not trying to tell anybody what they're supposed to play like. We're just having fun, and trying to get a perfect understanding of the game. If other people don't want to, then fine, but at least let us do what we enjoy.

You are probably an expert of strategy.

[Who is your favorite of the mage trio?]

Ilyana. Better in game, but also she is totally epic. I love her. SHE HUNGERS!

[Tana Vanessa or Syrene]

Well, we aren't other FE forums. Many of the regulars here didn't come from them, either. Some that did come from them generally don't bother debating here anyway. Some people need to understand who we are here.

So, are you saying that because you are a certain way, anyone joining should yield to your standards, and that things should never change? All I'm saying is that you should at least try to accept this system, because the people who developed it spent an incredible amount of time and thought in it. It's as close to being perfect as we can get right now.

[Titania is the best in the game.]

Then we just have different views of the game. No one person's way of viewing it is correct, and no one's is wrong. Just because I say I don't believe Titania to be the best in the game doesn't make me wrong, it makes me different. On account of not wanting to spout out the same things a fourth time, I end it here.

I'll post this again:

Just as something I'm going to say. On many other FE forums, a LOT of people have spent a LOT of time trying to form and create the best and most effective Fire Emblem Debating structure. All these things have been though over by an incredible number of people, and fully fleshed out. When we debate, we actually do it for fun. Because we enjoy it. When someone makes a statement, we try to correct it. There where statements of characters being of X goodness. Once someone sees that, they might disagree. They say why. It's the way we operate.

What I'm trying to say is that a lot of us are what could be called "experts". Tino and SS are amazing debaters. You may be different, but if you're going to post in a debate, please remember that some of the people here have devoted far more time and thought to this then you would believe.

[Tana Vanessa or Syrene]

Just as something I'm going to say. On many other FE forums, a LOT of people have spent a LOT of time trying to form and create the best and most effective Fire Emblem Debating structure. All these things have been though over by an incredible number of people, and fully fleshed out. When we debate, we actually do it for fun. Because we enjoy it. When someone makes a statement, we try to correct it. Sure, this was meant for who you like. But there where statements of characters being of X goodness. Once someone sees that, they might disagree. They say why. It's the way we operate.

[Your pet peeves]

I've got some more. :P

I don't have too many pet peeves because I'm mature enough to just ignore things that bother me. Although there is one thing that bothers me to no end, and that is when people start bickering over things that are unimportant (video games for example) like they actually matter. Sometimes it gets to the point where I can actually FEEL my blood pressure increase when that sort of behavior pops up.

- People that call themselves mature.

- People that get angry when other people are arguing about things they enjoy

Opinions stated as facts.

Most stereotypes. (Band is nerds, teenage girls are sluts, guys can't multitask, Indians are terrorists, etc., etc.)

Anime haters, just because it's anime.

Pessimists.

"This is obviously just a rip-off of This." <Especially when being compared to Star Wars. Everything may as well be ripped from Star Wars these days.

People who say "I could care less." It's "I couldn't care less" dammit!

- People who think something without any backing or proof is as viable as something with tons

- People who won't laugh at stereotypes

- People who like anime just because it's anime

- People who aren't Cynics

- People who won't recognize similarities between things

- People who won't accept the evolution of language

People who use the word 'gay' in any way other than happy

People who say 'I could care less' and not 'I couldn't care less'

Hundreds of other things

- As above, people who won't accept the evolution of language.

DISCLAIMER: I actually don't mean much of that stuff, but I couldn't resist. :D Not many things make me angry.

[THE UNOFFICIAL POLITICAL DEBATE TOPIC]

That was really nothing. A fair amount of "I'm right, can't be wrong" but there was little harmful to those talks.

Yeah. I have to say though, that that's just how I debate. I act like I can't be wrong, because it generally helps my point in the end. I'm not going to argue the other person's side for them. But I honestly try to listen to and accept what other people say.

[Biden clearly won]

I was pretty hyped up when Palin finally called Biden out about him living in the past after he mentioned Bush for the 20th time. He shut up about Bush after that.

Ironically, Palin wouldn't shut up about things that Obama hadn't actually done, or things that McCain had done as well. You could SEE Biden holding back against her too, because he said he wanted to be respectful in the debate.

[Lowen.]

As the term "best" is subjective, I can see where you're coming from. To you, the person who is easiest to use and still ends up great is the best. That's fine. To me, I don't really mind someone being difficult to level up so long as they turn out amazing, and Astrid's amazing is better than Kieran/Titania/Oscar/Makalov's amazing because she gets a better weapon to use and has enough speed to be a bigger threat for the most stat-intensive part of the game.

I personally find her EASIER to use than the other paladins because her innate paragon means she gains a level every 3 turns even if she only does 1 damage to the guy she's attacking, or a level every turn if she gets a kill. They all have about the same playtime, but she has the potential to increase the most significantly during that time compared to the others.

Playing through the game with who you want to use in the end in mind before you set out makes the game go a lot smoother. For one, anyone else becomes a throwaway unit. It doesn't really matter if they die (unless they have some sort of uber item they give you during a cutscene later). It also means that the ones you are planning on using will be able to get the majority of the experience out there meaning they will be significantly more powerful during End-Game than just going through the game using whomever is "best" for a task at some specific point and time.

In regards to Shinon, I think he's easily the worst bowman you can get. Leonardo has more intangibles going for him and Rolf is absurdly powerful.

ON TOPIC NOW

Lowen is great. He's the only non-Oswin/Hector unit with reliable defense gains, which is my most valued stat. Considering most the units are pretty average in every area, he doesn't fall too far behind in strength/speed/skill.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure we're both operating off of a different definition of best. :D Which is why I'd also say that Shinon is the best Marksman, since the other two are a chore to train, and don't make a big enough difference to justify it for me.

And I never let anyone, die, even characters I never plan on using. It adds to the challenge a bit.

[Tana Vanessa or Syrene]

Tana, obviously... Vanessa's nice too, but Tana is just that little bit nicer and better.

I've always had a thing for Tana, I don't know why. She usually performs just as well as Vanessa... And Syrene sucks.

Hard to say, but Tana gets my vote. She is usually a bit more reliable than Vanessa...

Do I even need to say the other reason?

You just don't bother with her, I guess. Tana, even in my hard mode runthrough without any form of abusing, I got her caught up to Vanessa in no time. Both her and Vanessa are very reliable. Before you continue about how her supports are better, I just don't give a crap about them, to be blunt. I will not agree on your comment that "She blows Tana out of the water for almost the entire game" no matter how much you try to debate it, because it just doesn't happen to people who know how to use a unit and are able to raise a unit quickly and efficiently.

Also, the topic asks which do we "like" more. We have our personal opinions and experiences with Tana, so don't go challenging them. It just pisses people off. You have your opinion that you like Vanessa the most, and other people like Tana or maybe even Syrene. This ends now, please. For this thread, anyway.

SS, do you see what you've done here? Isn't it fucking obvious we aren't big on debates? We don't give a fuck about what you have to say to "prove" who's better. Some will think Tana is better, and you have no right to tell them they're wrong.

Read the above quotes. Notice the use of terms such as "better", "best", "good", "More reliable", etc. That means that people are saying that they think X character is better. Why shouldn't he be able to debate? Now, if they had stuck to "I prefer", then it's fine, but as soon as someone says that one character is "better" than another or something, they open themselves up to debate. You guys seem to really hate SS for this, but it really isn't that bad.

Either ignore him, learn debating, or just avoid phrases like "best".