CindySnuts

Thanks for getting back at me! It's np, lol @LJ_Tenma I'm glad you like the ideas! And that Invoke is so flexible, loll. I agree actually, giving Alm a Genny-like early Invoker would be really cool, and that it should probably be Kliff! I actually /could/ see Tobin in that role, but overall I think Physic/Freeze is cooler for him. So for Kliff, I don't think any healers get more than three unique spells (aside from Delthea and Celica who both have narrative reasons for it), so we would have to replace one of Rescue, Rewarp or Silence. Rescue I think should stay, so Faye doesn't have to atuo-Cleric & keeps Alm's Villagers more flexible. Silence I still just think fits Kliff so well, but is definitely the least useful of the three, BUT it would be the only way to access it in Alm's route, and would be really nice for Nuibaba? Sooooo, that leaves Rewarp, which would be a bigger loss, but maybe a more balanced one? Rescue, Invoke and Silence is definitely a more conventional Cleric spell list, but I think any combination of the four would be cool! Oh, and as for which class his invoke should be, I think I lean towards Archer for him? If it's Alm's only early Invoke, then having summonable fodder that can safely poke from a distance and not just die as soon as they rush an enemy would not only be useful, but also unique! Plus they wouldn't be as squishy or low-movement as the Mage summon, even though Mage is Kliff's canon class & therefore might fit him better, I think Archer would be better overall! (Oh, and sidenote, yessssss Falcon Knight Invoke Conrad would be tight as hell!! I definitely love that idea for him!) As for the male Mages, yeah, I do see your point. Even though I tried to stick to most of the game's patterns as closely as possible, it would ultimately break them, but I feel like the reason they don't get any support spells in the first place is kind of the same reason they even have gender locked cleric in the first place, this whole "females are supportive and males are offensive" idea. So for that reason, since this is a gender lock free mod, I would make the argument that it would be okay to break the pattern, especially since that would also just make these units more interesting. Maybe even put one of those spells in their Sage spell list (although, Mage spells to Cleric spells aren't 1:1 anyway, like with Faye getting more WM spells as a Saint than as a Priestess, but only getting Freeze in Priestess). This change would just make them stand out more as units overall, since the three we are talking about: Boey, Luthier and Nomah, all struggle to stand out in their routes compared to their female counterparts. So I think adding a bit of utility to them would be great! This DOES make me want to rework Luthier a bit more though, since he could still be a late-game Invoker, but with the spell being so versatile, maybe he should get a different class to Invoke? Though, with Kliff, Silque, and Tatiana already, no matter what class he Invokes, would it just be redundant? The only way to make him stand out in this way, if we still want to give him the spell, would be for him to summon a magic class, and I'm thinking it should be... Saints. That's right Healers Summoning Healers. Having a summon that could run up and heal your front-liners while taking blows for them would be tight as hell, and then you could have funny situations where your summoned cannon-fodder hit Nosferatu 10 times in a row and is still kicking & healing your units several turns later!!! Or something cool like that! They should just have the generic spell list though, by GOD we've already done too much theory-crafting LOL (mayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyybe with Physic mayyyyybe, but in a Tatiana way, since their movement is still just 4). Dunno if it would be a little broken with Soothing Light though, but I think the squishiness of the class would probably balance that out, generally. Either Saint, or like, Baron Knight for Luthier, I think. UNLESS: if you want, instead of giving Luthier a new Invoke, you could just give Kliff Invoke/Rescue/Rewarp and give Silencing duty over to Luthier? Luthier is a bit more of a quiet bookworm, and I could see him wanting to Silence his sister too (maybe that even ties in with her ending of giving up her magic; Luthier was able to permanently Silence it for her!). As a final note, I think we SHOULD just give Boey the Warp, maybe even as a Saint as well just to balance him out compared to Mae, who is otherwise just a better mage than him. (Oh, and sidenote for Expel Boey, apparently all the units that get Expel in Echoes are all from the Novis monastery, and since he's from there as well, it would fit that rule too!) As for Conrad, if we give only Boey the warp, then by backup for him would just be Freeze. Physic/Freeze/FalconKnight!Invoke WOULD be really powerful & kinda take away Kamui's niche, buuuut it's either Kamui or Boey imo, and Boey is in more need of it and Kamui is almost never a mage anyway. Also Conrad is plot relevant, a royal, late game, and the brother of a Primary Protagonist, so I think it's okay to have him be a little OP. Oh, and for Nomah, maybe Priestess or Cavalier/ Paladin invoke? Priestess b/c Novis or Cav line b/c it's not present in any other Invokes as we have it so far. Or Villager Invoke just for the joke, lmao. But yeah, those are just my thoughts! I'm open to any more suggestions or followup questions for sure! It's your mod after all, if you wanna just give the male mages generic lists after all that's fine by me too, lol. I just love to support this kind of mod! But just to recap: Kliff: Archer! Invoke Rescue Silence OR Archer! Invoke Rescue Rewarp Luthier: Saint! Invoke OR Silence Boey: Expel Warp Conrad: Physic Freeze Falcon Knight! Invoke OR Physic Warp Falcon Knight! Invoke Nomah: Physic Freeze/Warp (depending on Conrad) Priestess! Invoke

Okay I actually posted this on the Gamebanana page for this mod, but I figured it would probably be a lot more appropriate on an actual forum, lol. Also sidenote, I dunno if you're still taking suggestions or actually still working on this mod, but I've been thinking about it alot and thought it would be cool to share regardless! So, for Alm's route: Gray: He isn't as magically minded as the other two, so I think he should probably get like one cool spell? and that would be it, kinda like how he gets Saggitae & stops. So, with that in mind, I think he should be the one to get Entrap! I was thinking either like, Cleric level 11, or Saint level 5, depending on how busted you think he would be with it. Considering its his only unique WM spell, I think its fair as a late level Cleric spell, but up to you! Tobin: Now Tobin IS much more magic than Gray is, and I agree that he should get Physic at level 6ish like Faye, but I think he should get at LEAST one more spell, and since few other units use it, I think he should get Freeze, and since every other Freeze user only gets it after promoting, he should get it at Cleric level 14 or so? I don't think it would be too busted to get too early, and would just make for more interesting gameplay! It would give him a real shot at being a good cleric choice, tbh. Kliff: Now, despite being the best magic user of the three boys, I think Kliff should be more geared to being a Mage than a Cleric, BUT that doesn't mean he shouldn't be a powerful Cleric pick. Additionally, since with this mod you might be incentivized to reclass Faye, I figured it would be cool to redistribute her two Cleric spells to the other boys, and since Tobin already has Physic, I think Kliff should get Rescue! Maybe at a little earlier level, like 7? Additionally, I want to give him Silence, since he knows so much magic he should be able to turn it off too, right? Only problem is balancing, I can't remember if Alm fights ANY Mages before Act IV, aside from maybe a couple random witches? So, if Alm DOES have a magic boss or significant number of mage enemies on a map in Act III, then I say that should be Kliff's other Cleric spell, maybe level 13? If, however, Alm's route does NOT have that, then I think Kliff would need another spell to seem relevant, and since two other canonically powerful mages get it (Delthea and Sonya), I think it should be Rewarp. PLUS it opens up fun Silque!Warp to Kliff! Rewarp + Rescue strats for Desaix's fortress, letting you get even more units up there! It should replace Silence as his Cleric late level spell, maybe 12-14 for balance, and then he would just get Silence at Saint level 5 or so, or maybe at Cleric 18, I dunno which would be better for him to get it in time for Nuibaba. Luthier: I love Luthier but he's kind of a loser, so I dunno how powerful his Cleric spells should be. As a mage, I think he deserves at least one unique spell as a magic support unit, but what spell should it be? If at all possible, I think it would be so funny to just give him like. Invoke. Silque's Dread Fighter invoke, specifically, learned at like a crazy high level, Cleric level 18 or Saint level 12 or something. Is it a bit redundant? Yes. Is it kinda cool tho? Also yes. Just like Luthier :) If it i would be too hard to implement in however (I dunno how they put in those three distinct invoke spells and I'm too afraid to ask), maybe just go safe and give him Entrap and/ or Physic? Just nice spells to have, kinda useful, you know the deal. Okay, well that's it for Alm's Route, time for: Celica's Route: Boey: Now, basing Boey off the Mae model for Cleric reclassing, he should get probably like one unique spell. My first thought is Expel, since he's afraid of monsters it would just work thematically for him. However, Mae gets Silence because Genny doesn't, and Genny already has Expel, so should he get another one? Well, mayyybe, but I really like the idea of him getting Expel like. Frame 1. Literally like Cleric level 1-2 or something funny like that, and so even if he got another spell I think he should still be able to learn Expel. As for that other spell, wellll, Celica's route doesn't get any Warpers, soooo, maybe Boey could fill that niche? Either him, or Conrad. Atlas: I agree that between him and Jesse, Anew should go to Jesse, since Jesse is closer to a Laslow/ Inigo dancer type than Atlas is, so, that prompts the question, what SHOULD Atlas get? Well, hes already pulling Rescue from Sage, but as a villager, I feel like he should get at least ONE other spell for the class line, just to set it apart, AND, since his Attack is so beefy, he makes a great healer, and what healing spell could have just a biiiiiit more distribution? Fortify. Yeah I think Atlas should get Fortify. Gives him enough of a justification to be used as a Saint at all, let alone one alongside Genny, it's unique for Celica's route, and kinda fits his allornothing spell style, like he gets Fire (basic) and Saggitae (maybe the best BM in the game) and that's IT, which is so funny to me lmao. Thought maybe he could do the same thing with healing magic too! All the Mercenaries should just get their regular WM spells they get from Sage, with the one exception of course being Jesse, who gets Anew. Maybe a little earlier than Faye too, since it's his only unique WM spell? I would be willing to go as early as Saint level 4-5, since I don't think it would bust the game to have a dancer before Act VI, like it is with just Faye. The only other two exceptions are Conrad and Nomah: Now they technically share a spell list as is, so you could either give them the same spells and call it a day, orrrr maybe just give preferential treatment to Conrad, being younger and more accessible and better all around, lol. But maybe that's just my Conrad bias showing through. Like I said earlier though, yeah I think it should be either Boey or Conrad (or Nomah ig) who gets Warp for Celica's route, and between the two, ehhhhh, it depends on if you want the player to have Warp for those Act II desert maps or not. If you are a kind and merciful god, then I'd say Boey, but if you need them to work for it, I'd say Conrad/ Nomah. I even think it would be okay to give it to Conrad AND Nomah at that point, because if you really saved up TWO pitchforks just for one more warp user at literal endgame???? Well hats off to you ig lol. Or maybe even,,, all three? For that very reason? It's not like pitchforks are easy to come by. So, in addition to Warp (Cleric level 12 lets say?) Conrad should also get (again if possible) Tatiana's Flier Invoke, to go with his new Flier baseclass. It would be a cool tool to use for Endgame, and unique since it would be your only upgrade to Genny's Invoke in that route. Maybe, Saint level 7 like Tatiana? Or even before he gets Warp as a Cleric, if you wanna be spicy. And I do! I do wanna be spicy. So Cleric level 9 let's say? Also, I want Conrad to be an overall competent magic unit, so for Good Measure I'll also give him Physic, just because the other two spells don't really feel worth it on their own, to me, and I'm generous. Cleric level, uhhhhhh 6? I can be flexible. Oh and same for Nomah. You could leave his invoke as Genny's little one though, that'd be funny, and it would complete the Boy Invoke trio of Luthier Dread Fighters, Conrad Fliers, and Nomah Little Soldier Guys to mirror Silque, Tatiana and Genny. So yeah! That's everything really, but just TLDR; (and c!=cleric & s!=saint just to be clear) Alm's Route: Gray: Entrap c!lvl 11 Tobin: Physic c!lvl 6 Freeze c!lvl 14 Kliff: Rescue c!lvl 7 Rewarp c!lvl 14 Silence s!lvl 5 Luthier: Dread Fighter! Invoke c!lvl 18/ s!lvl 6 OR Entrap/ Physic c!lvl 10 Celica's Route: Boey: Expel c!lvl 2 Warp(?) c!lvl 10 All the Mercenaries: The exact same as their Sage spells except: Jesse: Anew s!lvl 5 Atlas: Rescue c!lvl 8 Fortify s!lvl 4 Conrad: Physic c!lvl 6 Flier! Invoke c!lvl 9 Warp c!lvl 12 Nomah: Physic c!lvl 6 Soldier! Invoke c!lvl 9 Warp(?) c!lvl 12 So yeah, this is how I spent my evening! lol. The levels themselves were kinda arbitrary tbh, I dunno how they calculated the spell levels in game forreal, but the rough area of time one would get these spells is when I think they'd be the most fun to use, which is what mattered more than the actual specific in-game level correlated with in-game enemy/map levels, etc, so they may need to be reworked for game balancing reasons. But yeah! Get back to me with any comments or questions you have, I'd love for this to help out the modders! I don't actually have any experience modding this game myself/ balancing the game/ whatever, but I DO have several hundred hours in this game, and a hacked 3DS now, so I hope I could at least be of service, lol.