Blutritter
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Posts posted by Blutritter
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This is a very general argument for what is usually a very situational circumstance. As much as we like to use general arguments in FE, since it's incredibly simple, you have to realize that circumstantial arguments are what matter most. If it turns out that in 9 out of 10 maps, your dancer has to constantly dance a combat unit in order to reach the objective by a certain turn number, then those maps will not be favorable to healers.
In my recorded FE6, FE8, and current FE10 runs, I don't specifically recall any moment where I had to dance a staff user other than for a Warp.
Low turns incorporating reliable strategies.
This is speedrunning talk again. I'm for efficiency, but this is not what I'm about. Inflexible planning slanted toward what must be early promotions, possibly ignoring some recruits/village items etc. entirely and crap like that. I didn't field Sedgar or Wolf any more than I thought necessary completing Shadow Dragon Merciless, and I didn't bother with Maric or Linde at all past their mandatory chapters.
I'm migrating to Fusion to get a real discussion rolling in the near future - by the looks of it, not what their most recent tier list chatter for installments six through nine is founded or hung up on either.
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You cannot spam these staves willy-nilly for the EXP. Didn't you say yourself that you wanted to conserve Rescue, Hammerne, and Thief uses for later in the game? Furthermore, your first Physic is in chapter 7, and your 20/1 Malliesia is in chapter 8. And lastly, the EXP gain prorates as you level up anyway.
No, she's 20/1 at the very tailend of chapter 8, but eh. The first physic staff is dropped by a chapter 5 bishop.
Also, why would you dance a healer over a combat unit? A healer will not allow you to complete a chapter faster 90% of the timeHealing doesn't eliminate heavies on the throne/gate, melee does. Color me amazed.
whereas dancing a combat unit guarantees that you just got that much closer to completing the chapter.Except that's not going to be the case if the combat unit in question already received a beating from one or multiple silver weapons. It helps conserve a stray turn or two and for that matter, vulneraries.......which are costly for items that only restore 10 HP per use and aren't buyable at the convo, thus finite.
Of course, I knew this is exactly what you'd say. A tier list without a clear objective is innately more inaccurate.And what is this tier list's clear objective, anyway? Do explain. To show off on YouTube? Reloading until RNG favors a specific player critical?
I was civil enough to express my makeshift one as a mere overview of the opening half of the game where units are mostly unpromoted and gangups on single enemies are in demand.
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You must be some kind of leap to conclusion twit, Morgan. I'm not advocating staff spam, nothing in my posts connoted that. I would think the low charge amounts of some of them (including the hammerne) rules it out.
I don't see what the holy hell is the problem. Its not like anybody's going to tell you "No, you can't hang around #feto because you're a dumbass." Stop trying to force your goddamn way of doing things on everybody else; nobody wants to listen to that shit. As for the second point:
Defensive, are we? I don't know where this force vibe nonsense is coming from. Are dissenting opinions, God forbid, outlawed? You just look like the dumbass if anybody, an irrational and moody one.......I'm already bored reading your shit.
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Promoting Healers give the Mag advantage on using Heal and Physic staffs, and you can class Swap to Sage to get Extra Mag...
Well I did that.
True true, higher numbers are always welcome ASAP. The extra resistance a bishop has, ditto.
No. This has been said enough. No. Staff utility is useful yes, experience gain being larger is a big fat no on the other hand. In speedruns the experience tends to be alot less gained than normally.Don't bring it up again.
I guess you can't be reasoned with. Or won't?
Physic = 40
Rescue, Hammerne, Thief = 50
I've seen units who flail to equal any of the above by downing some promoted enemy, like a general. I'd sooner dance a healer than a melee unit because often the scenario dictates the melee is beat up - and in fact, there's going to be more than one of said melee.
I distinctly thought this wasn't being looked at through a speedrunning lens. Just not exceeding 5-30 turns depending on the chapter. I didn't even field a healer in 6 gaiden.
Somebody needs to make up their mind, quit kowtowing to some backroom message chat consensus they may have been part of or not.
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"Physical units are incredibly more versatile than magic units."
There's a reason I'm not campaigning Malliesia for number 1 character here, though she has an option to heal herself without vulneraries. Just among the units who prefer to stay magical Wrys, etc. never has that. And healing in general still contributes greatly because physical units like to get hit due to the Akaneian games' sorry avoid formula. More often than not, they get hit hard (most certainly before promotion with enemies packing silver galore) or have to knock down their dph with ranged weaponry whereas magical units can opt not to receive counters often and even eliminate the need for the physical units to be damaged on the player phase (setup for finishers). At any rate, EXP yielded by staves is still a lot higher accumulated or not for an individual unit than from combat, which translates into faster levels.
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Merged class sets.
Don't care about those atm. You're not taking into account the first completion of Lunatic which is still required to unlock them and is every bit as valid, besides.
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SDS consulted with me, Paperblade, IOS, and Colonel M in #feto for this list. I can assure you, we've probably put more thought into this list than you have into yours, considering it's, you know, 5 people to 1.
I don't know what kinds of turtling strategies you employ, but you are falling into the same trap that early FEDS tier list debaters did: healers do not level quickly under the assumption of efficient play. Furthermore, the gains from promoting healers are minimal. They have 6 move compared to promoted 7-8 move for most foot units and 10 move for paladins, FKs, and DKs. Good luck blitzing with general equivalent move.
Uh......like I said, no turtling was involved. All those heads knocking and yet you don't seem to realize how much staff EXP exceeds that of combat. Just speak for yourself. Those other superior movement classes more suited for enemy phase still can't use staves, and badly hurting units is not a rarity. BTW, you might as well be upfront with me and quit mincing. I know how heated your interest is in low turn counts, but this site isn't Speed Demos Archive, and this game isn't Shadow Dragon. No warp is received early, and you have to be somewhat conservative with rescue + hammerne because the latter vanishes after only 3 uses and I think it's given you're going to want the former to last as far as lategame.
Furthermore, the gains from promoting healers are minimal.Oh, please. Yeah, every bit as minimal as promoting some healer from any other Fire Emblem because healing + attacking <<<< healing as command options. Gains are gains, dude.
They have 6 move compared to promoted 7-8 move for most foot units and 10 move for paladins, FKs, and DKs. Good luck blitzing with general equivalent move.Meaning it's easier for them to reach some pure melee who might be retreating from elsewhere or can't subsist off vulneraries alone or only for so long.
Warren above Ryan, despite the fact that he is literally worse in EVERY SINGLE WAY?One more movement and higher bases for a ranged unit = worse? What makes extra chip damage for the prologue so much better than requiring mad attention to reach Warren's starting speed?
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This isn't the place to post your half-cocked cooked up tier lists.
It's not half-cocked, snot. For 50% game clear, it looks more sensible than your half-assed attempt. Hey, you're bringing it on yourself.
Also, healers aren't promoting. At least, they shouldn't be, and even after they do, it's not like they're seeing any real combat.OK, what is this bullshit? I don't know if you've noticed, but healers level quickly even without trying to drag out any chapters. When holding a defense on the bridges at both sides of the fort vs. promoted enemies on chapter 8 while trying to rout them efficiently (except Astram, I suppose), lots of healing is appreciated. Dancing plus vulneraries isn't going to suffice.
Desert mage: 28/0/12/13/13/0/4/4
Malliesia 20/1: 34/1/13/10/17/20/9/13
Her level could be viably higher. ORKO with 5 might Fire vs. 3RKO by Volcannon. As a bishop. When you have lots of people at single-digit or near zero HP after a counter. Furthermore, can go a round with a dragon knight from a swarm before and still live. No need for cover or to go hide away from the main group.
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TOP TIER
Paola
Unit I created
Catria
Sheeda
Malliesia
Feena
HIGH TIER
Sirius
Luke
Linde
Marth
Yumina
Oguma
Rody
Navarre
ABOVE AVERAGE TIER
Arran
Athena
Cecil
Draug
Minerva
Barts
Cain
Wrys
Frey
AVERAGE TIER
Wendell
Julian
George
Castor
Etzel
Maric
Warren
Radd
Caesar
Yubello
Cord
Bord
BELOW AVERAGE TIER
Samto
Norne
Roger
Ryan
Mathis
Gordon
Ricardo
Banutu
My current impression after four units were promoted at 20/0. Reclass duly considered. No abuse, favoritism or stat booster/orb fragments involved. I don't intend this to be a decisive ranking by any means, but it carries weight for what's got to be half of the gameplay when most of your army is struggling to varying degrees and hardly self-sufficient, so........I wouldn't make haste to discount it.
dondon: Healer growths kind of matter. Also ties into how they're going to measure up after promotion.
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They usually have a very good handle on the weapon triangle, some of the best defense you can find and a fondness for Great Shield (far from guaranteed to activate, but certainly a lot better than nothing as a defensive skill) to counteract their shoddy movement range, often lagging attack speed and almost certain impossibility to rescue/drop.
Has some to lots of merit as a unit:
Gatrie (RD)
Oswin
Tauroneo (RD)
Dalshin
Brom (RD)
Gilliam
Brom (PoR)
Xavier
Tauroneo (PoR)
Has very little or practically none:
Gatrie (PoR)
Douglas
Hannibal
Barth
Ardan
Wallace
Bors
Meg
Wendy
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Ichival = 'nothing' going for Brigid? Where's Jamuka's crusader weapon? 20+ base stats to cement his skillset's power when he's recruited? The user-friendliness of raising him in the wide open field of ch. 2 to inch that much earlier towards promotion? That's like claiming Sety is the clear-cut worst of the five sages in Thracia or something, i.e. absolute fallible drivel. I know full well which of them is getting an insta-click ticket into the last three chapters or maybe at all should I only find room for one, none other than Levin's boi.
Get your semantics in order or don't bother arguing with a long-time active debater.
Characters like Tiltyu and Ardan have 'something' going for them, even if they still manage to be limp dick bad overall. The former a viable way of killing at such a low joining level via Wrath, and the latter a significant base and defense growth.
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Cynthia really hasn't a clue, does she? This isn't advanced calc. It's called checking and contrasting your stats on both sides of this war game. If not, promptly brace yourself for your bullshit to be shot down. Those fighters also have lulzy displayed hit on a base Gonzales around 40. In his eyes, they really fucking suck. Anyway, none of this is delving into the fact he'll be able to one-shot all the reinforcement cavaliers near the end of the chapter with displayed hit verging on 60, and double the ones equipping javelins with that same weapon (hardly improbable since they travel in two packs, outrange the bulk of your army, and can more than hold their own against the bulk stat-wise....you want to lure each in close enough with all the houses and terrain cramping everything so every one of your units can go to town on them desperate-like the following turn).
She hasn't provided any sort of argument as to why Shin would be deployed in the previous chapter, 10, the only reason his level would be as high as that same number. Enemies swarm you for most of a map with a relatively cramped vertical path, the vast majority of which he can't counter on the enemy phase.
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And I think you two are crossing the border into whining about it. Gonzales is both double attacking and one-round/shotting very easily once he's recruited. The fact that both can't be said for most people starting on ch. 11 means that an accuracy price attached can be more than swallowed. 60s range with an iron axe without a weapon triangle advantage is not that agonizing to work with. I don't see anyone carping wildly about how Lance and Alan fare at hurling javelins accurately, which is not that well, since they don't have particularly high skill (Lance doesn't until after promotion) and get only half hit from their support.
Shin has a worse class - the fact that it's mounted doesn't change the fact it's still the worst mounted class. Not to mention a terrible enemy phase before promotion simply due to being locked to bows. Possibly afterwards if he's using a bow and nobody else is free to trade a sword to the top of his inventory (and he has to work his way up from shoddy iron/slim). This is like Percival/Miledy vs. Rutger only more pronounced.
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What is this nonsense about Gonzales having levelling and double attacking woes? If he has the former, it's far less than most other unpromoted characters since he does have the potential to kill in one round and/or shot in almost no time flat. I think some people need to actually look at their enemy samples some more.
I think Echidna can stand to drop. Her durability is terrible.
Why? She's going to be the only character who gets a quick S in axes apart from Gonzales and maybe Geese if he's used. If her durability besides the supports with Gonzales and Lalum granting her extra defensive benefits doesn't satisfy for some reason, she can hold onto Armads in open spaces and enemies might well refrain entirely from targetting her over.....say, someone with equal or possibly worse defense, like one of Roy's cavaliers/paladins. This applies as late as Bern.
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Thany has a much, much worse start than Miledy and never beats her in durability. I really can't see Thany beating Miledy by the time she shows up unless she promotes early (Western Isles + Early chapter axes = bad). Thany is one of the worst combat units in the first few chapters, getting 2RKOed and dealing very little damage back. Miledy has better durability and can use the Horseslayer to nab a few kills, and there aren't as many axe-wielding units later on so she doesn't have the same problem as Thany. Giving her the Delphi Shield in Sacae is a much better choice than giving Thany the Delphi Shield since almost everything tinks her.
Miledy does start doubling if you actually train her (45% Spd growth), and has higher STR growth as well. It will become more significant once both of them are doubling. I still can't see why Miledy's avoid is "mediocre" considering she doesn't get weighed down by Lances and has pretty good Speed to boot. Casters (excluding Aircalibur guys) don't mean instant death for Miledy as she has good avoid, isn't doubled and has high HP, and there aren't many casters in the game anyway. Thany however will face bigger problems with the much more common physical enemies, especially before promotion.
Also, supports don't contribute as much as combat utility. Miledy, like Percival isn't screwed for life if she doesn't get supports / give out supports.
Avoid and resistance are indeed part of durability, for your information. HP and defense don't seal the deal. It's being proven as we speak over at Fire Emblem Fusion that Thany's earlygame combat isn't anywhere near as bad as you make it out to be. And her durability can be worked around way easier than some nub like Chad or Lugh who can get one-shotted because she flies and she doesn't need to go near axemen to be levelled. If you won't believe the numbers, then at least have the pair to say you're simply biased against her. And if that's only earlygame.....Western Isles aren't axemen exclusive last I checked. Who cares about going to Sacae unless they somehow prefer to make their team look weak and cripple their Tactics?
I already pointed out Miledy's use of the horseslayer is not sound. She loses 4 AS. Go check that European HM sample site and do the math. If she misses, which is not out of the question, that's lame, she can be double attacked and that's also lame on ch. 13 when you have to face horsemen stronger than most individual unpromoted members of the team in droves.
Don't lecture me about Miledy's speed growth or training her. You sound like a fool. 10 constitution means she can be weighed down by a few lances and her speed cap is nothing to hype. I'm tolerant, and flight is hawt on ch. 14 and 14x regardless if you're Miledy/Tate and getting your ass quite booted performance-wise by a fully promoted Thany, so I'll go ahead and fully promote this wyvern rider, but that certainly doesn't mean she has this definite enthusiastic chance to be fielded every chapter afterwards. Her avoid is meh and her supports blow. Do you need it spelled out for you? Speed always hovering around 20, crappy luck and resistance, crappy/non-existent supports = might as well have 'spank me' carved into her wyvern if some promoted caster is in her range on enemy phase or she tries to one-round one on yours. I know between Thany and Miledy who I'd rather gamble on avoiding a counter entirely with a killing edge later on.
I don't know why you attempt to downplay the enemy caster numbers and the fact they like to move. Look, I can play that futile game too. "There aren't that many mercenaries/heroes/myrmidons/swordmasters in the game anyway" going by what must be your logic if I want to highlight one of Miledy's strong suits over Thany. In all seriousness, I'd say there are even a lot less. Oh, wait.....Miledy isn't someone you can count on to double attack them......anyway. What does Miledy specialize in fighting that Thany can't once both are promoted?
For that matter, what is special about Miledy's combat utility? At least Percival has the option of building a support with Lalum, a resistance stat worth something for melee and isn't trying to monopolize an item to clog his inventory so he doesn't get bruised hard with any bow sporting higher might than iron. And his avoid with or without a weapon triangle advantage is certainly higher, and his speed means only the handful of swordmasters around will ever escape a double attack from him.
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I guess this Merlinus kid is just obstinately dense on top of admitting he's an amateur.
Miledy does not 'WTFrape' enemies when she joins. She has double attacking issues even when she caps her speed. And that isn't until Bern. 23 is not that good a cap. Thany is feasibly 1 removed from that a third of the game ago.
Enemy casters do compose a fraction above decent of the enemy ranks and are often mixed in closely with melee, like in ch. 22. Resistance matters, regardless of how much you want to ridicule it vs. other stats. Every stat adds up, what does it matter if Miledy caps some of them? Congrats. So does Thany. Miledy's defense isn't bad but hardly clink-echelon and her resistance remains bad. Thany thrashes Miledy at one-rounding casters because it something she's good at whereas Miledy would much rather avoid fighting them altogether or likely waste a healer's opportunity to pitch in and help rout stuff, since her avoid is no better than mediocre. So much for personal versatility. Also something of a mark against efficiency on top of being a poor team player since she's not receiving/reciprocating supports, her list reads not unlike a scatological joke. Thany's doesn't. Ellen - very arguably superfluous and the affinities don't mesh well. Treck - not hard to fall into obscurity even when levelled either and the affinities don't mesh well. Lugh and Zeiss - meh. No need for little babies or fellow defense-tuned flyers who join 2/3s into the game at 7/0. Yodel - 6 chapters left and also sucks, even more.
Apart from perhaps nomads, which have long quit existing unless you're gay for Sacae for some reason, I don't think Miledy wanting the Delphi shield more than Thany when she's promoted warrants any kind of analytical explanation, because bowmen are like casters and can't always be outranged and delivered first strike upon - the enemies are not that lame. That description of mediocre for her avoid is probably too kind considering the enemy stats, in fact. 10 constitution is even kind of mediocre when it comes to swords when your speed only caps at 23.
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THAT SHIT WAS NEVER OVER.
Besides, this is comparing two routes, not characters. And Thany really IS just lol; good luck trying to praise her over Miledy.
Uh......except Thany always has a resistance stat that makes a difference against everything not named Fenrir or Aircalibur, a plentiful avoid and attack speed lead on top of that even when her low constitution figures in, an actually practical support list, and an affinity that raises her attack.
It doesn't matter if her Western Isles fielding is largely consumed by visiting villages. Flight is insurance against having them destroyed that's a large step up from simply being mounted, which Miledy isn't around to do and isn't given much opportunity to stand out for after she joins.
Come ch. 13, Thany's wrapping up her unpromoted level quota and can use the horseslayer to one-shot some cavaliers without getting doubled by any horsemen while Miledy has double attacking problems out the wazoo, *gets doubled* and certainly hurt by some cavaliers and nearly one-rounded by paladins with the horseslayer (8/9 AS, pfffft) and that's pretty meh considering she has notably shaky hit with the thing considering her HM boosts.
It's very feasible for Thany to reach 20/1 at the start of Nabata, so she's not far behind in attack power per blow at all, supporting Dieck/maybe Tate, can tote any lance she pleases and getting a headstart on her sword rank while Miledy's struggling to double things in the desert or banking on crits from a killer lance in a mad rush to level up and probably wants to wuss off to the lowly populated northwest, all so she can promote after 14x.
The lulz is on you. If anything, Miledy's the overrated one and looking at the overall picture I'm not seeing this tier gap between them. If you don't know or care to test your HM, you might want to kindly STFU on this matter.
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Roy is hardly durable against horsemen, flyers (definitely wyverns) and the even speedier enemies.
The Sword of Seals is good, not Roy......that is, if you consider a legendary weapon you need to repair before long if you want Roy to be of any use to be worth a whole lot. Roy starts out with copious doubling and if not, one-rounding issues on ch. 22 because he's only 20/1 while the rest of the team is in all likelihood well into the second half of their promoted levels and creaming him all over in stats. So he has to be babied in part even with the Sword of Seals.
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Ward, for one, is horrible. His speed is always crap even for a fighter, or for someone who doesn't trade it in for lots of defense. He'll be a fat sitting duck for a considerable number of enemies on both sides of the promotion line. All he has for real durability is HP which gets lost with ease, and then whatever he gets from supports through an admittedly nice affinity to a much lesser extent.
I guess you could say he's good for damaging the incredibly slow shit like soldiers and knights early on, okay, when he's forced and then until about chapter 8, but even then not so good at landing hits with the WTA. And then he'll just plummet hard from there in comparison to lots of other people moreso than on his own. I'm wondering what he's doing any higher than right above Douglas......
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This isn't rocket science. Micaiah has an armor/horseslaying weapon that targets the lower defensive stat, an automatic A support, gets staves in second tier, Sacrifice for emergency, and is forced in a clunky team for 75% of the game. Soren is noteworthy in no way among a relatively strong team, especially since he's second tier yet almost never doubles unless Adept is triggered - it's very easy for him to get shut out of the team after the few maps he's no longer forced.
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Sigrun is pretty terrible; Ranulf, Soren and Edward are meh and have no business being part of an efficient core team.
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lord - Sigurd
sniper - Faval
wyvern lord - Haar (RD)
hero - Ike (RD)
sage - Sety
rogue - Lifis
general - Gatrie (RD)
bishop - Saphy
valkyrie - Nanna
warrior - Boyd (PoR)
berserker - Gonzales
ranger - Shin
falcon knight - Fee
paladin - Titania
swordmaster - Shanan
druid - Salem
refresher - Reyson
laguz - Tibarn
dragon - Nasir
forest knight - Delmud
great knight - Franz
special class - Leaf
honorable mentions for good measure: Ephraim, Shinon (RD), Othin, Levin, Parn, Tauroneo (RD), Serra, Clarine, Nolan, Geese, Gerik (but should be a hero instead), Tanith (PoR)/Elincia (RD), Seth, Lakche, Canas, Laylea, Nailah, ....., Fergus, Lex, Lachesis respectively.
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It's still the fifth installment.
'Fake' looks like iffy wording. It manages to be a lot more creative with its difficulty and for that it deserves credit, given how capable a lot of the characters are in that game as opposed to the other two vote choices......all in spite of most statistics capping at 20.
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Sorry, I'm not convinced. You're going to have to define 'most enemies'.
If anyone has to do any convincing, it's you and that's not happening with what you've said so far. Like he said, many enemies in this game are packing hammer and rapiers.
So you just regurgitate what he said. Brilliant.
I don't know if anyone's noticed, but hammers aren't one-shotting generals as consistently as horseslaying weapons or ballistae are one-shotting mounted units/flyers. And free-roaming promoted enemies with armor-effective weapons aren't showing up as early. Furthermore, hammers have a measly 45 hit, the enemies that carry them are often the very slowest of types and kind of skill-challenged, they like to get AS-screwed with them, brigands don't especially favor them, the mountain thieves on ch. 19 don't even attack on their phase.........
In an open space, enemies are fond of attacking units who can't counterattack or pose a ORKO threat to them, and take cavaliers: they are no exception. Cavaliers are fond of complementing rapiers with javelins. i.e. Dalshin can deal with the ones in ch. 7 in a formation of other units by having a hand axe if not a halberd equipped on their phase. Most anyone locked to swords, meanwhile, has no answer to a halberd equivalent and is fighting in vain over anything ranged. There's simply no guarantee the remainder with long lances would even attack Dalshin, up to the ones with as high as.....9 strength&AS parameters. They're easily satisfied with aiming for a less sturdier unit like Leaf, with lower accuracy, as long as they can take off as much of his HP with a long lance or more as they would whittle down Dalshin's with a rapier. A long lance not only has ~ might as an armor/horse-striking rapier, but the average Leaf doesn't hit half of Dalshin's base defense by level 10 or so - not at all an implausible scenario.
You keep them out of range of hammers or send them down another route on the map as you would keep some magician you're raising out of range of an enemy that downs them in one hit, or several that can easily overwhelm them. Or have to gimp some mounted unit or flyer you're raising by dismounting them because of horseslaying weapons/ballistae. Is it such a huge difference? 5-6 movement isn't as much of a problem as you're making it out to be because units with more of it tend to be auto-gimped indoors and tend to be very much killable if they try to be gung-ho with it outdoors.
Thus you keep them out of range of many enemies. Hmm, a combat unit kept away from combat often... it's bad enough that they have doubling issues.
I went over the many enemies nonsense, and can go over it some more. Yeah, doubling issues they can work around in a breeze to the point they're completely moot due to the abundance of slow enemies, Xavier's skillset, certain weapons not in high demand by many units......are you being deliberately dense?
H3 (Lunatic) Tier List
in Fire Emblem: Heroes of Light and Shadow
Posted
Whoa, whoa......you think I'm the one asking for my cock to be employed like a pacifier, for all heads to bow in my direction? Nor have I been the aggressor in writing here. Nice to meet you too! Say Spoon, talking to oneself is a bad habit.
The close-minded elitism on some of these boards......sick.