arvilino
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Posts posted by arvilino
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It's not wrong to like Fates. I like games with underwhelming stories, too (like Dragon Age 2!). There are more things to it than just story.
But it's not wrong to be criticize and be disappointed in it, either. It doesn't mean their expectations are "unrealistic" or the fans are more "level-headed" than the detractors, especially when they've explained themselves pretty well. Story and plot are more relevant to roleplaying games than other genres (for example, I don't expect a Mario game with an evil versus gray storyline because lol).
This is sounding more and more like "how dare you not like something I like/want to like!"
By level-headed I meant the reviewers, the people coming into the game from an arguably less biased standpoint than a fan or a detractor.
The thing with games like these is that the detractors do have their reasons, fine, but it's the ever more common cynical method of taking a few choice parts to criticise and blowing them out of proportion making the whole game out to be just the parts the person doesn't like. It usually turns into an echochamber where the suggestion the story is ok, good, or "not bad" is treat like it's more extreme than saying it's utter shit.
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I generaly don't trust "traditional" games media any more. Randos on youtube tend to write better, more ballenced, reviews (and are less likely to be in bed with the developers.)
I should point out that awakening also had interesting ideas with a lot of potential that was totaly squandered, so i was not expecting anything
I also never belive hype simply because the information the publisher makes avalible before release is intentionaly biased to encourage preorders.
From what i read, reviewers tend to not focus on story so as not to get blamed for spoiling things.
Professional reviewers still comment on story and have all other recent games to compare it to. For example Mario & Luigi Paper Jam's story was brought up in a number of reviews where reviewers were criticising it specifically for the story. Considering recent games like Undertale, Last of Us and all those Walking Simulators being held up for storytelling the standard reviewers have is still going to be there when they're playing Fire Emblem.
If Fates genuinely had a bad story compared to what else is on the market or other Fire Emblem games it wouldn't get away with it. If someone was hyped into thinking a story would be mindblowing and it wasn't for then, it doesn't make the game's story bad for simply not reaching their unrealistic expectations. The level of hyperbole that some people have around the story is frankly ridiculous especially around the fantastical elements to the point it's no surprise that those coming in with a level head are atleast fine with the story and or even think it's great.
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Or maybe (a) the localizers did a bit of improvement on it and (b) the reviewer's don't have high standards for writing and didn't think about the story too much and © some of the complainers are those who really didn't like RD for it's story?
Or maybe the story is better than what it's being given credit for, the complainers are grossly overexaggerating and the reviewers standards for writing is just typical for what's expected.
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Pretty great reviews so far, I was thinking they might have went a little lower because its 2nd Fire Emblem on the 3DS and thought reviewers might not appreciate the improvements as much. No surprise that in the end the story is getting positive reception along with the gameplay.
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Actually, I was referring to the Birthright (Hoshido?) one which is significantly more awkward: "A handful of female characters are depicted wearing low-cut outfits that reveal large amounts of cleavage; in one cutscene, the camera pans up a female character's body, lingering on her cleavage and buttocks."
I haven't played the game at all yet, so someone mind telling me who this is referring to?
The scene he's talking about is during Chapter 13 in Birthright where you fight against Camilla, that cutscene plays at the start of the chapter.
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Oh gosh, that Camilla scene is part of the rating. I'm not surprised, but I think it's funny!
The devs revealed that in Japan that scene is the only reason the game(s) got a C(15+ rating). Though it would be a bit funny if Birthright and Conquest had ended up with different ratings.
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^Personally I don't think a time skip would work with how the mechanics are now and the more equal character representation since any time skip would remove the ability to make the pairings at your own leisure. Imagine if by chapter 13/14 of Awakening or Fates you were expected to have everyone paired, it'd be unreasonable without grinding. Even Genealogy's 1st generation you had a grand total of 7 Females(Excluding Diedre and Ethylin) to pair and 13 males(Excluding Sigurd and Quan) to pair them with and mechanics where characters could marry within the span of 1 chapter, not 4 and even then you have to go out of your way to not play normally to make many of those pairings happen...in the 2nd gen I hardly get any marriages since there's little reason to have characters glued together before they're married.
As a game mechanic I think Fates has implemented it the best in pairing, the way you recruit the children characters and how useful the children are when they are recruited(I'd argue the strength/level/skills they have during almost any point of the game is actually better balanced than most FE games including the 1st gen in Revelatons) which can only really be accomplished by having the marriage/children being an optional side mechanic that you can do anywhere between the start of the campaign and the end.
My opinion of a dimension aging the children rapidly is that it's odd but it's a fantasy RPG the genre exists for worlds that allow unrealistic and out of the ordinary events. One of the most highly regarded JRPGs has a very similar plot point to age one its characters.
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Okay, 2nd highest-rated exclusive 3DS game.
I don't see anybody giving Awakening a 9/10 now; the game isn't near perfect (as 9/10 suggests), what with some glaring flaws.
"reviewers are never obligated to give games a higher score (unless they are being bribed)."
And you think running a bunch of advertisements for the game on that site isn't a form of bribery? How do you explain the bajillion 9/10-10/10 ratings CoD gets?
I haven't seen any web advertisments yet, so here's hoping for fairer reviews for FE14.
Fire Emblem Awakening averaged 92%, there hasn't been a Call of Duty since Fire Emblem Awakening released that averaged over 83%. Watch_Dogs and Destiny which were both being whored around out as "The first true next gen game" winning hundreds of awards and nominations got 70s.
You seriously can't think Nintendo spent money bribing people to think what was considered potentially the last entry in a dying series to have one of the highest review scores in the 8th generation. Those people legitimately thought Fire Emblem Awakening was that good.
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Just 2 days before it releases...that's not much time. Wonder if they don't have much faith.
I think if they didn't have much faith they'd embargo until the release date. 2 days before is likely to convince fence sitters to buy or decide against the game depending on how well it reviews.
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Speaking of which, Anankos sends people with dragon killing weapons to kill Kamui, but did he know that Kamui would become a dragon? Wouldn't it have just been easier to kill Kamui as an infant rather than spare him X number of years for an assassination plot he probably wasn't needed for anyway?
The way Garon talks about the sword it is possessed by something kind of like a genie lamp. The sword has a mind of its own shown when it pulls Corrin into the Infinite Chasm when Hanz fails to drop him or her in. So Corrin's role may just be essentially smuggling the assassin(s) through the barrier since he/she has no aggressive feelings towards Hoshido.
The cursed sword Ganglari… It is a sword in which a hidden otherworldly power resides. -
As far as I know, Garon gives Kamui a vague ass answer at the end of the Hoshido path … something about using them to kill Mikoto. Except even before the route split, he tries to have Ganz kill Kamui in chapter 3, so this doesn't really make sense. Let's just say that it's never properly explained and call it a day.
Chapter 3 is a set up to get Corrin to Hoshido it's just not apparent until later because Garon is intentionally deceiving Corrin for the first parts of the game to make sure he/she goes to Hoshido with the Ganglari without realising Garon wants him/her to.
Garon's plan to kill Mikoto is to make sure Corrin is ready to fight(Chapter 1) and hands Corrin the Ganglari and makes sure he can face Hoshidans(Chapter 2) then he sends Corrin to an "abandoned" outpost at the border between Nohr and Hoshido with Hanz to intentionally cause a fight(chapter 3). Corrin wins and but is going to be ambushed by more hoshido forces lead by Saizou, defeated and captured(and inevitably recognised)...except the Nohr siblings save him. Hanz is there as a back up plan to both make sure the battle happens and to make sure Corrin goes to Hoshido by knocking Gunther and Corrin into the infinite Chasm(which is also connected to Hoshido)...except Corrin defeats him and makes him retreat, but ends up in Hoshido anyway.
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The bubble curse could have been an interesting addition if Azura (and the Awakening trio) was shown repeatedly trying to get people to learn about IK but failing for whatever reason. Instead Azura is extremely passive and deliberately secretive which has serious consequences for Hoshido in Conquest. There were many chances for Azura to get at least Kamui to IK but she doesn't even try. The plots of two 3rd of the game are a (negative) consequence of Azura's inaction.
Indeed. The blood pact was extremely contrived but the results of it were interesting at least. I wouldn't have minded the blood pacts as much if they were better explained/foreshadowed.
There isn't much point in Azura attempting to get Corrin to Valla in any route but Revelations since neither of those are her plan in either Birthright or Conquest, it's only Revelations in which Corrin makes a suitable decision for it to happen. Plus all three endings are overall positive resolutions to the situation with sacrifices that the game and characters do acknowledge but ultimately resulting in peace.
This is because in each route Azura goal is attempting to fulfil one of the three Anankos' prophecies of his defeat, in the song she sings.
I mentioned it in regards to Thane's post that telling the characters is just a liability because in Birthright or Conquest most characters learning about Valla wouldn't effect much and worst case a risk that could ruin any chance of a positive resolution. e.g. if Corrin, Xander, Leon, Takumi or Ryoma mentioned Valla outside of it and vanished into bubbles or someone didn't trust them and ratted them out during Conquest. In short loose lips sinks ships and what the characters learn is what they need to know during each route to achieve peace.
I think the way this was handled is a good choice in each main game story since, they could easily bog down the game if they loaded every route with a ton of tertiary information and a tell-all from Azura in routes where the information isn't as important.
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How about it's the only reason why there's a "conflict" in the first place, thereby invalidating two thirds of the game. Not to mention it makes Azura, Severa, Inigo and Owain look like utter morons for knowing about it yet doing less than nothing to inform everyone else and happily indulge in invading Hoshido; it's by pure chance Azura decides to indulge Corrin, and we're never given a reason as to why she doesn't just slap people across the face and drag them towards the valley/lake in Nohr and show them Valla.
That curse and Hydra completely remove the human element from the story, since no one in Nohr or Hoshido has any reason to fight, which means there's absolutely zero complexity to the entire story.
The idea that they have no reason to fight just simply isn't correct, both sides do things that would make the other hate them it's been mentioned a lot in this and previous threads but it's formed around the notion the war starts during the game as opposed to before.By the start of the game both Hoshido and Nohr are at war and are enemies. Garon's original personality change was from factors outside of Anankos(considering his posession of Takumi was about his anger and amplifying it, something had to be some intent or ambition there to begin with which is supported by chapter 28 of Hoshido).
Revelations also shows that most characters aren't immediately ready to trust the claim of a "true" enemy, curse or not revealing it to anyone who doesn't trust her on that side for her would immediately end any chance of the conflict stopping, same with if any one they showed ended up turning into bubbles. It's the same with her original plan. if the chapter 14 dance/song worked on Garon then anyone else knowing would just be a liability, no one needed to know in order for her to attempt the plan. There certaintly complexity in even this element since the route determines how much Azura believes she needs to tell other people and who, like why she's ok showing Leon the Orb in Birthright but not Nohr. Just saying there isn't complexity doesn't mean there isn't, hell I recall an early criticism was that it was too convoluted yet apparently the exact opposite is true now? Not in the slightest.
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It's a stupid plot device. More so than the Blood Pact could ever hope to be. That's what's wrong with it.
It's a more solid plot device than the two other examples I gave with the reasons I provided, especially the Blood Pact and it's certainly less contrived than a plot device that sets itself up to fail.
Anything other than "It's bad because it's bad"?
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Sorry for going off-topic a little, but our hopes of the localisation doing anything major to try and fix the story have been dashed.
On the gameXplain Revelation stream, Azura mentions the Valla curse. You know, the one that kills you if you mention Valla outside of it.
I never really saw what's truly wrong with a plot point of
Hidden Kingdom protecting itself with a curse that helps keep itself a secret and Mikoto a princess of that Kingdom to have a similar effect with Hoshido's barrier
- It's a plot device with a purpose that would be understandable even without the games plot
- A known source of power behind it
- Other examples of similar power being utilised from the same source
- How a whole kingdom could remain secret to pretty much everyone who isn't from there, even if the game's story was completley different the curse would still have a purpose.
- Anankos' power
- Mikoto's Barrier and Anankos who taught the people of the Invisible kingdom
To contrast it with other things in Fire Emblem. There's the Blood Pact where it literally comes out of no where with no real explanation or precedent and has great power with no definable source. The way the original Akanenian Fire Emblem worked before Awakening, Which is from Naga
but the requirement to have the Orbs in it combined with the value of the orbs and the power of the Dark Orb basically makes the events of FE3 inevitable because it gives a lot of reason to remove the Orbs and weaken the seal.
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But what does "at war" mean if Nohrians can't enter Hoshido? Unless Hoshido is leading armies into Nohr, it's hard to describe their conflict an open war. The shocked reaction of the Hoshidans at the infinite chasm in chapter 3 seems to indicate that they don't regularly come into contact with Nohrian soldiers.
What it means is at the very least the war started before the game and on-going. Chapter 3 the Hoshido forces were surprised that the Nohr were showing up around a specifically agreed non-aggression area. Otherwise Hanz/Ganz attack on the Hoshido solider at the start of Chapter 3 would have triggered/escalated the war.
I thought SlimeGaron was using the fact that Nohr was lacking food as an excuse to hide behind for their invasion of the bountiful land of Hoshido. So it could be that the characters are also helping the invasion to help their country. Though SlimeGaron is blatantly stupidly evil to the point it's hard to believe he be able to control the masses even with propaganda. So I find it more likely that the writers were either complete morons, or it's cultural posturing, which I noticed in small doses in Japanese media before. (Ex. Backstory of Heavy Object, Japan's the nation who creates the titular superweapon, Azure Striker Gunvolt: Fleeting Memories, talks about how psychics destroyed the world except for a "island nation in Asia", Gate, an anime based off a story written by right-wing nationalist, ) Though the question is whether this trend is all in my head, or if Japan is getting a swelled head.(Probably the former) But yeah, it's really suspicious how the story centered on a kingdom based off a real-life foreign nation was the one with the most problems.
The events that occur before the start of the game are the reason Nohr had assasinated Hoshido's king and stolen Corrin, Hoshido had kidnapped Azura and Shenmei had disappeared during the conflict. Nohr using Fuuma to strike at Hoshido,etc. It really didn't matter what culture either was.
Garon didn't really need an excuse to invade Hoshido by the time it happens in-game because both sides had launched out attacks on each other, kidnapped royalty, etc. Hoshido were already Nohr's mortal enemies regardless of how the conflict started or who was responsible for what.
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I think it's mentioned they have occasional border skirmishes but Nohrian forces can't enter Hoshido proper until after Mikoto dies because of her magic barrier.
Garon tells Corrin is that they're at war with Hoshido during Chapter 2. With only Mikoto's barrier meaning that Nohr couldn't invade Hoshido, the war wasn't triggered during the events of the game.
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Does it matter how they are being led? Macbeth kills unarmed Hoshidans and Xander does not yeah, but does that make him attacking an innocent nation and killing it's innocent people not a bad thing?
And then at the end of the game he's telling Hinoka how sorry he is for all the lives they've taken and the game tries to show him as a good guy who's all about peace.
I'm not saying him attacking Hoshido is right since I'm talking about his characterisation. His involvement in the war something reasonable within his characterisation, he saw Hoshido ultimately as the enemy in a war they've been engaged in throughout the story until the end in which case Nohr and Hoshido end up as allies.
He's a character who'd wished to fight what he believed to be a just war with his enemies, but also work towards peace alongside his allies. He hoped in vain that resolution of the conflict would change things back to normal which backfired against him as he was overlooking Garon's/Nohr's atrocities along the way. So in the end he did what he thought he believed was right for true peace both while fighting on the side of Nohr and when apologising for Nohr's actions.
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Look i see what you're saying, but it's simply not executed properly. If the writers wanted us to see Xander as someone who is ok with these actions, fine. I would dislike his character, but i wouldn't call him a bad character.
But the way the game is written it's like one moment he is fine with invading an innocent country, and the next moment we should see him as a peace-loving guy who is against stuff like that. The writers should have stuck to one viewpoint and rolled with it, not go bouncing around from one to another. And it's not just the case with Xander only, it's the case with the enitre Nohr path.
That next moment is the epilogue of the game when Nohr and Hoshido are allies. Throughout the main story he's fine with being at war with Hoshido and see them as his enemies and he never openly regrets fighting against them, his biggest bugbear during the war(which ends after chapter 25) is that he was disgusted the way Iago's side of the Nohr forces were being lead but he was never against fighting a war against enemies.
If Iago didn't carry out cowardly tactics, Xander as he is in the game would likely have had absolutely no reservations at all against an honourable war until the chapter 27 reveal. I don't really understand how you'd see it the way you do in the bolded text.
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He would probably be ok with his father eating babies for dinner, until he finds out he's a slime monster. Cause then he needs to be stopped!
lol.
Garon is a cruel ruler during the events game but really nothing on that scale actually really happens. It's not like say for example Sacred Stones where Grado sets monsterous spiders to attack villagers including children(chapter 6). Plus even after he's revealed as a slime monster they're hesistant to actually fight him, since he's their father.
https://fateswartable.wordpress.com/2015/12/24/nohr-chapter-27-the-hollow-king/#more-247
Additionally Considering Nohr already controlled/had power most of its surrounding countries I don't see why Nohr engaging in a war to subdue Hoshido would be crossing a line for a character like Xander especially considering a translation of his perspective of Justice during War in chapter 24:
I know. You don’t actually
intend to follow those orders.
…Kamui.
Before this, you… I heard
from Camilla that you asked
where justice is found.
…Things like justice do not
exist.
This is war. In this world,
there is no right or wrong
way of being. There is only…
ambition and desire.
Moreover, it is what is
expected. You would do well
to remember that.
Similarly in the Hoshido route after beating Garon
https://kantopia.wordpress.com/2015/06/30/fire-emblem-fates-hoshido-story-summary/
Garon calmly regrets not having killed Kamui back when they were kidnapped. Kamui asks why Garon did not. Garon remarks originally for the sake of his plan to kill Mikoto, but also because he felt something back then, something he figures must have been for his ambitions, but is not quite sure anymore
The statements about ambitions on both separate routes. I think in the attempt to want Nohr to have a "reason" for the conflict I think people have forgotten that the Nohr are the "Glory Seeking Nohr" as first revealed. Real Garon had a motivation and considering Xander's perspective the war conquering Hoshido may have always been part of Garon's ambitions and conquering a country may not be something the rest of Nohr didn't see as out of the ordinary to begin with. The only difference on Real Garon's and Slime Garon's perspective on the conflict is the shift in goals: Slime Garon wanted to conquer Hoshido then destroy it and then destroy Nohr afterwards but masks it throughout the game by stating he only wishes to conquer it.
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It varies, sometimes Beautiful King is better and other times Song of Peace is. Azura has to be within 2 squares of an enemy for Voice of Peace to work, whereas Izana has to be within 2 squares of the effected unit(ally or enemy) for Beautiful King to work.
In a scenario where Aqua or Izana are out of enemy range and adjacent to say Corrin who's in enemy range. If the enemy is an 2-range unit like an Archer voice of peace won't reach the enemy but Beautiful King will reduce the damage to Corrin. If the enemy was a 1-range unit Voice of Peace would reduce the damage dealt to Corrin and Beautiful King would effect both Corrin and the enemy. If Izana was 2 squares away from Corrin and out of enemy range he would reduce the damage both times without effecting the enemy, if Azura was 2 squares away from Corrin and out of enemy range it wouldn't work on either.
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I'd agree she's just not a very effective unit given who else is available. If think in Lunatic if you really needed an extra staff user it would be worth prioritising Izana over Flora even though the earliest you can get him is chapter 23(I think at level --/11), his stat spread is better and Beautiful King, Rally Magic and Rally Luck are half decent skills that you normally wouldn't have access to(with Beautiful King stacking alongside other passive damage reducing skills your party will have).
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My problem is it was advertised as a revolution/redemption story, and came out the complete opposite. I would of loved to see a good story of sacrifices and redemption for a kingdom that was once for the most part evil, but nope we got this. I also would of liked a good reason as to why Nohr was so evil. I think a good story would of been to give Hoshido a bit of a dark side and have it be the reason why Nohr is the way they are. Something like a war between the 2 thirty years ago where Hoshido was actually the aggressors. Have Nohr before the events of the war be your typical fantasy kingdom that was lawful good for lack of a better term. Paladins, Knights, light mages, etc. Even Garon was a good king that was loved by the people. during the course of the war Nohr starts winning, so Hoshido pulls a dirty trick to try and topple Nohr. Pretty much Hoshido attempts to assassinate Nohr's royal family. They kill Garon's wife, and the crown prince, but fail to kill Garon and the youngest son, Xander. This kicks off Nohr's downfall. Garon turns away from what he used to be out of grief and anger over the death of his wife and oldest son, the army is demoralized because of the death of the queen and the prince, and how easy it happened, and eventually turns Nohr from a pure and good kingdom, to an angry vengeful kingdom. This would give a motivation and reason for Nohr starting a war again, and for being as evil as they are, and give Hoshido a bit of a darker side. Of course it needs a lot more fleshing out, but it is a start to what this could of been, and I thought this up in about 5 minutes. Imagine if they just sat down and really worked on and fleshed out this entire story, it could of been one of the best ones yet.
That would however completley conflict with the set up they have going. Birthright is supposed to be the typical Fire Emblem Tale so Hoshido needs to be something along the lines of Pherae, Altea, etc. when it comes to moral choices newcomers to series tend to lean towards the "good" choice which in this case also reflects the more manageable campaign for beginners. Make it more vague a or even pose Nohr as the pure/good kingdom and Hoshido as the original aggressor and you'd have so many new players being thrown into the deepest end of Fire Emblem with standard unpromoted enemies running around with skills because they wanted to make the right choice.
I think the stories they written complement and reflect the choices and consequences of the two options but also the game design and understanding player psychology far better than any "both sides are ambiguously grey, here choose!" story could accomplish in a videogame.
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I really don't understand what's so horrible about thinking that Awakening and Fates have nothing good to offer or that the older games are far superior. Or for that matter, thinking Red and Blue are the only good Pokemon games and that the first 151 were the only good Pokemon. I may disagree about the Pokemon examples but that doesn't mean my opinion counts for more than what I disagree with. After all, it's just opinions.
Also, grouping opinions is the silliest thing to do. Saying that ' some fans of older installments of a long-running franchise having a hate-boner for new installments' doesn't make any sense. If you try to look deeper, there will always be reasons. Rarely does someone hate a game specifically because it's new. But those reasons get lost when you group together multiple fans who hold the same opinion but have different reasons for having this opinion and hence we get baseless bullshit like 'older fans hate change'.
In cases where you look deeper in some cases you can end up seeing that those people aren't looking deep themselves or never cared to get a full picture. Pokemon is a good example because press further and in cases you end up finding out a number of those who believe only the 151 were good don't really know what the vast majority of the other 570 look like(It's hard enough to remember them all even as a fan) and that their reasoning tends to lean to examples like Klefki, Trubbish, Vanillite lines (ones that show up on opinion articles online). The opinion surrounding those specific ones are repeated loudly and often as possible can sometimes mask how much the people saying that stuff actually know about the thing they're criticising.
Amongst many fanbases there are some longer term fans (though some newer fans) who hate change or refuse to acknowledge any advantages or improvements the later games have. You can tend to see arguments for a game to go back to an old method of something when it was only worse (e.g. the old weapon triangle w/out weapon rank bonuses) simply because it was the incarnation of it in their favourite game. There's usually is a reason like you said but it's not inconceivable that someone who’s bitter about a specific part will attempt to tar the whole game with the same brush especially if they think that part won’t go away. The idea that a new entry in a franchise has absolutely nothing good to offer over the previous ones is typically very easy to disprove usually within the parts those people overlooked or take for granted.
In terms of opinions there's a world of difference between "I only like the first 151 Pokémon" and "Only the first 151 Pokémon are good". I think it's wise to be dubious of the latter types of claims especially if it comes from those who have little interest in what came afterwards(person who no longer likes Pokemon after gen 1 supposedly keeping up with the following 15+ years). In terms of Fire Emblem this would be someone who said “I just won’t bother with FE14 if its anything like FE13’s direction” and then at a later date tried to suggest Fates had absolutely nothing of value over previous entries, you wouldn’t really trust that person to be talking about every aspect of the game.
Fates Reviews are in
in Fire Emblem Fates
Posted · Edited by arvilino
They'll probably continue to innovate and change the game and it eventually won't be that much like Awakening or previous entries because stagnation was what was killing the series in the first place. Being one way for a long time isn't a good idea, even Fates changed a lot from Awakening... the series returning to being like any of the 12 before Awakening would be a death sentence for the series(outside of remakes).
I think they'll eventually get to their Fire Emblem on Mars idea at some point.