Why do I feel this has fallen on deaf ears?

[Mufasa]

Meh. Everyone knows my opinion here, although I'll state it anyway, since a differing viewpoint is always good. :P

I really don't mind flaming, trolling, whatever. I love me some survival of the most intelligent, patient and humble. :) For example, Destiny Hero often acts like an idiot, and I think he's trolling us. Calling him out on it IS THE BEST WAY to solve the problem. Now, personally, I try to say things in a less inflammatory tone at first, but if that doesn't work I will eventually break into more offensive methods because it is one of the best ways of dealing with these problems. The first forum I ever joined was full of really smart, cool people. They weren't assholes, but they would point out, sometimes very harshly, how stupid some things you did were. I learned so much from that forum it isn't even funny. I'd like to think I'm no longer stupid, at the very least. :D

Remember, the best way to have people stop calling you a twat is to stop being a twat. :P

There's something to be said for human decency however.

[Defeatist Elitist]

There's something to be said for human decency however.

What's Human Decency then? If someone is doing something totally stupid and embarrassing themselves horribly, how is it "human decency" to let them continue? Human Decency is something people make up to hide behind.

[Mufasa]

What's Human Decency then? If someone is doing something totally stupid and embarrassing themselves horribly, how is it "human decency" to let them continue? Human Decency is something people make up to hide behind.

Human decency=Manners.

You shouldn't criticize a person to the point where they would want to kill themselves for something as minor as a typo. (That's an extreme example and not to be taken as a real one.) Yes you can point out their mistakes, but to make a sport out of it and to present it in an over critical way, is harrassment.

Edited December 10, 2008 by Lyle Dayek

[Defeatist Elitist]

Human decency=Manners.

You shouldn't criticize a person to the point where they would want to kill themselves for something as minor as a typo. (That's an extreme example and not to be taken as a real one.) Yes you can point out their mistakes, but to make a sport out of it and to present it in an over critical way, is harrassment.

Uh, I can speak from experience, and people saying things like:

"Goddamnit, do you EVER contribute to a topic? All you do is post the most retarded things. You're totally useless."

Is a very good motivator to contribute more. VERY good. You just have to roll with it.

Also, anyone who wants to kill themselves because of something said on the internet is pathetic. I'm sorry if anyone has felt like that, I don't mean to offend, but that's the truth. Remember what they said in Grade School:

"Sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never hurt me."? That's pretty much true. Something has to have something physical or tangible attached to it in order to actually affect you. Basically, you're not face to face. You have time. Acting simply on emotion is silly.

And manners are still Subjective in many ways. I think it's good manners for every person I think is hot to suck my dick, should they have to? :P

[Masu]

Uh, I can speak from experience, and people saying things like:

"Goddamnit, do you EVER contribute to a topic? All you do is post the most retarded things. You're totally useless."

Is a very good motivator to contribute more. VERY good. You just have to roll with it.

Also, anyone who wants to kill themselves because of something said on the internet is pathetic. I'm sorry if anyone has felt like that, I don't mean to offend, but that's the truth. Remember what they said in Grade School:

"Sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never hurt me."? That's pretty much true. Something has to have something physical or tangible attached to it in order to actually affect you. Basically, you're not face to face. You have time. Acting simply on emotion is silly.

And manners are still Subjective in many ways. I think it's good manners for every person I think is hot to suck my dick, should they have to? :P

I love you

[Eltoshen]

The level of immaturity in this topic itself seems to be more than what I've been seen in some topics themselves. :X

IMO, you should knock off the "LOL, I think I'm funny and can make fun of Lyle repeatedly just because he says I'm mean! xP" attitude. Especially since Lyle himself, the one who you're joking around with has asked you to stop. That's common courtesy. If he hadn't said anything about it, it would mean he didn't mind you doing such things. However, that isn't the case...

[lolDeath]

I think your post counts as "BAAAW". At the very least it's spam. But if I'm correct in the definition of "BAAAW" it would be something along the lines of what I'm talking about.

That said, please continue.

That's funny, because it's a little hard to voice a complaint when you never make a statement. Great attitude though. *thumbs up*

Too many people here argue just to argue, too many kids trying to be an internet tough guy, trolls, people who can't take a joke, etc. I doubt moderators are going to help much at all since this is a problem with the personalities of some members. This topic serves no purpose, people didn't listen to Jyo when he made that topic and they aren't going to listen to it from anyone else.

[TLSothe]

...Seriously?

Leave me the fuck out of this. It's digging up memories I've managed to repress.

I was a prick but I'd like to think I've grown up more because of how it went down. I don't desire to be staff again, lest it undo what I've been doing since then.

Yeah...you shouldn't have been mentioned.

*sees vincnet's first post*

.......I wont even say anything as i know the outcome. Hint Hint:Lyle getting offended and flaming happening

SPAMSPAMSPAM

Now, for my views on the subject at hand...~

I've said a few times before it seems like a few people target Lyle a lot. Of course, now that MaSu and Lyle are friends that arguement is almost invalid But other people still do; and quite frankly, it pisses me off. Lyle's my friend, and people turning things into a flame-fest, at his expense, is bound to annoy me eventually. Even if they only did it once; However, they've done it many times. Granted, it isn't half as bad anymore. Now, Lyle, sometimes you need to give yourself more credit, and stick up for yourself. Not just to flamers. Earlier in this topic, VASM stated that he thinks you take things too seriously, and think you are more important than you are. I know he didn't mean to offend you, but still, you should've sticken up for yourself, rather than agree with him. -_-

That's all for now.

[lolDeath]

Sothe, no need to create an incident. Try to just not use names so people won't be tempted to post a "not uh" as a favor to me, okay?

[Cynthia]

To be honest this is old news. It's been being said over and over, and no one listens.

I've said it, Death said it, Shuuda said it, ZXValaRevan said it, Winston said it, Arch said it, we all said it, and we were ignored and pushed aside. We were concerned about the overall maturity level of the forum as well, and proposed ways to solve the issue, but as soon as we did, they were shot down by several members who refused to let any maturity in.

We've been saying this for a LONG time, it's kind of pointless to even listen to Lyle saying it, when you've ignored so many others who said it and tried to do something about it.

It's as if you have to be a specific person otherwise no one will listen to you. Since they didn't listen to any of us, I doubt they are going to listen to Lyle, no offense, but if they ignore 6 members, I doubt 1 more is going to change anyone's minds.

This topic isn't going to get anywhere, because none of the others did, so I'm putting a lot of doubt on this one. We've had several topics relating back to the overall maturity of the forum members, and all of which gained nothing.

Face it, the members don't want to change, and the staff don't want to apply any force upon them. It's a fault on both parts in my opinion. The staff are too loose when they should be stern, and some of them are just too harsh in handling of situations.

I believe I actually saw Jyosua end a topic by telling a member to "shut the fuck up." I don't find that appropriate for a staff member, regardless of how a member was behaving, even though the said member was just stating their opinions.

I won't lie, the staff isn't the best, sure they try their hardest, but their hardest really isn't working. Not to sound too critical, but I really have high expectations of the staff, and few to none are being met, which is a problem. If members like me can't respect the staff, then sure enough others won't either. If the staff can't be respected, then no one will listen to authority, thus chaos breaks loose.

I'm not saying the staff are bad people, I'm just saying that in my opinion, they aren't handling the site correctly. They do try though, and it's not entirely their fault, as the members are a lot to blame. The sad part is that most of the members that make it difficult to watch over the forum are these so called, "veterans."

I give credit where credit is due though, as I do recall Jyosua taking some actions towards events that I liked, and Vincent is at least willing to listen to us at times, along with Wist. I really don't know Hanz at all, or have spoken to him, so no comment on him. Same applies for Fox, aside from that I don't always agree with her.

As for Metal Arc, well I honestly don't think he was a great moderator. In fact I believe his breaking of rules and playing with power might be partial cause of the disrespect for the moderation system, as people don't take it seriously. He made getting warned like it was a fad, thus no one cares if they are warned now.

All in all in order to fix this problem it would require more enforcement from the staff, and more self discipline of the members, which neither of which is going to happen apparently. Sure the staff can hire more people, but we can't fix the members. I will be pretty blunt when I say that some of the members, (no names) are flat out ignorant and idiotic. That's not a flame either because you have no way of telling where it's directed, and it's an opinion, (which I'm sure a lot of us will agree with...)

People complained that some of us are too serious, and yet the irony is nothing is solved from being random. I literally have seen topics addressing problems on the forum, and their solutions were do something to distract everyone until the problem was over. That solves NOTHING.

The forum won't change, because people are afraid they might actually have to read posts, and post replies that add to the conversation, and stay on topic. Defeats the purpose of a forum, but that's just how it is.

Hell a majority of this site's bandwidth is probably wasted in the Far From the Forest section. So literally a majority of the bandwidth is being used for spam. There's just no easy fix to that which no one will complain over.

All my opinion and two cents on the matter, don't like it? Don't want me to speak anymore of it? Don't respond to it, as a lot of people seem to have this impression that you're not entitled to a response if someone responds to something you say.

[TLSothe]

Sothe, no need to create an incident. Try to just not use names so people won't be tempted to post a "not uh" as a favor to me, okay?

Huh? Oh, good point. *Edits post*

To be honest this is old news. It's been being said over and over, and no one listens.

I've said it, Death said it, Shuuda said it, ZXValaRevan said it, Winston said it, Arch said it, we all said it, and we were ignored and pushed aside. We were concerned about the overall maturity level of the forum as well, and proposed ways to solve the issue, but as soon as we did, they were shot down by several members who refused to let any maturity in.

*Loves how the only one you didn't mention was me*

Kidding, of course...I'll stop posting for now.

[Malexis]

Drama much?

Well...lesse here.

Lyle, I highly doubt the Staff is ignoring it. They don't need to make all disciplinary actions public, and the people flaming you, if it's serious flaming, are probably being warned/lectured in private.

[TLSothe]

Drama much?

Well...lesse here.

Lyle, I highly doubt the Staff is ignoring it. They don't need to make all disciplinary actions public, and the people flaming you, if it's serious flaming, are probably being warned/lectured in private.

I told you there was some drama here; and you haven't even seen the worst of it yet...This is minor.

Anyway, yeah, she stole the words from my poor wittle mouth. Just because it isn't publicized doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

[TheEnd]

I think drama is far worse than "immaturity."

[Tino]

*Loves how the only one you didn't mention was me*

And me, and others, but that's what Cynthia said. "We all said it."

Lyle, I highly doubt the Staff is ignoring it. They don't need to make all disciplinary actions public, and the people flaming you, if it's serious flaming, are probably being warned/lectured in private.

It's been said so many times by so many different members, yet no action has been taken. Or at least, no noticable action.

[Malexis]

It's been said so many times by so many different members, yet no action has been taken. Or at least, no noticeable action.

I know that. Ivy told me, which is part of why I came.

And me, and others, but that's what Cynthia said. "We all said it."

Well I'm saying it now.

I think drama is far worse than "immaturity."

I agree.

*Sigh* sorry if this seems like spam, but it's five am for me. I'll be able to make more educated posts after some sleep.

[TLSothe]

And me, and others, but that's what Cynthia said. "We all said it."

Oh dear, I forgot you, and missed the "We all said it." Damn, I suck at reading today. Ignore that post then.

[Tino]

I know that. Ivy told me, which is part of why I came.

You did say, though, that the staff is not ignoring it. While I hope that's true, and I'm fairly sure that they don't ignore it, they still should act harder and faster against it, since everything they're doing "behind the scenes" for a month or possibly more right now doesn't help us in any way.

[Le Communard]

The forum won't change, because people are afraid they might actually have to read posts, and post replies that add to the conversation, and stay on topic. Defeats the purpose of a forum, but that's just how it is.

On topic discussion is overrated. I've been around the block a time or two, and the fact is that as long as there's real discussion going on, it really shouldn't matter weather or not it's about the specific topic of the thread. It's a slippery slope to propose that off-topic discussion is a bad thing, a very slippery one indeed.

And on the subject of maturity: talk is all well and good, but the real solution is a proactive one. It's an issue of leading by example--if you can raise the bar, people will either raise with or or leave. Why not give it a try?

[lolDeath]

There are mature posters here, people do not follow by example.

[Le Communard]

There are mature posters here, people do not follow by example.

Prove it. I'm totally serious--back your words up with proof that the idea of leadership by example is not working in this situation. Find me threads that started mature but didn't trigger mature discussion. Find me an example of when an example of a time when someone attempted to be mature and they were not rewarded with at least some maturity in return. Find me any example of something that you think would refute me claims. In fact, screw that, you don't even need all that many examples from here. Just construct for me a good argument using mostly hypothetical and other outside examples and mabye I'll back off my claims. But don't give me just once sentence of lip and expect me to take that seriously.

Edited December 10, 2008 by Admrial Daala

[lolDeath]

Prove it. I'm totally serious--back your words up with proof that the idea of leadership by example is not working in this situation. Find me threads that started mature but didn't trigger mature discussion. Find me an example of when an example of a time when someone attempted to be mature and they were not rewarded with at least some maturity in return. Find me any example of something that you think would refute me claims. In fact, screw that, you don't even need all that many examples from here. Just construct for me a good argument using mostly hypothetical and other outside examples and I’ll back off my claims. But don’t give me just once sentence of lip and expect me to take that seriously.

I'll stick with the fact that you stated something blindly and expect me to dig up topics to prove you wrong when you have not disproved what I and multiple other members have said, and I don't care enough about your opinion to even continue this discussion with you.

[Le Communard]

I'll stick with the fact that you stated something blindly and expect me to dig up topics to prove you wrong when you have not disproved what I and multiple other members have said, and I don't care enough about your opinion to even continue this discussion with you.

Stated something blindly? Do you think I've been shut in the corner for the last few weeks? I may not post a lot, becuse I don't belive in posting when you don't have anything to say, but I certianly read and know about most of the discussion that happens here, and I know I haven't seen a lot of example leading. I'll even prove it to you if you so wish.

And what am I supposed to disprove anyways? I didn't see any suggestion before myown as to what mature people could do, so my statement didn't conflict with anyone else's. Please, stop with the empty rhetoric--it won't work on me. Rember, I get my fun out of Soviet Communisim, so I know every trick in the book.

EDIT: No good can come of this inane argument. I'm laying down my sword and going to do something useful with my life.

Edited December 10, 2008 by Admrial Daala

[Cynthia]

And me, and others, but that's what Cynthia said. "We all said it."

It's been said so many times by so many different members, yet no action has been taken. Or at least, no noticable action.

I know there are others but I didn't list them all as I didn't remember exactly everyone, but I give you all credit as well. You get the idea though.

[Rei]

I saw one line in Vincent's post, and it's my entire position on the issue.

Stop taking things so seriously dude :/... It's not like these people can actually harm you. You should just brush it off more often and just say "lol"

Edited December 10, 2008 by Rei