Shanty Pete's 1st Mate Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 (edited) Ah, Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door. The second entry in the franchise - and, some would say, where it peaked. But I'm not here to debate the relative merits of the titles, nor to dunk on Sticker Star. Rather, I'm capitalizing off of my recent replaythrough of the game - and the fact that we're two months away from the remake. I still think it's a great game - but not a perfect one. What are some things that could be improved by a remake? Here's one of them: The Glitz Pit, Round 2. Folks who have played the game already probably remember the Glitz Pit, the key setting of chapter 3. But for the uninitiated, just know that it's essentially a wrestling arena. Mario, and his various partners, need to fight against a series of enemies in order to earn the Champ's Belt - and a Crystal Star. While the enemies start easy - literally Goomba-easy - they gradually ramp up in difficulty. Some of the latter foes - like the Tiny Spinies, Crawdaddy, or the Koopinator - might just leave you sweating. It all culminates in an epic grapple with Rawk Hawk, the Champion of the Glitz Pit. After completing chapter 3, you can return to the Glitz Pit. However, due to an in-narrative glitch or mistake, Mario isn't the champion anymore - rather, he has to climb his way up from the bottom again. So, what new challenges await Mario this time? Well... nothing. The enemies he fights are exactly the same as the first time. Even characters who are added to the roster during the story, such as Sir Swoop and Prince Mush, have absolutely no presence. If you were expecting an extra challenge - or even something new and interesting to discover - you're going to be disappointed. But... what if that were not the case? What if the Glitz Pit changed, during Mario's comeback tour? Here's what I'm thinking - after Mario completes chapter 3, the Glitz Pit will temporarily close. For certain story reasons, I think this makes sense. So, for the duration of chapter 4, Mario won't have the opportunity to return. However, after completing chapter 4 (for real this time), Mario will receive an email from Jolene, announcing the re-opening of the Glitz Pit. The slots have filled up fast, though, so Mario will have to work his way back up from the bottom. As in the vanilla game, it'd be a totally optional sidequest. But, how to make it rewarding? Why, introduce new enemies with a higher level of difficulty, of course! Maybe some familiar faces as well. After each enemy, I'll list its (HP, Attack, Defense), for added context. As for who those enemies will be? Well, I'm glad you asked. 19. The Family Goom Spoiler Replacing the Goomba Bros, it's the Family Goom! Goombario, Goombaria, Goompapa, and Goomama. They all have (10, 2, 0), and can double-bonk, but each have a special trait: Goombario can "Tattle" either Mario or his partner. After being "Tattled", there's a chance that the target's next attack will miss. Goombaria can "Charge", like Hyper Goombas. This boosts her attack power by 2, for her next attack. Goompapa can "Multibonk". Each hit will do 2 damage, hitting up to 5 times. Can be interrupted prematurely by a Superguard. Goomama carries an infinite supply of Mushrooms around. She can heal herself, or an ally, for 5 HP instead of attacking. 18. Sir Swoop Spoiler This NPC was introduced mid-chapter, and it's a shame we never saw him. As for the contest against him, I see it as being three Swoopers (6, 3, 0), as well as one Swoopula (9, 4, 0), the last of which has a draining effect. 17. Klub Koopa Spoiler All the grounded Koopas are here, led by King K the KP Koopa (4, 2, 1). There's also Shellshocker the Shady Koopa (8, 3, 1), a Dark Koopa (8, 4, 2), and... Kooper? That's right! Kooper (15, 3, 1) has his usual Shell Toss attack, along with Fire Shell. This can hit both Mario and his partner, and burn them. 16: The Flying Spinies Spoiler An evolution of "The Tiny Spinies" - which, ironically, aren't even Spinies! It's the two "R.S. Buzzies" (5, 3, 4), but now they have wings. You can't jump on 'em, and you can't hammer 'em, so how are you gonna deal? ...Actually, I think this might be a new enemy type! Spiny Parabuzzies exist in the game already, but they're blue. What would this be? The "R.S. Parabuzzy"? Make some room in the Tattle Log, Goombella! 15: The Crunk Rocks Spoiler "The Punk Rocks" featured three Hyper Bald Clefts (3, 2, 2). In this new version, one of them (Cleftor) will remain, while another will be a Hyper Cleft (4, 3, 3), and the third is a Moon Cleft (6, 5, 5). 14: Bigger Bob-Omb Squad Spoiler A Bob-Omb (4, 2, 1), a Bulky Bob-Omb (6, 2, 1), a Bob-Ulk (10, 4, 2), and... Bombette? That's right, she's back! Bombette is (10, 3, 2), offering both a normal Bomb attack, and also a "Power Bomb" that strikes both Mario and his ally. 13: The Gimme-Grabbies Spoiler An evolution of the "Hand-it-Overs". This one features all the original members - two Bandits (5, 2, 0) and two Big Bandits (8, 3, 0) - as well as a Badge Bandit (12, 5, 0). I definitely want to keep this group in, since Bandy Andy is a notable NPC. Badge Bandit is normally a Pit-of-100-Trials enemy, but I don't think it's too strong to feature. 12: Sushie Rollers Spoiler Two Cheep-Cheeps are here, Sushie and Sashimie (her daughter). Sushie is (20, 3, 0), with her usual Belly Flop attack, as well as Water Block, which boosts her ally's defense by 2 for up to 3 turns. Sashimie is (15, 4, 0), also having the Belly Flop attack, alongside a Tidal Wave that will hit Mario and his partner. 11: X Marks the Naut Spoiler This is a totally new group, consisting of two X-Nauts (4, 3, 0), one X-Naut PhD (9, 4, 0), and one Elite X-Naut (10, 5, 1). Some might object to these enemies showing up at the Glitz Pit. But hey, even minions need a vacation now and then! 10: Whiggity Whacka Spoiler Remember Whacka, from the last two games? He's back, as an enemy! He is (25, 1, 1). Sounds weak, right? But, for every point of damage he's taken, his Attack power increases by 1. This makes him an enemy you'll want to take out fast. Bonus: The Armored Harriers Spoiler Originally, I had these as the 10th-ranked foes, as before. But, I'm thinking they actually got kicked out of the league, for being impossible to damage. It just makes for boring fights! However, they won't take this sitting down (uh, can Iron Clefts sit?). As such, they return to the Ring, to try to keep Gonzales out of the Major League, as before. 9: Air Mail Spoiler A mix of enemies here: a Dark Puff (3, 2, 0), a KP Paratroopa (4, 2, 1), Ruff Puff (7, 4, 0), an Ice Puff (9, 4, 0), and of course, Parakarry. Parakarry (15, 3, 1) can use the Sky Dive attack, as well as the Air Raid, as well as a Shell Shot that fires up to 3 times. Unlike other Paratroopas, he can't be knocked out of the sky. 8: Magikoopa Mystics Spoiler Take the existing Magikoopa Masters - one Red (7, 4, 0), one Green (7, 4, 0), and one White (7, 4, 0) - and add in a traditional blue Magikoopa (7, 4, 0). Basically the original, but more. 7: Hamma, Bamma, Chompy, and Flare Spoiler The existing trio - Hamma, Bamma, and Flare - features a Hammer Bro (7, 4, 1), a Boomerang Bro (7, 2, 1), and a Fire Bro (7, 3, 1). For the latter two, this is their only appearance in the game, so I definitely didn't want to cut them. To up the difficulty, though, we're adding a Red Chomp (6, 5, 3) from the duo "Chomp Country". 6: Spike's Storm Spoiler An evolution of "Spike Storm", this time with one Lakitu (5, 2, 0), two Red Spinies (3, 3, 3), and of course, Lakilester. Lakilester is (25, 2, 0), and throws Red Spinies. He can also summon Dodgy Fog, making himself and allies tougher to hit. 5: Yux it Up Spoiler A Yux (3, 2, 0), a Z-Yux (7, 4, 0), and an X-Yux (10, 3, 1), all in a row. These enemies can also summon Mini-Yux, Mini-Z-Yux, and Mini-X-Yux, respectively, shielding themselves from damage. 4: Craw Kin Spoiler In addition to the fearsome Dark Craw (20, 6, 0), you'll have to fight two regular Craws (20, 3, 0). Or... will the game call them "Gus"es? Not sure. 3: The Boo-jwah-zee Spoiler One Boo (7, 3, 0), one Dark Boo (12, 5, 0), and a couple of old haunts: Lady Bow and Bootler! Lady Bow is (20, 2, 0). She can use "Outta Sight" to turn allies invisible, or the "Fan Smack" to strike three times. Bootler is (15, 5, 0). While his attack looks tough, he usually doesn't attack. Instead, he prefers to buff Lady Bow's attack or defense (+2 for 3 turns). 2: Koopinator II: Electric Boogaloo Spoiler The Dark Koopatrol (25, 5, 2) has a new partner, but who? Or, should I say... Watt? Watt (20, 5, 0) can't be touched directly, or you'll be in for a shock! She can do "Electro Dash" for raw damage, with a chance to paralyze, or Turbo Charge, granting her ally +2 attack for 3 turns. 1: Mr. L Spoiler Your last enemy before the Champion! This one isn't a surprise - he was introduced as a new "climber" in the ranks, with potential to become the next Champion. But who could this mysterious masked man be? Well... Luigi. Like, it's obvious to Goombella and your other partners, but they're too polite to say it to his face. His music would, of course, be based on his encounter music in Super Paper Mario. Anyway, Mr. L, also known as "the Green Thunder", is (60, 6, 0). He can do a normal jump attack, as well as a "super jump" that has the potential to cause confusion. Also, by doing his signature L-pose, he can get the crowd on his side, causing Mario to drain up to two full points on the "Special meter". Once defeated, Luigi will come out of the audience to congratulate his Bro on beating that suspiciously handsome stranger. Wait... Luigi? That's right - you look back to Mr. L, and he was a Duplighost all along! Embarrassed, he flees the Arena. Later on, Mario has the chance to speak to Ganger, the Duplighost. Turns out, after reading Luigi's autobiography, he began to idolize the man. As such, he invented the "Mr. L" persona, in order to promote - and also embody - his hero. Of course, he couldn't just dress up as Luigi - where's the style, the panache? While he plans to drop the act, Luigi encourages him to continue. After all, he could never see the resemblance. Bonus: Rawk & Roly Spoiler That's right - Rawk Hawk is back! And he's added a new partner to his routine. Naturally, he gets to keep his own music. Rawk Hawk (40, 4, 0) has the same attacks as before, with one addition: a "power boost" move that increases Attack and Defense by +2 each, both for himself and his ally. Roly Moly - real name, Molly Mole - is a light blue Monty Mole. She has (24, 6, 0). In addition to the usual "throw rock" attack, she can jump out and launch a rolling attack. This hits both Mario and his partner, and has a chance of making them dizzy. Ch: Prince Mush Spoiler The one true champion, the legendary Prince Mush, makes his long-awaited return! Let's give him 75 HP, 8 Attack, and 1 Defense. What would his attacks look like? Well, first, I'd do a normal punching maneuver. When his HP falls below 30, he'll introduce a throwing attack - grabbing Mario and throwing him into his partner (or vice versa). Think of it as analogous to Mini-Yoshi's Gulp. Finally, if he's in the single digits, he'll try an all-out assault: two punches (4 damage apiece), two kicks (6 damage each), and a headbutt (8 damage). If he's that low, a certain Jolene in the audience might also sneak him a Super Shroom. As for his music, rather than reusing Rawk Hawk's, or going with the mini-boss music, I'm envisioning a remix of "The Master" fight theme, from the original Paper Mario. Of course, each battle will have its own reward of Coins and Star Points. But, what more? Well, defeating Prince Mush will award the "Star Presence" badge. At a cost of 4 BP, this provides a 50% boost to Star Power when attacking, or executing "stylish" commands, but not when Appealing. So there it is, the revised lineup! Are there any changes you'd make? Any enemies you'd add in, or take out? Depending on the feedback, maybe I'll come up with a "Round 3" that opens up in the postgame. Thank you for reading, and feel free to share your thoughts below! Edited March 30 by Shanty Pete's 1st Mate Revised to version 2! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Branniglenn Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 (edited) This is a fair way to remix the Glitz Pit with careful reuse of existing enemy variants (excluding Prince Mush who is kind of the reason everyone pines for this sort of idea in the first place). I think if it were just that however, it would still seem kind of disappointing until the finale we've been waiting for. An appropriate addition for a Thousand Year Door rom hack, but extremely small in scope for a top to bottom remake. Heck it may even be relatively small in scope compared to the bonus content Hero Mode is cooking up, if it ever gets finished. They haven't even made it to chapter 3 yet. Part of the reason the Glitz Pit can be dull (both its refight campaign, and the actual Chapter 3 campaign) is that it's competing with the Pit of 100 Trials. We already have a side mode of consecutive battles that is far more challenging and has good rewards waiting for players that want to risk it. The Glitz Pit offers no risk (Save Point + Healing in between fights) so the only way it can come out ahead is in its narrative and its potential to surprise us. For instance, beat up one of these remixed teams and suddenly a new foe steps into the ring like Bowser does in Chapter 3. If I were in charge I'd have Koops' Dad on KP Koopa's team, implying some Mentor/trainee relationship that was just never mentioned up until now. Or cameos from the first game. Lee and Chan, or perhaps Lakilest-I mean Spike he seems like the sort of guy that traveled the world proving himself after the last game. Have some fun with this world-famous arena that draws people from all over - possible even from mario games previously unrelated to paper mario. Edited March 25 by Zapp Branniglenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanty Pete's 1st Mate Posted March 25 Author Share Posted March 25 1 hour ago, Zapp Branniglenn said: I think if it were just that however, it would still seem kind of disappointing until the finale we've been waiting for. An appropriate addition for a Thousand Year Door rom hack, but extremely small in scope for a top to bottom remake. Yeah, that's fair. My mentality is "it's better than nothing", which... is what I'm afraid we're gonna get. I don't need a game with top-to-bottom changes, but I'd like to see something new. Even some small touches, like this. 1 hour ago, Zapp Branniglenn said: Heck it may even be relatively small in scope compared to the bonus content Hero Mode is cooking up, if it ever gets finished. They haven't even made it to chapter 3 yet. Hero Mode definitely looks cool. Maybe a bit overtuned in the difficulty, in my opinion. Then again, the base game has become something of a cakewalk, so it's hard to blame them for overcorrecting. Some really interesting things they are doing, in any case. Looking forward to its continuation! 1 hour ago, Zapp Branniglenn said: Part of the reason the Glitz Pit can be dull (both its refight campaign, and the actual Chapter 3 campaign) is that it's competing with the Pit of 100 Trials. We already have a side mode of consecutive battles that is far more challenging and has good rewards waiting for players that want to risk it. The Glitz Pit offers no risk (Save Point + Healing in between fights) so the only way it can come out ahead is in its narrative and its potential to surprise us. Eh... I still think the original gauntlet works pretty well. Although, I see your point. The difficulty definitely isn't on the level of the Pit of 100 Trials - even the first fifty floors. Side note: I did consider a "Glitz Blitz" mode, where the added challenge is, no healing between matchups. Not sure how that would be incorporated, though. The "battle conditions" can affect the challenge too, so, maybe double up on the conditions. I.e. "no jumping" and "defeat within 3 turns". Or maybe throw new ones in, like "No Guarding (including Superguarding)" or "Let your Partner fall in battle." Could shake things up a bit. 1 hour ago, Zapp Branniglenn said: For instance, beat up one of these remixed teams and suddenly a new foe steps into the ring like Bowser does in Chapter 3. If I were in charge I'd have Koops' Dad on KP Koopa's team, implying some Mentor/trainee relationship that was just never mentioned up until now. Or cameos from the first game. Lee and Chan, or perhaps Lakilest-I mean Spike he seems like the sort of guy that traveled the world proving himself after the last game. Have some fun with this world-famous arena that draws people from all over - possible even from mario games previously unrelated to paper mario. Ooh, I like these. Maybe Bombette could join the Bob-omb Squad? Or have Jr. Troopa bust in between matches, for the long-awaited rematch? A lot of possibilities here. I will have to think about incorporating some of them... ...Also, I do think there should be some sort of reward for completing Round 2, but I'm not sure what. A new and unique badge? A powerful item, like Zess Dynamite or the Jelly Ultra? Rawk Hawk as Mario's eighth partner? The "Stranger Sack", which holds 30 items? A lot of possibilities here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 10 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said: Part of the reason the Glitz Pit can be dull (both its refight campaign, and the actual Chapter 3 campaign) is that it's competing with the Pit of 100 Trials. We already have a side mode of consecutive battles that is far more challenging and has good rewards waiting for players that want to risk it. The Glitz Pit offers no risk (Save Point + Healing in between fights) so the only way it can come out ahead is in its narrative and its potential to surprise us. For instance, beat up one of these remixed teams and suddenly a new foe steps into the ring like Bowser does in Chapter 3. If I were in charge I'd have Koops' Dad on KP Koopa's team, implying some Mentor/trainee relationship that was just never mentioned up until now. Or cameos from the first game. Lee and Chan, or perhaps Lakilest-I mean Spike he seems like the sort of guy that traveled the world proving himself after the last game. Have some fun with this world-famous arena that draws people from all over - possible even from mario games previously unrelated to paper mario. I agree. If we're going to do something like this, either every fight needs to be super hard, basically a boss fight each time, or, it just needs to be ballz to the wallz funz. And since this is remake were talking about, it needn't even just be characters from the first game. Characters from later games could be used as well (I assume the games after Sticker Star have fun and memorable characters...I haven't played any of the later games). Mr L, why not? Fuck it, throw Mallow and Geno and some Super Star characters in there. Make every encounter be with someone of note. Make the narrative that Mario doesn't have to start again, but rather he is now in the Championship for Champions, facing all the people who have been champions of the contest in the past regardless of how little sense that might make to any laughable Mario continuity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Branniglenn Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 (edited) Incidentally, I would love to see Sir Swoop in battle finally. He would have made a great candidate for Bonus Optional Party Member as well. Unfortunately, healing yourself when you attack wouldn't be a unique thing to him in TTYD specifically. Flurrie's Lip Lock is absolutely broken. Pierces defense, does more damage than her basic attack, and heals for the full amount so she can continue tanking hits from the front. Like attacking and using a Mushroom in the same turn, and it only costs 3FP. I think it even allows her to damage enemies with spikes on top that she can't normally body slam. Best 3 shine sprites you could spend. Flurrie is also flying, so she'd share in his immunity to Quake attacks, in the rare event an enemy shows up with that item. Edited March 25 by Zapp Branniglenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Brand Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 (edited) I love the idea of expanding on the Glitz Pit, but I understand why they give fans a second shot at the enemies unique to the Pit, so they have a second chance to Tattle them if they didn't already. That said, a second or even third "league" sounds like a fantastic idea. One thing I think would be cool to see, whether in Round 2 or Round 3, would be matches against the original Paper Mario partners - Goombario, Kooper, Bombette, Parakarry, Lady Bow, Watt, Sushie, and Lakilester. There could also be rematches with some Paper Mario bosses. As an extra bonus, these battles could use remixes of music from Paper Mario. Goomba Bros. Spoiler Blue Goomba and Red Goomba, who have been through some training and gotten stronger. They're still easily the weakest of these teams, however. Blue Goomba Tattle: "HP: 12, Attack: 2 Defense: 0 This is Blue Goomba, one of the two Goomba brothers you and Goombario fought early on in Paper Mario. He's the younger of the two and is slightly weaker. But, he's gotten stronger since you first fought him way back then." Red Goomba Tattle: "HP: 14, Attack: 2 Defense: 0 This is Red Goomba, one of the two Goomba brothers you and Goombario fought early on in Paper Mario. He's the older of the two and is slightly stronger. He's gotten stronger since you first fought him way back then." Tattle-Shell Spoiler The first two partners of Paper Mario fighting as a duo. Goombario's Charge-Multibonk combo is powerful, but telegraphed. Kooper's Dizzy Shell and Fire Shell attacks can inflict annoying status ailments, but he himself is easily neutralized with a jump. Thus, this duo, while potentially dangerous, is a lot easier to deal with than the upcoming battles. Goombario Tattle: "HP: 30, Attack: 3 Defense: 0 Hey, it's Goombario! He was, like, your first partner in the original Paper Mario, right? His home is Goomba Village. Can it really be called a village if it's just one family living there, though? Anyway, he attacks with Headbonk and uses Tattle to give info about his opponents - a lot like me! I guess that makes him my predecessor, huh? He can also use Charge to increase the power of his next attack by 2, and can attack with a powerful Multibonk that will keep hitting us until we guard or superguard it, or it otherwise fails to do damage. Yikes! Is he Ultra Rank!?" Kooper Tattle: "HP: 25, Attack: 3 Defense: 1 That's Kooper, the second partner to join you in Paper Mario. He attacks with Shell Toss, and can use Power Shell to hit both you and your active partner (which is currently me). Funny, Koops can use those moves as well... Unlike Koops however, Kooper can use Dizzy Shell, which will make us dizzy, or Fire Shell, which will set us on fire. Ouch! Sounds like he's Ultra Rank...Thankfully, he can easily be knocked onto his back with a jump or quake, which drops his defense to 0. You know what to do, 'Jumpman'! <3" Koopa Bros. Spoiler The Koopa Bros. return for their long-awaited rematch. Their fight isn't too different from the one in Paper Mario, save for the fact their defenses are higher which makes them trickier to damage and defeat quickly. Red Ninjakoopa Tattle: "HP: 10, Attack: 2 Defense: 2 The leader of the Koopa Bros. These guys caused you a lot of trouble in Paper Mario, when they were guarding one of the Star Spirits for Bowser. They've been itching for a rematch ever since. Aside from having higher HP, Attack, and Defense, he isn't too different from regular Koopa Troopas, but watch out when the Koopa Bros. stack on top of each other! Their special attack has 4, 6, or 8 power, depending on how many Ninjakoopas are on the stack. Try to find a way to knock them down, or they're going to beat us fast!" Black Ninjakoopa Tattle: "HP: 10, Attack: 2 Defense: 2 One of the Koopa Bros. That black mask and shell sure do look stylish! Aside from having higher HP, Attack, and Defense, he isn't too different from regular Koopa Troopas, but watch out when the Koopa Bros. stack on top of each other! Their special attack has 4, 6, or 8 power, depending on how many Ninjakoopas are on the stack. Try to find a way to knock them down, or they're going to beat us fast!" Yellow Ninjakoopa Tattle: "HP: 10, Attack: 2 Defense: 2 One of the Koopa Bros. I can't hear him over that loud yellow he's wearing! Aside from having higher HP, Attack, and Defense, he isn't too different from regular Koopa Troopas, but watch out when the Koopa Bros. stack on top of each other! Their special attack has 4, 6, or 8 power, depending on how many Ninjakoopas are on the stack. Try to find a way to knock them down, or they're going to beat us fast!" Green Ninjakoopa Tattle: "HP: 10, Attack: 2 Defense: 2 One of the Koopa Bros. Green really doesn't help him stand out all that much... Aside from having higher HP, Attack, and Defense, he isn't too different from regular Koopa Troopas, but watch out when the Koopa Bros. stack on top of each other! Their special attack has 4, 6, or 8 power, depending on how many Ninjakoopas are on the stack. Try to find a way to knock them down, or they're going to beat us fast!" Dive Bombers Spoiler The first truly dangerous team of the throwback battles, as Bombette and Parakarry both hit hard, can hit Mario and his partner at the same time, and don't have the glaring weaknesses of the previous opponents. Worse, Parakarry can remove a partner from battle, forcing Mario to switch a new one in, unless he runs out in which case he'll have to fight by himself for the rest of the match. Bombette Tattle: "HP: 30, Attack: 5 Defense: 0 That's Bombette, the third partner to join you in Paper Mario. She's as feisty as she is cute! Unlike most Bob-ombs, her main attack is a Tackle, but she can also use Bomb to explode and deal 7 damage to one of us, or Mega Bomb to hit us both for 7. OUCH! Say, Bobbery is a Bob-omb, too. Do we, like, ALL have counterparts among your old team, or what?" Parakarry Tattle: "HP: 30, Attack: 5 Defense: 0 It's Parakarry, the mailman! He was the fourth partner to join you in Paper Mario. I wonder if he has any letters for me? Come to think of it, he delivered the letter that brought you to Rogueport in the first place, right? So it's partly thanks to him that we're on this adventure! Anyway, he can attack either of us with Sky Dive, or tuck into his shell to attack with Shell Shot, which deals 7 damage. He'll try to remove your active partner (which is currently me!) from the battle with Air Lift. Occasionally he'll attack us with Air Raid, which will deal 6 damage to both of us. Are ALL your old partners Ultra Ranked!?" Shocking Spooks Spoiler The danger only increases with the fierce team of Bow and Watt. Bow's multi-hit attacks already are capable of dealing a lot of damage if not properly blocked, but Watt's Turbo Charge can increase her attack power by 1 for a few turns, allowing her to deal monstrous amounts of damage with even her basic Smack, let alone Fan Smack. Bow can conceal herself and Watt for a turn, protecting them both from damage. Watt's main attack pierces defense, and she can paralyze Mario and/or his partner with Power Shock or Mega Shock. Bow is even capable of scoring an instant KO on Mario's party by scaring them out of the fight altogether, though it's possible to guard against the move. Lady Bow Tattle: "HP: 30, Attack: 1 Defense: 0 That's Lady Bow, the fifth partner to join you in Paper Mario. She can attack with Smack, which hits six times. She can turn herself and her partner transparent for a turn with Outta Sight, during which we can't hit them. How annoying! Thankfully, she can't act on the turn after, making that the perfect time to strike! Beware, when she is low on HP, she may try to scare us away with Spook, which will force us to run unless we guard against it. When she brings out her fan, watch out! Her Fan Smack hits five times for 2 damage apiece." Watt Tattle: "HP: 20, Attack: 5 Defense: 0 That's Watt, the sixth partner to join you in Paper Mario. Her Electro Dash pierces defense, so trying to guard against it won't do any good. She can stun one of us with Power Shock, raise her partner's attack power by 1 with Turbo Charge, or (gulp!) try to paralyze us both with Mega Shock." Rainstormers Spoiler This unlikely team of Sushie and Lakilester is a bit easier than the previous couple matches, though Sushie and Lakilester both have a support skill that can make the other harder to hit or take less damage, and Lakilester shares Bow's ability to OHKO the party. Sushie Tattle: "HP: 30, Attack: 5 Defense: 0 That's Sushie, the seventh partner to join you in Paper Mario. Her daughter, Sashimie, had a daughter of her own, meaning we're technically fighting a Cheep-Cheep granny right now. How crazy is that? Sushie attacks with a Belly Flop, and can Squirt one of us for 7 damage. Her Water Block will increase her partner's defense by 1 for a few turns, and her Tidal Wave can hit us for 6 each. Honestly, as Ultra Ranked partners go, she doesn't seem too nasty, despite her intimidating appearance." Lakilester Tattle: "HP: 60, Attack: 5 Defense: 0 That's Lakilester, the eighth and final partner to join you in Paper Mario. He prefers to be called 'Spike' because he thinks it sounds cooler. Sounds insecure if you ask me... Lakilester can throw a Spiny Egg at one of us with Spiny Flip, or attack us with a bunch of Spiny Eggs using Spiny Surge, which deals 4 damage. He can use Cloud Nine to make his partner more evasive. When his HP gets low, he'll use Hurricane, which will blow us right out of the battle and defeat us instantly unless we resist it, so be ready to mash that A button!" Edited March 27 by Lord_Brand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanty Pete's 1st Mate Posted March 28 Author Share Posted March 28 14 hours ago, Lord_Brand said: One thing I think would be cool to see, whether in Round 2 or Round 3, would be matches against the original Paper Mario partners - Goombario, Kooper, Bombette, Parakarry, Lady Bow, Watt, Sushie, and Lakilester. There could also be rematches with some Paper Mario bosses. As an extra bonus, these battles could use remixes of music from Paper Mario. I'm a fan of all these! The Goombella tattles are the double cherries on top. I was actually thinking that "Round 3" would be something of a "Boss Rush", bringing back bosses from Paper Mario 64 alongside those in TTYD. I've waffled back and forth between keeping them at their original power level, or bumping them up to a more appropriate challenge level. I'm definitely leaning towards the latter now, even if it makes things awkward with the Tattle Log (like, would Hooktail need a second entry?). That said, I think bringing back the OG partners would fit great in a "Round 2" context. I'm still trying to think of a story to tie it all together. Maybe something with Mr. L? I haven't played Super Paper Mario yet, but I like the idea of giving Luigi an actual story role. Also, his costume is perfect for a "masked fighter" in the Glitz Pit. On 3/25/2024 at 2:12 PM, Zapp Branniglenn said: Incidentally, I would love to see Sir Swoop in battle finally. He would have made a great candidate for Bonus Optional Party Member as well. Unfortunately, healing yourself when you attack wouldn't be a unique thing to him in TTYD specifically. Flurrie's Lip Lock is absolutely broken. Pierces defense, does more damage than her basic attack, and heals for the full amount so she can continue tanking hits from the front. Like attacking and using a Mushroom in the same turn, and it only costs 3FP. I think it even allows her to damage enemies with spikes on top that she can't normally body slam. Best 3 shine sprites you could spend. Flurrie is also flying, so she'd share in his immunity to Quake attacks, in the rare event an enemy shows up with that item. Since Sir Swoop is a basic Swooper, he can't actually drain HP. If he were made a partner, though, he'd probably have such a move. That's actually another thread I had in mind - coming up with an "Eighth Partner" for the TTYD remake. On 3/25/2024 at 9:14 AM, Jotari said: Mr L, why not? Fuck it, throw Mallow and Geno and some Super Star characters in there. ...Oh, so that's where I got the idea from. Aren't Geno and Mallow owned by Square Enix or something? Anyway, uh... what game is "Super Star"? "Mario Party Superstars"? "Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga"? "Super Mario All-Stars"? "Kirby Super Star"? "Mario Kart: Super Circuit"? "Paper Mario: Sticker Star"? Did I miss anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 42 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said: Aren't Geno and Mallow owned by Square Enix or something? Not an insurmountable obstacle people seem to think it is. It's not like Square Enix and Nintendo hate each other or anything. They both love money. They just need to be convinced such an appearance would directly translate to more money (which for me, it would, I wouldn't be interested in playing a Thousand Year Door remake if it's the same as the original, but fan service like this would put me over the edge and commit cash). 42 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said: Anyway, uh... what game is "Super Star"? "Mario Party Superstars"? "Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga"? "Super Mario All-Stars"? "Kirby Super Star"? "Mario Kart: Super Circuit"? "Paper Mario: Sticker Star"? Did I miss anything? ....All of them. Yes, even Kirby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanty Pete's 1st Mate Posted March 30 Author Share Posted March 30 Updated the Round 2 roster! Some of them were pretty much unchanged. Others just got a familiar face added. And others, still, were replaced wholesale. I tried my best to keep the named characters (i.e. Bandy Andy, Cleftor), as well as the enemies that are otherwise Pit-exclusive (Boomerang Bro, Lakitu), while also throwing in other enemies that aren't infinitely rematchable (Yux, Craw). But the biggest change, heavily inspired by @Lord_Brand's splendid suggestions (including terrific tattles), was bringing back the partners from Paper Mario 64. Along with a handful of other NPCs that, to me, just made sense to be there. In any case, let me know what you think! Does it sound more fun this time? A step in the right direction? Or not what you had in mind for a second round? I've appreciated the feedback thus far. And hey, maybe I'll finally come up with a "Round 3", sooner or later. On 3/27/2024 at 11:38 PM, Jotari said: Not an insurmountable obstacle people seem to think it is. It's not like Square Enix and Nintendo hate each other or anything. They both love money. They just need to be convinced such an appearance would directly translate to more money (which for me, it would, I wouldn't be interested in playing a Thousand Year Door remake if it's the same as the original, but fan service like this would put me over the edge and commit cash). Yeah, I'm very anxious about a "too-faithful" remake. Like, I love this game, and I love that it's getting a remake, and I want that remake to succeed. But, can I really justify spending money on a game that's more-or-less identical to one I already own, in a perfectly playable state? And that's not mentioning, with how recently I played it, that I'm not personally itching for an immediate replay. Of course, I don't want to be overly negative. There's still potential for this release to genuinely surpass the original, and justify its own existence, without changing any of the things that people loved. It's all yet to be seen. On 3/27/2024 at 11:38 PM, Jotari said: ....All of them. Yes, even Kirby. Especially Kirby! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Brand Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 (edited) I did consider having the partners be accompanied by associated supporters, such as Goombario and Goombaria. In Goombaria's case though, it just felt...kinda mean? I mean, sure, she's probably a bit older and tougher now, but still, she has that "little sister" energy that would make me feel bad for hitting her, even in a sports battle. Ditto for Goompapa and Goomama; I'm fond of Goombario's whole family, really. Still, the idea of facing the four younger members is interesting. Maybe Goompapa could use a hammer as a nod to the fact Goompa owned one, and Goompapa presumably used one when fixing Jeff the gate? No Lakilulu? Did think of a tweak to Tattle-Shell: Goombario only uses Tattle when Kooper is also active, as Kooper is the one he's talking to when he uses Tattle. If Kooper goes down before Goombario, Goombario will stop using Tattle, which means his every move will either be a Headbonk or a Charge followed by a Multibonk. On that note, I've thought up some Goombario Tattles for Mario and his TTYD partners as well. Three different entries in the case of his partners, one for each of their ranks. Mario Spoiler "It's-a Mario! We helped him save the Star Spirits in the original Paper Mario. Good times, huh? Looks like he's on another adventure, and he's found some new friends to help him. Can't deny I'm a touch jealous, but at least it gives us more time to spend with our friends and family (and we get to skip out on treks through oh-so-lovely burning hot deserts, haunted forests, fiery volcanos, and freezing cold!) Anyway, in case you forgot, he can attack by jumping (which will flip you on your back!) or hammering, and on top of that, he can equip lots of different badges that give him all kinds of crazy powers." (If Mario doesn't have Ultra Boots and Ultra Hammer) "HP is (Max HP), Jump attack power is 1/2/3, Hammer attack power is 3, Defense is 0 (+ defense increases from equipped badges). It looks like he's a little weaker than when we finished our own adventure. Maybe we stand a chance?" (If Mario has Ultra Boots and Ultra Hammer) "HP is (Max HP), Jump attack power is 3, Hammer attack power is 4, Defense is 0 (+ defense increases from equipped badges). It looks like he's as strong as ever. Well, no point in losing courage; let's show him what we're made of!" Goombella Spoiler Base Rank "HP is 10, Attack power is 1, Defense is 0. So, this is his new Goomba friend, huh? I have to admit, she's pretty cute. I wouldn't mind going on an adventure with her sometime...AHEM! Like me, she can use Headbonk (which will flip you on your back!) and Tattle. I wonder what she has to say about me...er, us?" Super Rank "HP is 20, Attack power is 2, Defense is 0. Is it my imagination, or is her ponytail looking more voluminous? Erm, ANYWAY! Like me, she can use Headbonk (which will flip you on your back!) and Tattle. She's Super Rank now, so she also has access to...MULTIBONK!? Jeez, I had to wait until ULTRA Rank to use that! It can hit multiple times in a row, which will really hurt! And in this game, ANY of Mario's partners can use Charge thanks to a badge...gee, THANKS, devs!" Ultra Rank "HP is 30, Attack power is 3, Defense is 0. Her eyes look prettier than ever. Wait...did she just blush? Er...MOVING ON! Like me, she can use Headbonk (which will flip you on your back!) and Tattle. She's Ultra Rank now, so she also has access to Multibonk (which I had to wait UNTIL Ultra Rank to use...) and a move called Rally Wink that lets Mario move an extra time in the same turn. Aw, man, that is so...wait, is she winking at Mario or at ME right now!? Uh...I think they need to turn the air conditioner on, I feel warm all of a sudden..." Koops Spoiler Base Rank "HP is 10, Attack Power is 1, Defense is 1. Looks like he's Mario's new Koopa Troopa partner. He's got the same Shell Toss and Power Shell moves as you do. My Headbonk attack can flip him on his back, which will set his Defense to 0. He looks a little timid...do you think he lacks confidence in himself? And yet, he's got a girlfriend. Lucky guy..." Super Rank "HP is 15, Attack Power is 2, Defense is 1. He's got the same Shell Toss and Power Shell moves as you do. He's Super Rank now, so he also has access to a Shell Shield that protects Mario. Wow! My Headbonk attack can flip him on his back, which will set his Defense to 0. ...Is it me, or does he look a bit braver and tougher than before?" Ultra Rank "HP is 25, Attack Power is 3, Defense is 1. He's got the same Shell Toss and Power Shell moves as you do. He's Ultra Rank now, so he also has access to a Shell Shield that protects Mario, and a Shell Slam that hits all grounded foes and penetrates their defense. WOW! My Headbonk attack can flip him on his back, which will set his Defense to 0. He looks a lot braver and tougher now. I bet even his girlfriend will be impressed!" Flurrie Spoiler Base Rank "HP is 15, Attack power is 2, Defense is 0. This is Madame Flurrie, a retired diva who resides in the Boggly Woods. Her Body Slam attack hurts, but her signature move is Gale Force, which can blow enemies out of battle. I wonder if it's effective against us? I hope not, that would be an anticlimactic way to end the fight...say, doesn't Lakilester have a similar move? One that he learned at ULTRA Rank?" Super Rank "HP is 25, Attack power is 4, Defense is 0. She's Super Rank now, so her Body Slam hurts more, and she now has access to Lip Lock, which drains HP from her target. UGH! Reminds me of the Fuzzies..." Ultra Rank "HP is 35, Attack power is 6, Defense is 0. She's Ultra Rank now, so her Body Slam is at its most painful, and in addition to Gale Force and Lip Lock, she can use Dodgy Fog to make Mario harder to hit. Huh, that sounds a lot like Lakilester's Cloud Nine..." Mini-Yoshi Spoiler Base Rank "HP is 10, Attack power is 1, Defense is 0. Hey, it's a Yoshi kid! Or should we call him a Mini-Yoshi? Apparently, Mario named him '(Chosen name)', so we'll stick with that. He calls Mario 'Gonzales', as does most everyone else here. His Ground Pound has only 1 Attack power, but it hits four times, and it's a jump-type attack, so it'll flip you on your back (and really hurt, especially if his Attack gets buffed). He can also use Gulp to slurp up his frontmost opponent (which is me right now!) and spit them at the next opponent behind them (which would be you), dealing 4 damage to each and piercing defense. Um...I don't suppose you'd like to switch places this time, would ya, Kooper ol' buddy?" Super Rank "HP is 20, Attack power is 1, Defense is 0. The Yoshi hatched by Mario, AKA "The Great Gonzales", during his time fighting in the Glitz Pit. (Chosen name) is Super Rank now, so his Ground Pound hits five times, and his Gulp hits for 5 damage. In addition, he can attack with Mini-Egg, which will hit random targets three times total and shrink each target it hits. He sure is a different beast than those peaceful Yoshis of Lavalava Island, huh? Though he reminds me of those five little rascals Sushie babysat..." Ultra Rank "HP is 30, Attack power is 1, Defense is 0. The Yoshi hatched by Mario, AKA "The Great Gonzales", during his time fighting in the Glitz Pit. (Chosen name) is Ultra Rank now, so his Ground Pound hits six times, his Gulp hits for 6 damage, and his Mini-Eggs hit four times total. Furthermore, he can summon a Stampede of Yoshis that will hit us each for 1 damage six times. If his Attack gets buffed, the first hit will hit for full damage, and each subsequent hit will hit for 1 less. Yikes...but where do all the Yoshis come from? Lavalava Island?" Vivian Spoiler Base Rank "HP is 15, Attack power is 3, Defense is 0. Vivian's one of the three Shadow Sirens. Or, I should say WAS one of them. Her older sister Beldam sure did treat her rotten... Her Shade Fist attack can burn the target it hits, and her Veil move allows her to hide herself and Mario, preventing us from attacking them for a turn. Say...doesn't that sound a lot like Bow's Outta Sight move?" Super Rank "HP is 20, Attack power is 4, Defense is 0. Vivian was one of the three Shadow Sirens, until Mario came along and won her loyalty with an act of kindness. That's Mario for you! Vivian's Super Rank now, so in addition to Shade Fist and Veil, she can use Fiery Jinx to deal 5 damage to both of us and burn us, while piercing defense. Man...we're sure lucky Bowser didn't employ her and the other Shadow Sirens during our adventure, huh? Though she might have joined our party then, too..." Ultra Rank "HP is 30, Attack power is 5, Defense is 0. Vivian was one of the three Shadow Sirens, but has since come into her own as a hero thanks to Mario's good influence. She's Ultra Rank now, so in addition to Shade Fist, Veil, and Fiery Jinx, Vivian can use Infatuate to confuse us. ...Uh, Kooper? Why are you looking at me like that?" Admiral Bobbery Spoiler Base Rank "HP is 20, Attack power is 4, Defense is 0. Mario's new Bob-omb partner. And wow, does he look tough! His Bomb attack deals a lot of damage if timed correctly, and his Bomb Squad deploys three time bombs that explode after 1 turn. Each time bomb deals 3 damage. That means if all three hit one of us, we'll take 9 total damage. OUCH! " Super Rank "HP is 30, Attack power is 5, Defense is 0. Mario's new Bob-omb partner, who overcame the grief of his past. He looks even tougher than before! He's Super Rank now, which not only makes his Bomb attack stronger, it also grants him access to Hold Fast, which sets him up to counterattack direct attacks. ...Like my Headbonk and your Shell Toss. He also has his Time Bomb attack of course. This guy could teach Bombette a thing or two..." Ultra Rank "HP is 40, Attack power is 6, Defense is 0. Mario's new Bob-omb partner, who helped Mario conquer the ghost pirate Cortez. He's Ultra Rank now, so in addition to Bomb, Time Bomb, and Hold Fast, he has a devastating new attack called Bob-ombast, which deals 8 damage to all his opponents in battle. Yikes...I don't think it's a stretch to call him the scariest of Mario's new partners. But, he just may be the coolest, too!" Ms. Mowz Spoiler Base Rank "HP is 15, Attack power is 2, Defense is 0. A flirtatious badge thief. Her Love Slap attack pierces defense, and her Kiss Thief move can steal an item or badge from us. Or at least, it could if we were carrying any, but we're not, so that move will be wasted on us. HA! ...Is it just me, or does Mario tend to attract a LOT of flirty girls?" Super Rank "HP is 20, Attack power is 3, Defense is 0. A flirtatious, mischievous badge thief. She's Super Rank now, and can use Tease to make us dizzy. Her Love Slap is a bit stronger now, too. Can Mario really trust her around his badges? She's cute, but I wouldn't let her anywhere near my valuables!" Ultra Rank "HP is 25, Attack power is 4, Defense is 0. A flirtatious, mischievous, badge thief who likes to steal kisses. She's Ultra Rank now, which makes her Love Slap stronger still, and lets her restore 10 HP to Mario with Smooch. ...Seriously, what is his secret?" Edited March 30 by Lord_Brand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanty Pete's 1st Mate Posted April 13 Author Share Posted April 13 On 3/30/2024 at 4:15 AM, Lord_Brand said: I did consider having the partners be accompanied by associated supporters, such as Goombario and Goombaria. In Goombaria's case though, it just felt...kinda mean? I mean, sure, she's probably a bit older and tougher now, but still, she has that "little sister" energy that would make me feel bad for hitting her, even in a sports battle. Ditto for Goompapa and Goomama; I'm fond of Goombario's whole family, really. Still, the idea of facing the four younger members is interesting. Maybe Goompapa could use a hammer as a nod to the fact Goompa owned one, and Goompapa presumably used one when fixing Jeff the gate? Hey now, the Great Gonzales is no sexist! If Goombaria wants a fight, then he'll stomp him with the same tenacity he would any male Goomba. In any case, depending on how much time's passed between these games, Goombaria in TTYD is probably as old as Goombario was in PM64. Maybe a touch older, even. Sure, Lady Bow hasn't visibly aged in her cameo... but she's dead! On 3/30/2024 at 4:15 AM, Lord_Brand said: No Lakilulu? ...In my defense, I totally forgot that she exists. It'd be nice to see her team up with Lakilester, but I don't want to remove "Generic Lakitu" from the Pit. Alternatively, Lakilulu could have a team-up with Koopie Koo? Not exactly my own idea - in TTYD Hero Mode, she proves herself a fierce opponent. I might make a few tweaks. But for the time being... Round 3 is here! Yes, after much anticipation, I'm finally delivering. Round 3 would become playable after two conditions are met: you've completed Round 2, and you've defeated the Shadow Queen. That's because it's designed as something of a Boss Rush. Including not only this game's bosses, but those of the original Paper Mario 64, as well. Most of them have seen their stats boosted, so that they present something of a challenge. Now, let's get into it! 19. The Goombosses Spoiler What would the Glitz Pit be without a first round against Goombas? Blue Goomba (12, 2, 0), Red Goomba (14, 2, 0), and King Goomba (20, 3, 0) make a return. The Blue Goomba has the Charge ability, while the Red Goomba can Multibonk up to 5 times consecutively. And don't try to jump on King Goomba's spiky new crown! 18. Blooper Reel Spoiler It's the Blooper (36, 3, 0) that Mario and Goombella faced all the way back in the prologue! But... now electrified? Go figure! Better not make contact, and be wary of its unguardable Lightning strike that hits both Mario and his partner. 17. Ninjakoopa Troupe Spoiler The Ninjakoopas (10, 2, 2) are back in all their colors: Red, Green, Yellow, Black, and... Purple? That's right - no TMNT parody would be complete without a little-known Koopa Sister! As before, they can form a stack, in which state, they'll be invulnerable. Of course, they're vulnerable to being flipped. But be warned - they've been training with the Shady Koopas. Flip 'em over, and face a furious tornado attack! 16. Hooked on a Feeling Spoiler Hooktail (40, 7, 3) is back, and she's overcome her fear of crickets! Good for her! Her fear of mice, though, is as real as ever. Using the right badge, or just sending Ms. Mowz to fight her, will reduce her Attack and Defense by 1 point each, up to 3 times. 15. Tomb of the Koop Spoiler Tutankoopa (60, 6, 0) has left his mastaba. But be warned, his stylish hat isn't just for show! In addition to throwing shells, he can summon Red Chomps (6, 5, 3) to make things more difficult for you. 14. Boo-tonium Spoiler We've already seen what happens when too many Boos join together... but how about an abundance of Dark Boos? Why, it's the one and only Atomic Dark Boo (80, 6, 0)! Similar attacks to the Atomic Boo, but with more power and a new aesthetic. Take too long to beat it, and it might spawn a Dark Boo (8, 5, 0) to join in the fun. 13. Scourge of the Seas Spoiler Hola, amigo! The undead Pirate Captain may help take you between Rogueport and Keelhaul Key, but this time, he's here for a scrap. Cortez (90, 6, 2) has three phases of 30 HP each, just like before. His four weapons are back, but there's an extra one. After all, where would an IS-made Pirate be without his Axe (6, 4, 1)? Sorry, Flurrie, but this one is too heavy for you to just Gale Force away. 12. Venus Fire Trap Spoiler Who could be spicier than the one and only Lava Piranha (80, 8, 1)? Its Lava Buds (12, 0, 0) will release Petit Piranhas (1, 9, 0), which can do serious damage and leave Mario, or his partner, with a burn. It can also shoot its own fireballs. Maybe an Ice Storm would freeze it in its tracks? 11. Smorgasbord Spoiler Curse you, Smorg (100, 5/10, 1), and your ability to form a working human pair of fingers! Really, though, they alternate between their Miasma and Pincher form. They might also steal members of the audience, and hold them captive - better save them! 10. Tubba & Grubba Spoiler This is the big one - the fight you need to win, to return to the Major Leagues. Tubba Blubba (15, 6, 0) might not sound too threatening, but beware - he won't take any damage until Macho Grubba (90, 6, 0) has been beaten. He brings back his abilities to boost his stats, make him dodgy, give him double attacks, etc. Beat Macho Grubba, and Tubba Blubba's Heart will return to him, making him vulnerable again. Bonus: Jr. Troopa Spoiler It's Mario's old rival, and he's back to prove himself! As seen in his cameo, Jr. Troopa (120, 8, 2) will be in his spiky, winged version. You can't jump on him, but you also can't do any grounded attacks... alas, what is to be done? Watch out for his Swoop attack, and his ability to recover 10 HP at a time. 9. Shy Guy Surprise Spoiler Three enemies have made it out of the toybox, and they're coming for Mario. The Big Lantern Ghost (40, 5, 0) might be the scariest-looking, but just target his lantern, and he'll be little trouble. The Anti-Guy (50, 10, 0) is rather unassuming, but his misandry can really be problematic for Mario. Hiding in the back, the General Guy (30, 5, 3) can do some serious damage with a lightning attack - assuming his incandescent lightbulb doesn't get recalled, or shattered by Mario. 8. Gloomy Gus Spoiler That's right, I didn't forget about Gus (20, 3, 0)! Admittedly, he hasn't been working out much lately. Wait, who's that dragon standing behind him? Might it be Gloomtail (120, 9, 3), stronger than ever before? Yep, and he hasn't forgiven you for beating his sister in the minor leagues. Beware his Megabreath attack! 7. Head in the Clouds Spoiler A cloud and a bird, working together? Believe it! Huff N. Puff (90, 7, 0) will threaten you with his breath and lightning attacks, while Buzzar (60, 5, 1) can pick up your partner and take them out of battle for a turn, before dropping them. Keep your eyes glued to the skies! 6. All for Naut Spoiler You may have thought he was reduced to a mere positronic brain, but fret not: Sir Grodus (100, 9, 2) lives yet. He's more threatening than ever before, with more power, and the ability to summon two Grodus Xs (3, 4, 0) per turn, each giving him +1 Defense. And with 4 of them, he becomes invulnerable. Perhaps attacking the hand that holds his staff would be a worthwhile endeavor? 5. Mineral Monarch Spoiler The Crystal King (140, 8, 3) is returning to reign on Mario's parade. His Icy Breath has the chance to freeze, and at low HP, he can create illusions like a Wizzerd. He can also summon Crystal Bits (1, 0, 0), that he can then use to attack. 4. He's Taking His Tube Out! Spoiler We all thought Lord Crump, the true treasure and icon, was lost in space. Turns out, he was! But then another X-Naut took his plans, and used them to refine his creation further. It's Magnus von Grapple 3.0 (110, 10, 3), and this time, it's quite ready to grapple. In addition to the rocket fists attack, it can fire up to seven audience members, for 5 damage apiece. 3. Toad's Mojo Dojo Casa House Spoiler Ah, the Toad Town Dojo. Before the Glitz Pit, the place where Mario truly became a master. But to be the master, you've got to beat the master. And that's just who he's got to face here! There's Chan (30, 3, 3), the braided Buzzy Beetle who does spinning attack. Then Lee (40, 7, 0) the Duplighost who can copy Mario's partner. And of course, they're led by The Master (99, 10, 1). Notorious for his slide kick and combo attacks, he's one of the fiercest combatants the Pit has ever seen. 2. The Shadow Beauties Spoiler Finally, the trio are back together again! Beldam has finally accepted her sister, so for this battle only, she won't be on Mario's side. There's Vivian (70, 6, 1), whose Fiery Jinx can burn Mario and his partner. She may be his friend, but she's giving it all she's got! Then Marilyn (80, 8, 1), the bruiser of the bunch, can charge up her clapping attack. Finally, Beldam (60, 7, 1) remains the brains of the operations, and can attack with ice magic - or help her sisters attack a second time. 1. Stars Above! Spoiler What would a Mario boss rush be without King Koopa? Bowser (99, 9, 3) is back, and with the Star Rod, no less! He can use it to make himself invulnerable for a turn, and double the power of his next attack, such as Fire Breath and Bite attacks. As for Kammy Koopa (99, 6, 1), she's back on the broom, and doing all she can. Making herself invisible, electric, healing herself or Lord Bowser... there's no limit to the tricks up this woman's sleeves! Bonus: Moorinyz Spoiler Listen here, Slick! A certain Duplighost (40, 6, 0) is back - but you can easily defeat him by saying the name "Doopliss", right? Wrong! He's changed his name! Thus, he's impervious to all damage. But when he transforms into Mario, he'll reveal that his name starts with an "M". Turning into Goombella, he gives the second letter, "o". Have him transform into all the partners to get his full name: "Moorinyz"! Say that name, and suddenly, you he starts taking damage. From there, he's a piece of cake. Ch: Shadow of a Doubt Spoiler Mario defeated the dark presence who lived beneath Rogueport... or did he? One way or another, the Shadow Queen (225, 8, 2) has made her return to the world of the living. She may not have Peach, but she has a dark wirey body that drains the hope of all who face it. Her Hand attacks, including the Dead Hands, are part of the fun as well. Will she succeed into plunging the surface world into another millenium of darkness? Or will Mario and his partners send her packing once more? Again, each battle will provide Coins and Star Points. And even if the battles don't sound too tough, don't forget about the conditions that Jolene can set! As for the reward for beating the course as a whole, what should it be? One option would be another badge. I'm thinking the "Star Saver" badge. This would reduce the Star Power Cost of special attacks by 1 - except for those that cost just 1 SP already. So, Earth Tremor would cost just 1 SP, while Sweet Feast would cost 4 SP, for example. This badge would require 4 BP to equip. Anyway, what are your thoughts on this list? Any notable bosses that I've missed? Any alterations that you're not so sure about? Please let me know, in the comments below! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Brand Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 6 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said: Hey now, the Great Gonzales is no sexist! If Goombaria wants a fight, then he'll stomp him with the same tenacity he would any male Goomba. In any case, depending on how much time's passed between these games, Goombaria in TTYD is probably as old as Goombario was in PM64. Maybe a touch older, even. Sure, Lady Bow hasn't visibly aged in her cameo... but she's dead! ... Again, each battle will provide Coins and Star Points. And even if the battles don't sound too tough, don't forget about the conditions that Jolene can set! As for the reward for beating the course as a whole, what should it be? One option would be another badge. I'm thinking the "Star Saver" badge. This would reduce the Star Power Cost of special attacks by 1 - except for those that cost just 1 SP already. So, Earth Tremor would cost just 1 SP, while Sweet Feast would cost 4 SP, for example. This badge would require 4 BP to equip. Anyway, what are your thoughts on this list? Any notable bosses that I've missed? Any alterations that you're not so sure about? Please let me know, in the comments below! It's not really a sexism thing per se, moreso the memory of bringing Goombaria's dolly back to her and seeing how tearfully happy she was to have it back. It'd be like if Goombario had a little brother named "Goombuigi" who lost his Super Mario action figure, and was overjoyed that the real Mario brought it back. I'd feel bad fighting "Goombuigi", too, for his "little brother" energy. (Hmm, maybe the Goomba family could have added a Goombuigi since their appearance in PM64?) But, the pain would be softened if Goombaria herself assured Mario she's okay with him fighting her at his best. (As a side note, I would like to see more overtly female enemies in the Paper Mario series, and the Mario series as a whole for that matter. Most of the enemies we see are either masculine or ambiguous. Could simply be a gender variant, or could be something distinct in gameplay, like a Goombette who can call Goombas and associated variants to join them in battle, with according Gloombettes and Hyper Goombettes, or perhaps the ability to power up their friends, maybe even with their own version of Rally Wink a la Goombella. Birdos would also be a fine addition, being one of the few feminine-by-default baddies to have shown up in the series. Though friendly Birdos would also be interesting; maybe it could be a similar situation to the Koopa Troopas where the enemy versions have a more delinquent look? Kind of a "bad girl" vibe, in the bad Birdos' case?) It's funny, I almost suggested Blue and Red Goomba having Multibonk and Charge myself, only swapped. I'm now imagining Gloom and Hyper versions of the Goomba King. Y'know, I think it'd be awesome if a lot of Paper Mario bosses genuinely got the chance to return with new twists in future PM titles. I could easily have seen the Goomba King becoming a recurring boss in Paper Mario, if not for Troopa Jr. filling that role. Bowser's Castle was sorely missing rematches with the Goomba King, the Koopa Bros., Tutankoopa, Tubba Blubba, General Guy, Lava Piranha, Huff N. Puff, and the Crystal King, each with new appearances and revised strategies. What if "Tubba & Grubba" was "Dubba Trubba"? Though I'd think Jolene would have Grubba dogpiled the moment he showed his face around the Pit again, after what he did to her brother and many other fighters. But the idea of a team up between the Spike/Clubba bosses is neat. (Also, you just inspired an idea for a Clubba boss duo in my Paper Mario: Star Patrol idea...) MVG 3.0 sounds really cool. The first two are among TTYD's most memorable bosses, quite novel for being the first instance in the series of a recurring chapter end-boss character, which really helps Crump feel like a proper rival to Mario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Lord_Brand said: (As a side note, I would like to see more overtly female enemies in the Paper Mario series, and the Mario series as a whole for that matter. Most of the enemies we see are either masculine or ambiguous. Could simply be a gender variant, or could be something distinct in gameplay, like a Goombette who can call Goombas and associated variants to join them in battle, with according Gloombettes and Hyper Goombettes, or perhaps the ability to power up their friends, maybe even with their own version of Rally Wink a la Goombella. Birdos would also be a fine addition, being one of the few feminine-by-default baddies to have shown up in the series. Though friendly Birdos would also be interesting; maybe it could be a similar situation to the Koopa Troopas where the enemy versions have a more delinquent look? Kind of a "bad girl" vibe, in the bad Birdos' case?) I think Paper Mario TRYD might actually have more female antagonists the male ones. I mean, the most prominent ones seem to err mostly female between the sirens and the Shadow Queen herself, outside of Grodus and Crump of course. I guess Chapter 3 has Grubba and Rawk Hawk (though did Jolene have an unwilling villainous alliance with them or something, can't quite remember details) and Cortez is male insonfar as a skeleton can have a gender. But the rest all seem to be gender ambiguous creatures. Even Doopliss seems to have been adopted into the sirens as a sister. And Bowser is assisted by Kammy Koopa. Hooktail is female too. Edited April 13 by Jotari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Brand Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 Bosses and villains, sure, but I'm talking common enemy encounters. Female Goombas, Koopa Troopas, Bob-ombs, Boos, etc. Or even more distinct species with female designs by default, such as Birdo. I think it'd be cool to see male and female variants fighting side-by-side, whether as simple genderswaps or as distinct foes with different tactics. Regarding Jolene: Spoiler Jolene was working for Grubba to investigate her brother's disappearance. She was never actually a villain and even helps Mario a few times, though the story does present her as having an ambiguous alignment at first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanty Pete's 1st Mate Posted April 13 Author Share Posted April 13 10 hours ago, Lord_Brand said: What if "Tubba & Grubba" was "Dubba Trubba"? Though I'd think Jolene would have Grubba dogpiled the moment he showed his face around the Pit again, after what he did to her brother and many other fighters. But the idea of a team up between the Spike/Clubba bosses is neat. (Also, you just inspired an idea for a Clubba boss duo in my Paper Mario: Star Patrol idea...) Ooh, I like the name! Might have to implement that. And yeah, this "Boss Rush" would be... dubiously canon at best. Like, I don't think if the Shadow Queen came back, that her first destination would be the Glitz Pit. But maybe Jolene could have sone nasty words to say about Grubba when he shows up? Or maybe "He's promised to be on his best behavior!" (Small text: "Fat chance of that..."). Happy to inspire! I've really enjoyed your idea, even if I haven't contributed a ton lately. 9 hours ago, Jotari said: I think Paper Mario TRYD might actually have more female antagonists the male ones. I mean, the most prominent ones seem to err mostly female between the sirens and the Shadow Queen herself, outside of Grodus and Crump of course. I guess Chapter 3 has Grubba and Rawk Hawk (though did Jolene have an unwilling villainous alliance with them or something, can't quite remember details) and Cortez is male insonfar as a skeleton can have a gender. But the rest all seem to be gender ambiguous creatures. Even Doopliss seems to have been adopted into the sirens as a sister. And Bowser is assisted by Kammy Koopa. Hooktail is female too. Notable male enemies: Spoiler Lord Crump Rawk Hawk Grubba Cortez Grodus Gloomtail Bowser Notable female enemies: Spoiler Hooktail Beldam Marilyn Kammy Koopa Shadow Queen Notable gender-ambiguous enemies: Spoiler Blooper Doopliss Smorg Bonetail Yeah, some of these placements are debatable. And there's an argument for including more minibosses, like Gus or the Armored Harriers (which would strengthen the male side). There's an imbalance, but not an overwhleming one. One place where it's most severe, I'd say, is the Glitz Pit. There are a lot of named generic enemies there, like Cleftor, King K, and Master Crash. Anyway, I don't think a single one is explicitly female. They're all either male, or don't have a gender specified. Maybe there's a "locker room" argument, but Goombella, Flurrie, and Jolene don't seem to mind. 1 hour ago, Lord_Brand said: Bosses and villains, sure, but I'm talking common enemy encounters. Female Goombas, Koopa Troopas, Bob-ombs, Boos, etc. Or even more distinct species with female designs by default, such as Birdo. I think it'd be cool to see male and female variants fighting side-by-side, whether as simple genderswaps or as distinct foes with different tactics. I do think this raises an interesting point of discussion, on the best way to represent gender diversity among genetic enemies. On the one hand, if we give the "Goombettes" lipstick and long eyelashes, then we're employing stereotypical symbology, and inadvertently reinforcing "male = default". But, if we make all the Goombas look the same, then people comimg in with "male = default" will be wondering "hey, where are all the girls?" There are, of course, ways to draw distinction non-stereotypically. Pokemon did it with subtle differences in Gen IV - Floatzel having different stripes on the back, or male Bidoof having more "tail tufts". Although, even some of those, like Jellicent or Pikachu, kinda make me raise an eyebrow. For a comparable case: maybe the female Goombas could be a lighter shade, or the female Bob-Ombs could have longer fuses? That said, given the general aesthetic of the Paper Mario games - and the Mario franchise as a whole - I'd expect explicit markers of "femaleness" over such subtle variations. Do I think that'd be a bad thing? ...Eh, not really. We personify most of these species, so it makes some degree of sense for them to share "gender markers" to reflect those in human societies. That's sorta how the partners go: Goombario's baseball cap vs. Goombella's ponytail, for instance. These are the sort of cultural flags players will expect, so I can't really fault the game for going along with them. (Inb4 I use the Punies to inspire a genderless society). 1 hour ago, Lord_Brand said: Or even more distinct species with female designs by default, such as Birdo. Paper Mario: The Origami King is secretly the pinnacle of the series, because Birdo made an appearance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted April 14 Share Posted April 14 6 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said: Ooh, I like the name! Might have to implement that. And yeah, this "Boss Rush" would be... dubiously canon at best. Like, I don't think if the Shadow Queen came back, that her first destination would be the Glitz Pit. But maybe Jolene could have sone nasty words to say about Grubba when he shows up? Or maybe "He's promised to be on his best behavior!" (Small text: "Fat chance of that..."). Happy to inspire! I've really enjoyed your idea, even if I haven't contributed a ton lately. Notable male enemies: Hide contents Lord Crump Rawk Hawk Grubba Cortez Grodus Gloomtail Bowser Notable female enemies: Hide contents Hooktail Beldam Marilyn Kammy Koopa Shadow Queen Notable gender-ambiguous enemies: Reveal hidden contents Blooper Doopliss Smorg Bonetail Yeah, some of these placements are debatable. And there's an argument for including more minibosses, like Gus or the Armored Harriers (which would strengthen the male side). There's an imbalance, but not an overwhleming one. One place where it's most severe, I'd say, is the Glitz Pit. There are a lot of named generic enemies there, like Cleftor, King K, and Master Crash. Anyway, I don't think a single one is explicitly female. They're all either male, or don't have a gender specified. Maybe there's a "locker room" argument, but Goombella, Flurrie, and Jolene don't seem to mind. I do think this raises an interesting point of discussion, on the best way to represent gender diversity among genetic enemies. On the one hand, if we give the "Goombettes" lipstick and long eyelashes, then we're employing stereotypical symbology, and inadvertently reinforcing "male = default". But, if we make all the Goombas look the same, then people comimg in with "male = default" will be wondering "hey, where are all the girls?" There are, of course, ways to draw distinction non-stereotypically. Pokemon did it with subtle differences in Gen IV - Floatzel having different stripes on the back, or male Bidoof having more "tail tufts". Although, even some of those, like Jellicent or Pikachu, kinda make me raise an eyebrow. For a comparable case: maybe the female Goombas could be a lighter shade, or the female Bob-Ombs could have longer fuses? That said, given the general aesthetic of the Paper Mario games - and the Mario franchise as a whole - I'd expect explicit markers of "femaleness" over such subtle variations. Do I think that'd be a bad thing? ...Eh, not really. We personify most of these species, so it makes some degree of sense for them to share "gender markers" to reflect those in human societies. That's sorta how the partners go: Goombario's baseball cap vs. Goombella's ponytail, for instance. These are the sort of cultural flags players will expect, so I can't really fault the game for going along with them. (Inb4 I use the Punies to inspire a genderless society). Paper Mario: The Origami King is secretly the pinnacle of the series, because Birdo made an appearance. Think about Pokemon's designs is that they're so much more animal in nature that you're only going to be able to pick up on them being gendered at all using a Pokedex for the game to outright tell you. Otherwise a Goomba with some hair fluff is just going to be a Goomba with Hair Fluff. I'm skeptical representation does m much to really help the world in any real tangible way to begin with, but I could get behind something like Fire Embelm where we are fighting real humans and have women on our side, especially when they give us gendered effects and weapons like (I think) Sophie's personal skill and Ladyblade. But when it comes to malicious mushrooms and turtles I really have to ask...just...why? From a social perspective I really don't think it's going to have any real conscious or subconscious effect on the world. And if it's just purely for the sake of a more diverse repertoire of designs and individuality among the enemies, well then, yeah, I'd be all for that, but I don't think it needs to be gendered. We can add personal details to random enemies without it being stereotypical lipsticks and bows which do more to reinforce sterotypes. I'm perfectly fine with the enemies being gender ambiguous mushrooms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Brand Posted April 14 Share Posted April 14 (edited) I could see them going for more of a "bad girl" aesthetic, as opposed to "super cutesy makeup and bows". Like, you know how enemy Koopas have shades and studded wristbands? If we assume those to be male, then the female counterparts could have a similar aesthetic with maybe the addition of a ponytail or shade frames. Female variants of, say, Spiked Goombas could have eyelashes and cute fangs like Goombella. That said, it doesn't *have* to be aggressively gendered; you could leave open the possibility that the Goomba with lashes is a feminine male Goomba. But, I think fans who enjoy having female characters will leap at the idea of "Hey, now there are more female characters!" Ooh, while we're on the subject of variants, what if there were regional variants of enemies, like Pirate or Western Outlaw variants of Goombas and Koopas? Then, gender variants can play into those themes, like a "pirate wench" Koopa gal with a bandana and a black shell with a crossbones emblazoned on it, or a Calamity Jane-esque Goombette robber with a black or red stetson hat, neckerchief, and cowboy boots. (As another aside, it'd be neat to see Kuribo's Shoe reinterpreted as a cowboy boot; Kuribo's Boot?) At any rate, the series already does anthropomorphic gender traits as seen with Goombella, Koopie Koo, Lakilulu, etc. So, might as well make the most of the convention. But, best we steer things back on topic. We could start a separate topic to properly discuss the idea of variants, including gender-associated variants, of enemy characters or even NPCs. EDIT: I have started such a topic: Variants of Paper Mario Baddies. Edited April 14 by Lord_Brand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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