OMG it's a tier list

[Ether]

You keep saying Ike doesn`t need a speedwing because you can slowplay his speed.You can do the same with Oscar`s str.

Once skill and speed cap,Str is his third highest growth,and he can easily just get close to leveling in the map and get his level with BEXP.So using a speedwing allows him to be better short term,and have the option of crowning without killing his potential.

Using a Speedwing just so someone can cap Spd earlier for BEXP purposes seems a lot weaker than using a Speedwing to actually double.

But Oscar doubles earlier with a wing,just like Titania.he hits the same speed as her,except he levels faster.The fact that he also uses it to help his strength means he uses it arguably better than Titania.

[grandjackal]

But why not just start with jill from the beginning and have an A by now,as well as giving her a boost in part 3,where she needs it.Nolan supporting Sothe earlygame just isn`t worth it.

NolanxSothe is a FF 01, which is faster than a 00 02. They also have more time together (3 whole chapters actually). They'll be going much faster, and he will have a B with Sothe by the time he can get a C with Jill. For part 1, Nolan would also like a bit of an accuracy boost as well. Jill on top of it is not usually near Nolan all the time due to flight. She's more likely with Volug, really, who'd give the same boosts.

So then there's Zihark...

[Interceptor]

He basically does the same as Ti with a wing.His str isn`t as nukish,but he hits 24 AS pretty quickly,and you could crown him in 3-7 for 26 AS,as well as Str BEXP potential.

Oscar starts at a 5 STR deficit compared to Titania, which means a 6mt difference since he can't use Axes. This is basically the only thing that makes Titania worth winging, because she can kill things outright thanks to her massive, yet still somehow feminine pythons. Oscar isn't doing any of this without BEXP and/or Energy Drop(s).

I am not convinced that Oscar taking a wing is going to improve his worth the the team. This is like Draco'ing Aran. You get two chapters of "ehhhh" and then the booster is gone for the rest of the game and you feel like a doof.

[Ether]

But why not just start with jill from the beginning and have an A by now,as well as giving her a boost in part 3,where she needs it.Nolan supporting Sothe earlygame just isn`t worth it.

NolanxSothe is a FF 01, which is faster than a 00 02. They also have more time together (3 whole chapters actually). They'll be going much faster, and he will have a B with Sothe by the time he can get a C with Jill. For part 1, Nolan would also like a bit of an accuracy boost as well. Jill on top of it is not usually near Nolan all the time due to flight. She's more likely with Volug, really, who'd give the same boosts.

So then there's Zihark...

I was just using your example.

besides,you can forge hit onto weapons if Nolan is having such a hard time.He doesn`t need to always use a hand axe.

[Ether]

He basically does the same as Ti with a wing.His str isn`t as nukish,but he hits 24 AS pretty quickly,and you could crown him in 3-7 for 26 AS,as well as Str BEXP potential.

Oscar starts at a 5 STR deficit compared to Titania, which means a 6mt difference since he can't use Axes. This is basically the only thing that makes Titania worth winging, because she can kill things outright thanks to her massive, yet still somehow feminine pythons. Oscar isn't doing any of this without BEXP and/or Energy Drop(s).

I am not convinced that Oscar taking a wing is going to improve his worth the the team. This is like Draco'ing Aran. You get two chapters of "ehhhh" and then the booster is gone for the rest of the game and you feel like a doof.

Ehh...I`m only doing this because cynthia is overhyping how much Mia shouldn`t get Adept.

[-Cynthia-]

Ehh...I`m only doing this because cynthia is overhyping how much Mia shouldn`t get Adept.

I'm just countering your claim that taking a Speedwing is a greater blow to the team then taking Adept.

[Ether]

Ehh...I`m only doing this because cynthia is overhyping how much Mia shouldn`t get Adept.

I'm just countering your claim that taking a Speedwing is a greater blow to the team then taking Adept.

skills are interchangeable.

For example.If Mia gets the brave sword(either she or Z will use it,and defense is a priority for the DB),then she doesn`t even need adept.once she promotes,she doesn`t need adept.We can have up to two at 3-2,we only have one speedwing(since Haar uses the CRK`s one.)

If Titania takes that speedwing,everyone else who wanted it can`t have it,if Mia takes adept,once she`s done with it Neph or Shinon can have their fun.

Heck,Neph doesn't need adept either if we brought over the CRK's brave lance.and Shinon and Rolf get a brave bow from the DB is 3-7 if they have kill issues.

Ranulf can have an adept until the hawks come even,It's not even close.

[grandjackal]

Maybe I'm going about this the wrong way.

Let's compare.

http://www.serenesforest.net/fe10/average/volug.html

http://www.serenesforest.net/fe10/average/sothe.html

Looks like a win for Volug, but he's got Wildheart. With that in mind, Volug has 52 avoid compared to Sothe's 55 avoid+12 from Nolan, or 15 from Michaiah. Sothe has quite the avoid lead. He's got a sizeable 14 HP, but Sothe has 2 Def on him along with lol2 Resistance. So far, we got a 15-18 avoid lead, 2 defense lead compared to an 18 HP lead, but weakness to fire. Take it as you will.

Offensively? Volug has 16 Str to Sothe's 18. This gives Volug 25 ATK. Sothe has an A with Michaiah, which means he's got 20 ATK. He can match that with a basic Iron Dagger. However, I could forge a bronze knife and Sothe would basically have 26 ATK. Even without Michaiah, that's 24 which is pretty comparable. However, Sothe can forge something like an Iron Knife, get me 27 Mt, or an Iron dagger, get me 30 ATK. So with stronger attack options and 1-2 range, Sothe absolutely spanks Volug.

As for leveling, all benefit is absolutely to Sothe. Volug grows painfully slow. Sothe doesn't exactly grow fast either, but quite a bit faster than our 20/10+wildheart friend here. Not only that, there were laguz prior to Volug joining. Sothe might not even be at base. Then it just goes downhill once Paragon shows up. Not only that, but Sothe can cap str soon along with skill, meaning we can slowpad him out at times with BEXP. Volug at S strike would have 30 ATK, which I could get with a forged iron dagger for Sothe, except now I'd be doing 37-39 damage with it. Forged Iron dagger without offense support is 29 ATK. With? 31.

Part 3 rolls along, and I have shown just how effective Sothe can be with the beastslayer bronze strat. Volug however, can cast off Wildheart, giving him a severe spike. However, his chances of having a real support are slim, and most likely a C with Jill or something. They'd both basically have the same base avoid, but Sothe's got a support already built up. Now he's got 3 defense on Sothe, along with now 12 HP. Still, Volug's got a solid lead. He's now also packing 36 MT, but it doesn't really matter at thsi point in hte game, since Sothe's still one of our most effective walls, Sothe has more weapons available to forge, and Sothe still has range. Now on top of that, Volug has introduced a new weakness of his, that being transformation issues. Volug might be great, but now he has to deal with being great half the time. Sothe's got utter freedom. I'd say Sothe wins here too.

Part 4? Well let's say Volug got to level 25, while Sothe got to 20/1. Volug would have 45 Mt with SS Strike. With a forged Silver Knife, Sothe would be behind by 3 mt. Even the baselard would be 2 mt behind. Sothe though still has range, but Volug does have his leads. Avoid? Volug's got 90, Sothe's got 87. Volug's probably got an actual support by now. However, do keep in mind how rediculous 10 levels is for someone who was basically 20/10 and is now 20/20/10. That was basically 2 levels above what Sothe would be at the start of part 3. But he's got the defensive leads. Only wins defense by 1, but also has a 14 HP lead again. Sothe at least has a mastery though, as crummy as it is. It still allows him to bring someone down to 1 HP regardless of weapon, and could kill someone if I land a Bane on the first strike and can at least do 1 damage. Crummy as it is, Volug has no mastery to speak of. He's not anywhere near level 30, and I can't give him a sign until then. Do keep in mind once Sothe once again caps Str, I can once again slowpad his levels to get him extra speed, luck and skill.

Endgame? Well it's a bit of a deadlock against Volug. He'd need a laguz gem of which has it's obvious problems, might still not have a mastery, and he also has to take a unit slot, of which Sothe does not. Advantage Sothe already.

Why do I hear the Jaws music?

Other advantages include: Attacking from ledges, Stealing, Picking doors and chests, and my favorite: Not taking a crown to promote, nor taking anything to get his mastery, as crummy as it is.

Edited August 26, 2009 by Robo Ky

[Zkirsche]

The brave sword is useful in part 1 and 3-12, and it's uses are very limited. Plus, it's very sought after, Ike would no longer care for Mia's atk with the brave sword, for example, crowned Gatrie can kill SM's now. So yeah, the brave sword use in part 3 will probably hurt Mia more than help her.

Edit: @Robo KY:

Looks like a win for Volug, but he's got Wildheart. With that in mind, Volug has 52 avoid compared to Sothe's 55 avoid+12 from Nolan, or 15 from Michaiah. Sothe has quite the avoid lead. He's got a sizeable 14 HP, but Sothe has 2 Def on him along with lol2 Resistance. So far, we got a 15-18 avoid lead, 2 defense lead compared to an 18 HP lead, but weakness to fire. Take it as you will.

For Sothe's 2 Def lead to actually start to matter, they both have to be hit 8 times with the same Atk enemy. I doubt Sothe will even live that long. The avo isn't enougth to matter much, you even admitted yourself a res lead is lol. Why is it lol? because there are very few mages and they both can ORKO them anyway, Volug can sometimes OHKO them, meaning he doesn't take a counter. This is pretty good. Admittedly, though, you kept Soteh at base, which is also unlikely.

You also didn't factor in that once Volug builds a support, his avo beats Sothe's.

Well let's say Volug got to level 25, while Sothe got to 20/1.

Lol@them both being so overlevelled. But, whatever.

------

Aside from that, idk, a lot of what he said made sense (assuming the stats aren't false) and ignored the uses theiving utility has for the team.

Edited August 26, 2009 by kirsche

[Ether]

Maybe I'm going about this the wrong way.

Let's compare.

http://www.serenesforest.net/fe10/average/volug.html

http://www.serenesforest.net/fe10/average/sothe.html

Looks like a win for Volug, but he's got Wildheart. With that in mind, Volug has 52 avoid compared to Sothe's 55 avoid+12 from Nolan, or 15 from Michaiah. Sothe has quite the avoid lead. He's got a sizeable 14 HP, but Sothe has 2 Def on him along with lol2 Resistance. So far, we got a 15-18 avoid lead, 2 defense lead compared to an 18 HP lead, but weakness to fire. Take it as you will.

Offensively? Volug has 16 Str to Sothe's 18. This gives Volug 25 ATK. Sothe has an A with Michaiah, which means he's got 20 ATK. He can match that with a basic Iron Dagger. However, I could forge a bronze knife and Sothe would basically have 26 ATK. Even without Michaiah, that's 24 which is pretty comparable. However, Sothe can forge something like an Iron Knife, get me 27 Mt, or an Iron dagger, get me 30 ATK. So with stronger attack options and 1-2 range, Sothe absolutely spanks Volug.

As for leveling, all benefit is absolutely to Sothe. Volug grows painfully slow. Sothe doesn't exactly grow fast either, but quite a bit faster than our 20/10+wildheart friend here. Not only that, there were laguz prior to Volug joining. Sothe might not even be at base. Then it just goes downhill once Paragon shows up. Not only that, but Sothe can cap str soon along with skill, meaning we can slowpad him out at times with BEXP. Volug at S strike would have 30 ATK, which I could get with a forged iron dagger for Sothe, except now I'd be doing 37-39 damage with it. Forged Iron dagger without offense support is 29 ATK. With? 31.

Part 3 rolls along, and I have shown just how effective Sothe can be with the beastslayer bronze strat. Volug however, can cast off Wildheart, giving him a severe spike. However, his chances of having a real support are slim, and most likely a C with Jill or something. They'd both basically have the same base avoid, but Sothe's got a support already built up. Now he's got 3 defense on Sothe, along with now 12 HP. Still, Volug's got a solid lead. He's now also packing 36 MT, but it doesn't really matter at thsi point in hte game, since Sothe's still one of our most effective walls, Sothe has more weapons available to forge, and Sothe still has range. Now on top of that, Volug has introduced a new weakness of his, that being transformation issues. Volug might be great, but now he has to deal with being great half the time. Sothe's got utter freedom. I'd say Sothe wins here too.

Part 4? Well let's say Volug got to level 25, while Sothe got to 20/1. Volug would have 45 Mt with SS Strike. With a forged Silver Knife, Sothe would be behind by 3 mt. Even the baselard would be 2 mt behind. Sothe though still has range, but Volug does have his leads. Avoid? Volug's got 90, Sothe's got 87. Volug's probably got an actual support by now. However, do keep in mind how rediculous 10 levels is for someone who was basically 20/10 and is now 20/20/10. That was basically 2 levels above what Sothe would be at the start of part 3. But he's got the defensive leads. Only wins defense by 1, but also has a 14 HP lead again. Sothe at least has a mastery though, as crummy as it is. It still allows him to bring someone down to 1 HP regardless of weapon, and could kill someone if I land a Bane on the first strike and can at least do 1 damage. Crummy as it is, Volug has no mastery to speak of. He's not anywhere near level 30, and I can't give him a sign until then. Do keep in mind once Sothe once again caps Str, I can once again slowpad his levels to get him extra speed, luck and skill.

Endgame? Well it's a bit of a deadlock against Volug. He'd need a laguz gem of which has it's obvious problems, might still not have a mastery, and he also has to take a unit slot, of which Sothe does not. Advantage Sothe already.

Why do I hear the Jaws music?

Daggers can't be forged,only throwing knives.

[grandjackal]

Maybe I'm going about this the wrong way.

Let's compare.

http://www.serenesforest.net/fe10/average/volug.html

http://www.serenesforest.net/fe10/average/sothe.html

Looks like a win for Volug, but he's got Wildheart. With that in mind, Volug has 52 avoid compared to Sothe's 55 avoid+12 from Nolan, or 15 from Michaiah. Sothe has quite the avoid lead. He's got a sizeable 14 HP, but Sothe has 2 Def on him along with lol2 Resistance. So far, we got a 15-18 avoid lead, 2 defense lead compared to an 18 HP lead, but weakness to fire. Take it as you will.

Offensively? Volug has 16 Str to Sothe's 18. This gives Volug 25 ATK. Sothe has an A with Michaiah, which means he's got 20 ATK. He can match that with a basic Iron Dagger. However, I could forge a bronze knife and Sothe would basically have 26 ATK. Even without Michaiah, that's 24 which is pretty comparable. However, Sothe can forge something like an Iron Knife, get me 27 Mt, or an Iron dagger, get me 30 ATK. So with stronger attack options and 1-2 range, Sothe absolutely spanks Volug.

As for leveling, all benefit is absolutely to Sothe. Volug grows painfully slow. Sothe doesn't exactly grow fast either, but quite a bit faster than our 20/10+wildheart friend here. Not only that, there were laguz prior to Volug joining. Sothe might not even be at base. Then it just goes downhill once Paragon shows up. Not only that, but Sothe can cap str soon along with skill, meaning we can slowpad him out at times with BEXP. Volug at S strike would have 30 ATK, which I could get with a forged iron dagger for Sothe, except now I'd be doing 37-39 damage with it. Forged Iron dagger without offense support is 29 ATK. With? 31.

Part 3 rolls along, and I have shown just how effective Sothe can be with the beastslayer bronze strat. Volug however, can cast off Wildheart, giving him a severe spike. However, his chances of having a real support are slim, and most likely a C with Jill or something. They'd both basically have the same base avoid, but Sothe's got a support already built up. Now he's got 3 defense on Sothe, along with now 12 HP. Still, Volug's got a solid lead. He's now also packing 36 MT, but it doesn't really matter at thsi point in hte game, since Sothe's still one of our most effective walls, Sothe has more weapons available to forge, and Sothe still has range. Now on top of that, Volug has introduced a new weakness of his, that being transformation issues. Volug might be great, but now he has to deal with being great half the time. Sothe's got utter freedom. I'd say Sothe wins here too.

Part 4? Well let's say Volug got to level 25, while Sothe got to 20/1. Volug would have 45 Mt with SS Strike. With a forged Silver Knife, Sothe would be behind by 3 mt. Even the baselard would be 2 mt behind. Sothe though still has range, but Volug does have his leads. Avoid? Volug's got 90, Sothe's got 87. Volug's probably got an actual support by now. However, do keep in mind how rediculous 10 levels is for someone who was basically 20/10 and is now 20/20/10. That was basically 2 levels above what Sothe would be at the start of part 3. But he's got the defensive leads. Only wins defense by 1, but also has a 14 HP lead again. Sothe at least has a mastery though, as crummy as it is. It still allows him to bring someone down to 1 HP regardless of weapon, and could kill someone if I land a Bane on the first strike and can at least do 1 damage. Crummy as it is, Volug has no mastery to speak of. He's not anywhere near level 30, and I can't give him a sign until then. Do keep in mind once Sothe once again caps Str, I can once again slowpad his levels to get him extra speed, luck and skill.

Endgame? Well it's a bit of a deadlock against Volug. He'd need a laguz gem of which has it's obvious problems, might still not have a mastery, and he also has to take a unit slot, of which Sothe does not. Advantage Sothe already.

Why do I hear the Jaws music?

Daggers can't be forged,only throwing knives.

Fine, he matches Volug's might without an offense support with a forged iron knife. I just shown how he doesn't even need forges for part 3, and part 4 is in that case much more problematic ;;>>

Another deal, Volug's fire weakness. Often gets him 3RKOd, while Sothe can take 6 blasts form the ones in Volug's debut chapter. Sothe is basically twice as durable against mages, and can actually counter them with knifes.

Edited August 26, 2009 by Robo Ky

[Ether]

The brave sword is useful in part 1 and 3-12, and it's uses are very limited. Plus, it's very sought after, Ike would no longer care for Mia's atk with the brave sword, for example, crowned Gatrie can kill SM's now. So yeah, the brave sword use in part 3 will probably hurt Mia more than help her.

Except that Gatrie needs to get up his sword rank first,and one of ike's biggest merits is that he's free with his ettards.One of the main points of MiaXIke is that Mia get's avo,Ike gets his own Avo,Ike gets hit,and Ike has a partner that can keep up with him offensively.ike doesn't need the brave sword.gatrie can also use the Brave lance if he needs a brave in part 3.

Plus,the Hammerne is best used on brave weapons,so no need to worry about uses.

Z doesn't need the Brave sword for his part 1 offense,and keeping it just for 3 chapters so mia can't have it is lol.

Please stop sandbagging.

[Ether]

Maybe I'm going about this the wrong way.

Let's compare.

http://www.serenesforest.net/fe10/average/volug.html

http://www.serenesforest.net/fe10/average/sothe.html

Looks like a win for Volug, but he's got Wildheart. With that in mind, Volug has 52 avoid compared to Sothe's 55 avoid+12 from Nolan, or 15 from Michaiah. Sothe has quite the avoid lead. He's got a sizeable 14 HP, but Sothe has 2 Def on him along with lol2 Resistance. So far, we got a 15-18 avoid lead, 2 defense lead compared to an 18 HP lead, but weakness to fire. Take it as you will.

Offensively? Volug has 16 Str to Sothe's 18. This gives Volug 25 ATK. Sothe has an A with Michaiah, which means he's got 20 ATK. He can match that with a basic Iron Dagger. However, I could forge a bronze knife and Sothe would basically have 26 ATK. Even without Michaiah, that's 24 which is pretty comparable. However, Sothe can forge something like an Iron Knife, get me 27 Mt, or an Iron dagger, get me 30 ATK. So with stronger attack options and 1-2 range, Sothe absolutely spanks Volug.

As for leveling, all benefit is absolutely to Sothe. Volug grows painfully slow. Sothe doesn't exactly grow fast either, but quite a bit faster than our 20/10+wildheart friend here. Not only that, there were laguz prior to Volug joining. Sothe might not even be at base. Then it just goes downhill once Paragon shows up. Not only that, but Sothe can cap str soon along with skill, meaning we can slowpad him out at times with BEXP. Volug at S strike would have 30 ATK, which I could get with a forged iron dagger for Sothe, except now I'd be doing 37-39 damage with it. Forged Iron dagger without offense support is 29 ATK. With? 31.

Part 3 rolls along, and I have shown just how effective Sothe can be with the beastslayer bronze strat. Volug however, can cast off Wildheart, giving him a severe spike. However, his chances of having a real support are slim, and most likely a C with Jill or something. They'd both basically have the same base avoid, but Sothe's got a support already built up. Now he's got 3 defense on Sothe, along with now 12 HP. Still, Volug's got a solid lead. He's now also packing 36 MT, but it doesn't really matter at thsi point in hte game, since Sothe's still one of our most effective walls, Sothe has more weapons available to forge, and Sothe still has range. Now on top of that, Volug has introduced a new weakness of his, that being transformation issues. Volug might be great, but now he has to deal with being great half the time. Sothe's got utter freedom. I'd say Sothe wins here too.

Part 4? Well let's say Volug got to level 25, while Sothe got to 20/1. Volug would have 45 Mt with SS Strike. With a forged Silver Knife, Sothe would be behind by 3 mt. Even the baselard would be 2 mt behind. Sothe though still has range, but Volug does have his leads. Avoid? Volug's got 90, Sothe's got 87. Volug's probably got an actual support by now. However, do keep in mind how rediculous 10 levels is for someone who was basically 20/10 and is now 20/20/10. That was basically 2 levels above what Sothe would be at the start of part 3. But he's got the defensive leads. Only wins defense by 1, but also has a 14 HP lead again. Sothe at least has a mastery though, as crummy as it is. It still allows him to bring someone down to 1 HP regardless of weapon, and could kill someone if I land a Bane on the first strike and can at least do 1 damage. Crummy as it is, Volug has no mastery to speak of. He's not anywhere near level 30, and I can't give him a sign until then. Do keep in mind once Sothe once again caps Str, I can once again slowpad his levels to get him extra speed, luck and skill.

Endgame? Well it's a bit of a deadlock against Volug. He'd need a laguz gem of which has it's obvious problems, might still not have a mastery, and he also has to take a unit slot, of which Sothe does not. Advantage Sothe already.

Why do I hear the Jaws music?

Daggers can't be forged,only throwing knives.

Fine, he matches Volug's might without an offense support with a forged iron knife. I just shown how he doesn't even need forges for part 3, and part 4 is in that case much more problematic ;;>>

Another deal, Volug's fire weakness. Often gets him 3RKOd, while Sothe can take 6 blasts form the ones in Volug's debut chapter. Sothe is basically twice as durable against mages, and can actually counter them with knifes.

Volug can also avoid mages with his 9 move,and after he gets his S strike,he OHKO`s them,and Might even OHKO some early ones too.

not to mention Sothe only wins Avo by a noticeable margin if he gets earth.While Volug is guaranteed to get his own earth bonuses.

[Zkirsche]

See my previous edited post on my thoughts on Robo KY's proposition.

Except that Gatrie needs to get up his sword rank first,and one of ike's biggest merits is that he's free with his ettards.One of the main points of MiaXIke is that Mia get's avo,Ike gets his own Avo,Ike gets hit,and Ike has a partner that can keep up with him offensively.ike doesn't need the brave sword.gatrie can also use the Brave lance if he needs a brave in part 3.

1) That takes 1 arms scroll. Anyone else want said arms scroll? No? Didn't think so.

2) Who cares if Ike takes money? The GM's aren't poor. Now instead of restricting the earth support to Mia we can give it to someone else who wants it. The Brave sword makes the Mia support no better than a Titania support or a Rofl support, or any other hit boosting affinities.

3) The brave lance is contended for by a lot of people, having 1 less unit wanting to use it is good.

Plus,the Hammerne is best used on brave weapons,so no need to worry about uses.

Then we have no hammerne uses left for endgame, when people want braves the most. That's great, amirite?

Please stop sandbagging.

Lol@me sandbagging here. You brought up this thing that hurts her in the first place, arguing stuff for Mia is, if anything, favouritism.

[Interceptor]

For the umpteenth time: the purpose of IkexMia is not to give Ike +mt. That's candy, a bonus. At the most basic level, Ike just wants his support mirrored back at him. Now, if he had his choice, some supports help more than others, but the limitations that come with specific affinities make several of them undesirable. Fire from Mia is a particularly good choice because it shores up two aspects where Ike can use the boost.

But improving Ike's offense via a method other than a Fire support does not diminish the value of IkexMia. Mia as a partner is able to keep up with him in all aspects, and the two of them as a team are ridiculous. This is why the support is so good.

[Ether]

See my previous edited post on my thoughts on Robo KY's proposition.

Except that Gatrie needs to get up his sword rank first,and one of ike's biggest merits is that he's free with his ettards.One of the main points of MiaXIke is that Mia get's avo,Ike gets his own Avo,Ike gets hit,and Ike has a partner that can keep up with him offensively.ike doesn't need the brave sword.gatrie can also use the Brave lance if he needs a brave in part 3.

1) That takes 1 arms scroll. Anyone else want said arms scroll? No? Didn't think so.

2) Who cares if Ike takes money? The GM's aren't poor. Now instead of restricting the earth support to Mia we can give it to someone else who wants it. The Brave sword makes the Mia support no better than a Titania support or a Rofl support, or any other hit boosting affinities.

3) The brave lance is contended for by a lot of people, having 1 less unit wanting to use it is good.

Plus,the Hammerne is best used on brave weapons,so no need to worry about uses.

Then we have no hammerne uses left for endgame, when people want braves the most. That's great, amirite?

Please stop sandbagging.

Lol@me sandbagging here. You brought up this thing that hurts her in the first place, arguing stuff for Mia is, if anything, favouritism.

If we have to use things like arms scrolls and have Ike start using cash,the GM`s expenses are starting to go up.

The att helps ike more lategame than now,and that still doesn`t cancel out the fact that Ike + Mia can go wherever they want and rape,Ike + Rolf or Boyd cannot do that,that is why Ike X Mia is such a good support,Ike doesn`t need the brave sword,and Ike/Gatrie killing Sm`s is not worth keeping Mia from the Brave sword.

By the time Gatrie is in need of the brave lance for common enemies,Neph probably doesn`t need it anymore,he has to compete with oscar for it,but it`s not that bad.

You only need 1 use of a brave to bless it.Unless your whole endgame team is marshalls and paladins,you should be fine.

[Narga_Rocks]

Wow, I do a little yard work for a few hours and there are another 3 or 4 pages of posts.

Except that Gatrie needs to get up his sword rank first,and one of ike's biggest merits is that he's free with his ettards.One of the main points of MiaXIke is that Mia get's avo,Ike gets his own Avo,Ike gets hit,and Ike has a partner that can keep up with him offensively.ike doesn't need the brave sword.gatrie can also use the Brave lance if he needs a brave in part 3.

1) That takes 1 arms scroll. Anyone else want said arms scroll? No? Didn't think so.

2) Who cares if Ike takes money? The GM's aren't poor. Now instead of restricting the earth support to Mia we can give it to someone else who wants it. The Brave sword makes the Mia support no better than a Titania support or a Rofl support, or any other hit boosting affinities.

3) The brave lance is contended for by a lot of people, having 1 less unit wanting to use it is good.

While I disagree with Mia getting the brave sword, Ike taking it doesn't exactly make a Mia support equivalent to a different support. Mia is still the best offensive unit to pair him with. Gatrie's a waste of an Ike support. If Haar is doubling he's still a waste of earth. Rolf or any of those other units are all getting attacked on enemy phase instead of Ike or Ike isn't marching his full move. Titania is the best competition except for 3-4, 3-7, 4-4, and the differing move speeds. Also, Titania even with the wing I'm trying to give her still fails to double things along the way in part 3 and part 4 and Mia's 70% proc rate will do more good on enemy phase. So Mia still mostly wins the offence thing. In all, even if Ike didn't benefit from the +mt in any way she'd still be better. Except Ike would still benefit from the +mt because of storm swords and wind edges and generals. In fact, that +mt means 8 extra damage with a brave sword on generals. I think the brave might now ORKO the generals in part 3. Or at least sometimes.

Face it, no matter what anyone tries, or how it's looked at, Mia is, and always shall be, doritos where Ike's support is concerned.

Plus,the Hammerne is best used on brave weapons,so no need to worry about uses.

Then we have no hammerne uses left for endgame, when people want braves the most. That's great, amirite?

Well, the number of units wanting braves is highly dependent on the party. A lot of natural doublers, especially if they can use axes, couldn't care less about braves in 4-E-1. If our braves only have 3 or 4 uses left in 4-E-2, then just don't equip them and Ike could blitz the black knight. Then they'll be blessed if it's best for the units brought, and if not then it likely means the units present would rather use other stuff. But yeah, I'd rather save at least one use of the hammerne for 4-E, just in case it becomes necessary. But I don't see an issue with one or two uses earlier, though it could just as easily go to a brave lance or something. Which is again why I've never really tried arguing for giving the brave sword to Mia.

Well, that and it can be helpful in 3-6. And I don't mean any "better offence so we can finish it faster" thing. I mean it makes the map safer. At any point I can tell Zihark to kill a cat and he will, then I can have Meg/Fiona trade it away. Or pick him up and then I'll send in Nolan to wall. Regardless, I do this (well, I never have actually) not because it makes 3-6 speedier but because it makes it safer. Without it, there could be an injured cat or tiger that suicides on enemy phase but causes damage and a tiger waltzes in and kills something. While normally I'd say 9 chapters > 1 chapter, I'm not sure it makes a significant enough difference in those 9 chapters. Like, it may very well be 9x better on the DB for that one chapter. Of course, maybe that's just because I hate using the hammerne staff and so I'd never use the brave sword often enough to make a huge impact.

And Heather can't steal 5 items in 3-7. At least, not easily. A lot of things have been suggested for stealing in 3-7, but the one item that takes precedence above all others is the crown. Beyond that, I don't think anything is guaranteed.

Edit: wow, double ninja'd.

Edited August 26, 2009 by Narga_Rocks

[Interceptor]

I like saving Hammerne for Fortify, at least one use of it anyway. When you think of how many Player Phases you can save in Endgame (first three chapters in particular, and 4-E-3 in extra particular) just by giving up Micaiah's one, it makes even Raisin look bad.

[Ether]

Wow, I do a little yard work for a few hours and there are another 3 or 4 pages of posts.

Except that Gatrie needs to get up his sword rank first,and one of ike's biggest merits is that he's free with his ettards.One of the main points of MiaXIke is that Mia get's avo,Ike gets his own Avo,Ike gets hit,and Ike has a partner that can keep up with him offensively.ike doesn't need the brave sword.gatrie can also use the Brave lance if he needs a brave in part 3.

1) That takes 1 arms scroll. Anyone else want said arms scroll? No? Didn't think so.

2) Who cares if Ike takes money? The GM's aren't poor. Now instead of restricting the earth support to Mia we can give it to someone else who wants it. The Brave sword makes the Mia support no better than a Titania support or a Rofl support, or any other hit boosting affinities.

3) The brave lance is contended for by a lot of people, having 1 less unit wanting to use it is good.

While I disagree with Mia getting the brave sword, Ike taking it doesn't exactly make a Mia support equivalent to a different support. Mia is still the best offensive unit to pair him with. Gatrie's a waste of an Ike support. If Haar is doubling he's still a waste of earth. Rolf or any of those other units are all getting attacked on enemy phase instead of Ike or Ike isn't marching his full move. Titania is the best competition except for 3-4, 3-7, 4-4, and the differing move speeds. Also, Titania even with the wing I'm trying to give her still fails to double things along the way in part 3 and part 4 and Mia's 70% proc rate will do more good on enemy phase. So Mia still mostly wins the offence thing. In all, even if Ike didn't benefit from the +mt in any way she'd still be better. Except Ike would still benefit from the +mt because of storm swords and wind edges and generals. In fact, that +mt means 8 extra damage with a brave sword on generals. I think the brave might now ORKO the generals in part 3. Or at least sometimes.

Face it, no matter what anyone tries, or how it's looked at, Mia is, and always shall be, doritos where Ike's support is concerned.

Plus,the Hammerne is best used on brave weapons,so no need to worry about uses.

Then we have no hammerne uses left for endgame, when people want braves the most. That's great, amirite?

Well, the number of units wanting braves is highly dependent on the party. A lot of natural doublers, especially if they can use axes, couldn't care less about braves in 4-E-1. If our braves only have 3 or 4 uses left in 4-E-2, then just don't equip them and Ike could blitz the black knight. Then they'll be blessed if it's best for the units brought, and if not then it likely means the units present would rather use other stuff. But yeah, I'd rather save at least one use of the hammerne for 4-E, just in case it becomes necessary. But I don't see an issue with one or two uses earlier, though it could just as easily go to a brave lance or something. Which is again why I've never really tried arguing for giving the brave sword to Mia.

Well, that and it can be helpful in 3-6. And I don't mean any "better offence so we can finish it faster" thing. I mean it makes the map safer. At any point I can tell Zihark to kill a cat and he will, then I can have Meg/Fiona trade it away. Or pick him up and then I'll send in Nolan to wall. Regardless, I do this (well, I never have actually) not because it makes 3-6 speedier but because it makes it safer. Without it, there could be an injured cat or tiger that suicides on enemy phase but causes damage and a tiger waltzes in and kills something. While normally I'd say 9 chapters > 1 chapter, I'm not sure it makes a significant enough difference in those 9 chapters. Like, it may very well be 9x better on the DB for that one chapter. Of course, maybe that's just because I hate using the hammerne staff and so I'd never use the brave sword often enough to make a huge impact.

And Heather can't steal 5 items in 3-7. At least, not easily. A lot of things have been suggested for stealing in 3-7, but the one item that takes precedence above all others is the crown. Beyond that, I don't think anything is guaranteed.

Edit: wow, double ninja'd.

Mia using the brave sword for all of part 3 is obviously better than Z blicking a few extra cats in 3-6.It is a viable option for Mia to use in part 3 and one hammerne use is enough to keep her going with it as long as she needs it.

If Mia uses the Brave Sword,she no longer needs adept,this is important because according to Cynthia,it is more desired than Titania`s speedwing.

If she doesn`t use the brave sword,she can use adept and still kill.This shows she has options,unlike Titania who performs like a mid tier without the speedwing.

as for stealing in 3-7,we have the crown.I said the brave bow because cynthia was bitching about Shinon wanting adept,so I put the option forward.

[Zkirsche]

Meh, there's like, 2 adepts anyway, so giving the brave sword to Zihark isn't a big deal in that regards. Which leaves an adept for Mia and an adept for Shinon. Problem solved.

[grandjackal]

Volug can also avoid mages with his 9 move,and after he gets his S strike,he OHKO`s them,and Might even OHKO some early ones too.

not to mention Sothe only wins Avo by a noticeable margin if he gets earth.While Volug is guaranteed to get his own earth bonuses.

1. With knives, Sothe can kill 3 in an enemy phase, while Volug could be dead by then. Behold! Sothe has done the job of 3 Volugs!

2. Now WHEN is Volug getting S strike? It doesn't just happen like that.

3. That unnoticeable lead is when they're both unsupported, of which he has a 3 point lead. The auto A makes it +18. Hardly noticeable, lolwut?

4. Either way, he develops a support with Nolan faster than most, and puts it to greater effect than anyone else. Basically this would mean Sothe's always got an avoid lead on Volug until he gets an A with Earth himself, which maaaaaayyyy take a while.

Part 1, Sothe is your best until the god modders show up.

[Narga_Rocks]

Meh, there's like, 2 adepts anyway, so giving the brave sword to Zihark isn't a big deal in that regards. Which leaves an adept for Mia and an adept for Shinon. Problem solved.

Well, I'm not that big on giving Shinon adept. I suppose if a situation comes up in which Shinon doing something on enemy phase is unavoidable then having adept to assist in his 28 mt action makes it hurt us less. Still, he doesn't usually need adept. He's got 21 str at base and a 40% str growth and can be slowplayed once he hits level 17. And a 16 mt weapon compared to a 14 mt forge (13 mt steel blade when 70% proc is unneeded and 50% proc is sufficient). Shinon can take a Mist support and get her 3 def and 8 avo, basically the best defensive boost she can possibly get, since Ike or Oscar are unlikely for her. In return, he gets +2 mt, the only thing he really cares about. This means 30 mt for the crossbow if it becomes unavoidable at some point for him to be active on enemy phase, and even more mt for killing halbs and warriors with the silencer on player phase. I'm not convinced that he needs adept.

Also, I know ~45% is a massive amount of bexp for Ulki to take in 3-8, but it gives him an epic proc rate for tear. He's got an alternative to adept. And Janaff with a drop is nuts. I'm just not convinced that Mia has serious competition for up to 3 adepts in 3-11 and 2 adepts beforehand. Now, in part 4 when units have a higher % mastery and can double and 3HKO just like her at times, throw in a crit forge for anyone and with adept + mastery + forge just about anyone doubling with a reasonable amount of skill and speed that 3HKOs is pulling >80% proc rates. She's got competition, finally, but now she's ORKOing so much more she barely needs it anyway.

[Ether]

I`m just saying that Brave sword is an option for her if adept is really such a high opportunity cost.

But anyway,RFoF already moved Mia up,so whatever.

As i was saying earlier.who thinks Rolf could move up?

if he uses a speedwing in 3-2,he doubles paladins and sages,generals and some Dragonmasters,at base level.At level 3 he doubles all of them.

He can level up fairly quickly,and his AS and str go up very quickly,which,to my knowledge,is the reason he is so low,that he is hard to get up to par.

[Colonel M]

RNG-screwing is a perfectly valid argument, because it happens. Ignoring it is tantamount to ignoring that a unit can miss.

The reason I said it was shaky or not a good argument is because I could also do the reverse and assume Ike got RNG-blessed. It can work both ways.

[Narga_Rocks]

RNG-screwing is a perfectly valid argument, because it happens. Ignoring it is tantamount to ignoring that a unit can miss.

The reason I said it was shaky or not a good argument is because I could also do the reverse and assume Ike got RNG-blessed. It can work both ways.

I still like my transfer Ike. Not the best unit in the history of Fire Emblem of course. Probably some holy weapon user in fe4 holds that title, or maybe some unit in one of the games I haven't played. But really, a robe in PoR and some band usage and he gets hp, str, skl, spd, def. Starts 1 point away from capping hp, str, already capped spdskl. After one level he likely has capped either hp or str and after a bexp level to cap the other one def, spd, and lck are 1, 2, 3 and lck is .15 above the next best, with twice res' growth. Slowplaying makes Ike double swordmasters throughout most of part 3 and some of part 4 and he starts 4-1 with 32 speed. And caps def tier 2 and gets much better luck and since spd or def will cap before level 20 he doesn't even miss out on res. A >25 luck Ike for 4-E is easy.

If only transfers mattered he'd almost undeniably be > Reyson.

edit: oops on saying capped spd in RD at base w/ transfers instead of saying skl.

Edited August 27, 2009 by Narga_Rocks