OMG it's a tier list

[-Cynthia-]

Red Fox actually does consider transfers sometimes, not being smash and all. And of all the units (except maybe Giffca), Ike probably has the best chance of getting them

since we basically had to use Ike in PoR.

I still think that Ike and Haar>Reyson, herons are nice but not twice as good as top tier units, which is what Reyson would have to be to make up for the availability deficit.

[Colonel M]

I thought it was agreed on Haar and Ike > Reyson over and over? Unless I'm blind...

[grandjackal]

Red Fox actually does consider transfers sometimes-

Yet another advantage for Sothe! BAHAHAHAHAHA!

[Florete]

I accidentally fall asleep and the topic explodes.

1. With knives, Sothe can kill 3 in an enemy phase, while Volug could be dead by then. Behold! Sothe has done the job of 3 Volugs!

I don't think you can find one situation in the entire game where Sothe can be attacked by 3 Fire Mages at once.

2. Now WHEN is Volug getting S strike? It doesn't just happen like that.

1-8 or 1-E. He reaches SS by 3-13 or 4-P/1/2.

3. That unnoticeable lead is when they're both unsupported, of which he has a 3 point lead. The auto A makes it +18. Hardly noticeable, lolwut?

And that's only if Micaiah doesn't dump him. Hell, Micaiah would prefer Volug. She exchanges 8 Hit for 15 avoid. I don't think I need to explain why that's better for her.

4. Either way, he develops a support with Nolan faster than most, and puts it to greater effect than anyone else. Basically this would mean Sothe's always got an avoid lead on Volug until he gets an A with Earth himself, which maaaaaayyyy take a while.

What about Edward? Nolan still gets good avoid, the same Hit, and also some Def that he wants. And IIRC, it's similar in speed, and due to differences in usefulness on the field, Edward is more likely to be near Nolan.

In any case, it hardly matters. Volug is always more concretely durable than Sothe. It especially matters in part 3 where Volug is always 3HKOd at worst but Sothe is often 2HKOd. By the way, Volug is guaranteed at least 23 avoid from a support, while Sothe is only guaranteed 8. Don't forget that.

Part 1, Sothe is your best until the god modders show up.

That's why he's so high in the first place. Are you trying to say Sothe > Volug?

Oh, but before I deny Sothe in Top completely, does anyone else agree with it. Or is anyone else opposed to it?

[Ether]

Red Fox actually does consider transfers sometimes-

Yet another advantage for Sothe! BAHAHAHAHAHA!

Why,POR!Sothe has lower stats at level 20 than base sothe in RD

[Ether]

I accidentally fall asleep and the topic explodes.

1. With knives, Sothe can kill 3 in an enemy phase, while Volug could be dead by then. Behold! Sothe has done the job of 3 Volugs!

I don't think you can find one situation in the entire game where Sothe can be attacked by 3 Fire Mages at once.

2. Now WHEN is Volug getting S strike? It doesn't just happen like that.

1-8 or 1-E. He reaches SS by 3-13 or 4-P/1/2.

3. That unnoticeable lead is when they're both unsupported, of which he has a 3 point lead. The auto A makes it +18. Hardly noticeable, lolwut?

And that's only if Micaiah doesn't dump him. Hell, Micaiah would prefer Volug. She exchanges 8 Hit for 15 avoid. I don't think I need to explain why that's better for her.

4. Either way, he develops a support with Nolan faster than most, and puts it to greater effect than anyone else. Basically this would mean Sothe's always got an avoid lead on Volug until he gets an A with Earth himself, which maaaaaayyyy take a while.

What about Edward? Nolan still gets good avoid, the same Hit, and also some Def that he wants. And IIRC, it's similar in speed, and due to differences in usefulness on the field, Edward is more likely to be near Nolan.

In any case, it hardly matters. Volug is always more concretely durable than Sothe. It especially matters in part 3 where Volug is always 3HKOd at worst but Sothe is often 2HKOd. By the way, Volug is guaranteed at least 23 avoid from a support, while Sothe is only guaranteed 8. Don't forget that.

Part 1, Sothe is your best until the god modders show up.

That's why he's so high in the first place. Are you trying to say Sothe > Volug?

Oh, but before I deny Sothe in Top completely, does anyone else agree with it. Or is anyone else opposed to it?

I`m not sure if he belongs in Top.His part 4 just isn`t good enough to justify top tier,even if he`s great before it.If sothe promoted to assassin,I would have no problem.But i just don`t see it.

[grandjackal]

I accidentally fall asleep and the topic explodes.

Partly my fault. Ain't I a stinker?

I don't think you can find one situation in the entire game where Sothe can be attacked by 3 Fire Mages at once.

1-5, Any situation where Volug has to deal with two, since he has to do it one by one and he might not kill in one shot (1-6-2).

1-8 or 1-E. He reaches SS by 3-13 or 4-P/1/2.

Pretty much what I predicted in my original post.

And that's only if Micaiah doesn't dump him. Hell, Micaiah would prefer Volug. She exchanges 8 Hit for 15 avoid. I don't think I need to explain why that's better for her.

She has superior avoid and offense with keeping that A until she can get a support to B. Now do tell me with the speed of which she supports Volug, how do we get that in relative time, especially Volug's got move difference on her. If anything, it's Sothe doing the dumping for Volug, as he can at least keep up with him. Sexiest couple ever outside of NailahxVolug

Must not think of threesome, you have the willpower...

What about Edward? Nolan still gets good avoid, the same Hit, and also some Def that he wants. And IIRC, it's similar in speed, and due to differences in usefulness on the field, Edward is more likely to be near Nolan.

The problem is this means wheeling Eddie around. Eddie might give 1 extra defense in exchange for 5 avoid, but the problem is Eddie sucks. Sothe won't die on Nolan any time soon.

In any case, it hardly matters. Volug is always more concretely durable than Sothe. It especially matters in part 3 where Volug is always 3HKOd at worst but Sothe is often 2HKOd. By the way, Volug is guaranteed at least 23 avoid from a support, while Sothe is only guaranteed 8. Don't forget that.

Sothe's got 15 off the bat and a fast one with Nolan. I see no reason to care, as Volug specifically needs another Earth to pull an avoid lead, and he needs it at B. Sothe could pull Bs by the time Volug is pulling Cs.

That's why he's so high in the first place. Are you trying to say Sothe > Volug?

Not specifically, but you can see where they compare on a level. Trying to get Sothe to top, and I wouldn't mind if Sothe were Volug's bottom.

...God, I'm terrible.

Oh, but before I deny Sothe in Top completely, does anyone else agree with it. Or is anyone else opposed to it?

I'm curious too, no one has flat out denied him top, just not better than Volug.

Edited August 27, 2009 by Robo Ky

[-Cynthia-]

Sothe vs. Volug is pretty close IMO.

Sothe obviously wins when Volug isn't around, being the best unit for those 3 chapters and all. It also appears that Sothe would win for the rest of Part 1, there's more consistent doubling, 1-2 range, auto A Micaiah and better durability against Volug's...Mov.

Now come Part 3 Volug's more durable and doubles a bit more, though Sothe has good offense against laguz at least. Volug wins part 4, but the margin isn't as great as the stats may suggest. Sothe can find items in the desert, Volug is a pretty average combat unit by this point, and Sothe has the advantage of being forced for 4-E.

Sothe has 9 Part 1 chapters. Volug has 3 Part 3 chapters, then 2 Part 4 and 2 4-E chapters he wins, that's only 7.

So yeah, if we consider Sothe better for Part 1, I would say Sothe being the best unit for 3 chapters outweighs Volug's part 4.

Edited August 27, 2009 by -Cynthia-

[Interceptor]

Lightning round:

The reason I said it was shaky or not a good argument is because I could also do the reverse and assume Ike got RNG-blessed. It can work both ways.

SPD-blessed Ike can't do much that a normal Ike can't do. SPD-screwed does considerably less. The average performance, therefore, is not at his average stats. Etc. This happens to a lot of units, and sometimes in reverse.

If only transfers mattered he'd almost undeniably be > Reyson.

Transfers should matter, and in my opinion we should add them as seperate entries in the tier list, with specific criteria as to what is reasonable to transfer. Papersmashbladefanatic's argument that we're playing a whole different game for a small boost and therefore we can't count transfers, is bogus, and always has been. I will expand some other time because this is the lightning round.

I thought it was agreed on Haar and Ike > Reyson over and over? Unless I'm blind...

It was agreed generally but Red Fox denied it due to not accepting the logic.

Oh, but before I deny Sothe in Top completely, does anyone else agree with it. Or is anyone else opposed to it?

I am opposed to it. Sothe in Top my ass. He's lucky to be in High. My opinion on Sothe, should I get hit by a bus, is to automatically argue him one tier lower than whatever you are doing, because you always over-rate his Part 1 and hand-wave how horrible he is in Part 4.

[grandjackal]

Volug's a better wall part 3, but part 3 we want to kill things as well. I have shown that Sothe is easily the most awesome wall/killer on the team, while Volug at times fucks up because of transform issues. He can still wall, just his offense dipped. Then Sothe's still got knives.

So Volug doesn't even necessarily have part 3 either.

Sothe's part 4 is utility with treasure finding, and his offense is potluck meaning you could be screwed in STR and still have a dude Baning people. It's by no means spectacular, but I'd hardly say it's fail in that sense. Means I could actually free up special knives to Volke if I choose to bring him.

Sothe being good or bad n part 4 is questionable. However, being more durable than Zihark with potluck offense certainly makes you weird.

Edited August 27, 2009 by Robo Ky

[Florete]

I am opposed to it. Sothe in Top my ass. He's lucky to be in High. My opinion on Sothe, should I get hit by a bus, is to automatically argue him one tier lower than whatever you are doing, because you always over-rate his Part 1 and hand-wave how horrible he is in Part 4.

Or perhaps it's you underrating his part 1 and 4. Volug's in Top (Which I specifically recall you agreeing with), and Sothe is arguably better than him for a lot of part 1. I've shown before how his part 4, or at least Endgame, is not as terrible as you make it out to be. I don't recall you responding either.

[Ether]

Sothe vs. Volug is pretty close IMO.

Sothe obviously wins when Volug isn't around, being the best unit for those 3 chapters and all. It also appears that Sothe would win for the rest of Part 1, there's more consistent doubling, 1-2 range, auto A Micaiah and better durability against Volug's...Mov.

Now come Part 3 Volug's more durable and doubles a bit more, though Sothe has good offense against laguz at least. Volug wins part 4, but the margin isn't as great as the stats may suggest. Sothe can find items in the desert, Volug is a pretty average combat unit by this point, and Sothe has the advantage of being forced for 4-E.

Sothe has 9 Part 1 chapters. Volug has 3 Part 3 chapters, then 2 Part 4 and 2 4-E chapters he wins, that's only 7.

So yeah, if we consider Sothe better for Part 1, I would say Sothe being the best unit for 3 chapters outweighs Volug's part 4.

Most of Sothe leads are pretty trivial.

Volug doubles most things anyway,is actually Sothe`s superior durably(fire mages are rare),and Micky might drop Sothe for better bonuses she can get from just about anyone,Volug included.The only thing he really has is 1-2 range.

Volug being able to take an extra tiger hit is big,because he`s the only one who does it without resources

Volug is still doubling in part 4,and gains actual exp so he levels.He still has a lot of durability,and hit`s 45 Att with an energy drop at base level,so he is still the boss on offense too.(He can go to the desert with Micky or Jill(whoever he supports),use his full move,and still ORKO quite a few things).

In endgame,he doesn`t take a brave or SS weapon,and only needs to be leveled to 25 by 4-E-4 to double spirits without Nasir,and double Aura`s with,and he has 49 att with his drop,so he is still viable.

[-Cynthia-]

Transfers should matter, and in my opinion we should add them as seperate entries in the tier list, with specific criteria as to what is reasonable to transfer. Papersmashbladefanatic's argument that we're playing a whole different game for a small boost and therefore we can't count transfers, is bogus, and always has been. I will expand some other time because this is the lightning round.

Actually, we could make a new tier list altogether, in theory. That could be interesting(also adding in seperate entries for all PoR characters would be messy).

[grandjackal]

Most of Sothe leads are pretty trivial.

3 chapters Volug doesn't exist, 1-2 range, auto-A support, ledge offense, actual offense leads, and later on no transformation issues suddenly are trivial? Do go on!

Volug doubles most things anyway,is actually Sothe`s superior durably(fire mages are rare),and Micky might drop Sothe for better bonuses she can get from just about anyone,Volug included.The only thing he really has is 1-2 range.

Sothe's already hard-assed as is, and dropping an A for a C does not suddenly get me better boosts.

Volug being able to take an extra tiger hit is big,because he`s the only one who does it without resources

Except ya know, he can't. Also know what doesn't drain resources? Not having a transformation gauge. Sothe can be the ultimate offense/defense with fucking bronze and a beastslayer.

Volug is still doubling in part 4,and gains actual exp so he levels.He still has a lot of durability,and hit`s 45 Att with an energy drop at base level,so he is still the boss on offense too.(He can go to the desert with Micky or Jill(whoever he supports),use his full move,and still ORKO quite a few things).

This much is true, though in exchange with Bane, unless you can show Volug consistantly ORKOs, Sothe can at least leave something weak enough for anyone to kill. This also allows Sothe to ORKO as long as he activates Bane the first strike and can at elast do one damage. This means I can give my special knives to a special guy who puts them to better use until then, or vice versa. I think his name is Volke, heard he was pretty decent endgame as well.

In endgame,he doesn`t take a brave or SS weapon,and only needs to be leveled to 25 by 4-E-4 to double spirits without Nasir,and double Aura`s with,and he has 49 att with his drop,so he is still viable.

No, he always needs Nasir. You need 39 speed to double without Nasir,and unfortunately Volgu's cap tells him to fuck off. Sothe's got a better chance by default, as he at least has the cap to reach sucha number. On top of that, Sothe's wind affinity is supplying hit, something that actually matters here. Volug's Earth on the other hand is utterly useless here.

Edited August 27, 2009 by Robo Ky

[Interceptor]

Or perhaps it's you underrating his part 1 and 4. Volug's in Top (Which I specifically recall you agreeing with), and Sothe is arguably better than him for a lot of part 1. I've shown before how his part 4, or at least Endgame, is not as terrible as you make it out to be. I don't recall you responding either.

Sothe being better in Part 1 might be a more convincing argument if this game ended when Micaiah Seized 1-E. Volug is incredible in Part 3, RNG-proof, when it matters to be such. His Part 4 is shaky, but blows away Sothe's considerably, and he's not getting in the way. Sothe is awful in Part 4 as a combatant, to the point where I'm not sure he's even more useful than Sanaki, who at least has siege magic and is a really good potshotter. OK, Sothe can find hidden items. So can Heather, I don't need her to open chests anyway.

I don't remember the specific argument that you are referring to, but if it has anything to do with giving Sothe Paragon and shitlods of levels so that he can maybe double a spirit in 4-E-4, my response to that is goign to be hearty laughter.

[grandjackal]

Sothe only needs Bronze knives and a beastslayer to be awesome part 3 ;;>>

Srsly dude, you think you might be overreacting? It's hard to suck like Sanaki.

[Florete]

Actually, we could make a new tier list altogether, in theory. That could be interesting(also adding in seperate entries for all PoR characters would be messy).

It wouldn't change as much as you think. There are plenty of PoR characters with practically 0 chance to cap anything (mostly pre-promotes), including most Laguz who couldn't cap anything if they got one specific stat on every level and used every stat booster for it in the game. And then you have to decide if it would really change the unit's tier position at all, like with Tormod, Volke, and Stefan, who are perfectly fine statistically (Part 1 for Tormod, and a transfer won't help his part 4), but are rated low for other reasons, mostly coming late and having no support partner. In fact, it's this fact that actually makes transfers for some characters viable at all, because you can only cap out ~11-12 units in PoR reasonably.

The only characters really affected by transfers that I can think of are Nephenee, Jill, Marcia, and maybe some GM's like Rolf, Boyd, and Titania. I suppose I could make separate positions for transfer characters in the event that it actually makes them better than someone else, but that's a whole other argument.

EDIT: Max tranfer Sothe would also be pretty h4x. 40HP, 20 Def, and 15 Res is crazy.

Edited August 27, 2009 by Red Fox of Fire

[Ether]

Most of Sothe leads are pretty trivial.

3 chapters Volug doesn't exist, 1-2 range, auto-A support, ledge offense, actual offense leads, and later on no transformation issues suddenly are trivial? Do go on!

Volug doubles most things anyway,is actually Sothe`s superior durably(fire mages are rare),and Micky might drop Sothe for better bonuses she can get from just about anyone,Volug included.The only thing he really has is 1-2 range.

Sothe's already hard-assed as is, and dropping an A for a C does not suddenly get me better boosts.

Volug being able to take an extra tiger hit is big,because he`s the only one who does it without resources

Except ya know, he can't. Also know what doesn't drain resources? Not having a transformation gauge. Sothe can be the ultimate offense/defense with fucking bronze and a beastslayer.

Volug is still doubling in part 4,and gains actual exp so he levels.He still has a lot of durability,and hit`s 45 Att with an energy drop at base level,so he is still the boss on offense too.(He can go to the desert with Micky or Jill(whoever he supports),use his full move,and still ORKO quite a few things).

This much is true, though in exchange with Bane, unless you can show Volug consistantly ORKOs, Sothe can at least leave something weak enough for anyone to kill. This also allows Sothe to ORKO as long as he activates Bane the first strike and can at elast do one damage. This means I can give my special knives to a special guy who puts them to better use until then, or vice versa. I think his name is Volke, heard he was pretty decent endgame as well.

In endgame,he doesn`t take a brave or SS weapon,and only needs to be leveled to 25 by 4-E-4 to double spirits without Nasir,and double Aura`s with,and he has 49 att with his drop,so he is still viable.

No, he always needs Nasir. You need 39 speed to double without Nasir,and unfortunately Volgu's cap tells him to fuck off. Sothe's got a better chance by default, as he at least has the cap to reach sucha number. On top of that, Sothe's wind affinity is supplying hit, something that actually matters here. Volug's Earth on the other hand is utterly useless here.

I said he could double spirits without Nasir,not Auras.

Volug is 3HKO'd by the strongest tiger,Sothe is 2HKO'd by all of them

Bane is far from reliable,it only has 14% activation chance at level 1,and

it doesn't go up fast with his bad offense.

Volug has great offense in 3-6 as well.With an energy drop,he ORKOès all cats,and he leavs Tigers with less than 10 HP,so someone else doesn't take a counter.as well,your other units have better things to do than trade with Sothe so he doesnèt kill himself.

[grandjackal]

Actually, we could make a new tier list altogether, in theory. That could be interesting(also adding in seperate entries for all PoR characters would be messy).

It wouldn't change as much as you think. There are plenty of PoR characters with practically 0 chance to cap anything (mostly pre-promotes), including most Laguz who couldn't cap anything if they got one specific stat on every level and used every stat booster for it in the game. And then you have to decide if it would really change the unit's tier position at all, like with Tormod, Volke, and Stefan, who are perfectly fine statistically (Part 1 for Tormod, and a transfer won't help his part 4), but are rated low for other reasons, mostly coming late and having no support partner. In fact, it's this fact that actually makes transfers for some characters viable at all, because you can only cap out ~11-12 units in PoR reasonably.

The only characters really affected by transfers that I can think of are Nephenee, Jill, Marcia, and maybe some GM's like Rolf, Boyd, and Titania. I suppose I could make separate positions for transfer characters in the event that it actually makes them better than someone else, but that's a whole other argument.

EDIT: Max tranfer Sothe would also be pretty h4x. 40HP, 20 Def, and 15 Res is crazy.

I know Devden isn't Danved, but...

You also forgot Mak, possibly Astrid

I said he could double spirits without Nasir,not Auras.

Volug is 3HKO'd by the strongest tiger,Sothe is 2HKO'd by all of them

Bane is far from reliable,it only has 14% activation chance at level 1,and

it doesn't go up fast with his bad offense.

Volug has great offense in 3-6 as well.With an energy drop,he ORKOès all cats,and he leavs Tigers with less than 10 HP,so someone else doesn't take a counter.as well,your other units have better things to do than trade with Sothe so he doesnèt kill himself.

Oh, my bad. Sothe by 20/9 can do the same, your point? In fact, Sothe can counter them, and has better resistance, and can attack from range, and has no elemental weakness...

It isn't reliable indeed, but it does have it's weird uses. Potluck skills are always bizarre. His plain offense is indeed bad though, but so is dealing with a transformation gauge.

Good point ;;>>

Now realize I gave Sothe absolutely nothing to be as awesome as he is. In fact, I could give Sothe a Robe and suddenly he's getting 3RKOd by everything but the single 41 mt tiger, and he might as well not give a shit about cats at this point. Besides, isn't the idea not to have many attack him? Giving that to Volug is actually a bad idea for part 3. See, I kill one cat, then comes in another, and another, a tiger or 2, not only does this open him to more attacks, but it also decreases his gauge faster.

One time stat boosters bite a laguz in the ass...

[Colonel M]

SPD-blessed Ike can't do much that a normal Ike can't do. SPD-screwed does considerably less. The average performance, therefore, is not at his average stats. Etc. This happens to a lot of units, and sometimes in reverse.

A Spd-blessed Ike can survive a round against the Black Knight or can double some more units. I could make the argument of a Spd-blessed Meg and it wouldn't get anywhere.

[Ether]

Actually, we could make a new tier list altogether, in theory. That could be interesting(also adding in seperate entries for all PoR characters would be messy).

It wouldn't change as much as you think. There are plenty of PoR characters with practically 0 chance to cap anything (mostly pre-promotes), including most Laguz who couldn't cap anything if they got one specific stat on every level and used every stat booster for it in the game. And then you have to decide if it would really change the unit's tier position at all, like with Tormod, Volke, and Stefan, who are perfectly fine statistically (Part 1 for Tormod, and a transfer won't help his part 4), but are rated low for other reasons, mostly coming late and having no support partner. In fact, it's this fact that actually makes transfers for some characters viable at all, because you can only cap out ~11-12 units in PoR reasonably.

The only characters really affected by transfers that I can think of are Nephenee, Jill, Marcia, and maybe some GM's like Rolf, Boyd, and Titania. I suppose I could make separate positions for transfer characters in the event that it actually makes them better than someone else, but that's a whole other argument.

EDIT: Max tranfer Sothe would also be pretty h4x. 40HP, 20 Def, and 15 Res is crazy.

I know Devden isn't Danved, but...

You also forgot Mak, possibly Astrid

I said he could double spirits without Nasir,not Auras.

Volug is 3HKO'd by the strongest tiger,Sothe is 2HKO'd by all of them

Bane is far from reliable,it only has 14% activation chance at level 1,and

it doesn't go up fast with his bad offense.

Volug has great offense in 3-6 as well.With an energy drop,he ORKOès all cats,and he leavs Tigers with less than 10 HP,so someone else doesn't take a counter.as well,your other units have better things to do than trade with Sothe so he doesnèt kill himself.

Oh, my bad. Sothe by 20/9 can do the same, your point? In fact, Sothe can counter them, and has better resistance, and can attack from range, and has no elemental weakness...

It isn't reliable indeed, but it does have it's weird uses. Potluck skills are always bizarre. His plain offense is indeed bad though, but so is dealing with a transformation gauge.

Good point ;;>>

Now realize I gave Sothe absolutely nothing to be as awesome as he is. In fact, I could give Sothe a Robe and suddenly he's getting 3RKOd by everything but the single 41 mt tiger, and he might as well not give a shit about cats at this point. Besides, isn't the idea not to have many attack him? Giving that to Volug is actually a bad idea for part 3. See, I kill one cat, then comes in another, and another, a tiger or 2, not only does this open him to more attacks, but it also decreases his gauge faster.

One time stat boosters bite a laguz in the ass...

Sothe only has 43 max attack with peshkatz.so he isn't doing so well countering them anyway.

A luguz gen becomes available in 4-3,and another for 4-E.So his reverting isn,t that bad anymore.

The energy drop was only because he uses it best,and besides,Sothe caps his hp at 40,he won't hit 20 Def,so he never reaches 3HKO from Tigers,sorry.

[Interceptor]

Sothe only needs Bronze knives and a beastslayer to be awesome part 3 ;;>>

Awesome at killing himself, maybe. Beastkiller does not double cats and fails to OHKO tigers, making it about as useful for avoiding damage as shooting yourself in the face.

Bronze knife action is great. Everyone aspires to be shittier than Leonardo, and this is one way for Sothe to succeed at it.

Srsly dude, you think you might be overreacting? It's hard to suck like Sanaki.

I'm finding it pretty amusing that you, of all people, accuse someone of over-reacting. It's true, I might be, since I fucking hate that guy, but I beleive that my arguments are based on facts.

WRT Sanaki: they both need to avoid Enemy Phase action for the most part. Sanaki, because she'll die, and Sothe because he's frail and his damage blows so badly that you should have just let someone else counter. When it comes to Player Phase action, Sanaki is potshotting for a lot of damage due to her MAG, oftentimes without a counter, and siege magic is actually a fairly decent way to use her that remains useful long past where Sothe can do much.

OK, they are a pretty decent team in 4-3, since while they suck turds it's still a Rout map so every kill counts and she can hide behind his girly frame.

[Florete]

I know Devden isn't Danved, but...

You also forgot Mak, possibly Astrid

I did say "that I can think of," though I'm not even sure if it would Astrid. At best, it might send her to Low.

Not sure if you're just joking around, but Devdan does give Danved bonuses.

Oh, my bad. Sothe by 20/9 can do the same, your point? In fact, Sothe can counter them, and has better resistance, and can attack from range, and has no elemental weakness...

Countering them is a weak argument, as they should all be killed on P phase and many units can't counter them anyway. Besides, I don't think Sothe w/Peshkatz can ORKO them. Also, fire weakness doesn't apply for Spirits.

It isn't reliable indeed, but it does have it's weird uses. Potluck skills are always bizarre. His plain offense is indeed bad though, but so is dealing with a transformation gauge.

Volug can handle his transformation gauge, Sothe caps Str at 28. There are plenty of 1 range enemies that Volug using a Player phase to grass (or none at all if he gets a Laguz Gem) is not a big deal.

Now realize I gave Sothe absolutely nothing to be as awesome as he is. In fact, I could give Sothe a Robe and suddenly he's getting 3RKOd by everything but the single 41 mt tiger,

No, he's not. His HP caps at 40, so 39 Mt Tigers can still 2HKO him until he gets 20 Def, which can only reasonably happen with a transfer. Those are the most common enemy on the map.

and he might as well not give a shit about cats at this point. Besides, isn't the idea not to have many attack him? Giving that to Volug is actually a bad idea for part 3. See, I kill one cat, then comes in another, and another, a tiger or 2, not only does this open him to more attacks, but it also decreases his gauge faster.

What are the chances Volug will be attacked by so many enemies at once and not dodge a single one? And Volug doesn't care about using P Phase for grass since every single enemy attacks from 1 range.

One time stat boosters bite a laguz in the ass...

Check out that Dracoshield and see how Volug can put it to use in a way Sothe can't. At least for part 3, but I don't have the time to go over the numbers.

[grandjackal]

Sothe only has 43 max attack with peshkatz.so he isn't doing so well countering them anyway.

At that time, Volug has 45 Might ;;>> Uhhhh....

A luguz gen becomes available in 4-3,and another for 4-E.So his reverting isn,t that bad anymore.

You make my Reyson and the dragons weep! I mean come on, Sothe has competition with one dude for knives, and one or the other might not necessarily even need them! (Sothe's got potluck, Volke at times can just instablick someone).

The energy drop was only because he uses it best,and besides,Sothe caps his hp at 40,he won't hit 20 Def,so he never reaches 3HKO from Tigers,sorry.

Someone's forgetting softpadding. Every couple levels, he can bexp pad. He will most likely get Speed, Luck, and with HP maxed oooohhh, he gets defense! <3 It also has effects for far longer, like he could use the one in 1-7. Meaning he can wait.

As for Interceptor's first point, I've shown a while back how that's not the case, and he doesn't care to double cats anyways.

Also, you do realize that Sothe's more durable than Zihark, someone claimed to be durable enough to be usable part 4, right?

Edited August 27, 2009 by Robo Ky

[Interceptor]

A Spd-blessed Ike can survive a round against the Black Knight or can double some more units. I could make the argument of a Spd-blessed Meg and it wouldn't get anywhere.

This is not in disagreement with what I said, which is that Ike can't do much with blessed SPD. The BK requires incredibly blessed SPD, and blessed SPD won't allow Ike to double the units he is missing with normal SPD, aka Swordmasters. LEt me break this down for you:

Screwed Ike: missing doubling on Halberdiers, Snipers, Warriors perhaps, Swordmasters for sure.

Normal Ike: missing doubling on Swordmasters.

Blessed Ike: see Normal Ike. Also, maybe we don't have to use a magic card to get Lehran now.

I am exaggerating slightly for the sake of simplicity, but you get my point. He has much to lose from being screwed, but little to gain from being blessed, at least from the perspective of SPD.