OMG it's a tier list

[Florete]

I really can't see Leo > Rolf. All Leo really has to boast about is some part 3 usefulness. Rolf is bad/average for about half of part 3, then starts getting pretty good/decent, then has a pretty good part 4. We don't get much for bringing Leo through suckage. We get something out of Rolf's suckage.

[grandjackal]

So, wait, we're dumping a shitload of resources on Lucia just so she can not suck as hard in Part 4? We're saving the Talisman all the way from Part 2 for Lucia when we could have easily sold it to pay for a few more weapons in Part 2, forges in Part 3, etc., and then spending a bunch of BEXP on her when we could have spent it on, say, someone worthwhile from the DB so they can be awesome in part 4, unlike Lucia? We could even spend it on the Hawks or Volug or some other Laguz.

Seems to me that you're just bullshitting at this point.

I DID say she takes the most resources, but considering you get something better than Zihark, someone who's supposedly pretty awesome part 4...

But the other person's point still stands.

Besides, name someone else who can pull off being an awesome unit just form using a simple talisman.

I really can't see Leo > Rolf. All Leo really has to boast about is some part 3 usefulness. Rolf is bad/average for about half of part 3, then starts getting pretty good/decent, then has a pretty good part 4. We don't get much for bringing Leo through suckage. We get something out of Rolf's suckage.

What, Leo part 1 suddenly sucks? Part 1 is ledge heaven, his water affinity is overall a fantastic boon to his team, there's actually pegasi to shoot down (MINOR point I know, but it's still there), chip damage is greatly appreciated on a team where most are not wanting to get smacked in the face due to enemies being their weakest then yet strongest compared to your army.

Part 3? You know what I'm gonna say, might as well not repeat myself. Others agree on these points as well (perhaps not ALL of them, but...)

Part 4 he sucks, but considering he's been ok part 1 and awesome part 3? I'd consider it being better than ok late part 3 and decent part 4. Not great, decent. I'd rather have someone of immediate use than someone who sucks on arrival, needing resources to be usable.

[_____]

Lucia doesn't need all of that favouritism; as long as she can double (which she borderlines in 4-2) she can 2RKO the enemies at base level and since she's at a low level she'll gain a lot of experience and as her speed goes up so does the percent of units she can double. She also has high crit and a bond with Elincia.

She's also 2RKO'd by basically everything on the map, with hit rates in the 60's, which is nowhere near reliable. It doesn't matter if you 2RKO enemies if you're killed in return.

I guess she could get a C support with someone by 4-5, but it's too late to matter by that point.

I DID say she takes the most resources, but considering you get something better than Zihark, someone who's supposedly pretty awesome part 4...

Better than Zihark? What exactly are you on, Jackal?

Base Level Zihark with a C Earth support has 3 less avoid than Lucia, while being 11 levels lower than Lucia, and with basically the same offensive and defensive parameters. Lucia wins 8 HP. That's the only significant difference.

Besides, name someone else who can pull off being an awesome unit just form using a simple talisman.

A talisman and a bunch of BEXP. You seem to have forgotten that last part.

Edited July 7, 2009 by Ninji

[grandjackal]

She's also 2RKO'd by basically everything on the map, with hit rates in the 60's, which is nowhere near reliable. It doesn't matter if you 2RKO enemies if you're killed in return.

I guess she could get a C support with someone by 4-5, but it's too late to matter by that point.

Did someone factor in leadership?

[Dat Nick]

Surely Lucia could support SOMEBODY. Earth affinity is always awesome.

[_____]

Did someone factor in leadership?

D'oh. Knew I forgot something.

Still, that's 50~ hit rates. Not exactly anything to write home about.

Surely Lucia could support SOMEBODY. Earth affinity is always awesome.

I'm more worried about whether it's built up by 4-2. I rather doubt it.

[charmander6000]

She's also 2RKO'd by basically everything on the map, with hit rates in the 60's, which is nowhere near reliable. It doesn't matter if you 2RKO enemies if you're killed in return.

I guess she could get a C support with someone by 4-5, but it's too late to matter by that point.

Tibarn lowers that to 40 display and while she can't jump in the middle of a group of enemies her avoid is still pretty good.

[grandjackal]

Yeah, supports might be a tad problematic, only good one she MIGHT have a chance of starting a C with for when part 4 rolls around is Neph...though with her wind affinity, she'd put it to better use than most ;;>> Neph might actually like a Lucia support. Problem depends on what support she has built up by then...

[_____]

40? Most enemies have around 65 hit, with the highest being 70 on her.

It's just nitpicking, but it matters.

Yeah, supports might be a tad problematic, only good one she MIGHT have a chance of starting a C with for when part 4 rolls around is Neph...though with her wind affinity, she'd put it to better use than most ;;>> Neph might actually like a Lucia support. Problem depends on what support she has built up by then...

I don't know about you, but I think that any A support Nephenee may have built up by this point >>> 2 Accuracy and 10 Avoid.

Edited July 7, 2009 by Ninji

[grandjackal]

40? Most enemies have around 65 hit, with the highest being 70 on her.

It's just nitpicking, but it matters.

I don't know about you, but I think that any A support Nephenee may have built up by this point >>> 2 Accuracy and 10 Avoid.

Consider the following.

Route split, characters being better on certain routes than others, what the support actually is.

Lucia is shown to be endgame viable. Neph is as well. Think she could have a bit of a fling with Lucia to get a more epic endgame performance?

Again though, this is considering that they can activate a C when Lucia returns, which as is already unlikely, I'm agreeing with you on hte support point.

Wait...Doesn't Lucia have an authority star or something?

Edited July 7, 2009 by Pretty Boi Wolf

[_____]

Consider the following.

Route split, characters being better on certain routes than others, what the support actually is.

Your point? Pretty much any A support, no matter who it is with > Lucia's C. Why lower Nephenee's performance just to help Lucia?

Lucia is shown to be endgame viable. Neph is as well. Think she could have a bit of a fling with Lucia to get a more epic endgame performance?

Again though, this is considering that they can activate a C when Lucia returns, which as is already unlikely, I'm agreeing with you on hte support point.

I don't think you've ever shown any type of numbers that show that Lucia is endgame-viable, so, how about backing it up? From what I've seen, you've only said "Give her the Talisman which we could have sold and a ton of BEXP, and she'll be good!"

Glad you agree.

Wait...Doesn't Lucia have an authority star or something?

Doesn't matter. This isn't FE5. Only the leader's leadership stars count.

Edited July 7, 2009 by Ninji

[grandjackal]

Your point? Pretty much any A support, no matter who it is with > Lucia's C. Why lower Nephenee's performance just to help Lucia?

I don't think you've ever shown any type of numbers that show that Lucia is endgame-viable, so, how about backing it up? From what I've seen, you've only said "Give her the Talisman which we could have sold and a ton of BEXP, and she'll be good!"

Glad you agree.

Doesn't matter. This isn't FE5. Only the leader's leadership stars count.

Considering the best avoid she can hope for outside of Lucia is only 15? For endgame, it's good to have a support with someone who's actually gonna be going to endgame, and not many people that are endgame viable have defensive supports (Brom ain't going, others have better support options as they don't want wind part 3) for the magical part of endgame. C might not be better than an A with anyone else, but a B with her is better than anything else.

I could have sworn I did. Search function didn't yield results? I know I showed numbers for Lucia even without the "massive" favoritism...

Indeed

Oh, really now? Guess it was just for part 2 then...Does that make Cain's 5 stars completely worthless, as he's not the leader? Rather stupid...But I guess that would just make Cain even more lol.

[charmander6000]

40? Most enemies have around 65 hit, with the highest being 70 on her.

It's just nitpicking, but it matters.

140-(27*2+19+20) = 47 display hit on neutral biorhythm and terrain. I don't know where you're getting 65.

[Narga_Rocks]

Oh, really now? Guess it was just for part 2 then...Does that make Cain's 5 stars completely worthless, as he's not the leader? Rather stupid...But I guess that would just make Cain even more lol.

Yes. Just picture bringing along everyone with stars, and if those stars helped everyone within, say, three range. Then bring back the charisma skill from fe4 and fe5 as well and give it to people like Micaiah and others that seem "well liked" but don't have stars, now bring those people and stand them within 3 squares of Ike but not in range of Ike's opponents. Ike might actually have a pretty good shot at dodging some of the endgame bosses.

And she was the leader in 2-2, so that's why her stars mattered in part 2.

[Colonel M]

Lucia's best support it Elincia, supposedly. If only because it gives a reason to use the bond when upclose.

The only reason to say that is if you notice most units are filled except Tibarn, MAYBE a Hawk or two that's going to the desert, and lolPelleas.

Gatrie > Hawks discussion after something? >_>;

Edited July 7, 2009 by Colonel M

[_____]

Considering the best avoid she can hope for outside of Lucia is only 15? For endgame, it's good to have a support with someone who's actually gonna be going to endgame, and not many people that are endgame viable have defensive supports (Brom ain't going, others have better support options as they don't want wind part 3) for the magical part of endgame. C might not be better than an A with anyone else, but a B with her is better than anything else.

We weren't even talking about Lucia's Endgame performance in this part of the post, so yeah. It doesn't help that we're completeing 3/5 of the Endgame in one or two turns, anyway.

I could have sworn I did. Search function didn't yield results? I know I showed numbers for Lucia even without the "massive" favoritism...

You didn't show numbers in the 1 or two posts that dealt with the subject, and you sure as hell included the Talisman and BEXP.

Oh, really now? Guess it was just for part 2 then...Does that make Cain's 5 stars completely worthless, as he's not the leader? Rather stupid...But I guess that would just make Cain even more lol.

Yup.

140-(27*2+19+20) = 47 display hit on neutral biorhythm and terrain. I don't know where you're getting 65.

I was talking about prior to factoring in Tibarn's Leadership stars. >_>

IIRC, Leadership stars only give bonuses in this game if the characters are within a certain number of tiles of each other, though I could be wrong.

Edited July 7, 2009 by Ninji

[Narga_Rocks]

Lucia's best support it Elincia, supposedly. If only because it gives a reason to use the bond when upclose.

The only reason to say that is if you notice most units are filled except Tibarn, MAYBE a Hawk or two that's going to the desert, and lolPelleas.

Except while Elincia might be better with more avoid, she is better served by reyson or someone with +atk for going against generals and auras and ashera and other situations where she needs it for turning 3HKOs into 2HKOs to avoid counters. Or you could give her Adept and it might turn 4HKOs into 3HKOs and she would have >50% chance of avoiding a counter. Until she gets her strength up she might not be 2-hitting swordmasters without it, for example. Keeping her alive without the avoid is pretty easy, having her kill stuff without the +atk isn't always doable.

IIRC, Leadership stars only give bonuses in this game if the characters are within a certain number of tiles of each other, though I could be wrong.

That's 4 and 5. For some reason they made this game have stars that covered the entire map. It is part of why 1-E and 3-13 are so annoying for dodgers, too.

Edited July 7, 2009 by Narga_Rocks

[_____]

That's 4 and 5. For some reason they made this game have stars that covered the entire map. It is part of why 1-E and 3-13 are so annoying for dodgers, too.

Gah. That's worse for my case, but whatever.

Anyway, 5 covers the entire map, as well. That's why Chapter 22 is such a bitch.

[Colonel M]

I only mentioned it because people liked the Bond, which helps Lucia a bit. Though I do agree that a +Atk support would work better for Elincia, especially when she does quad things.

[grandjackal]

We weren't even talking about Lucia's Endgame performance in this part of the post, so yeah. It doesn't help that we're completeing 3/5 of the Endgame in one or two turns, anyway.

Either way, exchanging a tidbit of avoid/possibly gaining more avoid (depending on support of course) in exchange for a better part 4 performance, it wouldn't be so much to cry about, especially since Neph is at her peak at this point.

You didn't show numbers in the 1 or two posts that dealt with the subject, and you sure as hell included the Talisman and BEXP.

Neh?....*facedesk* I posted numbers on her...in hte FE9 board...right, I'll double check my stats.

God my memory sucks.

Yup.

This just makes Pelleas even more hilarious. An extra leadership boost for the Daiens would have been of great help...

...Actually, did anyone check if those stars were for like sub groups, or does it really not work? Example, why would Elincia's stars work on everyone when she only leads a small group? I just wanna double check on this fact is all, I'm still trying to get bearings on RD, as I admittedly suck at it.

[_____]

Another thing:

Do Bond supports require units to be adjacent or within the same amount of tiles as a support?

Either way, exchanging a tidbit of avoid/possibly gaining more avoid (depending on support of course) in exchange for a better part 4 performance, it wouldn't be so much to cry about, especially since Neph is at her peak at this point.

Better Part 4? It actually lowers her Chapter 4-2 and Chapter 4-5 performance, since she can only has a C by that point, if we're feeling generous.

Neh?....*facedesk* I posted numbers on her...in hte FE9 board...right, I'll double check my stats.

God my memory sucks.

Bad Jackal.

This just makes Pelleas even more hilarious. An extra leadership boost for the Daiens would have been of great help...

...Actually, did anyone check if those stars were for like sub groups, or does it really not work? Example, why would Elincia's stars work on everyone when she only leads a small group? I just wanna double check on this fact is all, I'm still trying to get bearings on RD, as I admittedly suck at it.

They only count for whoever is the leader of whatever army you are a part of. No one else.

Edited July 7, 2009 by Ninji

[Narga_Rocks]

Gah. That's worse for my case, but whatever.

Anyway, 5 covers the entire map, as well. That's why Chapter 22 is such a bitch.

oops. Never finished it because I wanted to actually know what was going on. It was 5 years ago, or so, so I suppose I should try to find a more completed translation now, but I think I stopped after the first fight with Mareeta.

Do Bond supports require units to be adjacent or within the same amount of tiles as a support?

Adjacent, like in fe9.

In fe4, were the sibling and lover supports adjacent or 3 tiles? I forget.

They only count for whoever is the leader of whatever army you are a part of. No one else.

They really messed up 2-E, though. I understand the CRKs not getting Elincia's stars since they come late and all, but shouldn't their leader have been Geoffrey who himself has stars? And why does Marcia get Elincia's stars when isn't part of the advance screen either? Or at least I think she gets Elincia's stars.

Edited July 7, 2009 by Narga_Rocks

[_____]

oops. Never finished it because I wanted to actually know what was going on. It was 5 years ago, or so, so I suppose I should try to find a more completed translation now, but I think I stopped after the first fight with Mareeta.

I think I have 3? unfinished pts for FE at Chapters 4-5, so, you aren't alone.

We're getting a little off topic, though. >_<

Adjacent, like in fe9.

In fe4, were the sibling and lover supports adjacent or 3 tiles? I forget.

Thanks. Worse for Lucia, since Elincia can just Canto somewhere away from her. Not exactly reliable.

Sibling and Lover supports and attacks required the units to be adjacent.

Edited July 7, 2009 by Ninji

[Narga_Rocks]

I think I have 3? unfinished pts for FE at Chapters 4-5, so, you aren't alone.

We're getting a little off topic, though. >_<

Thanks. Worse for Lucia, since Elincia can just Canto somewhere away from her. Not exactly reliable.

Sibling and Lover supports and attacks required the units to be adjacent.

Thanks.

Back on topic, I suppose: Elincia could technically canto back before enemy phase, but since Elincia has more def and almost as much hp she can take more enemies in one phase than Lucia and still be guaranteed survival, so I think keeping them adjacent would slow us down since we'd have to limit the number of enemies faced by the pair.

[-Cynthia-]

Doesn't Elincia having Canto make it more likely for her to be adjacent? For the record, she can also get another boost on 4-5 from Geoffrey, he can also Canto to be next to her.

Do not try and solve the mystery of authority stars, IE why people who are never commanders have stars and why the CRKs get no boost in 2-E. IS probably just didn't finish implementing it.

TBH, all Lucia really needs to be ready for Endgame is Paragon, as even at base level she does decently in 4-2 thanks to Tibarn's authority stars. Another positive for her Endgame performance is innate Parity-- good for negating tile bonuses.

Edited July 8, 2009 by -Cynthia-