Mages - Invites Mekkah

[Sir Chimney]

lugh

joins first, free and better sped and skill.

linina can tank and kill, but thats all.

hugh is fine, but pricy (for a good version of him)

and is too late.

[Camus The Dark Knight]

Use Lilina on hard mode then get back to me and tell me she is the best...

Anyway, I am going to have to say Lugh of course. Comes early, double attacks the most (Which means higher damage output, sure Lilina could hit for 30, but Lugh will be hitting for 20 x2), best mage for ranked runs, rarely misses, dodges a lot, can take a hit should an enemy reach him.

Hugh is medium for me, he has the highest survival, but his offense is only average. 10k is also rather annoying and can be fatal in ranked runs.

Lilina is my least favorite, requires babying, her speed is more or less to prevent enemy double attack rather then getting herself to double, bad for ranked runs, and is as durable as wet toilet paper.

Some videos I made and just uploaded (boy was I surprised to see this topic after...)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDM1RGegjEU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxsfsWAopCo

I plan on making more for other classes, perhaps Lilina can beat Lugh in one of them (I'm thinking Bishop).

Edited January 14, 2009 by Izuka

[Icon of Sin]

Some videos I made and just uploaded (boy was I surprised to see this topic after...)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDM1RGegjEU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxsfsWAopCo

I plan on making more for other classes, perhaps Lilina can beat Lugh in one of them (I'm thinking Bishop).

Interesting area to put your Kings, camus.

Anyway might as well.

In first position I have Lugh. He grows well in speed and skill and his magic and resistance are decent enough. He's still no Marich, Levin or Asvel but he gets the job done for a mage. He also has alright supports with Chad and Rei.

Next is Hugh. He's actually my favorite to use of the trio but I know he's not so great in ranked runs. If I don't play ranked I usually pair him with Rei and Lugh, but otherwise he has little options aside of Niime. He's fun to use but he's by no means the best. It's a pity he didn't get HM bonuses, though.

Finally we have Lilina. Her high magic means little when she's ORKO on the way back by pretty much any non-magical unit. She's somewhat trainable in ranked HM if you really care about the Experience rank that much, but she's not worth it.

[Camus The Dark Knight]

Interesting area to put your Kings, camus.

Had to make sure they didn't get in the way :(

Sadly Lance had to stay in the bottom left because of event data.

:P

[SupremeRulerOfJugdral]

Sorry it took so long to post this… *digs for ROM*

Lugh is obviously the best mage.

Why did you even make this thread?

Ross can easily pwn Amelia and Ewan, that didn't stop from anyone starting a Trainee thread in the FE8 forums.

But don't reply to that. Wrong forum to do so.

Anyways, I've arena abused all of them to level 20/20 Sages. Here are the results:

Lilina: HP:40 Mag:30 Skl:15 Spd:19 Luk:27 Def:5 Res:19

Lugh: HP:34 Mag:23 Skl:27 Spd:25 Luk:18 Def:13 Res: 20

Hugh: Hp:48 Mag:27 Skl:19 Spd:24 Luk:19 Def:12 Res:14

CONCLUSION

Lugh's low HP won't matter because of his amazing avoid. His magic is nothing to sneeze at, either. Highest in both Def and Res.

Lilina's skill fails like hell, but her luck negates the chance of getting criticaled. Her HP is superior to Lugh's, but her speed falls short. Besides, 30Mag+Forblaze=yum.

Hugh is pretty much smack in the middle, with an astounding 48HP. A very good magic tank, if you need one. His speed almost ties with Lugh's, as well as his Def.

SO....................

Hugh has the chance to be the best, but only if you pay the 10K.

Lugh probably takes 1st place for amazing speed, which is usually the clincher for me.

Lilina is a delicate item, and can only be amazing if you work on her. But don't you worry; she will be worth the babystting.

Edited January 14, 2009 by SupremeRulerOfJugdral

[Mekkah]

You're basing it all on some things you point out on _RNG drawn stats_. It is like me taking three dice, rolling them and saying one of them is better than the other based on one throw.

[luigi bros]

Use Lilina on hard mode then get back to me and tell me she is the best...

I used Lillina in hard and she was the best. She was like two levels ahead of Lugh so I don't think that matters.

Both Lillina and Lugh were attackeed by wyvern riders well two on Lillina Lillina dodged one and took a hit from the other but survived. Lugh got targeted and died in one hit.

[SupremeRulerOfJugdral]

You're basing it all on some things you point out on _RNG drawn stats_. It is like me taking three dice, rolling them and saying one of them is better than the other based on one throw.

Completely true, but you're pretty much finding a less blunt way to say

"I want you to play 5 to 10 runthroughs of FE6, use all three mages all the time, Arena Abuse them to lvl 20/20 sages and then list them all, to see what the basic outcome is."

No one will do that, unless they have a big motivation.

The result of one test, however small or far-fetched it is, usually will become the epitome of other results of the same tests.

[Lord Raven]

You're wrong on so many levels.

We have this if we want to find the "epitome of all their results." It even accounts probability - just click on a stat right after you click on a character.

[SupremeRulerOfJugdral]

You're wrong on so many levels.

We have this if we want to find the "epitome of all their results." It even accounts probability - just click on a stat right after you click on a character.

I'm impressed.

At any rate, I refuse to accept the fact that my results posted previously wasn't even remotely similar to most people's results.

[Mekkah]

Believe what you like, and I'll claim the same for my dice rolls.

Another problem with those 20/20 stats is that people in FE6 don't hit 20/20, and even if they do it doesn't represent the game at all, just the very end of it. Lilina and Hugh's underleveledness has to be taken into account.

[SupremeRulerOfJugdral]

But that just means that Lugh and Lilina have more potential to gain more stat growhts as they level up. It's the same with Wolt, Ward, Wendy and others. They only need a little babysitting for them to become gargantuan monsters.

[Reikken]

best mage at becoming a gargantuan monster by the end? I dunno. It depends on what a gargantuan monster is.

best mage at aiding in a quick/efficient hard mode run? Lugh by far.

[SupremeRulerOfJugdral]

The gargantuan monster is whatever you want it to be, in terms of tanking, speeding things up, overall efficiency, whatever.

Many weaklings at first seem to become "gargantuan monsters" at end.

[Mekkah]

Almost anyone becomes such a "monster" at the end, and if you interpret the stats correctly, you may even notice that Lilina, despite being a "monster", is still worse off than Lugh.

Anyway, being a "monster" in itself has no real value.

[luigi bros]

Anyway, being a "monster" in itself has no real value.

I think it does because being a great unit is always great.

[Mekkah]

Lilina is no more of a monster than Lugh is, and "being a monster" is something a random user on the internet assigned. I could say Lugh is a "Rick Roller" when he hits 20/20, and it would have no value either.

[Camus The Dark Knight]

I used Lillina in hard and she was the best. She was like two levels ahead of Lugh so I don't think that matters.

Both Lillina and Lugh were attackeed by wyvern riders well two on Lillina Lillina dodged one and took a hit from the other but survived. Lugh got targeted and died in one hit.

Good to see you lucked out.

Keep in mind on average though, this would not have happened. I have no problem with making your judgment on opinion, please at least try to take a few things in to account before stating it as a fact.

In the end it comes down to play-style, play-styles vary. I personally alter my play-style each time I do a run to get experience with it, I have done rushing runs, turtle runs, arena abuse runs, class-only runs, affinity-only, and the kind of runs where someone pushes luck to the limit.

The most effective way is to rush, rushing will net you the best rating and will beat the game the fastest, if you goal is merely beating the game, then by all means go with what you want, but when it comes down to fast ranked runs, Lugh overshadows Lilina because of his increased survival and earlier joining time. In a ranked run, as stated, Lugh has increased survival and join time, so where is Lilina's advantage?

She has her increased attack, but you must remember, there is alternative means to make up for it, such as the Mamkute killing debate, Durundal comes early, and you won't start seeing Mamkutes until well after someone is promoted and has an S in swords (save that one boss who has piss poor HP and MDF), in addition, you should also have more by that time. Similar alternatives can be found for other things, Lugh included. However, when it comes down to choosing one, Lugh would be the more effective one to choose.

I have used Lilina in ranked runs, but doing so was for increased challenge.

[_____]

The gargantuan monster is whatever you want it to be, in terms of tanking, speeding things up, overall efficiency, whatever.

Both of which Lilina can not do. :/

[SupremeRulerOfJugdral]

I dunno, if you put Lilina to snipe over walls, she definately speeds things up for destroying those nasty snipers. Overall efficiency, goes to Lugh, however, because his mag, skl, spd, luck, and res all came pretty good for me.

[Seph]

You're letting LILINA snipe SNIPERS over walls? Snipers are accurate and fast, they may even double Lilina.

Coupled with her crappy durability..

Edited January 16, 2009 by Shanan

[SupremeRulerOfJugdral]

You're letting LILINA snipe SNIPERS over walls? Snipers are accurate and fast, they may even double Lilina.

Coupled with her crappy durability..

Hmm. Lilina has 4con? with the weight of fire, which is 1 wght, she has 3 AS to the least. With her 19 speed, which lilina had, that puts her at 22 AS, which may be hard to get to 26 unless it was an iron bow. Most generic snipers, I thought, had 20-ish speed and 8 con at most. Combo that with a pretty heavy bow, like a silver bow, and it'll put the AS down to like, what, 19?

There are probably many facts wrong in here, I never check generic averages.

[Reikken]

AS loss is never negative. Weapons (unless they give a shiny green spd bonus) can only reduce AS or do nothing. Never can they add AS.

Also, Lilina has far less than 19 spd for the vast majority of the game. She starts with 4, and she averages 10~14 around midway through.

Edited January 16, 2009 by Reikken

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Hmm. Lilina has 4con? with the weight of fire, which is 1 wght, she has 3 AS to the least. With her 19 speed, which lilina had, that puts her at 22 AS, which may be hard to get to 26 unless it was an iron bow. Most generic snipers, I thought, had 20-ish speed and 8 con at most. Combo that with a pretty heavy bow, like a silver bow, and it'll put the AS down to like, what, 19?

There are probably many facts wrong in here, I never check generic averages.

... If Lilina's SPD is 19, her max AS is 19. The AS loss only happens if the weapon's WT is higher than the User's CON, otherwise, there is no AS loss and the AS is = SPD stat.

Silver Bow's WT is 6.

[Camus The Dark Knight]

I must point out generic snipers are not fast, although snipers have always been a quick class throughout most FE games, they are not so in the GBA ones.

Sniper Growth Rates

HP-65

STR-30

SKL-30

SPD-20

DEF-15

MDF-15

LUK-30

Sniper Base Stats

HP-21

STR-7

SKL-6

SPD-5

DEF-5

MDF-2

(LUK-0)

Average level 10 sniper stats (FE6 gives 20 extra levels to promoted unit to represent their unpromoted levels)

HP-40

STR-16

SKL-15

SPD-11

DEF-9

MDF-6

LUK-9

While certainly capable of double attacking, it's unlikely they will, even for Lilina.

Hard mode on the other hand...

EDIT: Generic Snipers have 8 build/con, so a silver bow would not weigh them down. With a silver bow equipped, we can expect a level 10 sniper's attack stats to be.

Attack Power- 29

Hit Rate- 105 (104 if rounded down)

Evasion- 31

Critical Hit- 8 (7 if rounded down)

Attack Speed- 11

I can't remember if the game rounds up or down when determining attack stats.

Edited January 17, 2009 by Izuka