Melee At's aren't glitches!

[Krevin]

Link does have a wavedash but it's short as hell and it's almost useless.

Its entirely useless. Why would you want to go the length of Pichu's foot when you could run at least 4 times as far in the same amount of time?

*sigh* sadly, if they're friend gets JV 5-stocked by someone who just learned how to waveshine, I would also assume that the friend just plain sucks because Melee is more about smarts than tech. Aniki, a link player from Japan is pretty good and would do pretty well against Ken doesn't wavedash. Azen, a player from the US relies more on mindgames than tech skills and does better than most people. M2K is technical, but he's also VERY smart and tends to know what you're going to do ahead of time. People who say that just because someone learned something like waveshine will make them infinitely better is a lie. It does make them better and gives them more options, but it's primarily about how you approach the game. However, every pro these days has to know wavedashing and L-Canceling.

Anyway, it's old news that the ATs aren't glitches. Wavedashing is just a byproduct of the air dodging mechanic where you gain instant momentum from air dodging, and where you slide on the ground from momentum whether if it's from being hit or whatever (like how when Marth d-tilts you at a low %, you slide back from the hit)

I was over-exaggerating to prove a point. Playing with absolutely none of the popular Melee AT's gives you a disadvantage against players who can efficiently use them.

The meta games was built around it

Wavedashing is ones movement to an extent

lol yeah

most of the cast is built around it

Falco and fox are high tier because of it

Mewtwo doesn't fall in the negative tier because of it

L canceling is more important for some people, but over all wavedashing is more important

No offense, but you're a tard.

Here, I'll explain it tier by tier

Top Tier: Wavedashing is almost entirely unnecessary for Sheik, it's all for mindgames and showing off. Her running is significantly faster, and her dash attack links into combos so it's almost a bad thing to wavedash as it removes one of your better moves. Marth can wavesmash pretty well, but his true reason for being top tier is because the lag of his aerials is almost entirely post-attack, and thereby he can do tricks like SHFFLing to combo without attack lag. Fox is top tier because of being one of the fastest attacking characters in the game (and because of the ATs that have been discovered thusfar he can be the fastest, but he has been in the top 3 since day 1, before anybody cared about wavedashing) and Falco is top tier because his fast moves and his happy feet.

High Tier: Peach doesn't wavedash. She's High Tier because of her float and her dsmash. Captain Falcon's wavedash sucks. He's got the SHFFL and the Moonwalk as his primary AT's. Jigglypuff might occasionally wavedash when she lands to give herself a slight boost in a specific direction, but she plays primarily by staying in the air while low to the ground, racking up a bit of damage with her aerials and then just fighting as a stalling mechanism 'til she can land her Rest. Ice Climbers rely on synchronizing/desynchronizing, MAD DI SKILLZZZZZ, SHFFLing, and yes Wavedashing, but they can hold their own without it.

Mid Tier: Ganon and DK definitely don't rely on wavedashing. Samus is a great character with or without wavedashing, because she has things like missile canceling and RRRRRAAAAAAAAANNNNNNGGGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEEE. Luigi's being placed here instead of Low/Bottom is almost entirely based on wavedashing, but as you can tell that's not the case with everyone. Mario and the Doc are speedy little runts, their disadvantages lie in their short limbs though. Link is at the top of Low Tier, and we all know he doesn't wavedash.

Need I go on?

Also, you said Mewtwo isn't negative tier because of wavedashing. That made me lol, because Mewtwo IS negative tier. Worse than Bowser = Total shite

and yes I do alt Pichu

.

[Rehab]

Sheik's dash animation is really short. She moves fast, but wavedashing seems like it would give her a lot more maneuverability.

Jigglypuff without wavedashing feels really clunky and restricted compared to with it, with less "fade in+out" ability which seems silly to deprive yourself of when that's a large part of your game and you're not that fast.

Moonwalking is more practical with Falcon than wavedashing?

[dondon151]

I highly doubt it... But even as you implied in your Sheik and Puff examples, the WD is merely a boon and not an integral component of their gameplay.

I also think that depending on the matchup and play style, Fox can just camp for uthrow uairs and completely forego the need to WD anyway.

Its entirely useless. Why would you want to go the length of Pichu's foot when you could run at least 4 times as far in the same amount of time?

WD is always useful for relatively lagless spacing. The length of Pichu's foot sometimes matters.

Ice Climbers rely on synchronizing/desynchronizing, MAD DI SKILLZZZZZ, SHFFLing, and yes Wavedashing, but they can hold their own without it.

Try keeping Nana synchronized without the WD. Dashing kind of sucks with ICs as dash dancing screws Nana up and stuff like a mobile dsmash or grab is better than a dash attack. Poor traction detracts from ground control while running as well.

Edited January 9, 2009 by dondon151

[Krevin]

The length of Pichu's foot seldom matters, especially with Link since he should be focused on his air-game more.

And I've seen quite a few IC players that are decent without wavedashing

[Doom103]

Wavedashing gives an approach and retreat, without it, the game loses some comboes, but with L canceling and not wavedashing, it makes the game less strategical.

[Rodykitty]

You don't need Wavedashing to have a strategic fighting game.

[La Yodha Stasella]

well, more than combos wavedashing provides an effective approaching which would otherwise harder, good luck chasing Fox and C. Falcon with Ganondorf lol

You don't need Wavedashing to have a strategic fighting game.

IIRC Ken doesn't use\use much wd Edited January 10, 2009 by SAMUS TUTA ZERO D'ACCIAIO

[Krevin]

Wavedashing gives an approach and retreat, without it, the game loses some comboes, but with L canceling and not wavedashing, it makes the game less strategical.

Hardly any combos require wavedashing, and approaching can be done just fine without it. Most characters only need it for mindgames, and I use the word "need" very loosely.

well, more than combos wavedashing provides an effective approaching which would otherwise harder, good luck chasing Fox and C. Falcon with Ganondorf lol

Wavedashing doesn't help Ganondorf at all, you've just gotta wait for them to come to you and punish them for being not-ganon.

IIRC Ken doesn't use\use much wd

Nope, he stays in the air usually. And you can't stay in the air whilst sliding on the ground.

[dondon151]

The length of Pichu's foot seldom matters, especially with Link since he should be focused on his air-game more.

And I've seen quite a few IC players that are decent without wavedashing

The classic "WD back and punish" example applies to every character no matter who you are. Do you have videos of ICs who do well without WD? Because not using it greatly hinders their approach and ability to punish with grabs.

I'd also like to add that platform wavelanding is incredibly useful for characters normally slow on their feet such as Ganon and are an option for platform tech-chasing for most characters.

ps depending on matchup, Ken is on the ground a whole lot trying to land a grab.

[Rei]

IC's need wavedash... Wavedash -> D-smash is really amazing. Sheik is fine without Wavedash, but with wavedash out of shield, it's easier to grab some people to punish attacks than dashing since it goes that short distance a LOT faster. For Falcon, moonwalk isn't too useful. It's good for being flashy for the most part, but it doesn't have that much use overall compared to wavedashing. Either way, dash dancing with Falcon = too good. Falco needs wavedash to pull of awesome pillar combos which put him in top tier. Same with Fox's waveshine which is extremely useful since you can do drillshines or n-air waveshine grab at low %'s on most of the cast. Marth makes use of wavedashing for mindgames and spacing purposes. He's one of the best characters because of that amazing tipper as well as his string of aerials as well as one of the, if not, the best grab range in the game.