dondon151 Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Their priority and range in general is rather mediocre, their recoveries are easily intercepted (they're not very hard to control), they're destroyed by grab releases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze340 Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 (edited) I'm sorry but I just don't like where Link and Captain Falcon sit on that list. My Link can pretty well take on masters of the higher tiers in that list. So can my Captain Falcon especially Snake users...... Edited January 8, 2009 by Blaze340 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krevin Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 They have pretty good killing moves (Ness b and Lucas Up smash for example)They are fairly quick Their throws can kill at about 120% if I'm not mistaken And they can rack up damage really quick The only problem thir recovery is hard to control (specially if you're in the litte circle ) Their recovery isn't hard to control. It's slow and gimpable, but not hard to control. Ness is fine where he is, I was just wondering why Lucas is so goddamn low. Game & Watch made Top Tier on the first list based almost entirely off of his High-Priority attacks. Lucas has strong, quick, high-priority attacks as well but he's in the lower regions of the list. Anyways, my friend explained it to me, though. Lucas' awkward size, weight, and floatiness make it so that almost everybody can chaingrab him. Same with Ness, but all Ness had going for him to begin with was his overpowered PKT2 so it's nothing worth getting upset about. I'm sorry but I just don't like where Link and Captain Falcon sit on that list. My Link can pretty well take on masters of the higher tiers in that list. So can my Captain Falcon especially Snake users...... Yeah, sure, and I assume you think Snake is only up there because of his mortar slide <_< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnell Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Ike should be lower on that list. He's my main, but he's amazingly hard to use in one on one fights. They should make a 1on1 tier list and a 4 player free-for-all tier list. And PKMN Trainer should be higher. Squirtle is a better fast character than Sonic IMO. I'm not a fan of the other two, but they're not that bad. They should at least be at the top of the F Tier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krevin Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 (edited) Ike should be lower on that list. He's my main, but he's amazingly hard to use in one on one fights. They should make a 1on1 tier list and a 4 player free-for-all tier list. Ike isn't hard to use. Just learn to short-hop, then spam his nair (and occasionally his fair) when you're going forwards and bair when you're going backwards. When you land hit 'em with your AAA, your ftilt, or your utilt. Once your enemy is at 50 damage or so, get 'em off the ledge and guard like there's no tomorrow. Also, his fsmash is like a OHKO. And there's no such thing as competitive FFA battling, the only reasonable tier list that isn't based off 1v1 would be a teams tier list, but considering there are almost 800 possible team combinations, it's unrealistic, and making it character by character would be stupid as well because you're not looking for just one thing in a team: You want one character to be a heavy damager + stock tank (like Kirby, Pit, MetaKnight, ROB, etc.) and the other to be good at landing killing moves or good at low-damage kills (like DK, Snake, MetaKnight, Marth, Ike, etc.), but the stock tank could be your killer instead of your damager if need-be, meaning that there's no way to really configure a teams tier list. Edited January 8, 2009 by uıʌǝɹʞ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 (edited) Lucas is very flawed compared to GW. His approaches aren't that good (just jump at people and whack your controller with GW), he has a specific character flaw that's just one more thing to work around in grab release nonsense, his reliable kill moves are at best predictable and few, and his matchups are incomparably worse. Putting him close to a character like Ness is in the ballpark. also Same with Ness, but all Ness had going for him to begin with was his overpowered PKT2 so it's nothing worth getting upset about. escuse me? Edited January 9, 2009 by Mac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze340 Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Yeah, sure, and I assume you think Snake is only up there because of his mortar slide <_< I didn't say snake didn't belong up there. I was merely saying that for a tier that high, my Link and Captain Falcon can pretty much take care of any Snakes. And I've fought masters that use snake. Hell, even my Ike can give him a good match up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krevin Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I've fought masters that use snake. I need names. Your definition of "master" could be my definition of "decent player". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Meh, I still think tier lists for this type of game are useless. Sure, there are bad match-ups, but that's hardly enough to make certain characters definitely better/worse than others on such a grand scale. On a side note, I suck with Meta Knight. I've tried using him and I just can't. Just my opinion, don't let it bother you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Yodha Stasella Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I didn't say snake didn't belong up there. I was merely saying that for a tier that high, my Link and Captain Falcon can pretty much take care of any Snakes. And I've fought masters that use snake. Hell, even my Ike can give him a good match up...in Melee GimpyFish with Bowser totally owns the likes of Fox and C.Falcon, this doesn't make Bowser any higher than his bottom tier, tough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 If Ike is going something like even with Snake, Snake is not camping enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze340 Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I need names. Your definition of "master" could be my definition of "decent player". :( lol I doubt you know him or go to a site call allisbrawl.com which do host tourny's. But if you know a guy name Boss/Kev (Both are brothers and both are extremely good), they both used Snake. If you know Mekos from MLG Gamebattle, the guy who ranks 3rd place in Singles Ladder, Boss was able to beat him 1v1. At some point though, they stopped using snake even though they both had one of the best snakes I ever faced. Another guy I'm sure don't know is *Das*. He has a very superb Snake and Marth. There are Youtube videos of his matches. He also fought Boss with his snake..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 There is some guy called Boss who is very good, but he uses Mario Bros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze340 Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 There is some guy called Boss who is very good, but he uses Mario Bros. Then you speak of the same BOSS I know. He now uses Mario, Pit, Bowser, R.O.B, and Bowser. These are his "For fun" characters while his true mains are Snake and Meta Knight, which he rarely uses now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_____ Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Even if you were to beat him, that doesn't mean that Link and CF > all. If you were to walk into a FE tier list thread and say "lolmyFionawasGodshecappedallherstats!!!11!", then you'd just get the shit beaten out of you. There're more things to a tier list than how good a singular person is with a character. SAMUS TUTA ZERO D'ACCIAIO gave a good example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 The Boss I know of uses only Mario and Luigi and places in Maryland tournaments. They're probably not the same guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doom103 Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Meh, I still think tier lists for this type of game are useless. Sure, there are bad match-ups, but that's hardly enough to make certain characters definitely better/worse than others on such a grand scale. On a side note, I suck with Meta Knight. I've tried using him and I just can't.Just my opinion, don't let it bother you. Charcaters are just naturally better than other, Meta Knight is clearly better than everyone else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krevin Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 in Melee GimpyFish with Bowser totally owns the likes of Fox and C.Falcon, this doesn't make Bowser any higher than his bottom tier, tough GimpyFish admits that Bowser sucks, though. :( lol I doubt you know him or go to a site call allisbrawl.com which do host tourny's. But if you know a guy name Boss/Kev (Both are brothers and both are extremely good), they both used Snake. If you know Mekos from MLG Gamebattle, the guy who ranks 3rd place in Singles Ladder, Boss was able to beat him 1v1. At some point though, they stopped using snake even though they both had one of the best snakes I ever faced. Another guy I'm sure don't know is *Das*. He has a very superb Snake and Marth. There are Youtube videos of his matches. He also fought Boss with his snake..... Oh, so you fought them on Wi-Fi? That hardly counts as a win AFAIC. Wi-Fi has lag, which completely alters the game. I could wag my dick around saying "Oh I beat (insert any good player's name here) over WiFi" but there's a really high chance that I won not because I'm more skilled (trust me, that will never be the case for me) but because I coped with the lag better than my enemy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Yodha Stasella Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 (edited) GimpyFish admits that Bowser sucks, though. The point is "pwning Fox with Bowser doesn't make Bowser top tier", not "Gympyfish believes Bowser should be high tiered because he can own top tier dudes at tournaments" Edited January 10, 2009 by SAMUS TUTA ZERO D'ACCIAIO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 (edited) Meh, I still think tier lists for this type of game are useless. Sure, there are bad match-ups, but that's hardly enough to make certain characters definitely better/worse than others on such a grand scale. On a side note, I suck with Meta Knight. I've tried using him and I just can't. Yet every fighting game has a tier list... Most people would understand the concept behind a fighting game tier list better than a turnbased SRPG tier list. And generally, tier lists are a byproduct of a summation of matchups: if a character has bad matchups against a large portion of the cast, he is definitely not very high on the tier list. In fact, with even minor inspection it is really easy to tell if a character is better or worse in relation to others. Edited January 10, 2009 by dondon151 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Tiers matter for Brawl especially. Brawl has large gaps between characters and tiers, and thus the effect is actually very noticable even in the metagame and the tournament scene. They matter less for a game that's actually well balanced (though they still exist, because people enjoy discussing them and finding out the nooks and crannies of characters). I don't think I will understand why people refuse to accept tier lists. Nobody forces them upon people and nobody tells people who to play. The only time tier lists are brought up against people is when they say that <x> character is the best and doesn't have good reason to back it up which isn't wise to do in the first place. And saying that one doesn't believe in tiers, but knows the importance of matchups fail to realize that a large part of making tier lists is through weighing matchups in the first place. Metaknight is top tier because he has no bad matchups, while characters in low and bottom have either many bad matchups or impossible matchups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krevin Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Yet every fighting game has a tier list... Most people would understand the concept behind a fighting game tier list better than a turnbased SRPG tier list. And generally, tier lists are a byproduct of a summation of matchups: if a character has bad matchups against a large portion of the cast, he is definitely not very high on the tier list. That's not necessarily true. I heard somebody (can't remember where) explain how Great Ape Baby is only a high tier character in DBZBT2 beceause he can counter Omega Shenron and SS4 Gogeta, and the rest of the cast rapes him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Budokai Tenkaichi 2 has tiers? loooool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal Rabbit Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 That's not necessarily true. I heard somebody (can't remember where) explain how Great Ape Baby is only a high tier character in DBZBT2 beceause he can counter Omega Shenron and SS4 Gogeta, and the rest of the cast rapes him. Kinda like in pokemon how a normally underused poke gets beat out by so many, and yet it excels when playing in uber tier where it can't be touched normally. *cough shedinja cough* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doom103 Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Budokai Tenkaichi 2 has tiers? loooool Yep XD I was too good at that game! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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