I wonder if we'll see Dual Wielding next...?

[Rei Rei]

OOooh, I see.

Although the Dual Wielding should be class-specific, like Swordmaster promotion, or Assassin promotion...

[Defeatist Elitist]

No human enemies.

This, plus the fact that there was no story behind it and that there wasn't a whole lot that kept you coming back to it (I would've liked more than just the secret characters, thank you very much...).

Oh yes. Big flaws there. Oh man. Do you guys bitch about how Trial Maps have no story as well? How about Multiplayer on games?

I mean, just look at how many times people go on about how they maxed their team in CC, blah blah blah. Compare it to the other FEs. FE7 had NOTHING except the Link Arena. PoR has Trial Maps. RD has nothing. I think CC was a success, honestly.

[Herr Wozzeck]

OOooh, I see.

Although the Dual Wielding should be class-specific, like Swordmaster promotion, or Assassin promotion...

Yeah, it would have to be like that, but the function itself is not limited to specific characters that are in the same class, hence why it's less character specific.

Oh yes. Big flaws there. Oh man. Do you guys bitch about how Trial Maps have no story as well? How about Multiplayer on games?

I mean, just look at how many times people go on about how they maxed their team in CC, blah blah blah. Compare it to the other FEs. FE7 had NOTHING except the Link Arena. PoR has Trial Maps. RD has nothing. I think CC was a success, honestly.

Multiplayer doesn't need a story to be good; you get enough fun from screaming at each other and bragging when you win.

At least the Trial Maps had some kind of variety associated with each individual map; different conditions, different enemy predilections, etc. CC is just fighting hordes of monsters on the same maps, and it's fighting them over, and over, and over, and over, (I think you get the idea). And the Trial Maps are usually too short to actually require any story. But since the CC keeps going on and on and on until you get bored of it, there should at least be some kind of story to complement it so you can keep going back to it to see what happens next.

And you don't consider Hector Mode/Eliwood Hard Mode/Hector Hard Mode to be something? What about being able to replay RD while changing some story elements to get certain characters on your team? Why is it that those don't count for post-game replay value?

[Ϲharlie]

At the very least, things like branching promotions, creature campaign, etc. didn't take away from the game.

[Defeatist Elitist]

Multiplayer doesn't need a story to be good; you get enough fun from screaming at each other and bragging when you win.

At least the Trial Maps had some kind of variety associated with each individual map; different conditions, different enemy predilections, etc. CC is just fighting hordes of monsters on the same maps, and it's fighting them over, and over, and over, and over, (I think you get the idea). And the Trial Maps are usually too short to actually require any story. But since the CC keeps going on and on and on until you get bored of it, there should at least be some kind of story to complement it so you can keep going back to it to see what happens next.

And you don't consider Hector Mode/Eliwood Hard Mode/Hector Hard Mode to be something? What about being able to replay RD while changing some story elements to get certain characters on your team? Why is it that those don't count for post-game replay value?

What? What? WHAT? There are at least 20 different Creature Campaign maps, and a fair degree of enemy variation. That's a totally ridiculous point. And seriously, story is pretty much irrelevant here.

And I said nothing about REPLAY value. Since, ya know, SS has it's nice little Route Split, and Paired endings shit and all that. Replay value is something totally different. Creature Campaign is simply something you play after the main story is over to do whatever the hell you want.

At the very least, things like branching promotions, creature campaign, etc. didn't take away from the game.

This as well. If you don't like it, then DON'T USE IT. But don't say it's a bad thing. If I don't like a certain character I just won't use them, I won't whine about how they make the game worse.

Edited January 12, 2009 by Taylor Swift

[Herr Wozzeck]

What? What? WHAT? There are at least 20 different Creature Campaign maps, and a fair degree of enemy variation. That's a totally ridiculous point. And seriously, story is pretty much irrelevant here.

And I said nothing about REPLAY value. Since, ya know, SS has it's nice little Route Split, and Paired endings shit and all that. Replay value is something totally different. Creature Campaign is simply something you play after the main story is over to do whatever the hell you want.

This as well. If you don't like it, then DON'T USE IT. But don't say it's a bad thing. If I don't like a certain character I just won't use them, I won't whine about how they make the game worse.

I never said the CC was a bad thing; I'm just saying there was more they could've done with it to make it interesting.

And sure, there's twenty maps, but the problem is you wind up having to play the same maps over and over again just to unlock secret characters. That gets pretty annoying, especially after your third time through the Tower of Valni to get Selena. And also, the maps accessible from the world map are kind of boring.

And for me, I look at the CC as a way of finding replay value in a game that, even if it was a great idea, fell short just a few feet of what it could ahve doon.

[Defeatist Elitist]

I never said the CC was a bad thing; I'm just saying there was more they could've done with it to make it interesting.

And sure, there's twenty maps, but the problem is you wind up having to play the same maps over and over again just to unlock secret characters. That gets pretty annoying, especially after your third time through the Tower of Valni to get Selena. And also, the maps accessible from the world map are kind of boring.

And for me, I look at the CC as a way of finding replay value in a game that, even if it was a great idea, fell short just a few feet of what it could ahve doon.

AH. Well yeah, everything can be improved, especially this. I thought you were saying that it was a bad thing, or that IS had screwed it up. :P

[Posaydal]

If they do introduce dual wielding I would hope they approach it in a more realistic way. No holding two longswords, but having a short sword or dagger in the offhand with a larger main hand weapon, or a small axe in the offhand.

[Rei Rei]

Also Archers could Dual Wield.

Main Wpn:Any Bow

Sub Wpn(defense only):Swords.

[Ragnell]

Dual Wielding could work, but I don't think it will/should be done. Too many other fantasy series use this mechanic, and IS usually stays away from common things like that. Not always, but most of the time.

If they pulled it off well, I think it could be something positive for the series (the double attack method-1st attack: one weapon, 2nd attack: second weapon seems like a good idea). I'll buy it no matter what, but I think they IS should stay away unless they have a very good plan.

[Posaydal]

Also Archers could Dual Wield.

Main Wpn:Any Bow

Sub Wpn(defense only):Swords.

It's not really dual wielding unless the bow is some kind of crossbow pistol. Also, it doesn't really sit right with me that one weapon is used only defensively but basically negates the weakness (no direct attack) with bows.

The Horseman class promotes from a bow only class to using swords and bows, but this is done in the normal way and never at the same time.

Anyway, how I would approach it:

Possibly a new class.

Rather than attacking twice, the offhand gives a bonus depending on what it is. They always count as using their main weapon for the weapon triangle.

The class uses swords or axes only, and the offhands are more like equipped trinkets (like the full guard and things like it in FE9) and are specifically made.

Shortsword and Main Gauche -> gives both a Defense and Evade bonus as it is used to parry and defend; negates weakness in weapon triangle

Swordbreaker -> gives an evade bonus, enemies lose durability even if they miss; durability damage to the enemies is increased by an amount equal to the enemy's strength

Axe -> gives a small crit bonus and user gains 'super effective' against General armour types.

The caps are worse and they don't get any innate crit bonus like other classes though.

The other option is to give it to all unmounted sword or axe classes, and give the game a larger emphasis on secondary items and have shields (both mounted and unmounted get shields or accessories). The Fire Emblem itself is a shield again that only the Lord can equip.

[Agro]

If you don't like it, then DON'T USE IT. But don't say it's a bad thing.

I'm not trying to pick a fight here, but I wanted to point out how poor an argument this is. This is exactly the same as the annoying children on the Creative board who step in the defend their friends. One has every right to say it's bad, as long as he or she can back it up. I'll also mention that if something is placed in a game there should be motivation for someone to use it, possibly everyone. The Creature Campaign felt tacked-on and rushed, where there was close to no challenge, and anything short of a challenge was simply giving you difficult enemies (Dracozombies? Wow, so scary!). It recycled maps, and the only new maps there were had some pretty uninteresting designs, especially with the lack of terrain.

As for dual-wielding - no. I think dual-wielding is a silly, childish concept which should be kept as far from Fire Emblem as possible.

[Defeatist Elitist]

I'm not trying to pick a fight here, but I wanted to point out how poor an argument this is. This is exactly the same as the annoying children on the Creative board who step in the defend their friends. One has every right to say it's bad, as long as he or she can back it up. I'll also mention that if something is placed in a game there should be motivation for someone to use it, possibly everyone. The Creature Campaign felt tacked-on and rushed, where there was close to no challenge, and anything short of a challenge was simply giving you difficult enemies (Dracozombies? Wow, so scary!). It recycled maps, and the only new maps there were had some pretty uninteresting designs, especially with the lack of terrain.

Actually, I think I misunderstood the statement they made slightly. In a couple ways. My whole "Don't use it if you don't like it" thing was an addendum because I for some reason felt that the argument was more about IS screwing up the games with their concepts, as opposed to the game being bad. A game with a bad portion that you don't have to do isn't screwed up by it, because you don't have to do that part, was more my point. Basically, if Sacred Stones was the EXACT same game, just without CC, I think it would definitely be worse.

Anyhow, my point in the end is that CC really isn't a bad idea or anything. You can say it is bad, but as I said before, it was a pretty new concept to Fire Emblem, and none of the other games really had anything like it, so yeah. Maybe it was because I was expecting something different than you guys were. When I beat a game, I don't really expect much added story or whatever tacked on to the end. I was perfectly happy with a place where I could just go around and beat up monsters and level up my doods. But I digress...

[Rodykitty]

I await the day we get a Fire Emblem in which you can equip two weapons. The possibilities XD

This could be a mechanic that allows attacking in the style of brave weapons, but since you're now using two weapons, of course the weight is going to stack up double, so 4x-ing may not be commonly possible under certain conditions.

It would also need to be a skill so that some characters would be able to benefit while others would do with single handed fighting.

[Midnox]

On 1/10/2009 at 11:27 PM, Aurabolt said:

In Radiant Dawn, Altina was a dual-wielding swordswoman. She fought with both Ragnell and Aldontite in each hand. In the Anime for Fire Emblem 1, Rutger uses two blades and the Sprites for Thieves in the GBA games show them using two blades as well.

I await the day we get a Fire Emblem in which you can equip two weapons. The possibilities XD

Nah, not many dual wield, and in case of Altina, it’s just aesthetic. Ragnel-Alondite are mechanically  like other weapons