Rodykitty Posted November 21, 2009 Author Share Posted November 21, 2009 I'll remove you from the banlist. Just try not to go psycho next time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Draper Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 (edited) Any other comments about their performances? Particularity between Chapters 2-7, which is the only time I could see Ogma having a lead (and I'll look at Chapter 6 later to see how they compare then) Edited November 21, 2009 by IOS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted November 21, 2009 Author Share Posted November 21, 2009 I have no particular bias. Since nobody besides Lancelot has stepped forth to disagree, I'll go ahead and make it happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Draper Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 I'm just unsure if Ogma should drop, or if Daros should move up. Might have to compare Daros and Hardain (which will probably be a bit easier) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 (edited) I'm actually going to do a playthrough. Even I am having second doubts on Armor Knight being viable in H5, and it goes back to the MOV. If you can IOS pull a quick argument with Hunter->General incase it still beats Oguma. Edited November 22, 2009 by Billy: Hunter - General Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Draper Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 (edited) Hunter-->General Daros is clearly inferior to Knight-->General Daros. 15/1 Hunter->General Daros will have -3 HP and -3 Def in trade for just a bit more speed (which becomes irrelevant at that point anyways). So if you're running through the game again, make sure to check out Hunter->General Draug and Knight->General Darros if you can. That'd be great. Oh, and do you mind doing a playthrough topic while you go through the game like B2BD did? I love reading them :D Alternatively I could play through the game again, which I think I might end up doing soon anyways Edited November 22, 2009 by IOS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 (edited) I'm actually going to do a playthrough. Even I am having second doubts on Armor Knight being viable in H5, and it goes back to the MOV. If you can IOS pull a quick argument with Hunter->General incase it still beats Oguma. While you're at it, could you use Midia's group+Astram all the way to chapter 21 to see exactly how many supports can fit onto a person? Cause if Midia gets all 5 bonuses from them, It'll show there is no cap for supports, and that Midia's group has the possibility of being pretty nuts lategame. Check chapter 20 to seeif they get the bonuses then, but try chapter 21 just to make sure. Edited November 22, 2009 by Galactica Leader Cyrus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Draper Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 That might be a lot easier to test on Normal, where those characters are at least semi-usable :P From what I've seen of ThunderMan's Shadow Dragon playthrough on youtube, Daros's movement doesn't seem to be too much of an issue. At least not enough to seriously effect his position. Its too bad that ThunderMan cut that playthrough short, I really enjoyed watching it (Plus his FE5 one is finished). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Francis York Morgan Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 I'll remove you from the banlist. Just try not to go psycho next time. If I posted that video with the exact same context as him... you all would have verbally abused me the same way I did to IOS. You'd make jokes about personal experience meaning everything and the whole nine yards. You'd berate and laugh at me until I apologized for forcing my idiocy on this tier list. Sorry for everything else. I just found it incredibly aggravating that you guys figure ogma would gain absolutely no experience weakening either boss so I went off the handle. Thanks for removing the ban. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted November 22, 2009 Author Share Posted November 22, 2009 (edited) I just found it incredibly aggravating that you guys figure ogma would gain absolutely no experience weakening either boss so I went off the handle.You mean you forgot the important part about him being Lv. 10 on Chapter 4?Getting EXP or not, he's not reaching Level 10. That's the real mistake here. Edited November 22, 2009 by FE3 Player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Draper Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Now here's an interesting matchup: Caeda vs. Daros. Assuming Mage->Sage Caeda Chapter 4: Caeda 4/0: 17 HP, 7 Atk (Fire), 11 AS, 4 Def Daros 4/0: 22 HP, 14 Atk (Iron Lance), 1 AS, 12 Def Thieves: Caeda 4RKOs both, and Daros only 2RKOs the Level 1. Caeda is 1-2RKO'd, while they tink Daros (I forgot they have -3 Mt in the previous comparison) Fighter: Caeda 5RKOs and Daros 4RKOs. Both are 2RKO'd Hunter: Caeda 4RKOs while Daros 3RKOs. Caeda is 2RKO'd and Daros is either 4RKO'd or 6RKO'd Archer: Both 4RKO. Both are 2RKO'd Armor: Caeda 5RKOs while Daros 11RKO's. Caeda is 2RKO'd while Daros is 4RKO'd Horseman: Both 5RKO. Caeda is 1-2RKO'd while Daros is 4RKO'd or 6RKO'd Cav (Iron Sword): Both 5RKO. Caeda is 2RKO'd (ORKO'd by the Armorslayer guy) while Daros is 2-3RKO'd Cav (Iron Lance): Both 5RKO. Caeda is 2RKO'd while Daros is 2-3RKO'd Apart from the Knight, Daros is superior both offensively and defensively. Attacking at 2 range doesn't do a whole lot with the huge durability advantage that Daros has (she's actually ORKO'd by some enemies) Then Chapter 8 (Because I'm lazy, and already have the Daros stats :D) Caeda 11/0: 19 HP, 11 Atk (+1) (Thunder), 16-1 AS, 4 Def Daros 11/0: 27 HP, 19 Atk (+1) (Steel Lance), 1 AS, 17 Def Cav 3: Caeda 2RKOs while Daros 3RKOs. They 2RKO Caeda and 7RKO Daros (thanks to WTA) Archers: Caeda 2RKOs while Daros 3RKOs. They 2RKO Caeda and 7RKO Daros Armors: Caeda 2RKOs while Daros 4-5RKOs. They 2RKO Caeda and 6RKO Daros Horseman: Caeda 4-5RKOs while Daros 3RKOs. They 2RKO Caeda while they either tink or 14RKO Daros Apart from the Horseman, which are the most common enemy on the map due to all the reinforcements, Caeda can usually kill an enemy in an extra hit. This doesn't however outweigh the fact that Daros is practically invincible against Horsemen and is 6-7RKO'd by everything else (While Caeda is 2RKO'd by everything, and getting screwed even by 1 in HP means she's ORKO'd by Cavs and Armors). Definite win for Daros, as his defensive win>her offensive win Chapter 11: 15/1 Mage->Sage Caeda: 27 HP, 14 (+2) Atk (Blizza), 20 AS, 5 Def 15/1 Armor->General Daros: 40 HP, 27 (+2) Atk (Silver Lance), 5 AS, 23 Def Cavs: Both 2RKO. They 2RKO Caeda and 5-10RKO Daros Mercs: Caeda ORKOs-2RKOs and Daros 2RKOs. They 2RKO Caeda and tink Daros Pegs: Both 2RKO. Caeda is 3RKO'd while they tink Daros Sniper: Both 2RKO. They 2RKO Caeda and 7RKO Daros Horseman: Both 2RKO. They 2RKO Caeda and *tink* This is just a complete blowout. They're essentially equal offensively, and Daros has half of the map tinking him. Caeda might be able to use Aura occasionally, but its only good for 12 rounds of combat. After those 12 rounds, it just becomes a complete slaughter. Chapter 16: 15/6 Mage->Sage Caeda: 28 HP, 21 Atk (+2) (Bolganone), 24 AS, 5 Def 15/6 Knight->General Daros: 43 HP, 28 Atk (+2) (Silver Lance), 5 AS, 26 Def w/Ridersbane: 39 (+2) Atk Horsemen: Caeda ORKOs while Daros 2RKOs. Caeda is 2RKO'd while Daros is tinked Wyvern: Caeda 2RKOs while Daros 3RKOs. Caeda is 2RKO'd while Daros is 11-22RKO'd Hero: Caeda ORKO's-2RKOs while Daros 2RKOs. Caeda is 2RKO'd while Daros is tinked if he attacks up close Cav 6: Caeda ORKOs while Daros 2RKOs. Caeda is 2RKO'd while Daros is tinked Cav 8: Caeda ORKOs while Daros 2RKOs. Caeda is 2RKO'd while Daros is tinked or 22RKO'd Cav 10: Caeda ORKOs while Daros 2RKOs. Caeda is 2RKO'd while Daros is 22RKO'd aside from the Armorslayer guy (He's 2RKO'd by him) Paladin: Both 2RKO. Caeda is 2RKO'd while Daros is 8RKO'd General: Both 2RKO. Caeda is 2RKO'd while Daros is 8RKO'd Well, it really depends on what you value more. Killing in an extra round most of the time, or being virtually invincible except for one enemy on the map. For those who have used Zagaro, it shouldn't take a genius to figure out which is preferable. Then the Braves come soon after. Caeda is ORKO'd by any Brave weapon, while Daros will be tinked by every enemy on the map. You be the judge of who you would rather have on the team. So there's never really a point where Caeda has an advantage over Daros. Maybe Chapters 1-3? Other then that, its a clear win for Daros Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Draper Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 I'm going to try to pinpoint the point where Daros becomes completely competent on his own. Its before Chapter 8, so I'll try Chapter 7: 9/0 Daros: 25 HP, 18 Atk (+1), 1 AS, 15 Def Archers: Daros 3RKOs. He is 5RKO'd Wyverns: Daros 5RKOs. He is 3RKO'd Mercs: Daros 3RKOs. He is 5-6RKO'd Pegs: Daros 3RKOs. He is 4RKO'd Thieves: Daros 2RKOs. They tink him Right around here seems right. Apart from the Wyverns, he is 4-6RKO'd by everything else (and thieves tink him). Meanwhile, he deals around the same damage as everyone else (10/0 Abel only has 1 more attack, and can't double anything on the map like Daros). Come to think of it, Daros vs. Cain is next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted November 22, 2009 Author Share Posted November 22, 2009 Basically, Darros is High tier. I guess that answers the earlier question of what tier he should be in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Draper Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 I really want to argue Daros vs. Cain, but I'm afraid its going to cause too much controversy. Then again, just look at this: 3/0 General Zagaro: 31 HP, 19 Atk (Steel Lance), 5 AS, 17 Def 9/0 Daros: 25 HP, 18 Atk (Steel Lance), 1 AS, 15 Def 4/0 General Zagaro: 33 HP, 19 Atk (Steel Lance) (+1), 5 AS, 18 Def 11/0 Daros: 27 HP, 19 Atk (Steel Lance) (+1), 1 AS, 17 Def 15/1 Armor->General Daros: 40 HP, 27 (+2) Atk (Silver Lance), 5 AS, 23 Def 8 General Zagaro: 40 HP, 26 (+2) Atk (Silver Lance), 8 AS, 23 Def 15/6 Knight->General Daros: 43 HP, 28 Atk (+2) (Silver Lance), 5 AS, 26 Def 13 General Zagaro: 49 HP, 30 Atk (+2) (Silver Lance), 11 AS, 27 Def Kid's got potential. Zagaro is clearly better (and doesn't have to go through a 5 chapter period of mediocrity). The potential is there though. Don't want to feel like I'm hyping too much though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted November 22, 2009 Author Share Posted November 22, 2009 I really want to argue Daros vs. Cain, but I'm afraid its going to cause too much controversy.If you saw my earlier posts about wanting to have a tier split between the Social Knights and the characters above them, then you can tell I don't have as much faith in them as others.In comparison to General Zagaro, I think BB's said a few times before that Hero!Zagaro is actually more broken due to Axes aiding in durability and being able to obtain actual offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Draper Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 (edited) I have this weird feeling where I think a revelation is about to happen. Part of me wants to examine everyone in High Tier, on an every-other chapter basis. Another part of me knows how long this is going to take. Looking at everything again, I think its very possible that the tier list could look like this: Skittles Tier Zagaro Wolf Top Tier Barts Merric Cord Draug High Tier Daros Abel Cain Hardin Caeda Ogma I'll have to examine everyone pretty closely though. Draug has pretty epic 15/1 Stats, and I think that if we look at him a bit more closely he could definitely have a case against the cavs. Edited November 22, 2009 by IOS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted November 22, 2009 Author Share Posted November 22, 2009 (edited) Haha, wow. I was suggesting pretty much the same thing earlier (but long before Daros was considered and with different tier names) but nobody was really sure if a tier gap was justified. You might want to check out this thread first where a tier gap was looked into. Edited November 22, 2009 by FE3 Player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Draper Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Its kind of funny that I disagreed with that notion at first, but I'm starting to lean towards defence>offence right now. I really want to look at everyone on an every other chapter basis. I think what I'll do is make a thread on fegenesis, and update it every day with another Chapter (starting with Chapter 2). Should only take about 15 days if I do a chapter a day, and each chapter should only take about half an hour (even if I have to examine 10 different characters...ugh). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Draper Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Chapter 4 comparison is up on fegenesis. Should I post everything here too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted November 22, 2009 Author Share Posted November 22, 2009 If you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Draper Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 (edited) Basically, I'm going to examine all the characters currently in High Tier on an every other chapter basis. Yes it will be time consuming, but I'll split it up. I love statistics, so don't think I'm crazy. I could start with Chapter 1 or 2, but I think its the most fair to start at Chapter 4 when everybody can class change. There's already a tier list for Chapters 1-3 anyways, so refer to that if you need to know which characters are better at what point. Characters who performed well in Chapters 1-3 will be Level 5. Characters who were lacking will be Level 4. This level gap will close by the next chapter. For this chapter, Merric and Hardin won't be considered (because Merric joins too late, and Hardin doesn't join at all) EDIT: This is way too long. I think its pretty much accepted that Caeda, Hardin and Ogma are worse then the cavs, so they're out. And I'll just do one of the cavs, since they're so similar. Merric also won't really be considered offensively until he promotes. Chapter 4 5/0 Barts: 26 HP, 21 Atk (Steel Axe), 10 AS, 6 Def 4/0 Cord: 22 HP, 18 Atk (Steel Axe), 10 AS, 5 Def 4/0 Draug: 22 HP, 13 Atk (Iron Bow), 10 AS, 4 Def 4/0 Daros: 22 HP, 14 Atk (Iron Lance), 1 AS, 12 Def 5/0 Abel: 23 HP, 13/17(+1) Atk (Iron Sword/Steel Lance), 8/9 (Steel Lance/ Iron Sword) AS, 8 Def Man this is going to take forever: Barts: Thief 1: 2RKO. Is 2RKO'd Thief 3: 2RKO. Is 2RKO'd Fighters: 2RKO. Is 2RKO'd Hunters: 2RKO. Is 3-4RKO'd Archers: 2RKO. Is 3RKO'd Armor: ORKO with Hammer. Is 3RKO'd Horseman: 3RKO. Is 2RKO'd Cav (Iron Lance): 3RKO. Is 3RKO'd Cav (Iron Sword): 3RKO. Is 2RKO'd Cord: Thieves: 2RKO. Is 2RKO'd Fighters: 3RKO. Is 2RKO'd Hunters: 2RKO. Is 3RKO'd Archers: 3RKO. Is 2RKO'd Armor: 3RKO. Is 2RKO'd Horseman: 3RKO. Is 2RKO'd Cav (Iron Lance): 3RKO. Is 2RKO'd Cav (Iron Sword):3RKO. Is 2RKO'd Draug: Thieves: 3RKO. Is 2RKO'd Fighters: 4RKO. Is 2RKO'd Hunters: 3RKO. Is 2-3RKO'd Archers: 4RKO. Is 2RKO'd Armor: 8RKO. Is 2RKO'd Horseman: 5RKO. Is 1-2RKO'd Cavs: 5RKO. Is 2RKO'd Daros: Thief 1: 2RKO. *tink* Thief 3: 3RKO. *tink* Fighter: 4RKO. Is 2RKO'd Hunter: 3RKO. Is 4RKO'd or 6RKO'd Archer: 4RKO. Is 2RKO'd Armor: 11RKO's. Is 4RKO'd Horseman: 5RKO. Is 4RKO'd or 6RKO'd Cav (Iron Sword): 5RKO. 2-3RKO'd Cav (Iron Lance): 5RKO. 2-3RKO'd ORKO'd by the Armorslayer Guy Abel: Thief 1: 2RKO. Is 4RKO'd Thief 3: 2RKO. Is 4-6KO'd Fighter: 4RKO. Is 2-3RKO'd Hunter: 2RKO. Is 4RKO'd Archer: 3RKO. Is 3RKO'd Armor: 3RKO. Is 3RKO'd Horseman: 3RKO. Is 2RKO'd Cav (Iron Sword): 3RKO. Is 3-4RKO'd Cav (Iron Lance): 3RKO. Is 3RKO'd Barst vs. Abel is pretty close. Barst can kill the odd enemy in one few rounds, but Abel can take the odd extra hit. They're about equal right now. Pretty much the same case with Cord vs. Darros, although Cord does do noticably better against the Cavs and Fighters (the two biggest threats on the map. Cord has the slight edge Draug is just doing terribly right now. Hopefully he can get out of his rut soon. Barts=Abel>>Cord>Darros>>>Draug for Chapter 4. And If anybody objects to anything then speak up. I'd like to make this as unbiased as possible. Edited November 22, 2009 by IOS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Okay, now what about Bord and Kashim who actually have better C2-3 performance than Darros? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Draper Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 (edited) Do you mean to use in my comparison or your playthrough? I can't realistically add any more characters to the comparison due to how long one chapter already takes. I don't think that Bord or Kashim can ever really have an advantage over Daros, due to his much better defense. Maybe somebody else can do Bord vs. Daros. For now, I'll just stick with these five (and Merric might be added later). Also, I'm editing the comparison to assume that Abel has D Swords. He's barely using swords at all with his Javelin abusing in the first three chapters, and I find it unrealistic that he can gain a weapon level in each weapon in three chapters. He will have D Swords by the next comparison. Editing... Edited November 22, 2009 by IOS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 (edited) Well Abel would rather use Steel Lance over Steel Sword for C4 anyway, so it's not like no D Swords really hurts. Edited November 22, 2009 by laws b122 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 (edited) *Headdesk* From FEGenesis: I believe when I did argue him it was with Armor Knight. 10/1 Bord - 33.8 HP | 13.7 Str | 10.0 Skl | 4.1 Spd | 3.8 Luck | 19.9 Def | 3.0 Res 10/1 Darros - 36.1 HP | 11.7 Str | 5.7 Skl | 5.1 Spd | 5.8 Luck | 19.9 Def | 3.0 Res Though from now on Darros will win the Def growth, this is pretty close when you got 20 Def to drool on. I meant i Bord / Kashim (especially Bord perhaps) going up WITH him? Edited November 22, 2009 by Billy: Hunter - General Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.