Mekkah Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 (edited) I don't like using probability of use as a factor. It leads to arguments such as "Kain & Abel are getting forged weapons because they're the most likely to be used" and stuff like that or "this character is better off being killed off since you'll already have your team filled anyway". That's a weird jump to make. Kain and Abel are more likely to be used than, say, Vyland and Matthis, but when comparing them, you either give both or neither forged weapons, and give more weight to comparisons without forged weapons due to those being limited supply. Edited March 13, 2009 by Mekkah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted March 13, 2009 Author Share Posted March 13, 2009 Well, I didn't suggest they weren't likely to be used, I was just warning against unfair comparisons because of such. I do indeed prefer to not take forged weapons into account. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Easily...taken care of...what?Magic Mamkute: 60 HP 30 atk 115 hit 24 AS 21 def 24 res ...EASILY taken care of?! Yeah, why do you think everybody skips C24, and why so many people 1 turn warp? And now you know why there's no reason not to use the Geosphere here. Where else do you even NEED the geosphere? I dunno about you, but that thing is much less menacing with only 30 health. The fact there's so many ways around endgame shows how much a joke it is. Nagi might or might not be over Gotoh, but I don't think they belong in freaking upper-mid, no matter how awesome either of them are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted March 13, 2009 Author Share Posted March 13, 2009 You're guaranteed to have either of them, you're not guaranteed to have the Geosphere depending on your overall strategy. You can one turn the chapter with both of them and without the need of the Geosphere, so I don't see them falling from Upper Mid just because of the Geosphere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 You're guaranteed to have either of them, you're not guaranteed to have the Geosphere depending on your overall strategy.You can one turn the chapter with both of them and without the need of the Geosphere, so I don't see them falling from Upper Mid just because of the Geosphere. Tell me where it's better use and I'll believe you. We could use their wtf endgame hax, or we could just use the geosphere. The rest of the time we have it is either simple by then, or is chapter 24 with neverending waves of mage dragon reinforcements that could clog the way to the castle. Either it would be used to make the start more bearable until the mage dragon reinforcements, or on the mage dragon reinforcements but making the beginning much harder. The reinforcements in endgame are easily blocked off, or are the too late ones from the southern forts that take forever to get to your force. It's the final fight. There is no better time to use this thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Tarrasque Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Chapter 23 to nuke them stupid swarm bishops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 And also to find the real Gharnef on turn 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 Chapter 23 to nuke them stupid swarm bishops. You raise a good point... If we're using Nagi or even bothering fighting Gharnef in the first place, the geosphere doing that is a bit pointless. But still a good point. Nevermind my rambling then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 some people have Gordin on there team post C4 I don't appreciate insults. Even if you're the #1 Gordin hater. (If that wasn't meant in a bad way, then excuse my being indignant.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 Even if you're the #1 Gordin hater. You make it sound like it's unjustified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 It is to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 Then you're wrong. Gordin sucks. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 Then you're wrong. Gordin sucks. Period. Screw the period. He sucks to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Tarrasque Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 (edited) No, Gordin really is terrible. It's fine if you use him but to go around saying that he doesn't suck is quite wrong. That is unless you're able to prove otherwise... good luck with that though. Edited March 14, 2009 by Sirius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 No, Gordin really is terrible. It's fine if you use him but to go around saying that he doesn't suck is quite wrong. That is unless you're able to prove otherwise... good luck with that though. ... Maybe I should try proving that in the NM list... Except that Vyland will never raise Gordin up. Since this is H5, it might be different. (I can't even beat the Endgame of H3, let alone C3 of H5) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Tarrasque Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 ... Maybe I should try proving that in the NM list... Except that Vyland will never raise Gordin up. Since this is H5, it might be different. (I can't even beat the Endgame of H3, let alone C3 of H5) You're being biased. If you can prove that Gordin should move up, he will do it. Good luck with that though, Gordin at least has some value in H5 since he's able to do reliable damage in the first 3 chapters where you struggle the most. In NM, most units can do the same he can and better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 (edited) Except that Vyland will never raise Gordin up. ...Please stop attributing the fact that Gordin sucks as some kind of fault of mine. Okay, let's see, why does Gordin suck? And fuck your opinions, we're going to use FACTS. FACT: Gordin's class sucks, and he's reliant on it to even have a speed stat since lol 5% base growth. FACT: All of Gordin's non-def growths are awful no matter what. FACT: His move sucks. It wouldn't if he didn't suck hard as a cav. FACT: Spd is a serious issue for him in every class that's not a myrm. And guess what happens in myrm? He offense goes from suck to blow. And it's even more of a problem latergame since he's locked to swords AND has fail strength: An awful combination. For different reasons than in previous FEs, but it's still an awful combo. Okay, we've established that Gordin is an epic failure as anything other than Archer. Or Curate. But anybody can make a good curate in Riff's place, so that's not saying a damn thing except that you're not wasting a unit who's worth a damn at fighting. Right. So, now that we know Archer is the only thing Gordin can do, let's go over why he sucks at it. A: Horrid move. B: Horrid speed. 4 base. With a 35% growth. He's barely any faster than Draug. C: Horrid strength on top of that: His offense is epic suck until he promotes. D: In general, being awful until he promotes. E: Even WHEN he promotes, he's still getting schooled by any character worth a damn. On NM you say? Well, on NM, Vyland has a huge move lead and still one rounds everything on the map with a javelin with only slightly worse durability. On NM his effective bonus versus fliers is worthless because fliers are getting raped by everybody anyway. In general 2 range sucks, but bad move and bad stats make it even WORSE. Even the crudest 1 rangers, so long they have 18 speed at minimum, are by far a more practical choice than Gordin. I'm not biased against Gordin, you're biased FOR Gordin. I hate Gordin because he sucks, and anybody who's even compared him to other characters will spot that immediately. And Sirius, please don't give him any ideas. It's bad enough we've gotten sidetracked. Edited March 14, 2009 by Vyland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted March 18, 2009 Author Share Posted March 18, 2009 (edited) Whoh whoh. How did I miss this garbage? Why don't you read the tier list before calling out people for talking about how much Gordon sucks? Right now he is in Low Mid. Low Mid people. That position doesn't mean "sucks", though he may get dropped eventually. Edited March 18, 2009 by Chainey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Oops. I was thinking about the NM Tier list when I wrote that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Even then, he's nothing special. Lacks countering (countering is great in NM), bleh start and doesn't develop into anything special and everyone does better than him in every way anyways. Gordon sucks NM, he at least has a use in H5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted March 19, 2009 Author Share Posted March 19, 2009 I want to see... Radd vs. Thomas Horace vs. Astram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Tarrasque Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 (edited) I want to see...Radd vs. Thomas Horace vs. Astram Radd >>> Thomas. Earlier join time, better STR growth and he'll pretty much match Thomas as a lvl 5 Archer. Horace >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Astram. Astram is shit as a Hero and as a General, he's just trying to get the same DEF as Horace. Not to mention the lower SPD he has and less DEF means he'll take more damage and is more likely doubled compared to Horace. Edited March 19, 2009 by Sirius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted March 19, 2009 Author Share Posted March 19, 2009 (edited) How big is the gap between Horace and Astram? Astram is not worse than Midia, that much I am certain. Radd >>> Thomas. Earlier join time, better STR growth and he'll pretty much match Thomas as a lvl 5 Archer.Definitely better averages, but I am wondering if the difficulty of being trained during his point of the game will allow him to realistically surpass Thomas. Edited March 19, 2009 by Chainey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 (edited) Considering if Raddy gets trained up, he can actually hold his own and become reptty awesome, just he's real fucking hard to train in this mode. Thomas on the other hand....Has the same problem and comes later only to end up worse. Fuck Thomas. Raddy just bitchslaps him really. Even if Thomas went Cavalier-Dracoknight, he still ends up statistically worse than Raddy. Edited March 19, 2009 by Grandjackal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Tarrasque Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 (edited) How big is the gap between Horace and Astram? Astram is not worse than Midia, that much I am certain.Definitely better averages, but I am wondering if the difficulty of being trained during his point of the game will allow him to realistically surpass Thomas. General Astram is pretty much unusable since his SPD means he'll get doubled all the time. At least Horace has some time where he isn't getting doubled, which is why he's a decent tank despite just having 17 DEF. Hero Astram's a glass cannon... without the cannon. I can see him going above below or above Midia (depends on how much of an issue you see their recruitment as). It would be difficult to train him (Radd), but then there's the Archer class to help make it easier for him. Jackal's got a point. Edited March 19, 2009 by Sirius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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