H5 Tier list topic

[Dat Nick]

Kuja peddling a certain kind of oil aside [hint, Indiana Jones isn't going to touch it with a 10 foot pole] over Wolf's trivial strength lead which peaks at a whopping two points which doesn't even matter as both are owning mounts with Ridersbane by the time it becomes buyable [C15], I daresay Rickard is worse than Est. Est can at LEAST nuke stuff with Armorslayers. You have to go seriously out of your way to get Rickard any kills, and he will never, ever, EVER not be a determent to the team with his permenantly horrid offense and durability. Est can at least come CLOSE to killing things without any babying, even if she's going to die right afterward, Rickard won't even put a dent in them and is just better being killed off for EXP [Although unlike Est he provides a good sum of it]

Edited June 11, 2009 by Aran Ryan

[_____]

The fact that Rickard can save you money by picking locks >>> anything Est does.

You guys seem to underestimate Thief utility a bit too much. It doesn't > Bottom Tier, but it does > Est.

[Dat Nick]

Oh wow, he's saving us money when we already have enough of it to buy out the Trump Empire. I'm so proud for him. Not.

The fact that I even have to use Rickard is sapping a decent kill for experience one of my underlevelled units could have used is already a blow against him. It's even worse that even considering him for combat will suck up MORE EXP as he will not become a viable fighter no matter how much EXP I pour into him, due to his fail offense which can't even kill generals with armorslayer, and then he'll get one shotted due to his crap durability. Never mind that his presence is preventing 1 generic coming in per chapter, which not only saps the team of vital walls, but also of funds. By C13 he's flushed 1800 at minimum down the toilet[Which I daresay is more than the funds he's saving from not using keys], is still failing at combat, has drained a good deal of EXP from people who could actually improve from it, and basically is plugging up the progression of the team. Even if he shouldn't be below Est he most certainly should be below Tomas, Maria, and Bantu [Tomas's 2 range means he can do damage and not get raped, Maria's crude healing is better than Rickard's overall fail, and Bantu is at least pretty cool for the (very) short time that he is useful]

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Below Lorenz is plausible but for him to go below Est would need a lot more convincing.

[Colonel M]

Funny thing is at one point I almost said Est > Lorenz until I seen Lorenz's weapon ranks.

After stupidly looking at some of Shiida's other class options, she has almost 10 Spd as an Archer. Methinks that despite the shitty movement, there's another class that's able to be used. Sort of.

Just for shits and giggles.

No, I'm not advocating her to rise or fall for this reason either. You can tell I'm almost BORED.

I'll get some arguments for some of these guys soon.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Funny thing is at one point I almost said Est > Lorenz until I seen Lorenz's weapon ranks.

After stupidly looking at some of Shiida's other class options, she has almost 10 Spd as an Archer. Methinks that despite the shitty movement, there's another class that's able to be used. Sort of.

Just for shits and giggles.

No, I'm not advocating her to rise or fall for this reason either. You can tell I'm almost BORED.

I'll get some arguments for some of these guys soon.

Already looked into that, not worth it.

[Colonel M]

Already looked into that, not worth it.

Eh, probably Pegasus Knight -> Sniper would be preferable so you don't put up with Archer's suckage. But even Sniper's godly bases don't help her Str suckage either (11 at 20/1? WTF!!!)

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Wing Spear and Mage is all she's good for really... It doesn't help that she won't have access to Silver Bows right away which she definitely wants due to her... oh what the fuck, why bother explaining.

Edited June 12, 2009 by Sirius

[Dat Nick]

Mage should be used if she wants 2-range. Melee counters, and more damage dealt since targetting res>Targetting def with shitballs str, even with the ability to double.

[Colonel M]

Like I said, just for shits and giggles. Was not being 100% serious about it.

Great Spd but balls Str never makes a good mix. >_>;

[grandjackal]

Like I said, just for shits and giggles. Was not being 100% serious about it.

Great Spd but balls Str never makes a good mix. >_>;

Holy crap, Ronan!

[CT075]

Just for shits and giggles, here's my attempt to get Gordin over Jeorge... I'm probably going to make even more of a total fool out of myself...

Firstly, Gordin has much, much better durability than George. Here, see:

Level 8/0 (Full Archer) Gordin has 8.1 Def.

Level /1 Jeorge has 8.0 Def. Not my idea of a walking wall.

And then, if you go Cavalier with 2 Archer levels, you get this.

Also, Gordin can deal with any unit pretty well (if he got the speed point at the beginning), since he's only getting doubled by promoted units. Of course, this means that he has to steer clear from Paladins, but oh well. Also, once he gets C lances, he can get Ridersbane to finish off any wounded Paladin. Only problem I can see is his less than stellar Str, but that can be fixed. Then, when George joins, Gordin pretty much ties George in everything except weapon ranks and speed. Then, when Gordin promotes either at chapter 17x or 18. He goes DracoKnight, of course. His meh-ish Str doesn't show as much now, since he has a kickass dragon!!! In all reality, though, he has Axes that both increase his durability in a Lance heavy game, and he also has Axes to increase his attack power. In 17x, the Hero four-shots 20/1 promoted Gordin, and the other generic enemies 4 round him. Pretty good, better than George is doing. After all, /6 Jeorge is getting 2-rounded by the weakest enemy on the field (Horseman). Gordin isn't doing so hot against them or the boss, but he shouldn't have any more buisness dealing with the Horsemen besides one-shotting them with Ridersbane anyway, and AeroDactyl is easy as hell anyway. Then, when Gordin gets Hammer, he has his arsenal to deal with horseys, armors, and others. Then the Braves come 2 chapters later and level 20/3 Draco Gordin can't get one-rounded by Brave Paladins (the strongest non-Camus enemy that Gordin actually wants to fight) even if they quad him. Meanwhile, George gets ORKOd by Brave Generals. Want to see? Look for yourself:

General 2:
50 HP
26 atk
92 hit
9 AS
15 def
3 res

General 4:
51 (52) HP
26 atk
93 hit
9 (10) AS
3 res

Paladin 6:
46 HP
26 atk
94 (95) hit
16 AS
10 (11) def
7 res

Paladin 11:
50 HP
27 (2 atk
96 hit
17 AS
12 def
8 res

Thief: Same stats as previous chapter

Priest: Blahblahblahnobigdealby now. Just make sure you wipe them out, which you could probably do with a wet noodle by now because Fortify gets annoying.

Shooter 6:
43 HP
27 (2 atk
94 hit [10 less on quickrain]
8 AS
12 (13) def

Shooter 8:
44 HP
29 atk
83 hit
8 AS
14 def

Shooter 11:
47 HP
36 atk
74 hit
9 AS
15 def

No Camus because neither of them wants to get one-shotted. Level /8 Jeorge has 8.7 Def. Level 20/3 Cav-Draco Gordon has 17.1 Def.

Meanwhile, how is their offense? Gordin obvoiusly wins against Generals when if he has C Axes (Not too unlikely, if Cord can get it by C4, Gordin can get it by chapter 20) because of Hammer and against Cavs and Horsemen because of Ridersbane. Jeorge wins against fliers because of bows. So:

Level 20/3 Gordin has 23 Atk with a Steel Axe and 22 Atk with a Steel Lance. This 3RKOs the highest Def shooter with the Axe, and a 4RKO with the Lance.

Level /8 Jeorge has 20 Atk with a Silver Bow. This 10HKOs the same Shooter. Fail.

Also, Gordin can go Curate-Promoted Class to basically become a prepromote, except that he still has better base stats than George unless you seriously sandbag Gordin. Not to mention the fact that Gordin is pretty crucial for the early chapters, as he's got the best range on the team (Marth has none, the Cavs and Barst have unreliable hit, Kashim... okay he's good, Shiida? Nah... Ogma has none, Nabarl has none...).

Gordin >>>>>>> Jeorge Carlin.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Level 8/0 (Full Archer) Gordin has 8.1 Def.

I stopped there. Gordin fails as anything as everything. As an archer, we have to put up with weak chip damage and shit bases. Curate's his best option.

[Colonel M]

Ugh, one thing I hate about the purge: I lose stats.

K, Linde > Jeorge. Reasons? Linde can throw herself in two classes no problem: Cleric and Mage. She doesn't NEED to use the uber Aura tome, but it is there whenever she wants it.

Mid-game (assuming Linde promotes at C17, which is plausible), they have roughly the same durability and chip damage. Towards C20, Linde has a slightly better offense than Jeorge's. Both are dying in one shot unless you got Jeorge up to Level 20, but he's only surviving one shot more. Linde can actually 2-3HKO while Lv. 20 Jeorge can sometimes 3-4HKO. Example:

20/5 Linde (4 Mage levels just because there could be situations where fielding a Mage is slightly better, such as C15), Linde has 12 Mag. Thoron has about 13 Mt. So, in order to 2RKO Paladins, it takes 28 Atk. Now, it's possible to get this with Aura. As for reaching the magic 28 Atk number it will take 3 more Mag. 20/8 drops this to 2, and 20/10 drops it to 1. It will require a forge, but it's a small forge. There's also Aura to consider, but w/e. Jeorge, at max Level (me being pretty kind) has about 25 Atk. Now for him to 2RKO, it will take 31 Atk per hit. Jeorge needs a pretty hefty forge in order to do so. Even with Parthia's Mt of 17, it isn't enough to 2RKO the hefty Paladins.

What's funny is even with Parthia, Jeorge cannot ORKO DracoKnights that will arrive in C21 and C22. Ouch.

[Rodykitty]

So what about Chapters other than 20 & 21?

[Colonel M]

Well, C23 would work to her advantage because of RES. C24... she can't damage Mage Mamkutes, but in return she dents Fire Mamkutes. C22... just Dracos / Pegasi. Also, she's gaining levels easily due to staves and magic, and with magic targetting Res... yeah.

If you're wondering if Mages can survive an assualt, we'll pit her at 20/8 with 13 Mag. Thoron has 13 Mt and I think she'll have an A Rank by now, so toss on +2 Atk. Mages with 30 HP / 5 Res takes 16 Atk to ORKO. She more than accomplishes that. Bishops... are tricky. That takes 27 Atk to ORKO when doubling, which she should have with even C Rank minimum. Jeorge obviously ORKOes them as well, but he takes hefty amounts of damage. He's definitely being 2RKOed while Linde . Now, to 2HKO Heroes it takes 28 Atk (for Linde) while it takes 31 Atk (for Jeorge). While Linde is being 2RKOed in a lot of instances, it's easier for her to patch it up than Jeorge (Talisman should do it).

C24 has Fire Mamkutes which take ~29 Atk for Linde to 2HKO. Obviously Linde reaches this. For Jeorge, it takes... here it comes... 35 Atk. That can't be done even with Parthia. With Parthia or Silver Bow he's 3RKOing. Mage Mamkutes is where he'll win, I guess. Heroes both 2RKO (they're pretty weak on this chapter), and Snipers Linde > Jeorge since she can 2RKO AND safely nevertheless.

EDIT: If you really aren't convinced don't worry a whole lot about it. There's other units to consider anyway (Roger > Darros, which is going to be a bit difficult).

If you're talking beforehand, upon promotion (which I said ~C17), they have roughly the same chip damage (comparing Lv 10 Jeorge, but inflating the levels doesn't help him much) and take about the same amount of damage.

Then you have to consider healing utility, which works in her favor. Then Warp-skipping is also available on her. While Jeorge has some of earlygame on her, he will quickly deteriorate and once he caps... well, things still don't look good. Linde can improve on levels quickly due to the Cleric status and as a Sage she can alternate between Magic and Staves, thus why her levels can be inflated a bit. Just a little though.

Edited June 13, 2009 by Colonel M

[Rodykitty]

Also keep in mind that Linda is an E Staffer at Chapter 12, putting a dent in usefulness, and even though she is being a Cleric, she is still underleveled so by the time she is a Sage, she's having less time as one than other Sages that have promoted earlier (usually by the time she actually comes).

[Colonel M]

Also keep in mind that Linda is an E Staffer at Chapter 12, putting a dent in usefulness, and even though she is being a Cleric, she is still underleveled so by the time she is a Sage, she's having less time as one than other Sages that have promoted earlier (usually by the time she actually comes).

Which is understood, but like I said latest she'll probably promote is C17 if you use Mage a little bit to boost the EXP. Meh, w/e. It's dealing like a mini-Nino that comes somewhat earlier, I swear.

In fact, I'm so crazy I might even say Gordin > Linde just becuase Curate -> Sage is his best option and the only thing he has to put up with is "eh" tomes, but he has earlygame (as in C1) over Linde anyway. He can promote way earlier and improve faster than her due to the reason. It's a matter of putting up with... crappy... stats... gah.

Edited June 13, 2009 by Colonel M

[Rodykitty]

And Jeorge is like a mini-Louise that comes earlier.

[Colonel M]

I wasn't trying after the other post to put Linde > Jeorge, that was me giving up a bit.

Though... Gordon > Linde might work since she comes pretty late and it's possible Gordin is at or near promotion anyway. Too bad he sucks as a Sage too, just like everything else.

[Rodykitty]

Gordon > Linde I can see, but only because he has some utility value and nothing more.

[Colonel M]

Gordon > Linde I can see, but only because he has some utility value and nothing more.

Which is all he has really. Linde will improve, but it'll take a ton of time and resources in order to do so (cramming a ton of levels down her throat if you want to promote her ASAP). Gordon here has almost all the time in the world.

Edited June 13, 2009 by Colonel M

[Rodykitty]

On the flip side, improving into the lategame is all she has, while she has no utility whatsoever.

[Colonel M]

Yeah, definitely seeing Gordon > Linde, but going further than that is a stretch (beating Jeorge? Uh... I don't think so).

[Dat Nick]

Cav Gordin was shot down rather easily for AS issues hurting his so called "tanking ability" and making his bad offense even worse, thus making it even harder for him to gain EXP and get out of his rut of being doubled when it already takes him a ton of levels to even do that.

That being said, I see no possible way that Gordin could >Jeorge. Jeorge isn't a pain in the team's ass and is more than welcome upon jointime.

Edited June 13, 2009 by GreenHairedDraco