Rodykitty Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Top part is true. Dismounting is still silly. That and there's frustration due to having moved on from this before in this very same topic.I don't care if it's silly. If you notice, my focus is on gameplay.Soldiers suck, but can still hit swordsmen.Swords are going to kill them pretty easily.Armor knights still giggle at sword damage and can still hit them back.That's why other classes exist. The "less gimping" of Sword users comes from the fact that indoor chapters aren't going to have social knights with Lances attacking you.Does this make up for shitty range and only doing well against the few axe enemies AND the other two being better against sword enemies (lancers take them easy and Swordslayer actually rocking hard)? Not really...personally if swordsmen could grow magic for better magic sword use, I would love them more.I never said this is a sword user buff. I said this makes them less gimped. There becomes more of a saturation of units they are designed to fight, including other sword users.The gameplay of indoor chapters changes slightly. I am not claiming this will magically make them useful, I am claiming they will magically keep their role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seph Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 (edited) Swords are going to kill them pretty easily. The same thing can be said in any FE game. FE5 is a good example since the enemies are easy to kill yet it is the hardest FE game. Olwen can kill things VERY easily but she has poor durability. But surviving them is the real point. If you can kill them pretty easily, but can't survive several attacks, well.. Defence > offence. I wasn't aiming for the soldier argument, just at your logic. Edited February 13, 2009 by Shanan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 That is true. Surviving does take priority. The main reason I said what I said though, is because when you do fight a Soldier (let's assume a safe tactic is being used), that the sword user will kill him due to the soldier not having high, while they may not kill the armor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Dismounting is still silly by gameplay mechanics. We just literally got done discussing this a couple pages back. Problem with sword users is that their jobs are done by others as it is. Axers can easily smoke axe enemies thanks to hand axes being hax and lancers usually have the defense to handle shots from them anyways. Axers have hammers (not that they need it), lancers again have the defense for the most part. Then axers have the hilarious swordslayer in FE7, have the durability in 9 and 10 while lancers...I feel like I'd be repeating myself. Throw in sword users usually have bad durability and are practically stuck at 1 range...Honestly, the GBA ones did it right. Swordmasters get crit, paladins get weapon triangle and movement (though need bad stats to equal it out), heroes just get axes with promotion while generally being awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Shroob Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 (edited) I may be the only one that thinks this, but I think there should be support conversations if they remake Book 2. It would honestly flesh out the units that have little to no personality, and it would also be nice to not have most of your army, "Disappear after the war". Imagine Marth and Catria A support...... sucks to be Shiida. Also, I think we need ONE playable axe user, or just update the units like in Shadow Dragon. Maybe reclass should return, but I never, if ever, used it in my playthroughs. Edited February 13, 2009 by Dr.Shroob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 (edited) I didn't say that it would balance the game, I said it would change the balance to put focus on different units. And I've repeatedly said that sword users would not be directly buffed from this, simply more usable indoors thanks to there not being mounted lance users. I'm not speaking about buffing sword users because that's not what the dismounting discussion is about. I'm talking about a gameplay feature that I feel actually affects level design as well. If I simply wanted to buff Swordmasters, they would get the static evade boost they need. Nothing to do with dismounting at all. Edited February 13, 2009 by Chainey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I didn't say that it would balance the game, I said it would change the balance to put focus on different units. And I've repeatedly said that sword users would not be directly buffed from this, simply more usable indoors thanks to there not being mounted lance users.I'm not speaking about buffing sword users because that's not what the dismounting discussion is about. I'm talking about a gameplay feature that I feel actually affects level design as well. If I simply wanted to buff Swordmasters, they would get the static evade boost they need. Nothing to do with dismounting at all. Ok, NOW we're more clear here. ...It's something I STILL disagree with though. Maybe we'll just not agree on this? Not that we particularly agree on anything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 (edited) Darth, ya know I love ya but I'm gonna disagree with you on this to the bitter end. I've already explained my stance a billion times and I'm not going to bother any more. EDT: Imagine Marth and Catria A support ya rly. It's mentioned Catria has a thing for Marth, they could at least give you the option to make that relationship go somewhere. Especially in book 2 where she pwns the pants off Shiida, a lot of people would prefer that pairing. Not to mention I'm sure Marth would enjoy having children that DON'T suck. Edited February 13, 2009 by Sweet Tooth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiddo Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 And again, if we're worried about the logic of a horse being in a castle, we'd have to figure out how to handle Dragons, who -live- in castles. If a horse can't move through a castle, why would something that's theoretically 5 times the size of a horse? (Somehow I feel like I keep pointing this out only for it to be ignored) Anyway, on the other ideas: Axe Users: I'd suggest bringing back Barst ASAP and having him retain his FEDS stats, making him a high-tier axe-wielding character from the get-go. Of course, Minerva will get her new special axe as well. Add maybe 3 more new-character axe users or have Bord and Cord return as well and that's pretty set. Supports: Would be great to see return but I doubt it's happening. At the very least, not ones that could possibly change the outcome of the game's relationship-dynamics, which are more along the themes of "Destined lovers" than the rest of the series with all it's variables. Still possible to work around though... of course, it could also just be done Radiant Dawn-style.... Reclass: Is good. Except now we'll have to figure out how the heck Hardin went from a Speed-type class Cavalier to a Power-type class General when he went evil. . Perhaps it'll need to be complexed up a bit.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 (edited) Indeed, actual axe users would be nice, especially with how many silver axes the game throws at you. Make them new axe users, though Barst would be a nice return (The Danny Glover to Ogma's Mel Gibson before he went psycho ) The last part is easy though. dark orb h4xes the game. Light orb negates it because light h4x>dark h4x Edited February 15, 2009 by Grandjackal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 (edited) Hardin is not a General in Book 2. He has max speed as well. Edited February 15, 2009 by Chainey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Cord doesn't fail totally and his oober offense might actually come in handy so he can come along for the ride too, just in case. Besides, he can be Joe Pesci. Eff Bord though, he can die in a fire. Or better yet, by Sirius's lance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Cord doesn't fail totally and his oober offense might actually come in handy so he can come along for the ride too, just in case. Besides, he can be Joe Pesci.Eff Bord though, he can die in a fire. Or better yet, by Sirius's lance. Dude, you can't kill Chris Farley! Only Chris Farley can kill Chris Farley! Or whatever, he can be...dammit, what's his name? The dude from Casino who co-starred with Pesci. Maybe they could have a choose your survivor deal with chosing between Bord and Cord in the viking chapter. However, they'd actually have to give Bord some actual DEFENSE. He's just a pissant here. Also, bring back Raddy and Ceasar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seph Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 They should make Wolf and Zagaro able to join your team. I sure hope so. If not, Zagaro will make all your attacks go tink and you'd be unable to beat him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Butbubtubt making him Chris Farley would kill the whole Lethal Weapon thing we have going on! D: Also, Zagaro as Clint Eastwood, Wolf as Charlie Sheen. If you haven't watched the Rookie you won't get any of that so don't try. The dude from Casino who co-starred with Pesci. Robert de Niro. You mean Robert de Niro, right? Haven't actually seen the whole thing, just bits and pieces of it. However, they'd actually have to give Bord some actual DEFENSE. He's just a pissant here. yarly. It's pretty lol when Daros totally obsoletes you. Does it have to be the barbarian chapter, though? To me, it makes more sense if the Ogma mercs are protecting the kids. Also, bring back Raddy and Ceasar. Eh, it wouldn't kill them to buff em a bit. Yeah, Caesar got buffed, but that just made him Up-Mid instead of low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Cord and Bord became woodcutters. Barst, for whatever reason, became a Pirate. I can see Barst coming back in Pirate form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 (edited) Hm. Maybe we can keep Bord and Cord with the mercs [They left woodcutting temporarily since they just can't say no to an old friend], but leave Barst as a pirate, wandering around one of the maps as a red unit. Let's say Ogma doesn't know Barst has turned to piracy and now he has to talk his former comrade back into his senses before he joins up with Marth again. I'm bored as crap and can't sleep and seriously need something to do so I'm even going to give you an example of this in script form. [Ogma moves to the space next to Barst and talks] Ogma: Barst?! Is that you?!Barst: ...Oh...Captain Ogma. Ogma: There's no need to call me that anymore. You chose to leave, and I respect that. But...what have you been up to? Barst: ... Ogma: Don't lie to me. I can tell. Your clothes, your stench, and that look in your eyes....Barst, you've turned to piracy, haven't you? Barst: ...I have. Playing nice guy didn't land me anywhere but the poorhouse. I'm done fighting for the good guys. If I have to hack down a few innocents to make a living, so be it. Ogma: Barst! How could you?! This isn't like you at all! What would your brothers say? Barst: Shut up! You just said you respected my decision! Well, I don't take orders from you, OR my family anymore! This is my life, and I decide how I'm going to make something out of it! Ogma: Barst, look at yourself! You're a common bandit! You're happy with this?! This can't be the only way to make a living! Barst: You're suggesting I keep fighting with you for enough gold to feed a mouse? Maybe my brothers can suck up and deal with it, but I'm done with that. They can take a lot more than I can... Ogma: I don't care what you do, Barst! Just...please. Don't do this. Look, I'm sorry you're got fed up, we did- Barst: I know you did, Captain. We might have never made a steady income, but it wasn't your fault. Every day you did your best to make sure myself and my brothers were well fed and clothed...you put our safety before your own. I appreciate that. I really do. Ogma: ...Thank you, Barst. Barst: ...Don't... Ogma: ...Barst. Barst: ...Yes? Ogma: This is a stupid question, and I'm kidding myself if the answer is what I want it to be. But....Barst, please be honest with me. Have you killed anybody for their coin? Barst: ... Ogma: ...You have. Barst: ...Yes. Ogma: I thought as much. Barst, you've chosen a terrible path, even if you thought it was the right thing to do...but you have a better reason than most bandits do to murder. That still doesn't make it a good reason, but...Barst, what I'm trying to say is that it's not too late. If you stop this now, I'm sure you can be forgiven. Barst: ...No. Ogma: Barst, please... Barst: I can't. Captain, I'm sorry, but I can't. I don't have the skill with wood that my brothers do...my axe is for killing, not carving. I'm only a burden on them. I haven't been able to find work anywhere, at least not work that pays good. I'm sorry, Captain. I know you don't approve, but for me...this is the only way. Ogma: ...Barst....I'm sorry. Barst: .... Ogma: You know how much it hurts me to do this...I don't even know how I'm going to explain this to your brothers. But you don't give me a choice. ...I don't blame you for your choices, even if I can't agree with them. ...Goodbye, Barst. Barst: ...Stop! Ogma: Huh? Barst: ...I won't fight you, Captain. I can't fight you. Ogma: ... Barst: I'm done with piracy. I promise. Ogma: ...Thank you, Barst. You know how much it would have hurt me to kill you. Barst: But... Ogma: Yes? Barst: ...What will I do? How will I live? Ogma: We'll find something for you, Barst. I promise. Look, I've been promoted since you last saw me, I can probably pull some strings and arrange a guard post for you. Barst: ... Ogma: Barst? Barst: ...I'm sorry. It's just that, after all I've done, you still consider me a comrade... Ogma: Of course, Barst, remember what I told you. It's not too late. You can be forgiven. You made the right decision this time. ...Thank you. Barst: You're..welcome...Captain... Ogma: Don't tear up on me now, Barst. Before any of that happens, we need to get through this battle, and this war, alive. Barst: Yes... Ogma: Very well, then. It's great to have you back with us. Onwards! Barst: .... Ogma: ...Barst? Is something else wrong? Barst: ...The prince. You can turn me in and make a small fortune... Ogma: ... Barst: I'm just saying, the option's there, and you'd probably benefit more from it in the long run. I've done some bad things...I won't blame you if you choose to stab me in the back. Ogma: Barst! Were you listening to a word I said? Barst: ... Ogma: I said you can be forgiven for your actions. I have no desire to punish you for them...you've been punished enough. You have the blood of people whom you never desired to kill on your hands: That's worse than any jail time you can get. You can get out of prison. You'll never escape from your crimes. Even if you are forgiven by others, you still have to live with your actions. Actions that caused permanent damage. Barst: ... Ogma: I'm not turning you in, not now, not ever. Not to Prince Marth, not to Princess Shiida, not to anybody. Not for any sum in the world. Do you trust me, Barst? Barst: ...Of...Of course I do, Captain. Ogma: Excellent. Then you'll fight for us? Barst: ...I will. I'll follow you into the flames of hell. Ogma: I'm glad to hear it, Barst. Now....charge! Meh, awful length for what was meant to just be a rough idea, but I'm sure you see what I'm getting at. Edited February 15, 2009 by Sweet Tooth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 And Merric can be Jack Nicholson. But that all sounds good. By the way, the Chris Farley thing...Bord sucks. ONly reasonable he ruins things, right? Besides, with the likes of Joe Pescie, Mel Gibson and Danny Glover, it's about time Chris Farley had a serious acting role. Lol, jokes at the expense of a dead funny man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 And Merric can be Jack Nicholson. Merric: Give me the bat, Linde... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Merric: Give me the bat, Linde... How could you have missed the obvious? Merric: You want answers? Elren: I want the truth! Merric: YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoNameAtAll Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Cord and Bord became woodcutters. Barst, for whatever reason, became a Pirate.I can see Barst coming back in Pirate form. CLEARLY, he went off to go fight some ninjas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 *Sees the convo with barst and ogma* Not...bad...at all...o.o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Heh, even better when you consider I probably did it better than IS would care to...at four in the morning. I should so apply for a scriptwriter position >_> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Right. Man, this makes me wanna continue with the character backstory in that one topic...trying to get it revived, but no one noticed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Shiu and Watch Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 also add data tradnsfer like RD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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