Lotsa help needed.

[SupremeRulerOfJugdral]

Unless you did Claude x Lachesis, Nanna can't use Recover, as it's a B rank staff. Leaf will be able of making great use of it once he promotes, though.

Ah, yes. That. Sorry, So Nanna ISN'T getting Recover. Whatever, she still has Relive.

Anyways. Chapter 8. Blume and the Mage Sisters were very easy last chapter. Any significant differences in them this time? What to do with Lenster and Co.? (It's Leaf, Fin and Nanna)

Alright. Any events I downright HAVE to be freaking aware of if I have hope of finishing this chapter between 50-60 turns? (This is my first playthrough, so screw the rank.)

[Fia]

Any events I downright HAVE to be freaking aware of if I have hope of finishing this chapter between 50-60 turns? (This is my first playthrough, so screw the rank.)

One word: Ishtar.

[Drayano]

To get past Ishtar, you can either;

1. Recruit Faval and take a potshot with the Ichival. It will be a OHKO most likely but only ~50% to hit.

2. Wait until Julius warps in and takes Ishtar anyway, which will happen about ~6-7 turns after Ishtar appears.

[SupremeRulerOfJugdral]

Okay, but what does she have on her?

[TheEnd]

Okay, but what does she have on her?

Thorhammer.

[Robert]

nanna, delmudd, and celice for charisma, charisma, and leadership bonuses respectively.

[dondon151]

Fixed.

No, not fixed. All wind tomes have 2 WT, all thunder tomes have 7 WT, and all fire tomes have 12 WT. All have the same MT at their respective levels, all are worth the same (except Elfire is more expensive than Elthunder or Elwind), all have the same hit, etc. Considering that you're still facing a majority of melee enemies where WTA doesn't matter, there's like no point to carrying around fire when you already have thunder and wind.

[Drayano]

Ignoring Holsety, Elwind is arguably the best magic tome in the game, with Tron coming just a little below.

Mainly because Volcanon sucks and barely anyone can use Tornado apart from Leaf. Tornado is amazing on Levin!Tinny but otherwise there is barely anyone who can use it.

[Robert]

No, not fixed. All wind tomes have 2 WT, all thunder tomes have 7 WT, and all fire tomes have 12 WT. All have the same MT at their respective levels, all are worth the same (except Elfire is more expensive than Elthunder or Elwind), all have the same hit, etc. Considering that you're still facing a majority of melee enemies where WTA doesn't matter, there's like no point to carrying around fire when you already have thunder and wind.

not true, holsety has 5 WT, thorhammer, and faraflame 15. Just thought I'd point that out, but you are right, there is no reason besides weapon triange to use fire over wind or thunder.

Ignoring Holsety, Elwind is arguably the best magic tome in the game, with Tron coming just a little below.

Mainly because Volcanon sucks and barely anyone can use Tornado apart from Leaf. Tornado is amazing on Levin!Tinny but otherwise there is barely anyone who can use it.

Thoron is not really better than Tornado.

It makes a good back up for Sety, and is better stat wise than thoron.

[Drayano]

I suppose.

I'm just biased because of Tinny's Tron abuse

[TheEnd]

not true, holsety has 5 WT, thorhammer, and faraflame 15. Just thought I'd point that out, but you are right, there is no reason besides weapon triange to use fire over wind or thunder.

Huh, I'm sure he meant the regular spells (A, B, C rank), not the long range or holy weapons.

Thoron is not really better than Tornado.

Arthur and Tinny can always use it. Only Levin's children and Leaf can use Tornado. A good weapon you can't make use of isn't actually that good, don't you think?

It makes a good back up for Sety, and is better stat wise than thoron.

Sety already has Lightning (which is good enough for all his arena needs) and possibly Elwind (which probably has a nice amount of kills from 1st gen). Tornado is usually either going to Levin!Tinny, Leaf or remaining completely unused.

[_____]

It makes a good back up for Sety, and is better stat wise than thoron.

Sety's only going to be able to use it when Levin's his father, and at that point, he'll be pwning with Holsety. There's no need for a back-up. He rapes the arena for all the money he needs. The only non-Holsety wielding person to use it is Leaf, and even then there're much better weapons.

Tinny gets Tron after promotion. No ifs, ands, or buts.

Edit: Damn you, TheEnd.

Edited February 8, 2009 by Lester

[Drayano]

I suppose the fact they had to give Musar minor Holsety blood to get him to wield Tornado is a testament to the availability problems it has.

[Robert]

I do not understand why just because only one or two units use the weapon make it worse.

Leaf with tornado is fine, you can count him because you can use him.

Better weapons? You can give him some silver and maybe something else special, but tornado tops any magic ranged sword.

[TheEnd]

I do not understand why just because only one or two units use the weapon make it worse.

Because you might end up not being able to effectively use it at all, while Arthur and Tinny will always be able to employ Thoron as soon as they class change?

Leaf with tornado is fine, you can count him because you can use him.

Better weapons? You can give him some silver and maybe something else special, but tornado tops any magic ranged sword.

Usually, Leaf will have like 27 strength and 9, 10 magic.

You can do the math.

[Robert]

30 might with tornado. Magic damage means more damage because physical units do not have as much res.

Critical and continue are enough.

I am not arguing that tornado > thoron,

I am saying that tornado is close behind, and can be effective as a ranged, magic weapon.

Also, as long as one person can use the weapon, you can utilize it.

In tinny and arthurs case, what does it matter if two of them can use it? Only one will be actually using it, and there is no free trading.

They all have to wait upon promotion.

[TheEnd]

30 might with tornado. Magic damage means more damage because physical units do not have as much res.

Critical and continue are enough.

I am not arguing that tornado > thoron,

I am saying that tornado is close behind, and can be effective as a ranged, magic weapon.

Also, as long as one person can use the weapon, you can utilize it.

In tinny and arthurs case, what does it matter if two of them can use it? Only one will be actually using it, and there is no free trading.

They all have to wait upon promotion.

After you get Tornado, though, you start fighting a much larger amount of magic units (chapter 10 and epilogue), though. Also, the difference between the enemies' defense and resistance by then is usually lower than the one between Leaf's strength and magic - 30 magic against 5 res isn't better than 45 physical against 14 def, after all.

That said, Leaf is better off with physical weaponry, and makes rather poor use of Tornado. He can equip it, but it doesn't really help boost his efficiency. So, unless you paired Levin with Tiltyu (or missed Holsety), the result is: none of your units is getting stronger with that Tornado. (In case it isn't clear enough by now: in the case of Levin/Tiltyu, Arthur uses Holsety and Tinny gets Tornado.)

Edited February 9, 2009 by Anborn Arsar

[Robert]

It makes a good ranged weapon for leaf and is certainly better than a wind sword. It is good to have a ranged weapon or so; to have diverse weaponry to make good use of the fact that he can use almost any weapon. If he wants to attack ajacently to a bowman or ranged from a close combat fighter for some reason.

The true point is the if or when tornado get in capable hands, it is better than Thoron. It is "considered" slightly worse because it is harder to get into capable hands. End of story.

Edited February 9, 2009 by The Gambit

[Herr Wozzeck]

To get past Ishtar, you can either;

1. Recruit Faval and take a potshot with the Ichival. It will be a OHKO most likely but only ~50% to hit.

2. Wait until Julius warps in and takes Ishtar anyway, which will happen about ~6-7 turns after Ishtar appears.

You forgot that Aless and Shanan can go up against Ishtar without suffering heavily since Balmung has the speed bonus and Mistholin has its res bonus and critical capability.

[Fia]

You forgot that Aless and Shanan can go up against Ishtar without suffering heavily since Balmung has the speed bonus and Mistholin has its res bonus and critical capability.

You forgot that Ishtar has +20 skill bonus.

But Chapter 8!Ishtar is hardly a problem, wait at least for Chapter 10 or the Epilogue.

[Kriemhild]

You forgot that Ishtar has +20 skill bonus.

But Chapter 8!Ishtar is hardly a problem, wait at least for Chapter 10 or the Epilogue.

I took care of Ch 8!Ishtar with Mistoltin. It Criticaled. I used Gae Bolg for Ch 10!Ishtar and Mistoltin again (critical as usual) for Final Chapter.

[Herr Wozzeck]

You forgot that Ishtar has +20 skill bonus.

But Chapter 8!Ishtar is hardly a problem, wait at least for Chapter 10 or the Epilogue.

By Chapter 10/Epilogue, though, you have Holsety unless you did Levin/Sylvia, and with that Chapter10!Ishtar becomes the easiest bitch to kill in the entire series, even if Torhammer is so fucking annoying pre-Holsety.

[_____]

It makes a good ranged weapon for leaf and is certainly better than a wind sword. It is good to have a ranged weapon or so; to have diverse weaponry to make good use of the fact that he can use almost any weapon. If he wants to attack ajacently to a bowman or ranged from a close combat fighter for some reason.

The true point is the if or when tornado get in capable hands, it is better than Thoron. It is "considered" slightly worse because it is harder to get into capable hands. End of story.

Wind Sword probably > Tornado in the hands of Leaf because it uses Strength at close range. If he wants a ranged weapon, he can use a bow.

No, it isn't. Thoron comes earlier, and you don't have to waste your Elite Ring on a unit like Leaf just to use it.

[Robert]

First of all if you are attacking up close, you would not use a wind sword, you would use at least a steel or one of the blades.

I am not talking about the worth in general.

Say a unit can use tornado and thoron. You would use tornado more often than thoron because of the weight.

I am NOT arguing that it is better in general.

Leaf is not a waste at all.

[_____]

First of all if you are attacking up close, you would not use a wind sword, you would use at least a steel or one of the blades.

I am not talking about the worth in general.

Say a unit can use tornado and thoron. You would use tornado more often than thoron because of the weight.

I am NOT arguing that it is better in general.

Leaf is not a waste at all.

I was talking about the enemy phase.

So, when Leaf uses a tome Tornado > Thoron? Uhhhh... wut. Why would you even start an arguement over that?

^See above

Leaf is pretty meh. Bad start, yadda yadda.