FE5

[Don Draper]

Yeah, actually use Dean before you comment kthnx.

[Rei Rei]

Yeah, actually use Dean before you comment kthnx.

Stop trolling So, let's agree on this, at least:

Dean>Carrion>>>>Brighton?

[Seph]

Brighton is better than both.

He comes very early, Wrath is fucking sick, and axes are cool in this game.

[Rei Rei]

Brighton is better than both.

He comes very early, Wrath is fucking sick, and axes are cool in this game.

Wrath is sick when it actually lands(it can miss after all), and his Axe Skills only com in hand after some chapters, when the hard part is gone.

[Seph]

Wrath is sick when it actually lands(it can miss after all), and his Axe Skills only com in hand after some chapters, when the hard part is gone.

He can use swords in indoor chapters for accuracy and he can use a skill scroll for axe accuracy. At base level with a Steel Axe, he has like 69 hit, aided by the weapon triangle and leadership bonus. It's nothing great, but it can be fixed. Enemies have mostly poor avoid anyway.

[Rei Rei]

He can use swords in indoor chapters for accuracy and he can use a skill scroll for axe accuracy. At base level with a Steel Axe, he has like 69 hit, aided by the weapon triangle and leadership bonus. It's nothing great, but it can be fixed. Enemies have mostly poor avoid anyway.

The fact that he needs a skill scroll already doesn't make him better than Dean and Carion(which doesn't even need Wrath, btw).

Also, Brighton, and everyone except Asvel and Dalshien are using swords in 3 Chapters full of enemies wielding lances, making thei situation a bit harder.

[Seph]

The fact that he needs a skill scroll already doesn't make him better than Dean and Carion(which doesn't even need Wrath, btw).

I never said that. I said it's not a very big problem.

Also, Brighton, and everyone except Asvel and Dalshien are using swords in 3 Chapters full of enemies wielding lances, making thei situation a bit harder.

What does this have to do with anything?

And, Brighton is still killing those even with a sword, thanks to Wrath.

[Rei Rei]

I never said that. I said it's not a very big problem.

But you said it could be fixed :P

What does this have to do with anything?

And, Brighton is still killing those even with a sword, thanks to Wrath.

It has to do with the weapon triangle that you mentioned on his favor.

I know that he's gonna kill, though I was originally saying that Carion is better than him, with better stats & he's the only way to get the Elite Sword.

[Seph]

But you said it could be fixed

Having to fix something is generally a bad thing.

It has to do with the weapon triangle that you mentioned on his favor.

The other chapters don't count nymore?

I know that he's gonna kill, though I was originally saying that Carion is better than him, with better stats & he's the only way to get the Elite Sword.

Brighton is around for longer, he has axes, Carion is more fragile, Brighton's Wrath is more reliable, etc.

[Rei Rei]

Having to fix something is generally a bad thing.

The other chapters don't count nymore?

Brighton is around for longer, he has axes, Carion is more fragile, Brighton's Wrath is more reliable, etc.

But it would be better if there were nothing to fix.

Of course they count, but Brighton, in a chapter like 21, is going to get his ass handed by all the wyverns+prepromotes+poison ballistae.

Brighton is not around when Carrion joins,and Carrion has higher(way higher IMO) SKL than Brighton, which makes Wrath not being so important, and although low-leveled, his joining time is quite perfect. Plus, Carrion can wield Lances(Knight Killers, more abundant than Pole Axes), and Swords(he's going to level his sword skills fast), thus having a little more advantage due to the only difference between he being mounted and unmounted will be the MOV(and Capturing, but that's why you have other guys like Dean)

[Seph]

But it would be better if there were nothing to fix.

I know that, but it's not as big of a problem. My entire point.

Of course they count, but Brighton, in a chapter like 21, is going to get his ass handed by all the wyverns+prepromotes+poison ballistae.

What the fuck does this mean? Everyone gets their ass handed by them. And plus, why is Brighton so exceptional?

Brighton is not around when Carrion joins,and Carrion has higher(way higher IMO) SKL than Brighton, which makes Wrath not being so important

Carion has a PC of 4. Wrath always works. And skill only caps at 20.

Plus, Carrion can wield Lances(Knight Killers, more abundant than Pole Axes), and Swords(he's going to level his sword skills fast), thus having a little more advantage due to the only difference between he being mounted and unmounted will be the MOV(and Capturing, but that's why you have other guys like Dean)

What about the stat decreases?

And it's not like Brighton needs those Pole Axes, he has axes + Wrath to rely on on the enemy phase instead.

[Rei Rei]

What the fuck does this mean? Everyone gets their ass handed by them. And plus, why is Brighton so exceptional?

His main weapon is only usable while mounted, and Carrion, albeit being on the bad side of the WT,manages to not getting beaten up so badly being unmounted.

Carion has a PC of 4. Wrath always works. And skill only caps at 20.

80% is pretty solid, don't you think?

What about the stat decreases?

Such as?

And it's not like Brighton needs those Pole Axes, he has axes + Wrath to rely on on the enemy phase instead.

If he's going to beat those prepromotes in Ch21, or even the ones in Ch19, yes, he needs it more than wrath.

[Seph]

His main weapon is only usable while mounted, and Carrion, albeit being on the bad side of the WT,manages to not getting beaten up so badly being unmounted.

He is mounted in 21.

Not only that. He can use a good sword such as the Silver Sword, Hero Sword if he wants to, and be powerful even without the axe. He is still raping everything in the face with Wrath and double attacks.

80% is pretty solid, don't you think?

80% is good, but Wrath is better. 80% happens 4/5 of the time. That 1 battle, no crit.

"but Kill swords". Carion already has a PC of 4, why not your other units? Many, many of your units use swords.

It's not always 80%. You forgot critical evade too. If Carrion has a crit of 17 (assuming enemy has 6 luck) then he has 68 crit. Meaning out of 50 times, he will crit 34 times. Not too reliable. While Brighton, can do it 50/50 times.

Such as?

http://serenesforest.net/fe5/dismount.html

If he's going to beat those prepromotes in Ch21, or even the ones in Ch19, yes, he needs it more than wrath.

Very well, Chapter 21. The following will not include double attacking of any kind to be generous.

Assuming Brighton is level 10 promoted and has 15 strength. The boss Seyme (wyvern knight) has 15 defence and 48 HP. Meaning, with a Silver Axe, Brighton shall rape this boss.

Only the boss needs the Silver Axe. What about the other units? He'll rape all of them, without needing a Silver Axe.

The strongest axe armor I could find has 31 HP and 14 def. Raped by Wrath.

An axe knight has 4 def and 30 HP. Raped.

Fast forward to Chapter 23, the strongest great knights are here I believe. Anyway, they have like 38 HP and 12 def. Raped with a Steel Axe.

Chapter 19.. you may not even want to fight. Anyway, with a Steel Axe and about 13 strength, he has 52 might at Wrath, which means he is still raping everyone here except the boss.

Edited February 10, 2009 by Alvis

[Rei Rei]

He is mounted in 21.

I know.

Not only that. He can use a good sword such as the Silver Sword, Hero Sword if he wants to, and be powerful even without the axe. He is still raping everything in the face with Wrath and double attacks.

OF COURSE, let's just ignore all the logic about only using axes with Brighton, let's just pit him unmounted with a sword until he gets to level B swords, that would be good.

80% is good, but Wrath is better. 80% happens 4/5 of the time. That 1 battle, no crit.

"but Kill swords". Carion already has a PC of 4, why not your other units? Many, many of your units use swords.

It's not always 80%. You forget critical evade too. If Carrion has a crit of 17 (assuming enemy has 6 luck) then he has 68 crit. Meaning out of 50 times, he will crit 34 times. Not too reliable. While Brighton, can do it 50/50 times.

Very few enemies have that kind of luck, some of them being armour, and more vulnerable than other units, as Rapiers are not THAT rare.

Very well, Chapter 21. The following will not include doubling of any kind, and I shall be generous.

Assuming Brighton is level 10 promoted and has 15 strength. The boss Seyme (wyvern knight) has 15 defence and 48 HP. Meaning, with a Silver Axe, Brighton shall rape this boss.

And I was being generous to you, including the boss. What about the other units? He'll rape all of them, without needing a Silver Axe.

The strongest axe armor I could find has 31 HP and 14 def. Raped by Wrath.

An axe knight has 4 def and 30 HP. Raped.

Fast forward to Chapter 23, the strongest great knights are here I believe. Anyway, they have like 38 HP and 12 def. Raped with a Steel Axe.

Chapter 19.. you may not even want to fight. Anyway, with a Steel Axe and about 13 strength, he has 52 might at Wrath, which means he is still raping everyone here except the boss.

For the Ch21 Wyvern Knights, or you are assuming that they all miss, that they won't go after reinforcements, and that you always hit first. Sounds fair, one hit and you're dead anyway.

As for Ch19, I think you forgot about the Great Knights with Pole Axes that appear constantly, the Silver Swords & Bows, or even Conomore if he uses the Kill Sword. Brighton has a chance to win? Sure. But it's not like you're going to get there alive easily. In fact, is a bit too easy to die there, even if you don't count doubling. If he have, say, two Silver Axes, they are going to be broken a bit fast, leaving him to die even more easily.

[Seph]

OF COURSE, let's just ignore all the logic about only using axes with Brighton, let's just pit him unmounted with a sword until he gets to level B swords, that would be good.

Indoor chapters don't exist anymore I guess.

He comes with D in swords with an extra 10 WEXP. He needs 90 WEXP to get to B. Coupled with his availability, this is not impossible at all.

Plus, with something like a Long Sword or Iron Blade or King Sword, his Wrath might goes through the fucking roof. At Chapter 4, the enemies have like 3 def and 22 hp. They die in one hit with the Steel Sword.

Even the armors in Chapter 4 have like 9 defence and 20 HP. Brighton gets 30 might with Wrath. Dead in one hit.

So yeah, he's good without B swords. Especially when he doubles.

Very few enemies have that kind of luck, some of them being armour, and more vulnerable than other units, as Rapiers are not THAT rare.

Hm? No, there are quite a few, as seen in my chapter examinations. And you ignored that 100%>80%.

Not needing Knight Killer > needing Knight Killer.

For the Ch21 Wyvern Knights, or you are assuming that they all miss, that they won't go after reinforcements, and that you always hit first. Sounds fair, one hit and you're dead anyway.

I was talking about the boss, who has a Killer, Javelin and Vulnerary. He has 27 might, so not even one hit is killing Brighton.

Anyway, about the wyvern knights, one Horse Slayer hit doesn't kill Brighton. He has 44 HP and 16 def, while the wyverns have 52 might on a hit. He could always ditch the mount and use a Steel Sword and ORKO these bastards.

By the way, Carion has the same problem, so you can't say that shit to me.

As for Ch19, I think you forgot about the Great Knights with Pole Axes that appear constantly, the Silver Swords & Bows, or even Conomore if he uses the Kill Sword. Brighton has a chance to win? Sure. But it's not like you're going to get there alive easily. In fact, is a bit too easy to die there, even if you don't count doubling. If he have, say, two Silver Axes, they are going to be broken a bit fast, leaving him to die even more easily.

Same thing goes for Carrion, so your point is for naught.

And funnily enough, those Great Knights only have 46 might at hit. Brighton can take one even if he's at level 1 promoted. He could ditch the mount if he wanted to.

And also, you don't want to fight in Chapter 19. You will get overwhelmed like crazy. It's suicide.

Edited February 10, 2009 by Alvis

[Rei Rei]

Indoor chapters don't exist anymore I guess.

He comes with D in swords with an extra 10 WEXP. He needs 90 WEXP to get to B. Coupled with his availability, this is not impossible at all.

Plus, with something like a Long Sword or Iron Blade or King Sword, his Wrath might goes through the fucking roof. At Chapter 4, the enemies have like 3 def and 22 hp. They die in one hit with the Steel Sword.

Even the armors in Chapter 4 have like 9 defence and 20 HP. Brighton gets 30 might with Wrath. Dead in one hit.

So yeah, he's good without B swords. Especially when he doubles.

Yourself said that the game had enough Sword users (Carrion still is better at that though). Even in the jail chapters, getting all the WEXP needed is not indicated at all.

Hm? No, there are quite a few, as seen in my chapter examinations. And you ignored that 100%>80%.

Not needing Knight Killer > needing Knight Killer.

There is one chapter with some Rapiers, iirc.

And Carrion doesn't NEED the Knight Killers, he can do just as fine as Brighton with a Short Sword.

I was talking about the boss, who has a Killer, Javelin and Vulnerary. He has 27 might, so not even one hit is killing Brighton.

Anyway, about the wyvern knights, one Horse Slayer hit doesn't kill Brighton. He has 44 HP and 16 def, while the wyverns have 52 might on a hit. He could always ditch the mount and use a Steel Sword and ORKO these bastards.

Because you just assumed he was a level 10 promoted. Isn't that a bit of favoritism?

By the way, Carion has the same problem, so you can't say that shit to me.

Same thing goes for Carrion, so your point is for naught.

Carion might dodge them more than Brighton, and assuming he also is level 10 promoted, his DEF also isn't too lower than Brighton's.

And funnily enough, those Great Knights only have 46 might at hit. Brighton can take one even if he's at level 1 promoted. He could ditch the mount if he wanted to.

Carrion also could take one of them as easily as Brighton

And also, you don't want to fight in Chapter 19. You will get overwhelmed like crazy. It's suicide.

Yeah, you said one wouldn't want to fight there, but you still said he would rape everybody, 'cept for the boss.

[Seph]

I think you are arguing for Carion just because you like him.

Yourself said that the game had enough Sword users (Carrion still is better at that though). Even in the jail chapters, getting all the WEXP needed is not indicated at all.

When did I say all the WEXP needed would be acquired in jail chapters, hmm? I said he can kick ass without much WEXP.

There is one chapter with some Rapiers, iirc.

And Carrion doesn't NEED the Knight Killers, he can do just as fine as Brighton with a Short Sword.

Just as fine? Brighton's higher durability and Wrath means he is more reliable.

Because you just assumed he was a level 10 promoted. Isn't that a bit of favoritism?

He comes at Chapter 4. He has 4, 4x, 5, 6, 7, 8, 8x, 9, 10, 11, 11x, 12, 13, 14, 14x, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21. 22 chapters. It's enough.

He can survive on level 4 promoted and above, not including scrolls.

Carion might dodge them more than Brighton, and assuming he also is level 10 promoted, his DEF also isn't too lower than Brighton's.

Why the fuck are you talking about dodging now? With this game's 1 RN system, raped up the ass RNG and maximum of 60 avoid only, dodging is really something else.

Brighton has a constant HP and defence lead on Carrion (Brighton will have more levels than Carion since he comes quite earlier), making him more durable and making avoid matter less.

Carrion also could take one of them as easily as Brighton

That was not the point, again. I said they had the same problem. Nothing to do with "as easily".

Yeah, you said one wouldn't want to fight there, but you still said he would rape everybody, 'cept for the boss.

In one on one combat, yes, but if he gets ganged up on, no. It was merely a testament to his power.

Which goes for EVERY single unit, by the way.

[Rei Rei]

I think you are arguing for Carion just because you like him.

Yes, and no, he really should be above there in the tier list

When did I say all the WEXP needed would be acquired in jail chapters, hmm? I said he can kick ass without much WEXP.

Fine, use C Swords on him, let's see how good he will fair

Just as fine? Brighton's higher durability and Wrath means he is more reliable.

He comes at Chapter 4. He has 4, 4x, 5, 6, 7, 8, 8x, 9, 10, 11, 11x, 12, 13, 14, 14x, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21. 22 chapters. It's enough.

Higher you mean 2 points on DEF in average, which is kinda compensated by Carion's higher HP.

Now you're assuming that he doesn't get fatigated,which would make him unavaiable in at least 5 maps, and by Ch7, he wouldn't be needing many level ups, as the enemies are not strong and there are not many prepromotes, and why would you deploy him in all of those maps anyway? It is favoritism.

He can survive on level 4 promoted and above, not including scrolls.

That applies to Carrion as well

Why the fuck are you talking about dodging now? With this game's 1 RN system, raped up the ass RNG and maximum of 60 avoid only, dodging is really something else.

Well, dodging is fundamental if you are going against Wyverns with Horseslayers

Brighton has a constant HP and defence lead on Carrion (Brighton will have more levels than Carion since he comes quite earlier), making him more durable and making avoid matter less.

This again?

That was not the point, again. I said they had the same problem. Nothing to do with "as easily".

Taking a level 16 promote with a Pole Axe, being a level 1 promote, that could unmount if he wanted is not easy?

In one on one combat, yes, but if he gets ganged up on, no. It was merely a testament to his power.

Which goes for EVERY single unit, by the way.

That I can agree with, everybody gets ass raep'd in that Chapter

[Seph]

Fine, use C Swords on him, let's see how good he will fair

I already explained that he is kicking ass with only a Steel Sword. He doesn't even need to double. With an Iron Sword, he will be raping even more things since he can double more now.

Higher you mean 2 points on DEF in average, which is kinda compensated by Carion's higher HP.

(Brighton will have more levels than Carion since he comes quite earlier)

Now you're assuming that he doesn't get fatigated,which would make him unavaiable in at least 5 maps, and by Ch7, he wouldn't be needing many level ups, as the enemies are not strong and there are not many prepromotes, and why would you deploy him in all of those maps anyway? It is favoritism.

In some maps he will gain several, such as 5 and 4. FE5 maps are very large anyway, meaning more enemies.

In a FE debate, we assume everyone gets the same amount of kills, not by the need.

That applies to Carrion as well

That was not the point. I said Brighton doesn't need to be level 10 to survive.

Well, dodging is fundamental if you are going against Wyverns with Horseslayers

Wyverns with Horseslayers aren't the only things in the game. We are talking about the game in general.

Avoid is simply unreliable in this game. Brighton's superior durability will make him superior in these cases.

This again?

It's not wrong.

Taking a level 16 promote with a Pole Axe, being a level 1 promote, that could unmount if he wanted is not easy?

I don't get this sentence.

That I can agree with, everybody gets ass raep'd in that Chapter

Okay.

[Rei Rei]

I already explained that he is kicking ass with only a Steel Sword. He doesn't even need to double. With an Iron Sword, he will be raping even more things since he can double more now.

We were talking about how fair he would do in theory, assuming everything went right.

(Brighton will have more levels than Carion since he comes quite earlier)

Let's say that you end up with Brighton in level 10, which is more than just possible to reach with everyone. Carion starts at level 1, though he can end up at level 8 by Ch8x just as fine, judging by the number of enemies.

In some maps he will gain several, such as 5 and 4. FE5 maps are very large anyway, meaning more enemies.

In a FE debate, we assume everyone gets the same amount of kills, not by the need.

Nah, I'm talking after the jail/escape chapters, when he would be quite leveled up, as most of your cast.

And this is not quite the official debate, but the rules still are going.

That was not the point. I said Brighton doesn't need to be level 10 to survive.

Nor does Carion

Wyverns with Horseslayers aren't the only things in the game. We are talking about the game in general.

Most of the things wouldn't pose as much as a problem like that.

Avoid is simply unreliable in this game. Brighton's superior durability will make him superior in these cases.

It's not as reliable as DEF, yes. And supposing we were at that while talking about Ch21, we could assume they were at the same level, and Brighton's ohso durability is not ohso higher than Carrion's. 2 DEF and 2 BLD.

It's not wrong.

Not quite, unless you mean their base level, which is kinda unfair. Considering they are at level 7, Carion starts to surpass Brighton by nearly everything, thus equalling their "durability"

I don't get this sentence.

Well, you said this:

And funnily enough, those Great Knights only have 46 might at hit. Brighton can take one even if he's at level 1 promoted. He could ditch the mount if he wanted to.

Those Great Knights are level 16 with Pole Axes, remind you. The he could ditch the mount if he wanted to is what sounded like you thought it was easy for him to beat them.

[Seph]

We were talking about how fair he would do in theory, assuming everything went right.

Um, he does well, even with a sword? I don't see the point here.

Let's say that you end up with Brighton in level 10, which is more than just possible to reach with everyone. Carion starts at level 1, though he can end up at level 8 by Ch8x just as fine, judging by the number of enemies.

You accused me of favoritism, which is funny, because that is pretty much 100% of what you're doing right now.

Favoritism /=/ debate. In a debate, we must assume that they are getting the same amount of kills, and we must consider Brighton's and Carrion's respective levels and we must also consider their availabilities, k?

Nah, I'm talking after the jail/escape chapters, when he would be quite leveled up, as most of your cast.

...What?

And this is not quite the official debate, but the rules still are going.

Thanks for proving my point?

Nor does Carion

Wow, Carion take a Knight Killer hit in Chapter 21! Big shit! It makes him better than Brighton, totally!

Why don't we look at their durabilities in the entire game first?

Most of the things wouldn't pose as much as a problem like that.

Ballista, long range magic tomes, generic enemies, etc.

Why is FE5 so notorious?

In FE5, killing enemies isn't the problem. It is surviving them.

It's not as reliable as DEF, yes. And supposing we were at that while talking about Ch21, we could assume they were at the same level, and Brighton's ohso durability is not ohso higher than Carrion's. 2 DEF and 2 BLD.

They are not at the fucking same level, how many times do I have to say it?

Favoritism /=/ debate. In a debate, we must assume that they are getting the same amount of kills, and we must consider Brighton's and Carrion's respective levels and we must also consider their availabilities, k?

Not quite, unless you mean their base level, which is kinda unfair. Considering they are at level 7, Carion starts to surpass Brighton by nearly everything, thus equalling their "durability"

Why the fuck are they both level 7? You're basically spewing illogical stuff just because you like Carion.

Those Great Knights are level 16 with Pole Axes, remind you. The he could ditch the mount if he wanted to is what sounded like you thought it was easy for him to beat them.

Those level 16 great knights also have 33 HP, 9 str, 4 mag, 13 skl, 7 spd, 4 luk, 7 def and 12 build.

He can kill pretty much all enemies in Chapter 19, but fighting there is suicide, so I don't see why you're talking about the chapter at all.

Edited February 10, 2009 by Shanan

[Rei Rei]

Um, he does well, even with a sword? I don't see the point here.

Use him only with swords?

You accused me of favoritism, which is funny, because that is pretty much 100% of what you're doing right now.

Favoritism /=/ debate. In a debate, we must assume that they are getting the same amount of kills, and we must consider Brighton's and Carrion's respective levels and we must also consider their availabilities, k?

Okay, let's compare them level by level, until 20/20. Carrion will start beating beat Brighton in a few levels, then not so much levels later, he will beat him in everything, and Brighton's availability doesn't matter much, because you can't choose which characters go and which don't.

...What?

You said he would gain several levels in Chapters 4 and 5, replying to what I said about him being fatigated(in fact you not even commented about that), but I was referring to his level up performances after you can choose your party.

Thanks for proving my point?

You're welcome?

Wow, Carion take a Knight Killer hit in Chapter 21! Big shit! It makes him better than Brighton, totally!

I never actually said he did. Heck, my first reason to say why Carion was better than Brighton were the stats!

Why don't we look at their durabilities in the entire game first?

Taking a look at the averages, Carion beats Brighton by a considerably ammount in nearly every stat.

For the actual Chapters, they would do just as well as each other by nearly every Chapter, as most of the enemies can be killed without Wrath/Crits, and they aren't reliable Boss-Killers.

Ballista, long range magic tomes, generic enemies, etc.

If Brighton has such good durability, those things would be MUCH as a problem, maybe 'cept for the magic tomes.

Why is FE5 so notorious?

Demental RNG and Ch22?

In FE5, killing enemies isn't the problem. It is surviving them.

Oh, that too. Well, really depends what the Chapter is.

They are not at the fucking same level, how many times do I have to say it?

Compare them level by level then, would it be more reasonable?

Why the fuck are they both level 7? You're basically spewing illogical stuff just because you like Carion.

Fine, what would be a reasonable level to compare them? 20/0? 20/20?

Those level 16 great knights also have 33 HP, 9 str, 4 mag, 13 skl, 7 spd, 4 luk, 7 def and 12 build.

And you said he couldn't beat them easily?

He can kill pretty much all enemies in Chapter 19, but fighting there is suicide, so I don't see why you're talking about the chapter at all.

Chapters with several numbers of Pole Axes/Horseslayers.

[Seph]

Use him only with swords?

Sigh. I never said that.

Okay, let's compare them level by level, until 20/20. Carrion will start beating beat Brighton in a few levels, then not so much levels later, he will beat him in everything, and Brighton's availability doesn't matter much, because you can't choose which characters go and which don't.

Level by level? Are you including the gigantic level difference? Carion comes at level 1 while Brighton is probably like level 10.

http://fea.fewiki.net/fea.php?character=carrion&game=5

http://fea.fewiki.net/fea.php?character=brighton&game=5

If they both gain one level per chapter, then (giving Carion some extra levels since I am a very generous man) Brighton will be level 1 promoted and Carion will be level 14. Who is winning now?

You said he would gain several levels in Chapters 4 and 5, replying to what I said about him being fatigated(in fact you not even commented about that), but I was referring to his level up performances after you can choose your party.

If Brighton gets fatigued in Chapter 8, it doesn't matter, since he will have a huge level lead anyway. At the end of that chapter, Carion should only gain about 2 levels (since in a debate, no babying is allowed).

Then, Carion doesn't function for one chapter (since he was active while Brighton was resting) while Brighton does, so it's worth it in the end.

I never actually said he did. Heck, my first reason to say why Carion was better than Brighton were the stats!

Stats don't matter much when Brighton has a huge lead on Carion, is around for longer, starts at level 5, has Wrath and axes. Sigh.

Taking a look at the averages, Carion beats Brighton by a considerably ammount in nearly every stat. For the actual Chapters, they would do just as well as each other by nearly every Chapter, as most of the enemies can be killed without Wrath/Crits, and they aren't reliable Boss-Killers.

Once again you forgot to include Brighton's huge lead.

If Brighton has such good durability, those things would be MUCH as a problem, maybe 'cept for the magic tomes.

Brighton's durability is definitely much better than Carion's. Not saying his durability is good, but it is I guess.

Demental RNG and Ch22?

That RNG pretty much makes avoid almost pointless.

Also, you can warp skip or stall Ch22. It is so easy.

Oh, that too. Well, really depends what the Chapter is.

No, we are talking about the entire game, so we are going to consider the entire game, not some chapters.

Compare them level by level then, would it be more reasonable?

If you do by the way I said it before, then k.

Fine, what would be a reasonable level to compare them? 20/0? 20/20?

Carion at Level 13 or 14, and Brighton promoted.

And you said he couldn't beat them easily?

He can unmounted. Why are we talking about this? No fighting should occur in Ch19.

Chapters with several numbers of Pole Axes/Horseslayers.

That goes for Carion and Brighton, so it cancels out.

[General Spoon]

So about all that's left to do is play the luck card, right?

[Rei Rei]

-whole post-

Okay, so most of this now is about the stats

Carion will hit and will avoid more(you can't just ignore it), and WAY more luck.Brighton gets in the lead in STR by 2 points due to promotional bonuses, and more 4 DEF, 2 points being promo bonuses.BLD doesn't matter much due to both being mounted.

Carion having 2 points more in Skl while being several levels lower should be noted.

And what's about Brighton using axes? It's not like they are the best weapon type in the game.