What class should I make Colm?

[Roxas]

Meh, Ryuzaki might have already promoted Colm by now :( .

EDIT: If you think assasins are inferior to rogue your wrong, steal a few lockpicks with Rennac for later on.

nope, not yet... o_o its still 14 vs. 12. and accounting my original vote for assassins makes it 13 vs 12.

Its been this close for like 3 days now. XD

meh. But right now, I'm obsessing myself in FE6 on trying beat chapter 20 Sacae in enough turns to get Miurge. :P

[_____]

Please proceed to explain why that thief utility is so useful when:

- You get an excellent amount of Door Keys, Chest Keys and Lockpicks.

- Barely anything to steal in the first place.

- You have Rennac who doesn't fight. (I don't think this is a very good argument but it's here anyway)

- It's a finite amount. In order to afford the stupidly expensive amounts of stat boosters and weapons you'll need to beat the game 100%, you'll need to buy those Door Keys, Chest Keys, and Lockpicks to get items, which is a waste of money when Colm is a decent combat unit who more than likely one-rounds enemies such as Bonewalkers, and can fill the role of Door and Chest Keys. What do you lose out of promoting him to a Rogue?

Silencer. lawl

- Barely is something. Certain enemies may carry items randomly, though I don't feel like looking on the main site for the answers.

- You have Colm who can fight, and thus lessens the time needed to beat stages and collect items, and increases your efficiency.

Edited February 14, 2009 by Shanam

[Dat Nick]

Sure, he would be a killing machine as an assassin but look at the enemies, do you really need one?

[looks at dracozombies]

Colm needs it if he's ever going to want to kill anything postgame.

Silencer. lawl

?

What's so lawl about 37% chance to instakill? That's pretty damn good for such an overpowering effect.

Edited February 14, 2009 by Sweet Tooth

[Dr. Tarrasque]

How often are you gonna need that instant kill? Also, 37% instant kill? How? through supports?

Edited February 14, 2009 by Levin

[Dat Nick]

How often are you gonna need that instant kill also,

Ruins much?

How? through supports?

No, through the blessings of Clint Eastwood.

Of COURSE through supports.

[Seph]

- It's a finite amount. In order to afford the stupidly expensive amounts of stat boosters and weapons you'll need to beat the game 100%, you'll need to buy those Door Keys, Chest Keys, and Lockpicks to get items, which is a waste of money when Colm is a decent combat unit who more than likely one-rounds enemies such as Bonewalkers, and can fill the role of Door and Chest Keys. What do you lose out of promoting him to a Rogue?

Oh wow, it's finite. Are they enough? They are very clearly enough. They decrease the value of Colm's thief utility. It's almost pointless. You might as well use those keys and lockpicks. Are you going to sell them? Pointless.

You underestimate Silencer. He can get an edge against enemies with huge HP and tanks thanks to it. Not only that,

= Weapon Critical + (Skill / 2) + Support bonus + Critical bonus + S Rank bonus

So Colm, with a Killing weapon at 20/5 (don't pull the favoritism shit, he should use Killing weapons since he has crap strength and should activate Silencer more often) has 36 crit without support. With A support with Kyle, can get up to 44 crit (22% for Silencer, once in 5 battles). I am totally ignoring Colm's B support since I am a nice guy, but with B support that value can go to 49 or above.

I think I should put B support too. Anyway, Kyle's Ice affinity doesn't give any crit bonus. Colm can also support with Neimi, Marisa, Rennac and Moulder. Moulder is the most desirable, really. A B support with Moulder hands him an extra 5 crit. Neimi + Colm support is great for his crit. A Neimi - Colm gives you a grand total of 15 crit, making 36 + 15 = 51 crit. With Kyle B support, that's 56 crit. So many possibilities. So yeah, once in five battle Silencer, which is pretty cool. With A Neimi and Kyle B, that's once in four battles. "not enough". However, considering the huge amount of enemies in the later chapter, it is pretty damn sweet. They also have good durability. Efficiency goes up.

I forgot about Shamshir.. +5 more crit. Win. Shall we boost the numbers up? 41 crit without support, 49 crit with A Kyle support, A Neimi + B Kyle = 61 crit. 1 Silencer per 3 battles.

Hell. He could S rank swords. Meaning +5 crit. That's sick.

"but crit evade". Hello, enemies have almost no luck in this game. Monsters in Chapter 18 and above have a mere 2 luck or 4 luck. It almost makes no difference. Even with 10 luck, it's barely any difference.

Also.. as strange as it may sound, Silencer can also help to conserve weapon uses, allowing good weapons to be used again.

- Barely is something. Certain enemies may carry items randomly, though I don't feel like looking on the main site for the answers.

Red Gems are almost useless.

Stat up items are too. Look at it this way. Enemies in this game are pathetic. While it is good to hand some characters some stat up items, it is far from essential and is ignorable. Heck, you don't even get many of them. It's just a Body Ring, Goddess Icon and Speedwing. It does pretty much nothing to efficiency, if at all.

- You have Colm who can fight, and thus lessens the time needed to beat stages and collect items, and increases your efficiency.

These items you speak of (other than chests, which can be gotten by using Chest Keys and Lockpicks) are worth almost nothing, as explained before.

So yeah, Assassin > Rogue please.

Edited February 14, 2009 by Shanan

[Dat Nick]

waste of money

Money is an issue postgame?

Killing weapon

Assassins get access to Shamshir.

You do the math.

[Seph]

Assassins get access to Shamshir.

You do the math.

I remembered just before you posted.

Thanks anyway.

I hope that post proved the Assassin > Rogue thing.

Edited February 14, 2009 by Shanan

[Roxas]

...wait. Rogues can't use Shamshir? But thieves can! :o

[Florete]

- It's a finite amount. In order to afford the stupidly expensive amounts of stat boosters and weapons you'll need to beat the game 100%, you'll need to buy those Door Keys, Chest Keys, and Lockpicks to get items, which is a waste of money when Colm is a decent combat unit who more than likely one-rounds enemies such as Bonewalkers, and can fill the role of Door and Chest Keys. What do you lose out of promoting him to a Rogue?

Silencer. lawl

- Barely is something. Certain enemies may carry items randomly, though I don't feel like looking on the main site for the answers.

- You have Colm who can fight, and thus lessens the time needed to beat stages and collect items, and increases your efficiency.

It's been handled, but I'll take a shot.

Time is unlimited postgame, as is money. Your first paragraph is hardly even an argument. Look at Shanan's post for why Silencer is better than you think.

As I mentioned before, I can think of a single Guiding Ring to steal in the desert, and Colm might not even be promoted yet, and Rennac exists. There's a Red Gem in the next chapter, a Goddess Icon in 17, and...that's it. That's all to steal after Colm promotes. Rennac exists.

He fights better if he can activate Silencer. <_<

[_____]

Oh wow, it's finite. Are they enough? They are very clearly enough. They decrease the value of Colm's thief utility. It's almost pointless. You might as well use those keys and lockpicks. Are you going to sell them? Pointless.

You underestimate Silencer. He can get an edge against enemies with huge HP and tanks thanks to it. Not only that,

= Weapon Critical + (Skill / 2) + Support bonus + Critical bonus + S Rank bonus

So Colm, with a Killing weapon at 20/5 (don't pull the favoritism shit, he should use Killing weapons since he has crap strength and should activate Silencer more often) has 36 crit without support. With A support with Kyle, can get up to 44 crit (22% for Silencer, once in 5 battles). I am totally ignoring Colm's B support since I am a nice guy, but with B support that value can go to 49 or above.

I think I should put B support too. Anyway, Kyle's Ice affinity doesn't give any crit bonus. Colm can also support with Neimi, Marisa, Rennac and Moulder. Moulder is the most desirable, really. A B support with Moulder hands him an extra 5 crit. Neimi + Colm support is great for his crit. A Neimi - Colm gives you a grand total of 15 crit, making 36 + 15 = 51 crit. With Kyle B support, that's 56 crit. So many possibilities. So yeah, once in five battle Silencer, which is pretty cool. With A Neimi and Kyle B, that's once in four battles. "not enough". However, considering the huge amount of enemies in the later chapter, it is pretty damn sweet. They also have good durability. Efficiency goes up.

I forgot about Shamshir.. +5 more crit. Win. Shall we boost the numbers up? 41 crit without support, 49 crit with A Kyle support, A Neimi + B Kyle = 61 crit. 1 Silencer per 3 battles.

"but crit evade". Hello, enemies have almost no luck in this game. Monsters in Chapter 18 and above have a mere 2 luck or 4 luck. It almost makes no difference. Even with 10 luck, it's barely any difference.

Also.. as strange as it may sound, Silencer can also help to conserve weapon uses, allowing good weapons to be used again.

Red Gems are almost useless.

Stat up items are too. Look at it this way. Enemies in this game are pathetic. While it is good to hand some characters some stat up items, it is far from essential and is ignorable. Heck, you don't even get many of them. It's just a Body Ring, Goddess Icon and Speedwing. It does pretty much nothing to efficiency, if at all.

These items you speak of (other than chests, which can be gotten by using Chest Keys and Lockpicks) are worth almost nothing, as explained before.

So yeah, Assassin > Rogue please.

I'm not going to bother posting a wtfhuge post.

- Really, the only things that Colm probably won't 1-round would be the rare Cyclops and Draco Zombies. Everything else is complete overkill. Thus, there's no point to it.

Also, yeah, you can sell those keys and picks for more money when you have ROGUES. Even if you're using Rennac, they're worthless.

-100% complete means capping everyone's stats. Ergo, stat boosters are essential.

- I was speaking of items in chests. Having a combat unit waste a turn getting an item < having a Rogue get it.

Assassins and Rogues share shit caps. If you're going to use a combat unit, no one would suggest using an Assassin. Colm's saving grace is stealing and picking. You're probably rushing the ruins/tower with mounted and flying units, anyway.

[Seph]

Looks like I was right on with my supports.

- Really, the only things that Colm probably won't 1-round would be the rare Cyclops and Draco Zombies. Everything else is complete overkill. Thus, there's no point to it.

20/5 Colm has 13 str.

Shamshir has 8 might, meaning 21 might. That is not enough to kill a lot, a lot of enemies. Generals, Wights, Draco Zombies, Cyclops, etc. etc. etc., so many things. So, if a Wight at chapter 18 has 47 HP and 11 def. You do 10 damage per hit. With a crit, that's 30. It won't die in two attacks.

"two crits in a row". If you have 50 chance to crit on that monster with Shamshir, you have 25% to crit twice in a row. Not enough.

Adding in supports. Say if Colm gets 2 might from a support, it's still not enough to kill plenty of enemies.

Also, yeah, you can sell those keys and picks for more money when you have ROGUES. Even if you're using Rennac, they're worthless.

I laughed. You sell a Chest Key for like, 150, and a Door Key for like 25? Hah!

You might as well use those items. With Assassin Colm, you CAN make use of those items instead of selling them needlessly and get Silencer.

-100% complete means capping everyone's stats. Ergo, stat boosters are essential.

This has nothing to do with.. anything. We just want to complete the game efficiently. The enemies are so weak that, stat boosters don't matter. What the fuck are you trying to pull?

- I was speaking of items in chests. Having a combat unit waste a turn getting an item < having a Rogue get it.

Who says combat units always have to fight? And Assassin Colm CAN use Lockpicks, you know.

Also, Rennac.

Assassins and Rogues share shit caps. If you're going to use a combat unit, no one would suggest using an Assassin. Colm's saving grace is stealing and picking. You're probably rushing the ruins/tower with mounted and flying units, anyway.

That saving grace is really not as important, thanks to keys and lockpicks.

Edited February 14, 2009 by Shanan

[_____]

20/5 Colm has 13 str.

Shamshir has 8 might, meaning 21 might. That is not enough to kill a lot, a lot of enemies. Generals, Wights, Draco Zombies, Cyclops, etc. etc. etc., so many things. So, if a Wight at chapter 18 has 47 HP and 11 def. You do 10 damage per hit. With a crit, that's 30. It won't die in two attacks.

"two crits in a row". If you have 50 chance to crit on that monster with Shamshir, you have 25% to crit twice in a row. Not enough.

I laughed. You sell a Chest Key for like, 150, and a Door Key for like 25? Hah!

You might as well use those items. With Assassin Colm, you CAN make use of those items instead of selling them needlessly and get Silencer.

This has nothing to do with.. anything. We just want to complete the game efficiently. The enemies are so weak that, stat boosters don't matter. What the fuck are you trying to pull?

Who says combat units always have to fight? And Assassin Colm CAN use Lockpicks, you know.

Also, Rennac.

That saving grace is really not as important, thanks to keys and lockpicks.

This topic deals with completing the game 100%. I'm not talking about during the actual game. If you're trying to beat the game 100% as the topic creator is, then Colm can more than likely reach 20/20. 20/20 Colm has 19.8 strength, so let's round that down to 19. He's doing 32 damage to that Wight without pulling a critical (which is unlikely), and he's killing it with a single critical. So, Silencer? Useless.

And he's still not fighting because he has to run to chests, and you're wasting money on items. Doesn't sound too good to me.

Once again, this topic deals with Assassin vs. Rogue WHEN TRYING TO COMPLETE THE GAME 100%.

So, you're promoting him to a more combat-based unit so he can pick locks. Yeah, that makes total sense.

If Rennac's there, why use Colm at all? There're MUCH better combat units.

^ Read above, replacing Rennac with keys and picks.

[Florete]

This topic deals with completing the game 100%.

I dunno. I'm now finally going through Ephraim Hard, and I just realized something.

Colm is the only thief you get. Naturally, you wanna make him an assassin to keep in canon of thieves.

But then again.... Colm has CRAPPY skill growths. 20/20'ed with 19 skill. Skill is supposed to be their strong point? How the hell can i get a silencer if i only have 34 crit with a killing edge? Has this happened to you?

I don't know if I should make him a rouge or not, 'cuz I find him useful with a Neimi and Kyle support.

Assassin or rogue?

-stalling time with Fe6 until I get a majority... =P-

*Sees nothing about 100% completion*

Every other point you made has been refuted.

[Seph]

This topic deals with completing the game 100%. I'm not talking about during the actual game. If you're trying to beat the game 100% as the topic creator is, then Colm can more than likely reach 20/20. 20/20 Colm has 19.8 strength, so let's round that down to 19. He's doing 32 damage to that Wight without pulling a critical (which is unlikely), and he's killing it with a single critical. So, Silencer? Useless.

What the fuck is this about? Is this just a last resort? This is a mere debate about Assassin vs Rogue Colm in terms of efficiency on hard mode. I don't think anyone debated with you with the intention of 100% completion, and the first post of this topic doesn't suggest that, either.

I expected more from you.

And he's still not fighting because he has to run to chests, and you're wasting money on items. Doesn't sound too good to me.

So enemies aren't coming to him while he's running to the chests.. that's some great logic, pal.

Once again, this topic deals with Assassin vs. Rogue WHEN TRYING TO COMPLETE THE GAME 100%.

Seriously. Utter bullshit.

So, you're promoting him to a more combat-based unit so he can pick locks. Yeah, that makes total sense.

No, that's not the only thing he's going to do. It's only useful for like.. A Last Hope. I don't remember anything else to be lockpicked after he promotes, so yeah.

If Rennac's there, why use Colm at all? There're MUCH better combat units.

So you can complete a chapter faster with extra thief utility?

Edited February 15, 2009 by Shanan

[_____]

What the fuck is this about? Is this just a last resort? This is a mere debate about Assassin vs Rogue Colm in terms of efficiency on hard mode. I don't think anyone debated with you with the intention of 100% completion, and the first post of this topic doesn't suggest that, either.

I expected more from you.

Hey guys! Let's look down 3 posts before spouting utter shit!

mmm.. well, this playthrough, I'm going to try to complete the Ruins and Tower to unlock 100%.

I'm not arguing Assassin vs. Rogue Colm in terms of efficiency on Hard Mode during the main game.

Edited February 15, 2009 by Shanam

[Roxas]

Remember: I'm going for Valini and Ruins 100% DONE.

I never said anything about maxing out everybody's stats... o_O

I just want to Valini and Ruins 100%, with all secrets unlocked...

[Seph]

*

mmm.. well, this playthrough, I'm going to try to complete the Ruins and Tower to unlock 100%.

And 100% means capping everyone's stats.. why?

Assassin Colm is obviously better for this thanks to Silencer.

Edited February 15, 2009 by Shanan

[_____]

My mistake, then. Normally when someone says completing the game 100%, they mean maxing out stats and levels as well.

No point in continuing the debate, then.

[Florete]

Hey guys! Let's look down 3 posts before spouting utter shit!

It's a good thing our arguments work for that anyway, huh? Postgame, 2 Rogues is completely unnecessary. There's virtually nothing to steal, if anything at all, and not very many chests even.

EDIT: Hm...yeah.

Edited February 15, 2009 by Red Fox of Fire

[Seph]

My mistake, then. Normally when someone says completing the game 100%, they mean maxing out stats and levels as well.

No point in continuing the debate, then.

No, I think you just used it as an excuse to stop debating, but I'm blunt in general.

So, still laughing at people who say Assassin > Rogue, then?

[_____]

No, I think you just used it as an excuse to stop debating, but I'm blunt in general.

So, still laughing at people who say Assassin > Rogue, then?

I had mentioned quite a few times throughout the thread something about completing the game 100%. But whatever. You think what you want. I'm not great at debates, anyway.

Does it matter?

[Roxas]

..so.. is it over?

Assassin 14

Rogue 12

(and a bunch of other people who probably didn't vote, but I'm guessing they just followed with the flow...?)

..but now I'm hooked on FE6 and can't stop. I just recruited Karel! NUUUU :(

[Roxas]

oh crap. It's tied again. -_-

(did that just count as a double post?) oops

Edited February 15, 2009 by Ryuzaki

[Seph]

Strange how Rogue is winning after that huge debate.