Dark Mages?

[thanibomb]

Aside from Etzel, are Dark Mages and Sorcerers used much at all in this game? Who works as the best Dark Mage reclass-er?

[Lord Raven]

Caesar and/or Cord work as decent Dark Mages, but you don't even need them in this game so it's kind of a useless class. I guess you can double up promoted people on path 2 as healing Sorcerers (Lorenz) but that's more or less it.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

The class is nice for story mode but the people that can become a dark mage just suck at it. Draug makes a good DM.

[grandjackal]

Well, there's Draug and Ceasar. Draug because later he's just doesn't have hte offense for an armor knight and has bad defense as everything else anyways. Ceasar because...if you find it too dangerous to use him normally due to weak start, he can just hang back, blast things with magic and still do pretty well.

[thanibomb]

I never would have thought of using those characters as Dark Mages. Thanks.

Its sad really... Dark Mages are probably the least favored class in Fire Emblem history after the Archer.

[Florete]

Its sad really... Dark Mages are probably the least favored class in Fire Emblem history after the Archer.

I don't know why you'd say that. There are plenty of good archers in the series, like Jamka, Briggid, and FE10 Shinon, but there are no dark mages that really stand out. The best I can think of is likely Ray and even he is average at best.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

The classes are generally disliked but the Archer class at least has some good characters. Archers seriously need their range to be 2-3 standard or something to stop them from being a terrible class.

Edited March 4, 2009 by Levin

[Lord Raven]

I don't know why you'd say that. There are plenty of good archers in the series, like Jamka, Briggid, and FE10 Shinon, but there are no dark mages that really stand out. The best I can think of is likely Ray and even he is average at best.

Pelleas isn't TOO bad for what he is.

[Florete]

Pelleas isn't TOO bad for what he is.

What do you mean by "for what he is?" He's a pretty terrible character in his own game. The only good thing about him is that he doesn't compete for weapons, but his weapons suck anyway.

Speaking of dark mages, are there even any characters in this game that start as dark mages? I don't remember.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

What do you mean by "for what he is?" He's a pretty terrible character in his own game. The only good thing about him is that he doesn't compete for weapons, but his weapons suck anyway.

Speaking of dark mages, are there even any characters in this game that start as dark mages? I don't remember.

None as Dark Mages but there's 1 natural dark sorcerer (Etzel).

[Nestling]

Canas and Etzel are the only good dark mages.

It's all about the monocole.

[Rodykitty]

Speaking of dark mages, are there even any characters in this game that start as dark mages? I don't remember.

Etzel and Gharnef.

Dark mages used to be enemy only, as such a lot of their magic was unique in that they were meant to disrupt the players, such as reducing their HP to 1 or long range spells, or of course, Maph or Lopt. If you want to see characters that stand out as Dark Mages, look at enemies rather than characters.

[Nestling]

Etzel and Gharnef.

Dark mages used to be enemy only, as such a lot of their magic was unique in that they were meant to disrupt the players, such as reducing their HP to 1 or long range spells, or of course, Maph or Lopt. If you want to see characters that stand out as Dark Mages, look at enemies rather than characters.

With this logic, I should look more at epic enemy brigands rather than Gonzales.

[Rodykitty]

If Canas isn't considered someone that stands out, then there aren't any good examples of Dark Mages that do.

Dark Mages are mostly an enemy only thing, and usually lives in the shadow of standard Mages on the player's side.

[Lord Raven]

What do you mean by "for what he is?" He's a pretty terrible character in his own game. The only good thing about him is that he doesn't compete for weapons, but his weapons suck anyway.

In Normal mode he isn't "terrible" by any means... he doesn't get doubled and can evade swordmasters (in the forest) who have like 45% displayed hit on him. Everything else will be even lower. And his hit back is 60-70%, which isn't too bad by any means. Not entirely reliable, but not bad.

In Hard Swordmasters are the only things doubling him, but he can do ~15-20 damage considering he has at least 30 base attack of his own, which isn't bad. It's nice chip damage, about 33%. And there's also Thunder magic for the Wyverns that exist in that chapter, even if they are few and far between; hell Thunder magic for the Dragons too who take little damage from chars not named Tibarn otherwise. He doesn't OHKO, but the damage he does is plenty. Compare it to like Ilyana, Tormod... etc. Everyone not named Callil or Soren (well, debatably Soren) and you've definitely got a winner. He can probably make use of a Master Crown right away (if not then give or take a couple levels) and pretty much beat out/become equal to Bastian.

He isn't too bad, really.

Salem of FE5 is actually decent if you give him Wind. That's more or less it though, considering how Dark Magic weighs you down significantly.

Finally Canas sucks.

Edited March 4, 2009 by Nathan Graves

[thanibomb]

I don't know why you'd say that. There are plenty of good archers in the series, like Jamka, Briggid, and FE10 Shinon, but there are no dark mages that really stand out. The best I can think of is likely Ray and even he is average at best.

Yeah, but despite being a class that existed for the entirety of the FE series, there are only a handful of good archers, and 3 of them come from Seisen (you forgot Faval D: ). And even then, they are outclassed by other combat units and are never "exceptional". Mages have tons of exceptional units (Merric, Soren, Sety, Levin, etc.) that are staples in their respected games. Sword Fighters (Oguma, Ayra, Shanan, Guy, etc.), Fliers (Sheeda, Catria, Miledy, Haar, etc.), and Axe Fighters (Othlin, Havlan, Boyd, etc.) are all original classes that get good amounts of love in different games. Maybe its just because I'm a bow lover, but I've always seen archers as the underdog of all the classes.

Dark Mages are a relatively new class since they are usually all enemies anyway. Salem wasn't ever used for his Dark Magic capability but his high staff level instead and in the GBA games the Dark Mages are average at best. I haven't played Radiant Dawn, but in PoR there wasn't even Dark Magic to choose from. They are underrated, but archers deserve a boost more than they do.

[grandjackal]

FE1 Gordin could promote to badass level immediately and Kashim was pretty cool in his own respects, FE2 might be seperate but had archers broken to hell and back, FE3 the revenge of Kashim, FE4 had Midir with his brave bow of doom, sir Jamka of infinite potshots with killer bow and lol Ichival Bridget and Faval. FE5 is where archers really started to suck. FE6 gave you miserable excuses for archers, FE7 had archers starting too weak (2 sucked anyways, while one was ok), FE8....FE9 however had Astrid who had canto, but promoted to get axes anyways. Archers problems were mainly that they were made to suck later. FE10 Shinon proves that an archer can be good (he even has little use of crossbows for slayer effect and has 2-3 range for like a bit rather than most of the his appearance. The double bow however was definitely a boost outside the class). He rocked and he was standard archer for most of the game till he promotes.

Archers are great if they kill whatever they target (like Midir ((though his stats suck normally)), Jamka and Bridget/Faval). The problem is the characters themselves suck who just happened to be archers. Dark mages on teh other hand just get no love. People can't even name a good one. Maybe in the next one they'll give us a dark mage who doesn't suck out loud.

[thanibomb]

FE1 Gordin could promote to badass level immediately and Kashim was pretty cool in his own respects, FE2 might be seperate but had archers broken to hell and back, FE3 the revenge of Kashim, FE4 had Midir with his brave bow of doom, sir Jamka of infinite potshots with killer bow and lol Ichival Bridget and Faval. FE5 is where archers really started to suck. FE6 gave you miserable excuses for archers, FE7 had archers starting too weak (2 sucked anyways, while one was ok), FE8....FE9 however had Astrid who had canto, but promoted to get axes anyways. Archers problems were mainly that they were made to suck later. FE10 Shinon proves that an archer can be good (he even has little use of crossbows for slayer effect and has 2-3 range for like a bit rather than most of the his appearance. The double bow however was definitely a boost outside the class). He rocked and he was standard archer for most of the game till he promotes.

Archers are great if they kill whatever they target (like Midir ((though his stats suck normally)), Jamka and Bridget/Faval). The problem is the characters themselves suck who just happened to be archers. Dark mages on teh other hand just get no love. People can't even name a good one. Maybe in the next one they'll give us a dark mage who doesn't suck out loud.

They're good but still outclassed. No one would pick Gordon over Catria for example. And Kashim isn't an archer.

I don't think the characters themselves suck, but the class they are stuck with. Like someone stated above, archers should at least get a +1 range to make up for their inability to attack during the enemy phase.

FE2, 4, and DS are the only games that give archers a little credit, yet they are still behind compared to other combat units. Archers are basically handicapped mages that aim for defense instead of resistance and can't counterattack. :"[

[grandjackal]

They're good but still outclassed. No one would pick Gordon over Catria for example. And Kashim isn't an archer.

I don't think the characters themselves suck, but the class they are stuck with. Like someone stated above, archers should at least get a +1 range to make up for their inability to attack during the enemy phase.

FE2, 4, and DS are the only games that give archers a little credit, yet they are still behind compared to other combat units. Archers are basically handicapped mages that aim for defense instead of resistance and can't counterattack. :"[

Kashim's only weapon option is a bow, he's an archer.

The characters themselves suck. Tanya, Ronan, Selphina and Robert(he's great if trained, but he's a PAIN to train) of FE5, ALL archers in FE6, 7 and 8, FE9 had only one good archer and it was just because she leveled fast and gets axes at promotion. FE10, Shinon avenged the name of archer with hell's fury behind him however.

Dark mage being able to counter at close range does not make up for how much dark magic and their general suck characters suck. Ray is the best and he really does end up only average at best.

[Tamara]

FE2, 4, and DS are the only games that give archers a little credit, yet they are still behind compared to other combat units. Archers are basically handicapped mages that aim for defense instead of resistance and can't counterattack. :"[

Archers get lots of love on WiFi. Sniper and Horseman are considered some of the best units. Ballisticians rank high as well.

[Mekkah]

Dark mages on teh other hand just get no love. People can't even name a good one. Maybe in the next one they'll give us a dark mage who doesn't suck out loud.

FE7 Canas doesn't suck, he's bleh. Same for FE6 Ray to a bigger extent, since his issues are more pressing. FE5 Salem is usually considered quite good, if only because FE5 emphasizes "capped magic + staves = you're good".

[Taho]

As far as Archers are concerned, Rolf really rocked if you were brave enough to raise him. He doubles anyone and kills anything, and in FE9 and 10 alike. Probably my best unit, he's maxed strength and speed in all my games, and with the double bow in FE10, he's just a treat. Astrid was always far behind. Shinon is good in FE10 (although he sucks in FE9, as all pre-promoted units do), as good as Rolf, or so I hear.

For Dark mages, the only one I've been able to play is Pelleas in FE10 on my second walkthrough. I got him to T3, but didn't use him further, he just couldn't compare with Soren.

In FE11, I couldn't find 1 single character that I would turn to a Dark Mage... A pity cause I do think that this class can be quite fun.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

As far as Archers are concerned, Rolf really rocked if you were brave enough to raise him. He doubles anyone and kills anything, and in FE9 and 10 alike. Probably my best unit, he's maxed strength and speed in all my games, and with the double bow in FE10, he's just a treat. Astrid was always far behind. Shinon is good in FE10 (although he sucks in FE9, as all pre-promoted units do), as good as Rolf, or so I hear.

For Dark mages, the only one I've been able to play is Pelleas in FE10 on my second walkthrough. I got him to T3, but didn't use him further, he just couldn't compare with Soren.

In FE11, I couldn't find 1 single character that I would turn to a Dark Mage... A pity cause I do think that this class can be quite fun.

Any1 that started out as an Armor Knight, Fighter, Mercenary, Hunter and Pirate could turn into a Dark Mage.

[Taho]

Any1 that started out as an Armor Knight, Fighter, Mercenary, Hunter and Pirate could turn into a Dark Mage.

I said would, not could, which means I did not find one worth turning into a dark mage :P

[canas is back]

I said would, not could, which means I did not find one worth turning into a dark mage :P

other than possibly wolf or sedgar, but they are better off as something else.