Loki Laufeyson Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 I've never even seen people call you that~! Maybe I'm not paying enough attention Twas jape for mine name be....well... yeah. But.... you're Loki. It's like... in your genes or something to be a troublemaker. I may shit disturb here and there, but in truth, i actually do believe in honor. Sometimes. :B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 some are just a pain in the ass, like mm Aww man, i love me some MM. Its so gr9 with its creepy undertones and character interaction. Great Bay Temple is certainly a giant pain in the fanny however. Fuuuuu that level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ϲharlie Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 All I can really say is that while some of the points the person in that thread makes regarding gender are perfectly fine, I think the quote that Balcerzak brought up reveals him for the confused pseudo-intellectual he really is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rei Rei Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Damn. I got the Iron Golem soul in my second try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pull My Devil Trigger Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Great Bay Temple gains some points because I have to play Bossa Nova in a fishbone guitar and ride an island-turtle to get to it :v Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Great Bay Temple gains some points because I have to play Bossa Nova in a fishbone guitar and ride an island-turtle to get to it :v BLAME IT ON THE BOSSA NOVA! *jives* I did love me that turtle. I wish he had a name. Instead, i just call him Morla after the mad ancient turtle in The NeverEnding Story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icon of Sin Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 (edited) the only fun part in that game was stone tower temple, which is amazing by dungeon standards dancing zombies were pretty good too i guess everything else wasn't worth the frustration Edited January 27, 2014 by Woodshooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rei Rei Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Bossa Nova is the pansiest music style ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 (edited) the only fun part in that game was stone tower temple, which is amazing by dungeon standards dancing zombies were pretty good too i guess everything else wasn't worth the frustration I lurves the Stone Tower Temple. It is the most gr9 level ever crafted in the Zelda series. Getting the stray fairies is a right fucking pain though and not worth it. Bossa Nova is the pansiest music style ever. GENDERED INSULT! ANTI-FEMINIST!! Sorry, couldnt resist. Calypso music is really amazing though. AND MANLY AS FUCK! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpNk860pTO4 YES! /m. bison Edited January 27, 2014 by Loki Laufeyson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makaze Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 :P 1. No. But nor do i seek to find sexism where it doesnt truly lie. 2. No. But nor do i find racism in every little thing. I do not believe in thinking in extremes. I do not believe that just because there is a depiction of someone dark or light skinned, means that it must be racist. Especially in the Zelda context. I do not understand how one who thinks the OP of the thread i posted, is absolutely ridiculous and is also somehow sexist and racist. I actually have a vagina attached to me and identify as female (sometimes) and am rather gender fluid. I do not find Zelda in OoT at all sexist. In fact, as far as traditional princesses go, her portrayal in that game is rather positive. (Her being Sheik and kicking a lot of ass) I do hear the Wind Waker argument because there is one part where Zelda's role gets diminished to nigh absurdity until the end of the game. I also do not see the Gerudo as racist inherently because they are actually incredibly interesting. (Only Ganondorf and Twinrova are really the bad guys of that lot) And i cannot possibly fathom how Dark Link is black face. Do not assume so much. Far extremist thinking often causes more harm than good. You seem reasonable (though I cannot understand the first sentence of that last paragraph). I'm having trouble understanding why you seem so derisive towards the OP. They were completely off base about Dark Link, but they hit the mark on a few things. There were several instances where it was explained how Sheik and Tetra's portrayals were sexist in all of the games they were portrayed in. You already get Tetra's, so I'll move on. Both Zelda and Sheik consistently fail to defeat any kind of enemy without help. Sheik's gender is portrayed as male and this makes the reveal that she is Zelda even stronger. While Sheik was dependent on her own, the moment she becomes a Princess again she becomes weak and frail. There seems to be a strong, consistent theme that femininity means frailty and dependence on male counterparts. The fact that the Gerudo are all female except for one male is inexplicable and raises my eyebrows by itself. Why are there no males? This becomes even more pronounced by the fact that they view the only male of their race, Ganandorf, as a righteous leader despite his both looking differently and having different behaviors from them. The female majority inexplicably chose a leader who represented them only in name. This leader happened to be a man. This would never happen in a real society and is definite cause for questions of sexism; if not active sexism, then passive. It seems the designers simply assumed they needed a male to lead the culture. There is no rational explanation for this occurrence. It is also a good point that Link could be given the option of being a girl with little to no change to the story in all but perhaps one game. The racist undertones are quite strong, but I do not think they are as offensive because Japan does not have a history with it like the West does. Ignorance is different from entrenched prejudice. Despite that, it would be offensive if you were from the Middle East and played Zelda, seeing yourself portrayed as a race and culture of disgusting foreign thieves. All of these good points were brought up by people other than the OP, which is why I say that they asked the right questions but were on the wrong track. There were problems to be found, but they weren't the ones the OP was finding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interest Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 I think I just crossed some sort of line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pull My Devil Trigger Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 I think I just crossed some sort of line.why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rei Rei Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 GENDERED INSULT! ANTI-FEMINIST!! Sorry, couldnt resist. Calypso music is really amazing though. AND MANLY AS FUCK! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpNk860pTO4 YES! /m. bison Wai what Calypso waht? Bossa Nova, at least AFAIK is some very fruity Garota de Ipanema type of music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 I'm having trouble understanding why you seem so derisive towards the OP. Because its extremist postering for most part. We've had a lot better discussions on that forum about Zelda games and sexism. Just because i am moderate, doesnt mean i must agree with someone making claims that something is not PC. Both Zelda and Sheik consistently fail to defeat any kind of enemy without help. Sheik's gender is portrayed as male and this makes the reveal that she is Zelda even stronger. While Sheik was dependent on her own, the moment she becomes a Princess again she becomes weak and frail. There seems to be a strong, consistent theme that femininity means frailty and dependence on male counterparts. I strongly disagree with this. Vehemently. Why? Because Sheik may look male but isnt. Its Zelda the whole time. She hides her gender along with her identity because of Ganondorf. But take a good look at where Sheik pops up and does. Sheik rescues Ruto from the ice in Zora's Domain. Sheik braves a volcano to deliver a message. Sheik manages to find her way to the Desert Colossus. Sheik tries to battle Bongo Bongo (and also note, Link gets his ass kicked during that cutscene too.) Im not seeing where Sheik constantly fails. When the reveal happens, Zelda is not weak and frail. She gets freaking ambushed. In fact, shes kidnapped for maybe five minutes tops in terms of the plot flow. After shes out of that crystal, she consistently aids Link in getting the hell out of that Tower. Plus that massive hadouken she blasts in Ganon's general direction. How is this weak and frail? Why must a female be an amazon? People do need to understand that constantly demanding Action Girls is sexist in and of itself. Without Zelda's help, Link is boned. Seriously boned. Chew on that for a while. Wai what Calypso waht? Calypso is awesome. I had to post about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makaze Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 (edited) Because its extremist postering for most part. We've had a lot better discussions on that forum about Zelda games and sexism. Just because i am moderate, doesnt mean i must agree with someone making claims that something is not PC. No disagreement. I strongly disagree with this. Vehemently. Why? Because Sheik may look male but isnt. Its Zelda the whole time. She hides her gender along with her identity because of Ganondorf. But take a good look at where Sheik pops up and does. Sheik rescues Ruto from the ice in Zora's Domain. Sheik braves a volcano to deliver a message. Sheik manages to find her way to the Desert Colossus. Sheik tries to battle Bongo Bongo (and also note, Link gets his ass kicked during that cutscene too.) Im not seeing where Sheik constantly fails. When the reveal happens, Zelda is not weak and frail. She gets freaking ambushed. In fact, shes kidnapped for maybe five minutes tops in terms of the plot flow. After shes out of that crystal, she consistently aids Link in getting the hell out of that Tower. Plus that massive hadouken she blasts in Ganon's general direction. How is this weak and frail? Why must a female be an amazon? People do need to understand that constantly demanding Action Girls is sexist in and of itself. Without Zelda's help, Link is boned. Seriously boned. Chew on that for a while. I'm not seeing where she succeeds. There is a factor someone else brought up that is better defense than yours: Link saves the day because he is the protagonist. Of course the protagonist will beat the boss. The problem is that he disproportionately saves damsels in distress. It's a common trope that is even more common in Zelda. It happens multiple times in most of the games. While Zelda and Sheik are powerful enough to easily out-strip Link in any fight, they do not. This applies to Sheik to a lesser extent, but again, Sheik is decidedly masculine during these parts of the game. It is this masculinity that appears to give her strength, not just physically but of character. As soon as she is turns into Zelda she becomes a symbol of quiet feminine dignity. Zelda is constantly treated as a prize to be fought over. While you could argue that defeating Ganon is the goal of the game, Link would not set out if not to save Zelda, who can actually save herself. Many other female characters fall to the same flaw. They have powerful abilities but for some reason still need saving. On their own, this would not be a problem. Were there more males in similar positions, this would not be a problem. But there are not. This type of 'holding back when playing a girl' stereotype harkens back to distinct Feudal-era Japanese standards that live on in Japan's culture today. If you went on a train ride in Japan today and did not take one of the women only cars, you would be expected to make no fuss if or when someone began feeling you up. Both the other women in the car and the men would take more issue with you making a fuss than that you were being molested. The reason? Calling out is a masculine thing to do. No, this is not an exaggeration. This has happened to people I know. Sexism in Japanese media is easy to see as harmless when you have people defending womens' honor in Western cultures, but in reality, the sexism is far more subtle and pervasive than in most Western countries. Would it be worth posting these comments on that site? Edited January 27, 2014 by Makaze Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquakat Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 *watches the people* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interest Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 why? Refer to sig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rei Rei Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 For each Zelda, there is a Samus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ϲharlie Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Other M ruined Samus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rei Rei Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Other M ruined Samus. Screw that game. The metroid series is perfect without it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 (edited) Would it be worth posting these comments on that site? No. Its been done to death before. (and people have made better defenses than yours. See i can do it too! ) I am sick of this discussion and it is ending now. Seriously. We all know the Japanese are sexist jerks. Lets just fucking leave it at that before someone gets...offended. I never played Other M and im scared to. Edited January 27, 2014 by Loki Laufeyson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interest Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Other M ruined Samus. WHY! WHYYYYYYYYY! I just forgot about that ;(. "The baby..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balcerzak Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Other M wasn't that bad. That Ridley cutscene was p unforgivable though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makaze Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 That's too bad. I would have liked to hear those better defenses. And after you posted popcorn, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 (edited) Do you not see the Hypno Daenerys? See it. Fear it. But really, you can search that forum. There were a couple of threads covering that very issue (sexism). The one i posted is actually not focused on that. Edited January 27, 2014 by Loki Laufeyson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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