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so what

and another excuse was born

it's what i do

you know nothing, fruit ninja

manly enough to admit your lack of manliness, at least

So Shirley would handle things in a more mature and responsible manner!

As soon as I'm done with RF4.

Resident grouch!

S-so mean. ;~;

Hey! I admit that too!

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So Shirley would handle things in a more mature and responsible manner!

As soon as I'm done with RF4.

Resident grouch!

S-so mean. ;~;

Hey! I admit that too!

we aren't talking about maturity and responsibility, we're talking about manliness

you've already finished it

mumu beats me in that regard though

no yamenaidesenpai please

do you now

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Neal, Freohr said to "quit associating maturity with masculinity because that sounds sooooo sexist ;u;"

two exceptions already

how terrible

only two

w-what

the penguin plushie looks stylish with his glasses.

Edited by Magnolia
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we aren't talking about maturity and responsibility, we're talking about manliness

you've already finished it

mumu beats me in that regard though

no yamenaidesenpai please

do you now

But what is manliness if not responsibility? Having a backbone? In which case, I'm not very manly at all.

That was arc 1. Of three arcs.

Only when the fruit is mentioned!

やめないで先輩

Yes, because even my mother says that I'm the least masculine of my siblings. And I agree.

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Neal, Freohr said to "quit associating maturity with masculinity because that sounds sooooo sexist ;u;"

It's a bit sexist, but that's natural, given that the society in which we live is built on the remains of patriarchal society. I don't mean to sound sexist, but I could honestly defend such a mentality. :<

Edited by Fruity Insanity
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Neal, Freohr said to "quit associating maturity with masculinity because that sounds sooooo sexist ;u;"

only two

w-what

the penguin plushie looks stylish with his glasses.

listen to flareohr

it's okay shirley

baaaad

But what is manliness if not responsibility? Having a backbone? In which case, I'm not very manly at all.

That was arc 1. Of three arcs.

Only when the fruit is mentioned!

やめないで先輩

Yes, because even my mother says that I'm the least masculine of my siblings. And I agree.

truly lux's kid x4

so that's why you're so insecure

It's a bit sexist, but that's natural, given that the society in which we live is built on the remains of patriarchal society. I don't mean to sound sexist, but I could honestly defend such a mentality. :<

it isn't natural

it's a choice

Edited by TheEnd
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But what is manliness if not responsibility? Having a backbone? In which case, I'm not very manly at all.

Wouldn't that just be plain old being brave and responsible? It has little to do with masculinity or femininity, since you can have combinations of the 4 traits.

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Fixed. It was meant for Neal.

I'm confused more by the statement, not who it was directed to.

It's a bit sexist, but that's natural, given that the society in which we live is built on the remains of patriarchal society. I don't mean to sound sexist, but I could honestly defend such a mentality. :<

And... how? Because there are some 'masculine' traits that are DEFINITELY not seen as mature. And the second you declare something 'natural', you state that it is correct.

Edited by Aqua
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listen to flareohr

it's okay shirley

baaaad

indeed

IT IS.

Nononono... but I don't actually have them... Not yet anyway.

I'm confused more by the statement, not who it was directed to.

oh. umm... well it seems that's what Neal is doing.
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indeed

IT IS.

Nononono... but I don't actually have them... Not yet anyway.

"not yet"

baaaaaaaad

oh. umm... well it seems that's what Neal is doing.

being confused is what he does
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listen to flareohr

truly lux's kid x4

so that's why you're so insecure

it isn't natural

it's a choice

I'm not wrong 100% of the time, though!

... ... ... ... ...

Nah, I'm not insecure, nor do I have self-confidence issues. I agree with my mom, though!

Not necessarily.

Wouldn't that just be plain old being brave and responsible? It has little to do with masculinity or femininity, since you can have combinations of the 4 traits.

Dunno. I guess. I'm not too sure about this whole "mascunilinity" and "manliness" stuff myself. :-/

And... how? Because there are some 'masculine' traits that are DEFINITELY not seen as mature. And the second you declare something 'natural', you state that it is correct.

I guess I mean primarily having a backbone.

Back in the days when humans foraged for food, both sexes were on a more or less equal footing. Men hunted. Women foraged.

But when they moved on to a more sedentary lifestyle, things changed. Drastically. Because men were physically stronger, they were the ones to did the building. They did much of the farm work. And things changed such that the male became the head of the family. You can tie the shift to this society to sedentary lifestyles because it happened universally. East Asia. Europe. Middle East. India.

And in the places where sedentary life didn't develop, such as some American Indians, such an extreme difference between sexes didn't develop.

As civilizations developed, so did this system, and the patriarchal ideals became ingrained in much of the world, becoming, indeed, "natural."

The father was the head. That was that. The focus shifted further and further away from women. In fact, it degressed so far such that men were considered "superior" to women. Men were the head. They were responsible for the family. They needed to have the backbone. They needed to act in a more mature manner. It was expected. Women were often associated with helplessness. Even simple things such as fairy tales demonstrate these ideas.

The shift back to a more equal society is a relatively new idea, with many parts of the world still having the patriarchal ideal still deeply ingrained. Most of the world, in fact. (Because, lol, China and India make up, like, half the world population.)

As time passes, I'm sure the world will be more equal. But as of now, patriarchal remnants remain, and are influential over many people's minds even today.

One cannot deny that.

I'm not sure if I explained too clearly. :-/

But yeah, that's it in a nutshell. It's a lot more complicated, but I'm not a history professor, so I don't know too much about this stuff. Just what I picked over world history and etc.

Edited by Fruity Insanity
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oh boy here we go

I'm not wrong 100% of the time, though!

... ... ... ... ...

Nah, I'm not insecure, nor do I have self-confidence issues. I agree with my mom, though!

Not necessarily.

So what? Are you taking pride in that, now?

There seems to be a gap between what you say and what you do, and I'm not sure if you realize it's there

Necessarily.

It might not be a conscious choice. It might be a choice others have made for you. However, it's a choice nonetheless.

Edited by TheEnd
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indeed

IT IS.

Nononono... but I don't actually have them... Not yet anyway.

oh. umm... well it seems that's what Neal is doing.

Ah. Well then.

I'm not wrong 100% of the time, though!

... ... ... ... ...

Nah, I'm not insecure, nor do I have self-confidence issues. I agree with my mom, though!

Not necessarily.

Dunno. I guess. I'm not too sure about this whole "mascunilinity" and "manliness" stuff myself. :-/

I guess I mean primarily having a backbone.

Back in the days when humans foraged for food, both sexes were on a more or less equal footing. Men hunted. Women foraged.

But when they moved on to a more sedentary lifestyle, things changed. Drastically. Because men were physically stronger, they were the ones to did the building. They did much of the farm work. And things changed such that the male became the head of the family. You can tie the shift to this society to sedentary lifestyles because it happened universally. East Asia. Europe. Middle East. India.

And in the places where sedentary life didn't develop, such as some American Indians, such an extreme difference between sexes didn't develop.

As civilizations developed, so did this system, and the patriarchal ideals became ingrained in much of the world, becoming, indeed, "natural."

The father was the head. That was that. The focus shifted further and further away from women. In fact, it degressed so far such that men were considered "superior" to women. Men were the head. They were responsible for the family. They needed to have the backbone. They needed to act in a more mature manner. It was expected. Women were often associated with helplessness. Even simple things such as fairy tales demonstrate these ideas.

The shift back to a more equal society is a relatively new idea, with many parts of the world still having the patriarchal ideal still deeply ingrained. Most of the world, in fact. (Because, lol, China and India make up, like, half the world population.)

As time passes, I'm sure the world will be more equal. But as of now, patriarchal remnants remain, and are influential over many people's minds even today.

One cannot deny that.

I'm not sure if I explained too clearly. :-/

But yeah, that's it in a nutshell. It's a lot more complicated, but I'm not a history professor, so I don't know too much about this stuff. Just what I picked over world history and etc.

I didn't need the history lesson, considering I'm actually studying it right now. I would like to point out, though, that 'having a backbone' doesn't equal masculinity. There are MANY cultures where the woman was expected to have one as well, yes, even in the past where women were considered subservient.

I won't deny influence, though. I'll deny you have to consider it as natural, or defend such values. In fact, I would argue that since our ancestors supported equality, this patriarchal thing is actually UN-natural, and something our culture forced upon us and, it is only in the modern day that we are returning to the natural values. Especially considering that we were more or less forced into agriculture and sedentary lifestyles in the first place.

Narcissistic males you find in frat houses are foolishly perceived as "masculine" and yet they're among the most immature bastards you'll know. That is all.

This. So much this.

Edited by Aqua
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oh boy here we go

So what? Are you taking pride in that, now?

There seems to be a gap between what you say and what you do, and I'm not sure if you realize it's there

Necessarily.

It might not be a conscious choice. It might be a choice others have made for you. However, it's a choice nonetheless.

O-okay. I'll stop.

N-no. ;n;

Oh, I'm realize all right. All too much... ... ...

But if it's not conscious choice, can it truly be considered a choice?

I didn't need the history lesson, considering I'm actually studying it right now. I would like to point out, though, that 'having a backbone' doesn't equal masculinity. There are MANY cultures where the woman was expected to have one as well, yes, even in the past where women were considered subservient.

I won't deny influence, though. I'll deny you have to consider it as natural, or defend such values. In fact, I would argue that since our ancestors supported equality, this patriarchal thing is actually UN-natural, and something our culture forced upon us and, it is only in the modern day that we are returning to the natural values. Especially considering that we were more or less forced into agriculture and sedentary lifestyles in the first place.

Eh. I don't know. I haven't put too much thought into these kind of stuff.

I guess it depends on what the definition of "natural" hinges on, maybe?

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I guess it depends on what the definition of "natural" hinges on, maybe?

I'd guess it's more of the subjective and circumstantial nature of things. Since it's a change, it's of course unnatural to what came before it, and will most certainly be to what will come after it, which in itself will be unnatural to the middle stage. For the better or the worse. Unless you think that if the change has a coherent progression, then you could say it's a natural change. Unless you think that too is subjective.

Edited by Acacia Sgt
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what is this

are you being sarcastic or something of me.

I skimmed over the posts and skipped the ones that weren't by Ein.

If I were being sarcastic it would had been obvious...

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