My H5 playlog

[dondon151]

Excuse me for not being as good a player as you?

So how accurate of a guideline are you claiming to be if you're wasting time during chapters?

I also want to clarify that I dunno about Armorslayer as Julian's the only guy on my team besides Marth who can use it,

Ogma and Nabarl start with C swords. So does Athena if she stays in myrmidon.

but I certainly have had no problems ORKOing armors with hammers and cavs just needed to be tickled before Ridersbane would do them in: Dropping a load of cash when I'm already in a bit of financial worry just to One-shot seemed to be a waste on either end.

ORKO with Hammer is not good enough; dropping like 3 MT on a Hammer resolves OHKOs which saves quite a bit of healing as well as freeing up units for player phase. It's the same with +3/4 MT Ridersbane; you can kill one enemy on enemy phase and then trade it around on player phase for ORKOs without being countered.

Let's not forget forging Thunderbolt and Arrowspate as well, though Arrowspate will probably never be OHKOing enemy DKs. And we can forge Shiida's Wing Spear to OHKO cavs and Marth's Rapier to ORKO armors.

Edited August 15, 2009 by dondon151

[Dat Nick]

So how accurate of a guideline are you claiming to be if you're wasting time during chapters?

With the exception of the Jake/Jeorge blunders, I never wasted more than, say, five turns. Maybe more on a few chapters due to the AI not doing what I thought it would do;There's been several instances of that.

Ogma and Nabarl start with C swords. So does Athena if she stays in myrmidon.

And all three of them were dead.

ORKO with Hammer is not good enough; dropping like 3 MT on a Hammer resolves OHKOs which saves quite a bit of healing as well as freeing up units for player phase.

I usually wind up having to chuck away at armors with 2-range weapons more often either way since I usually have Cord tied up.

Furthermore, as I've said before, money issues. +3 MT on a hammer costs 3300. Not something I wanna pay for when I'm low on dough.

It's the same with +3/4 MT Ridersbane; you can kill one enemy on enemy phase and then trade it around on player phase for ORKOs without being countered.

Like I do already with chip damage. I was only 1 atk short of OHKOing most mounts in C10, IF not OHKOing, so even someone cheap like Gordin would do just fine for that.

C14: Skipping right to the main problem of this chapter, which would be the reinforcements, one thing to note is that they aren't as stupid as C12: You can kill one of the pegs while staying out of the second wave's attack range, but the other peg is smack dab in the middle of their range, whether you attack with 2 range or no. I didn't have much of a choice but to make Zag kill the second peg after someone else killed the first, which is why he levelled up a good deal in this chapter, as then the other set of pegs would suicide on him.

16 Marth: 33 HP, 14 str, 18 AS, 13 str

17 cavs: Still the same

18 Cord: 35 HP, 17 str, 17 AS, 7 def

10 Jake: 23 HP, 12 str, +9 Hit modifier, 16 def

13 Zagaro: 46 HP, 18 str, 23 AS, 18 def

4 Catria: wow 1 spd lvl up

10 Dolph: 26 HP, 10 str, 14 AS, 8 def

3 Merric: 41 HP, 10 mag, 19 AS, 7 def

14 Julian: Same

...Weren't Jake's Lena/Minerva supports supposed to start up this chapter? They didn't. Weird.

Turncount: 28. Marth killed the boss, so I was forced to wait an extra turn, and the longbow archers could have been dealt with better, but eh, it's alright.

Edited August 15, 2009 by Miyamoto Powers

[Mekkah]

Oh god this chapter sucks. I hate it badly. I don't see how it could be done without generic walls/Jeorge [Minerva was going to replace him anyway] Someone was doing a 100% Survival run? I salute you. Oh yeah: Don't try to hold off the reinforcements from INSIDE the fort. Do it from the OUTSIDE. That's really the key to this chapter. Everything went way smoother as soon as ThunderMan told me that.

That's weird, because it seems much harder if you stay outside (like all those enemies have high move). I just put everyone and their mom inside, and put Zagaro or Wolf at the entrance.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

If you go inside, there's a bit of terrain that will slow your movement and allow the reinforcements to catch up to you. I've found that even General Sedgar can have trouble guarding here so that leaves either...

Rushing to the boss while staying outside.

Killing the reinforcements while outside.

If you stay inside, your units' movements will be less flexible and the best way to kill those reinforcements is to gang up on them.

Might be possible to handle it while inside but I find that if you fight the reinforcements while outside, it's easier.

Edited August 15, 2009 by Sirius

[Don Draper]

...Weren't Jake's Lena/Minerva supports supposed to start up this chapter? They didn't. Weird.

Were Minerva and Lena deployed in every chapter that Jake was deployed?

[Dat Nick]

I was lacking a tank in C10, likely the issue.

As for the Jake support thing, I did my math wrong earlier and it actually starts at C15, my bad.

[Colonel M]

Baww I wanted to do one just to show how much of a fool I am.

Nice job with C4 though. I lost a lot of people though (I had Marf, Oguma, Barst, Abel, Lena, Julian, and Mage!Shiida left) and I'm ditching Oguma next chapter. Took me 23-24 turns to beat it but then again if Jeigan was alive I would've gained a few more turns.

Like to see how Julian turns out though. Hero!Zag is a good idea so I might use him and still debating on General!Wolf. Castor might've been epic to have (Hunter-> General with the C10 Master Seal might've helped him a lot) but killed him off in C3.

Edited August 15, 2009 by Colonel M

[dondon151]

With the exception of the Jake/Jeorge blunders, I never wasted more than, say, five turns. Maybe more on a few chapters due to the AI not doing what I thought it would do;There's been several instances of that.

I got 17 turns on chapter 14 and got all of the treasure as well as the shopping. What do you attribute your 11 extra turns to?

And all three of them were dead.

Well, not every player has all three of them dead, and as all of them are upper mid material, at least one of them is likely to be used.

I usually wind up having to chuck away at armors with 2-range weapons more often either way since I usually have Cord tied up.

Right, and I have Draug, Barst, Bord, or anyone else with C rank axes totally smite armors in one shot.

Furthermore, as I've said before, money issues. +3 MT on a hammer costs 3300. Not something I wanna pay for when I'm low on dough.

The reason you'd be low on dough in the first place is because you're forging the MT onto effective weapons, though the game throws enough cash at you to forge ~3-4 MT on Rapier, Hammer, Ridersbane, Wing Spear, Armorslayer, and Thunderbolt within the first 14 chapters or so, which is basically all you need (this is what I have forged at least, and I might be forgetting something). What else will you spend your cash on? You're certainly not going to spend the same amount of money forging a non-effective weapon with lower returns.

Like I do already with chip damage. I was only 1 atk short of OHKOing most mounts in C10, IF not OHKOing, so even someone cheap like Gordin would do just fine for that.

Oh really? You mean you had lance-wielding units with 16 str by chapter 10 (32 damage vs 33 HP/8 def cav with 24 eff MT)? A +3 MT forge lets any failure with C rank lances comfortably OHKO.

That's weird, because it seems much harder if you stay outside (like all those enemies have high move). I just put everyone and their mom inside, and put Zagaro or Wolf at the entrance.

And here's where the forged Ridersbane, Rapier, and Wing Spear come in. 6 mounted units reinforce; 1 can be OHKO'd on enemy phase and you can probably OHKO 3-4 of the other 5 on player phase depending on how many lance units are deployed.

[Dat Nick]

I got 17 turns on chapter 14 and got all of the treasure as well as the shopping. What do you attribute your 11 extra turns to?

Half or so of those being to simple mistakes/AI miscalculations that I wasn't going to bend over backwards to fix, the other half you being a better player.

But really, is it absolutley necessary for you to minimize your own insecurity by declaring how much better you are at the game than me? I'm borderline taking offense to it as there's really no other point in you bragging about your lower turncounts here.

Well, not every player has all three of them dead, and as all of them are upper mid material, at least one of them is likely to be used.

...And this is relevant to my playthrough, how?

What else will you spend your cash on?

I could be overbuying...

Oh really? You mean you had lance-wielding units with 16 str by chapter 10 (32 damage vs 33 HP/8 def cav with 24 eff MT)? A +3 MT forge lets any failure with C rank lances comfortably OHKO.

Well, maybe not THAT close...but still, more than close enough where generic hunters would send them into OHK range.

1 can be OHKO'd on enemy phase

If one gets OHKd on enemy phase, have fun getting mobbed by another cav and a horsemen next turn and likely losing a cav.

[dondon151]

Half or so of those being to simple mistakes/AI miscalculations that I wasn't going to bend over backwards to fix, the other half you being a better player.

But really, is it absolutley necessary for you to minimize your own insecurity by declaring how much better you are at the game than me? I'm borderline taking offense to it as there's really no other point in you bragging about your lower turncounts here.

Uh, my point is that taking this long per chapter kind of defeats the purpose of finding "turncount estimates." I don't care about tooting my own horn; there's not much respect to be gained from playing FE fast unless you're Vykan or YayMarsha.

...And this is relevant to my playthrough, how?

It's not, although since you claim your playthrough is relevant to the typical playthrough, my point is still relevant.

I could be overbuying...

Enough to offset the cost of 6 forges at 3-4 thousand G each?

Well, maybe not THAT close...but still, more than close enough where generic hunters would send them into OHK range.

Of course. A clean OHKO is still better, however, and saves heals as well as other unit actions, therefore reducing turn count.

If one gets OHKd on enemy phase, have fun getting mobbed by another cav and a horsemen next turn and likely losing a cav.

You didn't read the second independent clause in that sentence. My preferred strategy is actually OHKOing 5-6 mounts over the course of an enemy phase + player phase, and you have more than enough units to pull it off. Assuming the player is using Cain and Abel, that's 2, plus Jagen, Shiida, Hardin, and then maybe even Roshe, Matthis, or Vyland.

Edited August 16, 2009 by dondon151

[Dat Nick]

Uh, my point is that taking this long per chapter kind of defeats the purpose of finding "turncount estimates."

Don't recall saying this was going to be a perfect playthrough. What do you think the term "estimate" means?

although since you claim your playthrough is relevant to the typical playthrough

...I did?

Enough to offset the cost of 6 forges at 3-4 thousand G each?

Apparently so.

Of course. A clean OHKO is still better, however, and saves heals as well as other unit actions, therefore reducing turn count.

Funding issues, so bowmen had to suffice.

You didn't read the second independent clause in that sentence.

Didn't need to. Letting cavs suicide on you would be an awful idea unless there's only 1 left.

[dondon151]

Don't recall saying this was going to be a perfect playthrough. What do you think the term "estimate" means?

I think "estimate" means "an approximate judgment or calculation." Are you now going to argue semantics over what "approximate" means? If I spent 15 turns on every chapter in FE7, would that still pass as an "estimate" regardless of how far off it is?

...I did?

Well, yeah, considering you are using your turncounts as estimates.

Didn't need to. Letting cavs suicide on you would be an awful idea unless there's only 1 left.

No, you actually needed to, because that doesn't bear any semblance to what I said.

Edited August 16, 2009 by dondon151

[Dat Nick]

I think "estimate" means "an approximate judgment or calculation." Are you now going to argue semantics over what "approximate" means?

Estimations vary in how often they're off.

Well, yeah, considering you are using your turncounts as estimates.

Considering I'm using a good deal of Low Mid tier characters, it's not hard to imagine I'd be having a harder time...

No, you actually needed to, because that doesn't bear any semblance to what I said.

You never specified when this one cav on enemy phase was going to die, so you're the one who needed to elaborate.

[dondon151]

Estimations vary in how often they're off.

Estimations have to be pretty close.

Considering I'm using a good deal of Low Mid tier characters, it's not hard to imagine I'd be having a harder time...

You're also using Sedgar. If you're curious, this playthrough I've been using mid and upper mid tier units only (this was before I went into the tier list topic and said "yo Draug should be higher").

You never specified when this one cav on enemy phase was going to die, so you're the one who needed to elaborate.

Did I have to? I said that 1 cav gets counter killed on enemy phase and the rest are killed on the next player phase.

[Colonel M]

I've also started a playthrough though mine is already off a bit. C4 took me 4-5 turns longer but as I told B2BD I didn't have Jeigan and my team was low on #s; about half my team consisted of generics (Class A nevertheless). I can at least try to line up some of my turn count numbers since I'm using Upper Mid on up (Julian is sort of being used for locks but I might train him and Dolph shouldn't be much of a challenge).

[Dat Nick]

Estimations have to be pretty close

But they aren't always. And you need to factor in exactly how big the offsets on some things are...

You're also using Sedgar.

Yeah, and?

If you're curious, this playthrough I've been using mid and upper mid tier units only (this was before I went into the tier list topic and said "yo Draug should be higher").

Yeah okay, you can do better with mid tiers than I can with high, you want a fucking cookie? Your superiority complex is really starting to piss me off.

I said that 1 cav gets counter killed on enemy phase and the rest are killed on the next player phase.

That strategy would not bode well at all since you'd still get hit by another cav and horseman.

[dondon151]

Yeah okay, you can do better with mid tiers than I can with high, you want a fucking cookie? Your superiority complex is really starting to piss me off.

I'm not tooting my own horn; I'm saying that you can do better.

That strategy would not bode well at all since you'd still get hit by another cav and horseman.

A cav and horseman that are already dead, OK. I've done this strategy at least twice...

[Rodykitty]

We get it, his turn counts aren't stellar. I know if I were put into this position I wouldn't feel like restarting just for this, and rather save it for a new playthrough.

[dondon151]

I didn't say anything about starting over.

[Rodykitty]

How else would have fix this problem? He can't magically go back and fix his turn count.

[dondon151]

He can try to improve his turn count from here on out.

[Colonel M]

Lol I 13 turned C5!

I almost beat C6 but Shiida died due to me miscalculating the Mage. On the bright side General!Wolf didn't get a good level (No Spd or Def) so... it all balances out. I'm doubting if I want to use Julian seriously or just as a "Theif" in general.

(Don't worry B2BD: I had to use the Warp staff a bit to cut down the turns. Not mocking you at all).

Edited August 17, 2009 by Colonel M

[Dat Nick]

Already doing the best I can so I don't know what to tell you except that I'm through with this conversation and will place people on ignore if it persists.

Seeing as I've never really attempted a turn-efficient playthrough of ANY FE game before, I honestly think I am doing a pretty damn good job, and dondon, I don't give two fucks if you think otherwise. Maybe it's not as accurate as an estimation as I thought, but fuck, I've stopped caring. All that matters is to be is that I'm doing this run abuseless and doing a halfway decent job, and for that I can say I've become a much better player than I was two or three years ago.

anyway

C15: Jake could consistently One shot mages with Stonehoist at decent hit rates due to supports, that was cool. Baited Gharnef with generics. Can't really think of anything else noteworthy to say except that desert is annoying and Merric is god tier for this chapter [for obvious reasons]

16 Marth, 17 cavs, 18 Cord, 13 Zag, and 14 Julian: same

12 Jake: 12 str, +10 hit modifier

13 Dolph: 28 HP, 12 str, 15 AS, 8 def

20/5 Merric: 42 HP, 11 mag, 20 AS, 7 def

8 Catria: 22 HP, 7 str, 17 AS, 10 def

probably have been giving lower level guys too many kills: But I also kind of have to blame terrain for making it annoying for the cavs to get any kills [Can only move two spaces to say, Dolph/Marth/Cord's 3, Merric's 6, and Catria's 8]

Turncount: 33 turns. Could have done it sooner, but I needed to do some emergency shopping with silver card, which ate up an extra 3 turns

C16: Tactics here are kind of subjective atm...my turncount will explain why.

Turncount: 38. Yeah, that's an ugly number. My reasoning for it is I didn't know exactly when the northern reinforcements stop, and I didn't want to deal with them too, so I just had them all clogged until the lower reinforcements started pouring in, and four units not fighting put a dent in efficiency for obvious reasons. Looking back, the turns for when the reinforcements come are posted, so...that was my bad.

17 Marth: 34 HP. 15 str. 19 AS. 13 def

18 Abel: got like skill and luck so lol

18 Cain: +0d

13 Zag: same

15 Julian: 28 HP, 14 str, 19 AS, 6 def

16 Jake: 25 HP, 16 str, +13 hit modifier

19 Cord: 36 HP, 18 str, 17 AS, 7 def

10 Catria: 23 HP, 8 str, 19 AS, 11 def

14 Dolph: 29 HP, 12 str, 16 AS, 8 def

C17: Jake, you're too epic for your own good. The man was one-shotting every mage on the map at 70~ hit rates with Stonehoist. Not only that, but he came in handy for the bishop/sniper trap. But yeah. Jake. He makes this chapter easier. WAY easier. The boss is actually the worst part, for once: Dragonkillers make it possible though [and I did a stupid move and accidentily screwed up in the inventory screen and forgot to withdraw a dragonkiller for Marth: Which obviously ate up at least a turn]

Turncount: 29 turns. Decent, considering I had to eat up about 3 turns to send Catria to the secret shop.

17 Marth, 18 Cavs, 19 Cord: same

14 Zag: 48 HP, 19 str, 24 AS, 19 def

15 Dolph: 30 HP, 12 str, 16 AS, 8 def

12 Catria: 25 HP, 8 str, 20 AS, 11 def

17 Julian: 30 HP, 14 str, 20 AS, 7 def

20/9 Merric: 44 HP, 12 mag, 21 AS, 7 def

20 Jake: 16 str, +18 hit modifier

other stuff: Promoted Lena for more move and the ability to attack, which came kind of in handy for weakening/armorslaying and stuff, but I still wouldn't do it unless you have a spare Master Seal around [which I did]

C17x:

Jake one shotting mages once again comes in useful for the range-trap corridor, but he's almost out of ammo so I'll probably ditch him for a bit. Also, the Paladins have to be the only gaiden chapter enemies that DON'T totally suck at life. By the way, return of Killer Bow snipers in tight corridors without save points nearby is not cool.

Turncount: 36. iffy number again, probably should have bought some more door/chest keys, but eh

17 Marth: 34 HP, 15 str, 19 AS, 13 def

20 Cain: 36 HP, 15 str, 16 AS, 11 def

20 Abel: 34 HP, 14 str, 16 AS, 11 def

22 Jake: 16 str, +19 hit modifier

15 Zag: 50 HP, 20 str, 25 AS, 19 def

17 Julian: 30 HP, 14 str, 20 AS, 7 def

17 Catria: 28 HP, 11 str, 20 AS, 14 def

17 Dolph: 31 HP, 12 str, 17 AS, 8 def

20/10 Merric: 45 HP, 12 mag, 22 AS, 8 def

20/1 Cord: 42 HP, 21 str, 18 AS, 9 def

reclassing Cord to Berserker and Abel to Sniper, so stats for next chapter will look a bit different

C18: Lategame time, and as such, the time when the game starts to feel like Easy mode.Nothing much to say here except lol slayer weapons, lol Chainey as Zag, lolol Sniper Abel with Longbow, et cetera...

18 Marth: 34 HP, 16 str, 19 AS, 13 def

20/1 Cain: 40 HP, 17 str, 17 AS, 12 def

18 Catria: 28 HP, 11 str, 20 AS, 14 def, 8 res [kewl]

18 Dolph: 32 HP, 13 str, 18 AS, 8 def

20/1 Abel: 30 HP, 16 str, 19 AS, 11 def

22 Jake: same

17 Julian: same

20/2 Cord: 41 HP, 21 str, 17 AS, 10 def

20/11 Merric: 45 HP, 12 mag, 22 AS, 8 def

15 Zag: same

Turncount: 14. Yayz, out of the 30~ range.

C19: Ugh treasure. Used up all my remaining keys: Got a half decent time for it. Easy chapter really, doing it in a decent time is the hardest part so I won't go into more detail.

18 Marth: same

20/3 Abel: 41 HP, 17 str, 20 AS, 11 def

20/3 Cain: 42 HP, 17 str, 18 AS, 12 def

17 Julian: same

20/2 Cord: same

12 Merric: 45 HP, 14 mag [spirit dust], 23 AS, 8 def

22 Jake: same

19 Catria: 35 HP [robe], 13 str [drop], 20 AS, 14 def

19 Dolph: 33 HP, 13 str, 19 AS, 9 def

16 Zag: 52 HP, 21 str, 26 AS, 20 def

Turncount: 17. I can live with that.

C20: Urgh, reinforcements...I was overly cautious in clogging forts just because that's how badly they were pissing me off. Brave+Reinforcments: NOT fun. Finally did in Minerva [who lived a hell of a long time for a utility character]

Recruited Lorenz by accident. Bit of EXP down the crapper, but spilled milk as far as I'm concerned...

19 Marth: 35 HP, 16 str, 19 AS, 14 def

20/3 Abel: same

20/3 Cain: same

20/1 Dolph: (Horseman, reclassing as General): 36 HP, 13 str, 22 AS, 12 def

20/1 Catria: 40 HP, 18 str, 21 AS, 19 def

20/4 Cord: 42 HP, 22 str, 19 AS (Speedwings), 10 def

16 Zag: same

20/13 Merric: 45 HP, 15 mag, 24 AS, 8 def

19 Julian: 31 HP, 14 str, 20 AS, 8 def

24 Jake: 17 str, +22 hit modifier [secret book]

Turncount: 25...as stated was overly cautious with reinforcements and needed to do some shopping with Silver Card. Mainly because I'm running out of Elfires.

20x: Lol Gaiden chapters...the paladins at the end are kind of annoying though. What is it with gaiden chapters and paladins being the only decent enemies? :/

19 Marth: same

16 Zag: same

20/4 Abel: 42 HP, 17 str, 21 AS, 11 def

20/4 Cain: 43 HP, 18 str, 18 AS, 13 def

20/2 Dolph: 44 HP, 15 str, 18 AS, 22 def

25 Jake: 17 str, +22 hit modifier

20/5 Cord: 42 HP, 22 str, 18 AS, 10 def [Never mind what I said earlier about the speedwing: I forgot to give it to him when the chapter started and then he speed level upped so I'm not sure he needs it]

19 Julian: same

20/6 Catria: 44 HP, 20 str, 23 AS, 20 def

I made an extra effort to increase Catria's axe rank this chapter: Which is why she gained so many levels compared to everybody else.

18 turncount. Would have been lower if I had more than one spare master key...oh well.

Edited August 18, 2009 by Miyamoto Powers

[grandjackal]

Zag's way too damn powerful, it's hilarious to see those kinds of stats.

[Dat Nick]

C21:

yawn lategame chapter. Almost got overwhelmed by reinforcements [Thankfully most were thwarted due to Catria/Zag] so Chainey!Zag pulled the plug on the boss. Also had to use fortify.

Turncount: lol12. Actually beat it in 7, but shopping

20 Marth: 35 HP, 16 str, 20 AS, 14 def

20 Julian: 31 HP, 14 str, 20 AS, 8 def

20/5 Cain: 44 HP, 18 str, 19 AS, 13 def

20/6 Abel: 44 HP, 19 str, 23 AS, 12 def

17 Zag: 53 HP, 22 str, 26 AS, 21 def

20/6 Cord: 42 HP, 23 str, 19 AS, 10 def

20/8 Catria: 45 HP, 22 str, 23 AS, 21 def

27 Jake: 17 str, +23 hit modifier

20/3 Dolph: 45 HP, 15 str, 18 AS, 22 def

14 Merric: 46 HP, 21 mag [spirit dust x3]. 24 AS, 8 def