Book 2 Tier List

[grandjackal]

If you're going to go with the usual hyping of characters, at least realize that Minerva is already top tier.

I meant the actual top ;;>> 'Twas a joke anyways, relax.

[Colonel M]

Hm one other question:

How is it Paola > Sirius > Katua? Shouldn't it either be Paola > Katua > Sirius or even Sirius > Paola > Katua? I guess I'm a little confused how Sirius beats one and not the other I guess...

[Mekkah]

Paola starts much much better than Katua. I'm not going to draw out a lot of numbers but Katua, while godly, does take quite a bit to get going, and Paola pretty much takes care of herself for the rest of the game.

[Colonel M]

I know Paola is quite godly. The thing is how is Sirius > Katua?

[General Spoon]

I know Paola is quite godly. The thing is how is Sirius > Katua?

Paola and Sirius both take care of themselves from the point they join, as has been said. Katua doesn't for awhile, as has been said already. And since Paola joins a chapter earlier than Sirius (they both join pretty damn early), Paola>Sirius>Katua.

Edited August 15, 2009 by Miror B.

[Rodykitty]

Paola has all of Katua's strengths (16 base speed!?) and none of her flaws.

Paola doesn't even have Paola's flaws!!

Edited August 15, 2009 by Rody

[Dat Nick]

Well, arrows.

But it's really the only thing she has to worry herself over.

edit: Can anybody refresh my memory as to why Est isn't in the same tier as Sheema/Roshe?

Edited August 15, 2009 by Miyamoto Powers

[Rodykitty]

She's good enough to where she can just dismount and not even have to worry about that, if she wants to get into bow range.

[grandjackal]

Why is Est not in bottom? Is it because of Miracle Blade?

[Rodykitty]

Maybe. You're the one that promoted Miracle Blade Est.

That, and somewhat better availability to get going. All of Ch. 16 & 17 for extra Orb use.

Now here's the real debate: What happens if she chooses to kill Gra n00bs for EXP? Obviously she won't get all of them but is it clearly favortism?

Granted, these are very simple reasons based on a quick reorganization of the list because of the new tier names.

Edited August 15, 2009 by Rody

[senka]

Where is MARRICH?

I cannot find him in top tier..

[Ϲharlie]

Where is MARRICH?

I cannot find him in top tier..

That's probably because he's in high.

[Colonel M]

Alright. Though in all honesty I don't see how she has a "shakier" earlygame when she's one of the only fliers for a chapter and Silver Lances at least make up for her lower Str for a while.

[senka]

Where is MARRICH?

I cannot find him in top tier..

That's probably because he's in high.

I really cannot understand Wendell position ,if he is on top ,Marric should on top too...

[Dr. Tarrasque]

http://www.mediafire.com/?wwtwmxlwamq

enemy stats.

[Rodykitty]

Alright. Though in all honesty I don't see how she has a "shakier" earlygame when she's one of the only fliers for a chapter and Silver Lances at least make up for her lower Str for a while.

We had to break Abel & Kain's tie, this is a far easier tie to break.

I really cannot understand Wendell position ,if he is on top ,Marric should on top too...

Probably because of utility + availability, and his stats actually aren't that bad considering he starts with 5 Mag and will probably be doubling most enemies in the game except "fast-type" units.

http://www.mediafire.com/?wwtwmxlwamq

enemy stats.

Adding this link to OP so that it'll always be available to obtain for reference.

[Rodykitty]

Bumping this thread due to interest and being the most up to date tier list currently.

I can see Kashim rising higher. FE3 isn't exactly an enemy phase dominated game.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Above Marisa perhaps. Also, you should switch the enemy stats link so people don't have to download it:

http://www.serenesforest.net/fe3/enemy_data.html

[Rodykitty]

Can you explain why above Marisa in particular? It seems like a random choice.

I can just settle with putting him in top without comparing him to characters first. He has better join time than Navarre (who is also in top), and utility on his opening chapter at that.

Edited October 18, 2009 by FE3 Player

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Can you explain why above Marisa in particular? It seems like a random choice.

I can just settle with putting him in top without comparing him to characters first. He has better join time than Navarre (who is also in top), and utility on his opening chapter at that.

Pretty much what you said and it seems like he should be right below Kain. Their base stats are pretty similar and he has greater availability. I'm not too sure actually but below Julian? that I can't see.

[grandjackal]

I can agree with Kashim rising. It is pretty true that you can't exactly throw someone out and have them tank a group outside of perhaps Doga for a while.

However, this makes me wonder about Gordon and George. Gordon's providing that utility for quite a long while, and once he gets a speed level, he can double with iron rather fine. By the time Kashim shows up, Gordon's probably closing in on promotion. Once Kashim shows up, Gordon might be lessaay...Well it's 4 chapters, most littered with dracos of which Gordon's Steel is the best chip you could possibly ask for for those psychopaths. Not to mention that his base 7 Str and Steel is gonna give him quite a bit of mileage until he starts doubling with iron, would you say...6 levels as unreasonable?

11 Gordon

24 HP, 8 Str, 8 Skill, 7 Speed, 8 Luck, 10 Wlv, 8 Def

Base level 7 Kashim

24 HP, 10 Str, 7 Skill, 8 Speed, 4 Luck, 8 Wlv, 6 Def

Pretty close call. 8 Speed doesn't double with steel, and with iron that's only 1 more AS, so he's doubling those with 1 AS, which is very ridiculously few units in the entire course of the game. 10 Str seems like a win. However, soon enough, we get George and the Parthia. Kashim cannot use this until level 20/7. Gordon on the other hand could probably use it as soon as George shows up. Gordon in 4 levels can double with it even, well anything that has 0 AS, like everything in Dragon's Dale. I'll give them 4 levels.

15 Gordon

25 HP, 10 Str, 10 Skill, 9 Speed, 9 Luck, enough Wlv, 9 Def.

11 Kashim

26 HP, 12 Str, 8 Skill, 9 Speed, 4 Luck, 8 Wlv, 6 Def.

Seems like a minor win for Kashim, but do keep in mind that Gordon's packing Parthia. Gordon's packing 30 Mt as opposed to Kashim's 25 with Silver. Gordon can also switch to Silver, though he'll have 2 less mt. Gordon is 1 Str shy of OHKOing with Silver, but he can just use Parthia, and every shot kill warrents hima level. He could be level 20 by the end of the chapter. Kashim at best would probably be level 13-14.

Speaking of which, we just got the Orion bolt a chapter prior. First chapter of dragonvalley is desert, the second requires you to dismount, as does the fourth. The third, Gordon can put his Sniper Waterwalk to use in the twisted frozen rivers. However, let's promote them as soon as we can.

Gordon 15/1

25 HP, 12 Str, 15 Skill, 14 Speed, 9 Luck, lolWlv, 10 Def, 3 Res, 7 Move

11/1 Kashim

26 HP, 12 Str, 10 Skill, 9 Speed, 4 Luck, 8 Wlv, 8 Def, 0 Res, 9 Move.

Desert renders mounts useless, and 2 maps you have to dismount, 1 has action closer to Gordon than it does Kashim, along with Parthia use, not that he needs it anymore as he can just OHKO flyings with silver. Parthia can be saved for the other dragons, which compare Gordon's 32 Mt with Kashim's 25. So, basically 13x2 damage to fire dragons compared to Gordon's 19x2. That's a 12 damage difference to the Fire dragon's 48 HP. Gordon leaves them with 10 HP. Kashim, 22. Ice dragons have 30 HP, 15 Def. Gordon can actually ORKO dragons, Kashim's doing 10x2. I'd take killing over not.

Then fastforward to human chapters again, where paladins with silver have 2 AS. Kashim needs 2 speed to double them with silver (as in Steel won't cut it, neither would Parthia if you gave him a manual). Gordon can double them off the bat. If Gordon proc'd a Str point, he would be doing 26 mt, which compared to Gra paladin's 30 HP and 11 Def is a ORKO. Considering how badass Gordon is with Parthia in the dragonvalley, there's no reason he SHOULDN'T have that Str due to leveling speed. Kashim on the other hand is not quite as garunteed.

Also, I mentioned dismounting. See, indoors, Kashim makes 2 Skill, 2 Def and 3 move dissapear, basically he loses his promotion gains. On top of that, he's now losing move to Gordon by 1. After the dracovalley, of which Gordon's mobility and no need to dismount leaves him with the better mobility, there are 5 battles that take place indoors, 5 outdoors. So for the basically the time they share existence, Gordon destroys him for 9 maps. Kashim has a minor Str lead before promotion, of which is 6 chapters, while basically he wins mobility (though not necessarily offensively) for 5 others. So 9 chapters of epic, or 11 chapters of being minorly better?

George on the other hand basically shows up for free, already to do bsically what both of them can for free, no promotion item required. He can OHKO flyers with silver, he can ORKO Ice Dragons with Parthia, only loss to Gordon is 4 less damage on fire dragons, and the obvious win they have over him afterwards, though I still wouldn't say George is exactly sucking dick afterwards.

Edited October 18, 2009 by Galactica Leader Cyrus

[Don Draper]

Thoughts on splitting up top tier into two? There's no way characters that are incredible from start to finish (Paola, Sirius) are in the same tier as characters that need a good deal of effort to get going (most of the cavs).

[Dat Nick]

just toss Kashim a manual if Partia is that big a deal. Nobody else wants the damned thing outside of Doga

Or just give him a Wlvl orb for a while

Edited October 18, 2009 by Athena's Chest

[grandjackal]

just toss Kashim a manual if Partia is that big a deal. Nobody else wants the damned thing outside of Doga

Or just give him a Wlvl orb for a while

Only one nearby is Aquarius, which boosts by 10%, bringing it to 30%. He still needs quite a bit of leveling before Parthia use. I could give that same orb to Gordon to give him +10% to his Str, Speed and Skill, along with the time he had prior to Kashim to have +5 in everything, 35% is above 1/3 while 30% is below 1/3, so I did actually boost Gordon's growth speed by a considerable amount. On the other hand, Kashim hasn't changed much.

Basically my argument is that Gordon's promotion is just THAT good.

Besides, this is Gordon basically for free, who would still perform better than Kashim with the manual, because Gordon's already capable of doing what's needed, along with not being hindered by times where he's forced to dismount (where Gordon is actually more mobile then).

You also ignore the utility he had on dracoslaying in the chapters prior, specifically chapter 2 and 3. In a way, that ties them in my comparison, only difference is that Gordon's number is decimating in comparison to Kashim's slight wins in his chapters.

Speaking of which, Doga proc'ing speed lets him use the Slim Lance and double, making him basically a dude with an iron sword and +5 crit even indoors. Basically means he is a better offense unit than dismounted cavs (since only one who will be doubling anytime with iron lances is Cecile) until they start leading him in Str, and even then he'd have a crit lead. Luke would tie him though lacking the crit after the same three levels Doga would need, but he's nowhere near as tough. Roddy...Well his start blows, it's not a mystery.

So at his start he's doing heavy steel chip and helping draw in dracos with little fear. By the time he gets the speed, he can use slims and basically be an armored myrmidon with less move. Only problem is he needs 12 levels to wield iron and double, which is level...18. Or, we could promote him at level 11, and get this.

11/1 Doga

26 HP, 11 Str, 9 Skill, 9 Speed, 3 Luck, 8 Wlv, 15 Def, 3 Res.

You get a knight crest fairly early, and with the greatness of his defensive abilities early on along with Slim use for at least 2 of those levels, this can happen fairly early on. He's doubling with iron, and now he has a workable speed base for his growth to work it's magic. His Str will probably become troublesome later, but it's better than having to deal with a shitty speed base forever.

Edited October 18, 2009 by Galactica Leader Cyrus

[Don Draper]

Cyrus brought up a good point about Cecil>Luke in the old topic:

His only win over her is HP, while Cecile basically has whatever her bases are over him forever. 1 more speed, 20% more growth. The sooner you get to doubling with lances, the better. 2 levels she has the ability to do so with iron lances (8 base speed, iron lances are 6 weight), Luke won't be doing this for 5 levels. In that time, Cecile could have 11 speed, Steel Lance weight is 8 so she now can double with steel when he has iron.

She has the lead basically forever until he gets the ability to use the same weapons while doubling, and when he has a noticeable HP and Def lead, as he has 40% better HP growth, and 10% more Def.

In fact, she has the starting rank of 7 WLV as opposed to Luke's 5. She can already use the Silver Lance, for 21 Mt. Unlike Arran, she won't double with it, so she has this sort of Jeigen utility as well, since starting axers have 13 mt, which is a 4RKO with her 19 HP and 7 Def.

Then consider that once she gets 2 speed (4 levels), she'll be able to double with it whereas Luke needs 5 levels just to use it (and he won't be doubling with it either).