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Heal and Destroy


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Next: Lughasadh :D

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The Vague Katti's cool and all, but being locked to 1 range isn't. Especially in 4-E-3 and onward, when all the enemies have 1-2 range.

Edited by Richter Renard
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Well Lughnasadh is worse than the VK in many areas.

1. It is only avaliable for Leonardo, the VK can be used by anyone with an SS in Swords.

a. Leonardo gets less game time than Rolf and Shinon and is worse.

2. It only gets 2 range (2-3 for marksman), since enemies have a 1-2 range they have the ability to hurt Leonardo with getting countered.

This is why I think we should take down Lughnasadh first and because I can't pronounce its name correctly.

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Well Lughnasadh is worse than the VK in many areas.

1. It is only avaliable for Leonardo, the VK can be used by anyone with an SS in Swords.

a. Leonardo gets less game time than Rolf and Shinon and is worse.

2. It only gets 2 range (2-3 for marksman), since enemies have a 1-2 range they have the ability to hurt Leonardo with getting countered.

This is why I think we should take down Lughnasadh first and because I can't pronounce its name correctly.

Yeah, let's forget that Leonardo isn't even on the same team as Rolf and Shinon until part 4 (and even then, they may still wind up on different teams). Also, Lughnasadh's got a useful Speed boost. The VK's slight Defense boost is next to no help after 4-E-3.

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How about the endgame tho?

VK is worth bring into the endgame unlike Lughnasadh.

Even if you bring in the Lugnasadh you still are less likely to bless it than the VK. The VK is a sword which means that there are several canidates who are ideal, while the Lugnasadh has only Leonardo while there is a DB that is a lot better.

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simply because lughnasadh is weaker and its hard to spell :P

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Lughnasadh can be used with Beastfoe for epic pwnage in 3-6, whilst stuff like Rexcaliibur is useless for the most part. Silencer has too much, though.

Edited by kirsche
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Lughnasadh can be used with Beastfoe for epic pwnage in 3-6, whilst stuff like Rexcaliibur is useless for the most part. Silencer has too much, though.

This. Silencer's good and all, but it has WAY too much.

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No such thing as enough. :D

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No such thing as enough.

I beg to differ. kirsche likes the Silencer, but even he admits that it has too much.

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I will agree to keep the silencer at 40. :P

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There, compromise.

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Even if there are other DBers better than Leo, that doesn't mean that he can't contribute. He can use it with Beastfoe in 3-6 for great effect. On the other hand, the VK only has Endgame use, which isn't everything.

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VK + Edward + Resolve + Wrath = PWNAGE

On the dragon level I personally have found the VK with Edward to be incredibly useful as after Edward takes one hit so resolve/wrath activates he can destroy dragons with ease although not getting hit is better in general.

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VK + Edward + Resolve + Wrath = PWNAGE

On the dragon level I personally have found the VK with Edward to be incredibly useful as after Edward takes one hit so resolve/wrath activates he can destroy dragons with ease although not getting hit is better in general.

Being defenseless against dragons on Enemy Phase != PWNAGE, for one. Second, Wrath sucks. 30% or less HP requirement ftl. And personally, I hate Edward. Also, you damaged your own case by saying not getting hit is better in general.

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Being defenseless against dragons on Enemy Phase != PWNAGE, for one. Second, Wrath sucks. 30% or less HP requirement ftl. And personally, I hate Edward. Also, you damaged your own case by saying not getting hit is better in general.

Also personally I dislike Leo, Edwards growths were good enough that BEXPing him extra far got him amazing stats. (The reason I BEXPed him as opposed to others is because I only needed one more person for an SS sword and loling at Stefan and average stats showed how much Edward can shine. Ironically though Mia ended up capping every stat with the help of an ashera icon.

Afterwards with resolve he really doesn't get hit. His avoid stat is amazing and added with the power of resolve he can dodge almost any attack and executes astra way more often, and astra isn't that bad when it kills the target with an unlimited use weapon.

Leonardo will get hit close up as it isn't worth it to expend units to guard him from multiple sides. Trueblade Speed Cap > Marksman Speed Cap by 6 which also implies Trueblade Avo > Marksman Avo. The chances of Edward getting hit is slim if you aren't suicidal.

Also for Leonardo + Lug there are many better alternatives for the DB as you have said before so it logically implies you are only going to have the Lug around for 5 chapters unless you seriously baby Leo and ignore Shinon and Rolf. While the VK comes with Stefan which we will ignore because it would be wasted on that stage. The VK is then a canidate for the endgame. The endgame I believe lasts 5 chapters which are all longer than the ones before it in which Leo is available. If you factor in the level with Stefan by giving it to a more reliable sword user than it rises to 6 chapters. So the VK will see equal or more action than the Lug will on average as many will agree that Shinon and Rolf are better canidates for the Tower of Guidance. True the Lug does cover for the lack of speed (+5 bonus), Leonardo's crappy speed growth of 35% does ruin it a little. I can agree that Edward does have an equally bad defense growth but who needs defense when you aren't getting hit that often? Combining Edward with an A support with an Earth affinity like Caineghis who isn't going to get PWNED by enemies then you have an invincible fighting machine. Lug does get a range of 2 (2-3 Marksman) but lacks the ability to do close up fighting while units in part four often have 1-2 range which means they could potentially counter Leonardo's attacks unless they are performed at 3 range but Leonardo cannot fight back at 1 range. This causes him to be a liability and means the VK is better. If we compare weapons.

Vague Katti, SS Sword, 20 MT, 95 Hit, 5 Crit, 10 WT, 1 RNG, 50 Uses, +3 Def (Redemption for Edward's Defense)

Lughnasadh, * Bow, 16 MT, 100 Hit, 5 Crit, 5 WT, 2 (-3) RNG, 40 Uses, +5 Spd Leonardo Only (Redemption for Leo's Speed)

The VK can be used by multiple people but since my previous post mentioned Edward I will use him as the wielder.

Vague Katti has 4 more MT, 10 more uses. Lug has 5 more Hit, 5 less weight, and a different range.

So basically:

4 Mt 10 Uses v 5 hit -5 wt

5 hit is barely anything especially with the Trueblade's high hit and wt is really ineffectual at the point in which you get the VK.

Edward is nearly if not always doubling his target with 100% accuracy with weapons that have less accuracy and higher weights than the VK which for the VK means an 8 MT difference. At 20/20/10 which is a little low I think for the ending of part 4 Leo has an average of about 28 spd opposed to edward's AS of 37. A 9 AS difference. Edward's AS is enough to double while Leo's isn't which means the damage difference becomes a whooping 28.

VK > Lug which is why we should attack the Lug as opposed to the VK. Lug does not have any of the traits needed to stay within the list while the VK does which is why I feel like we really need to get the Lug out of here. Also only one char can use it which is why we must get rid of it.

I know the VK isn't the best it could be getting its crit nerfed T.T but there are many more canidates that are even more worthless including the Lug. Before going after the VK how about killing the Brave Weapons or 1-2 range S weapons?

Sorry if it's a little too long and unorganized. :P

If there are any mistakes in my thinking please inform me.

Edited by BlackKnight666
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Thoron-20

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(Stuff about Leo getting attacked up close)

If you're going to attack someone by mentioning the fact that they can't counter, at least be consistent about it. Especially since VK Edward also has this problem. Only in the case of magic users, Edward has even more reason to worry than Leo does since his Resistance is garbage, as opposed to Leo's, and there are more spaces to attack from 2 range than there are to attack from 1 range.

(Stuff about the VK seeing use on more maps than Lughnasadh)

No. Just... no. 4 out of the 5 Endgame maps are defeat Boss maps, which I can end whenever I please. Also, 6 chapters? I'd consider it to be that the Endgame chapters don't even hold that much weight.

(Stuff about defense being unimportant)

Considering that laguz have high hit, you're SEVERELY underrating Defense. Especially since 2 of the DB's 3 part 3 chapters have laguz in them.

(Statistical comparison of the weapons)

Too bad that Edward's crappy Resistance is beyond redemption, huh? Also, I'd consider the VK's 10 extra uses superficial at best.

(20/20/10 statistical comparison)

Since when did this become Leo vs Edward?

(Stuff about Lughnasadh needing to be eliminated because only one character can use it)

Just how many other personal weapons got eliminated? I can only count two. Unless you're suggesting that Amiti, Ettard, Ragnell, Thani, Tarvos, and Cymbeline all need to go as well just because only one character can use them? How simple minded.

If there are any mistakes in my thinking please inform me.

Huh. There are probably more mistakes in your thinking than there are grains of sand in a desert - I can't keep track of 'em all.

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VK > Lugh, but Lugh > Rexcalibur.

Take 3-6, with an enemy in front of him, Leo with Lugh + Beastfoe can kill an enemy per turn over th head of the enemy in front of him. And since he can't counter, the enemy in front of him on't die, so Leo won't risk being attacked too many times in one go. So not only do we get a kill per turn, we get a kill per turn that's safe and won't result in a unit's death. Heck, if the enemy unit in front of Leo is untransformed then you don't even need to heal Leo.

Rexcalibur is useless.

We can obviously ascertain thet usefulness > uselessness, so thus we can tell that Lugh > Rexcalibur.

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