Lucius Appreciation Thread

[Junkhead]

Is this topic for real? Serra as like, the worst magical unit? Lucius as the best?

LOL

[HJ.]

Admittedly I only skimmed the topic, but I saw all other magic users > Serra at some point.

[Junkhead]

Yeah, but you obviously did not see all the arguements, some of them were opinions, and effeciently Nino falls the lowest due to babying.

Ranault has to fall right after her, because he does have some use...he comes with a weapon with high Mt and doesn't get slowed down by it.

[HJ.]

Yeah, I kinda just skipped ahead at some point, because I couldn't stomach any more pages of you guys having a contest to see who can suck Lucius' dick the most. Anyway, all's well that ends well, right? Though Lucius still isn't the best magic user if you ask me. Not even out of the Erk/Canas/Lucius trio. In fact I'd go ahead and say he's the worst of those three

Renault is a baller.

[Junkhead]

This is the "Lucius Appreciation Thread", notice how this is on Fire Emblem section? Because opinions are less likely to go well...Lucius is good because out of most of them he tends to have good offense.

His Def isn't too much of a problem since magic users aren't the type to have go around in the middle of the field...even when Canas' Def is the best out of the magic users not named Renault or Athos, it's not "great" just good".

The point why Lucius is good is because he doubles reliably at joining time, and by joining time I mean by Chapter 7, because Lyndis' Mode is also a part of the game that most don't like to take into account, he really does double all enemies aside from two or three mercenaries there in Hard Mode, his base Atk is 11 and that is something when enemies that aren't mages have 0 Res, even mages have low res...Lucius is on the borderline of not onerounding them on Hard Mode, yet, he does.

Erk is good...he comes early and has -1 base At and -3 AS, he could do some decent damage too, he has to be the second or thir best mage (Because of Pent, of course), his Spd is also reliable, his base Atk at 20/1 isn't so bad when he has +1 AS lead over Lucius and +3 on Canas, that is also Pent's base level (Level 6) while bearing -10% Spd growth (40%).

Serra is quite useful at Lyndis' Mode...but is later suffering when her rival, Prisicilla, arrives...problem is Serra's combat, she isn't likely to promote early even when trained on Lyndis' Mode effeciently, sure, her Avo and Crit. Evade is WAY better than Erk/Canas' and Lucius', but her 16 Atk is no big deal by the time she promotes, she will also bear the same 15 AS due to being weighted down by her magic, she only has +1 AS lead to Canas and has -7 Atk than Canas.

[HJ.]

This is the "Lucius Appreciation Thread", notice how this is on Fire Emblem section? Because opinions are less likely to go well...Lucius is good because out of most of them he tends to have good offense.

It wasn't an opinion lol, I was just being courteous. But let's get down to it, then: Lucius has better offense on the player phase, sure. At least compared to Canas. Canas durability isn't super duper garbage though, so he can actually exist on the enemy phace. Lucius even faces danger of being critted due to his terrible Luck. Later on, Lucius' Spd loses it luster since it's his base that's good, not his growth. It's entirely sufficient, no doubt, but better than Erk's or even Canas'? Not really. His Mag? Anima and Dark both have more mt, Light magic sucks. Show me a lategame enemy Lucius gets that Canas/Erk doesn't. I bet you can't, because I don't even believe such enemies exist. Canas easily takes the lategame cake since they all double the same enemies (i.e. not Heroes, Nomadic Troopers and Swordmasters, but everything else unless I'm forgetting an enemy type), but Canas can whip out Luna against certain other enemy types (magic users and some physical units), while Erk and Lucius can only weep in shame.

The point why Lucius is good is because he doubles reliably at joining time, and by joining time I mean by Chapter 7, because Lyndis' Mode is also a part of the game that most don't like to take into account, he really does double all enemies aside from two or three mercenaries there in Hard Mode, his base Atk is 11 and that is something when enemies that aren't mages have 0 Res, even mages have low res...Lucius is on the borderline of not onerounding them on Hard Mode, yet, he does.

He doubles Lyn mode Shamans? Very cool. It's not like Lyn, Sain, Kent and Florina also do this and are better against other enemies thanks to WTA/not dying from the enemies breathing on them... or is it? Lyn Mode is so ridiculously easy it hardly matters at all. When Lucius rejoins HHM at level 8, he'll have 12 Spd. Oh, hey, so does Erk! As for Canas, well, he loses offense, but his durability is much better. This also lets him exist on the enemy phase like I mentioned before, severely narrowing the offense lead. Enemies that Canas can double also exist.

Erk is good...he comes early and has -1 base At and -3 AS, he could do some decent damage too, he has to be the second or thir best mage (Because of Pent, of course), his Spd is also reliable, his base Atk at 20/1 isn't so bad when he has +1 AS lead over Lucius and +3 on Canas, that is also Pent's base level (Level 6) while bearing -10% Spd growth (40%).

What? Well whatever, unless I'm significantly misunderstanding something, you're saying Erk is good. I agree, Erk is a good unit.

Serra is quite useful at Lyndis' Mode...but is later suffering when her rival, Prisicilla, arrives...problem is Serra's combat, she isn't likely to promote early even when trained on Lyndis' Mode effeciently, sure, her Avo and Crit. Evade is WAY better than Erk/Canas' and Lucius', but her 16 Atk is no big deal by the time she promotes, she will also bear the same 15 AS due to being weighted down by her magic, she only has +1 AS lead to Canas and has -7 Atk than Canas.

Serra can be like level 9-10 in HHM when she rejoins, she's going to reach level 20 way before Priscilla does. Being mounted is nice, but your units generally aren't spread far and wide that early on because they don't have the durability for that. And if they are spread, a healer will be accompanying each group. Priscilla hardly sees more healing than Serra, and Serra has better durability. Her combat is hardly worse than that of other units since she has a level lead. Her class has an Exp bonus so that+Staves=win. She also has the Spd to opt for heavier tomes should it be neccesary. Regardless, being your only healer in the nightmare that is 13x is absolutely amazing. Serra is amazing, and Priscilla doesn't change that.

[Junkhead]

Lucius has better offense on the player phase, sure. At least compared to Canas. Canas durability isn't super duper garbage though, so he can actually exist on the enemy phace.

I mentioned earlier his Def isn't great either, he still gets 2RKO'd much like Lucius. And I also mentioned mages aren't the type to even have around fielding or in range of enemies, unless you're dumb enough to do that...sure. They also have this thing called "Two-range". Use it.

Lucius even faces danger of being critted due to his terrible Luck.

Because Erk, Canas & Renault (Since you thought Lucius was the worst...) don't? And there hardly are any swordmasters or any enemy wielding weapons high on critical, there is only Lloyd on endgame. But again? Who doesn't die against him unless you're Oswin?

Later on, Lucius' Spd loses it luster since it's his base that's good, not his growth.

She [serra] also has the Spd to opt for heavier tomes should it be neccesary.

What.

It's entirely sufficient, no doubt, but better than Erk's or even Canas'? Not really. His Mag? Anima and Dark both have more mt, Light magic sucks.

Yet, he bears enough Mag to actually kill, 14 Atk at lvl 8 is just enough really, it's not like you need Canas' 18 Atk when he is 2RKO'ing and will recieve hits on enemy phase, Lucius could at least take on enemies from two-range with at most 8 AS while onerounding physical units that don't have too much HP. They suffer the same trouble on enemy phase when they're getting 2RKO'd by most things...at least Lucius will not be getting 1RKO'd by mercenaries and getting doubled.

Show me a lategame enemy Lucius gets that Canas/Erk doesn't. I bet you can't, because I don't even believe such enemies exist. Canas easily takes the lategame cake since they all double the same enemies (i.e. not Heroes, Nomadic Troopers and Swordmasters, but everything else unless I'm forgetting an enemy type).

Not in HHM, unless you're reffering to soldiers/generals/knights, especially when he's loosing 4 AS from Luna. And Luna is overrated when you can only be useful by endgame and aren't doing much earlier unless you take down shamans.

Canas can whip out Luna against certain other enemy types (magic users and some physical units), while Erk and Lucius can only weep in shame.

Oh yeah, Erk doubles more than Canas and has a good use of the Thunder tome which doesn't slow him down, Lucius could have Shine by just -1 AS cost but +2 Mt isn't bad when your Mag is actually high.

He doubles Lyn mode Shamans? Very cool. It's not like Lyn, Sain, Kent and Florina can't.

Lyn or Florina don't oneround shamans even with iron weapons. Unless...unless Lyn's str is a bit raised.

Also do this and are better against other enemies thanks to WTA/not dying from the enemies breathing on them... or is it?

Funny, you mentioned Florina.

Lyn Mode is so ridiculously easy it hardly matters at all.

And that it doesn't matter because...? If that were the case I don't see how everyone still thinks Seth is the best on FE8 Hard Mode when it's just as piss easy as this, yet, it matters.

When Lucius rejoins HHM at level 8, he'll have 12 Spd. Oh, hey, so does Erk!

It's also funny how you didn't mention Lucius also beats Erk on offense, he gains +2 Atk for the cost of 1 AS, his Mag is not beig deal either when it's lower than Canas...but hey, he doubles, that's also part of offense.

As for Canas, well, he loses offense, but his durability is much better.

That fails to be amuzing when he is a magic user...and when compared to a few other physical units that suffer durability problems even with higher Def (i.e Eliwood), it's crap, especially on HHM. Like I mentioned previously, he suffers the exact same problem of being 2RKO'd.

This also lets him exist on the enemy phase like I mentioned before, severely narrowing the offense lead. Enemies that Canas can double also exist.

@Bolded: Actually...like the few times I did.

So you're saying the main point of a magic user is tanking when even physical units of higher Def suffer from the same problem?

Serra can be like level 9-10 in HHM when she rejoins, she's going to reach level 20 way before Priscilla does.

Exept all of that can be concluded as the following:

- Favoritism

- Boss Abuse

- Personal Experience

This is a debate.

Being mounted is nice, but your units generally aren't spread far and wide that early on because they don't have the durability for that.

Wow, so Canas is going to the front line, because keeping your magic users in the front or in the middle of the field isn't the most of idealistic plans. I'm just sayin'

Priscilla hardly sees more healing than Serra, and Serra has better durability.

You mean having the same Def and slightly better HP is "better"?

Her combat is hardly worse than that of other units since she has a level lead.

Lolfavoritism.

Edited February 11, 2010 by Alan Rainsworth

[HJ.]

I mentioned earlier his Def isn't great either, he still gets 2RKO'd much like Lucius. And I also mentioned mages aren't the type to even have around fielding or in range of enemies, unless you're dumb enough to do that...sure. They also have this thing called "Two-range". Use it.

Sure, some things 2RKO them both, but Lucius is much less durable and you can't deny this. It is safer for Canas to be in range of enemies on the enemy phase. Also, your argument seems to imply that you don't want your casters to see action on the enemy phase? If they can do it, why shouldn't they? Two-range, yes, and that helps Lucius on the player phase. I was talking about the enemy face.

Because Erk, Canas & Renault (Since you thought Lucius was the worst...) don't? And there hardly are any swordmasters or any enemy wielding weapons high on critical, there is only Lloyd on endgame. But again? Who doesn't die against him unless you're Oswin?

Uh, no, Erk, Canas and Renault don't have Luck as bad as Lucius. Not even close. But anyways, Renault? Who mentioned him? I said Lucius was the worst out of Canas/Erk/Lucius.

Yet, he bears enough Mag to actually kill, 14 Atk at lvl 8 is just enough really, it's not like you need Canas' 18 Atk when he is 2RKO'ing and will recieve hits on enemy phase, Lucius could at least take on enemies from two-range with at most 8 AS while onerounding physical units that don't have too much HP. They suffer the same trouble on enemy phase when they're getting 2RKO'd by most things...at least Lucius will not be getting 1RKO'd by mercenaries and getting doubled.

14 atk is never enough if the enemy even has 4 Res, and they often do. The ones that don't are types like Cavaliers and possibly Pirates/Brigands, who have enough HP to survive anyway. I don't really understand the rest of your post except the Merc part. Good thing Mercs are sort of rare except in chapter 18, where Oswin blocks their progress completely since there's a very nice bottleneck there.

Not in HHM, unless you're reffering to soldiers/generals/knights, especially when he's loosing 4 AS from Luna. And Luna is overrated when you can only be useful by endgame and aren't doing much earlier unless you take down shamans.

Read the tier list topic. Snipers, Falcoknights, Wyvern Riders, all magical enemies and possibly Paladins and Generals. Canas gets these enemies later on while Erk/Lucius don't. I have actually shown this, so "not in HMM" is not a valid counterargument.

Lyn or Florina don't oneround shamans even with iron weapons. Unless...unless Lyn's str is a bit raised.

Lucius doesn't one-round them either, then, since they have significantly more Res than Def. Lyn and Florina do one-round shamans with Mani Katti and Iron Lance respectively, though.

Funny, you mentioned Florina.

I sure did, because even though Florina also has bad durability, Lucius' is even worse.

And that it doesn't matter because...? If that were the case I don't see how everyone still thinks Seth is the best on FE8 Hard Mode when it's just as piss easy as this, yet, it matters.

Even if the game is easy, Seth is making it easier than other units. So he's the best. Seems fairly obvious. Lucius is not the best in LHM nor is he even close to being the best, and furthermore LHM is one, small part of a much bigger game. I guess it's wrong to say it doesn't matter, though. It's just extremely insignificant because LHM is so easy that taking Lucius off your team won't even be felt in terms of efficiency or difficulty. If anything, letting Kent and Sain rip through everything is faster than having to slowly nudge Lucius along.

It's also funny how you didn't mention Lucius also beats Erk on offense, he gains +2 Atk for the cost of 1 AS, his Mag is not beig deal either when it's lower than Canas...but hey, he doubles, that's also part of offense.

I don't really understand this either, to be honest. Anyway, I'll counter what I assume you're saying: Yeah, Lucius slightly beats Erk offensively (since anima tomes have higher mt it's not as much as you'd think), but Erk is more durable, so it's a tie at best.

That fails to be amuzing when he is a magic user...and when compared to a few other physical units that suffer durability problems even with higher Def (i.e Eliwood), it's crap, especially on HHM. Like I mentioned previously, he suffers the exact same problem of being 2RKO'd.

Why...? He's a caster. So what, you can just ignore durability? No no. Canas has 4 more Def at first and his HP and Def will rise significantly faster than Lucius', which barely rises at all. You can't seriously claim their durability is anything close to equal. Especially not when Lucius faces danger of being instantly killed by a lot of things due to crit.

@Bolded: Actually...like the few times I did.

So you're saying the main point of a magic user is tanking when even physical units of higher Def suffer from the same problem?

No, I never said that, but are you saying being a caster is some magical excuse for having durability so bad you can't exist on the enemy phase? That's definitely not true. Canas existing on the enemy phase while Lucius can't is an advantage, even if both are casters. In regards to actual tanking, Canas is one of the best tanks later on due to Nosferatu.

Exept all of that can be concluded as the following:

- Favoritism

- Boss Abuse

- Personal Experience

This is a debate.

-How is it personal experience? It's been tried and tested that Serra can reach lvl 11-12 if you get Nils to level 7, so me saying 9-10 is not something to complain about. Not PE, fact.

-Favoritism? Favoritism for the Exp rank, sure, there's no reason not to let Serra heal.

-Boss abuse? Perhaps a teeny tiny bit if we go ahead and chance Serra's levels to 11-12, but we don't have to do that.

Most of your arguments seem centered around personal experience though, like Lucius' durability losses being negligible, Canas not killing stuff with Luna later on, etc. Righto, this is a debate, and honestly I feel like I act like it more than you do.

Wow, so Canas is going to the front line, because keeping your magic users in the front or in the middle of the field isn't the most of idealistic plans. I'm just sayin'

Nosferatu Canas has excellent survivability later on. Early on, not so much. Of course, I never did say anything about frontlining, so eh. But you can leave him in the range of one or two enemies without risking him being slaughtered. The same can't be said for Lucius. That's all I'm saying.

You mean having the same Def and slightly better HP is "better"?

Well... Yes. Having the same Def and more HP is better. >_> How is it not? Putting Serra at level 10, it's 6 HP and 1 Def. That actually matters early on.

Lolfavoritism.

Way to take my argument entirely out of contest. I couldn't help but notice you didn't quote my actual reasoning for why she has a level lead. Way to have a fair debate. She has a natural level lead, and she doesn't have to regulate the amount she heals because she doesn't get less Exp for healing at a high level, unlike Marcus who gets less Exp for fighting at a high level. So if she and Priscilla heal the same amount, how is there not a level lead? If anything, you're advocating favoritism by not admitting there's a level lead. Also, upon promotion, she can use high level staves for huge Exp, and her class has a natural Exp boost, so she gets more Exp than other units do from fighting. Again, a level lead is perfectly natural, and denying it is what leans towards favoritism here.

[Junkhead]

Sure, some things 2RKO them both, but Lucius is much less durable and you can't deny this. It is safer for Canas to be in range of enemies on the enemy phase.

What I meant was that it is useless to have +4 base Def when they are facing the SAME trouble of being 2RKO'd, Canas' is worse because in the next chapter after he joins there are alot of enemies who could 1RKO him by doubling, Lucius does not get doubled by them, the only thing Lucius is most likely to get 1RKO'd by are enemy pirates with high Atk, like the one at Canas' joining chapter who wields a killer axe, another one wields a hammer, but Lucius has decent Avo against he latter.

Also, your argument seems to imply that you don't want your casters to see action on the enemy phase? If they can do it, why shouldn't they?

Exactly, Canas is suffering as much when he is being 2RKO'd, it's not like they're going to leave him with enough HP to survive three attacks. Of course, this is all in HHM.

Two-range, yes, and that helps Lucius on the player phase. I was talking about the enemy face.

[My last counter]

Uh, no, Erk, Canas and Renault don't have Luck as bad as Lucius.

No, they don't. But is it important when (Like I said before) aren't being risked of being criticled? Because, like I said before, there aren't many enemies with killer weapons out there...barely some at all.

And how is it important when Lucius will be having around the same Avo at lvl 8 since he looses AS. Canas' Avo still sucks even if he has 8 Luck, his -5 AS is quite bad.

Not even close. But anyways, Renault? Who mentioned him? I said Lucius was the worst out of Canas/Erk/Lucius.

It was the origin of this arguement...I first talked about Renault, you didn't quote my post either so I can't really tell.

14 atk is never enough if the enemy even has 4 Res, and they often do.

No, they don't. Unless they are either magic users, pegasus knights or promoted.

The ones that don't are types like Cavaliers and possibly Pirates/Brigands, who have enough HP to survive anyway.

There are rarely any brigands on HHM, Canas is having trouble with cavaliers too, that's one of the few enemies he has advantage on that Lucius doesn't due to Def. But why are you even fielding him to cavaliers? The first cavaliers he encounters are the ones at Chapter 19, then there are those at Chapter 20, but if you were smart enough you could put Raven or Oswin on the front since it's not like MANY cavaliers making a wall.

There are corsairs...well, same thing. Thing is Canas has trouble against the ones in his joining chapter due to one having a killer axe and then other strong ones, but the most ideal thing to do is go through the north of the map and keep tank units like Oswin or Marcus below. Those are also the only ones you will face until a few chapters later, but Lucius could be promoted by then and will suffer no problems, he will as well build a support with Raven. And the corsairs on the north of the map have sucky enough HP to be onerounded, I'm on Chapter 19X HHM and it's true.

I don't really understand the rest of your post except the Merc part. Good thing Mercs are sort of rare except in chapter 18, where Oswin blocks their progress completely since there's a very nice bottleneck there.

There are two bridges and there is already a mercenary going for your team that can't be avoided unless you block the staitcase close by the right shop.

What I meant about the mercenaries was that he is getting onerounded by them, there is nothing to not get. Lucius isn't because of Spd.

Read the tier list topic. Snipers, Falcoknights, Wyvern Riders, all magical enemies and possibly Paladins and Generals. Canas gets these enemies later on while Erk/Lucius don't. I have actually shown this, so "not in HMM" is not a valid counterargument.

...I just realized Lucius isn't suffering from any trouble when he can at least get a B support with Raven by then, Canas has no reliable support, at least Lucius will gain Atk from his support with Raven and Shine.

Lucius doesn't one-round them either, then, since they have significantly more Res than Def. Lyn and Florina do one-round shamans with Mani Katti and Iron Lance respectively, though.

I didn't exactly say he onerounds shamans, I just forgot to mention them...I know they have more Def than Res and reasonable HP, but Florina is still taking damage by them, especially when her base Res is a little low and when shes gets slowed down by an iron lance.

And no, Florina can't oneround with an iron lance even if she gained +1 Str with some level-ups, I even tried it on normal mode.

As for Lyndis...I mentioned iron weapons, I never said she couldn't with the Mani Katti.

I sure did, because even though Florina also has bad durability, Lucius' is even worse.

I'm just sayin'...you were the one to bring up Lyndis, Sain, Kent, Florina when they were totally irrelevant to this debate.

Lucius is not the best in LHM nor is he even close to being the best, and furthermore LHM is one, small part of a much bigger game.

I never said that though...I just brought up the fact why LHM is part of the game no matter how easy you think it is, otherwise there would no such thing as for example...Chapter 19, it would just be Chapter 9.

I guess it's wrong to say it doesn't matter, though. It's just extremely insignificant because LHM is so easy that taking Lucius off your team won't even be felt in terms of efficiency or difficulty. If anything, letting Kent and Sain rip through everything is faster than having to slowly nudge Lucius along.

I don't really understand this either, to be honest.

That was in refference to you saying Canas doubles most enemies aside from Swordmaster, Heroes and Nomadic Troopers. I mentioned that was a bit untrue since you mentioned he doubles by wielding Luna, sure, he doubles knights/generals but not everything else. That's why you use quotes.

Yeah, Lucius slightly beats Erk offensively (since anima tomes have higher mt it's not as much as you'd think), but Erk is more durable, so it's a tie at best.

Honestly, I that's just saying anima magic is has more Mt, yet you never includes Lucius Mag, which is quite high and is valueble even if anima magic has more Mt.

The durability difference is only +3 Def coming from Erk, +2 Def since Lucius might've already B supported Raven.

Why...? He's a caster. So what, you can just ignore durability? No no. Canas has 4 more Def at first and his HP and Def will rise significantly faster than Lucius', which barely rises at all.

His HP IS higher, but that doesn't mean Lucius barely grows it at all, at promotion yes, Canas will have better Def, but unpromoted they both suffer from being 2RKO'd.

And the main point of a magic user is hurting enemies, prefferably onerounding, which is something that could be done faster when you double enemies rather than just hit hard and let yourself be hurt, so it's prefferable to have a magic user that kills before it gets killed (i.e Lucius).

You can't seriously claim their durability is anything close to equal.

Yes, I can. I was reffering to the point when they are unpromoted, when otherwise Canas has much more durability against physical units.

Especially not when Lucius faces danger of being instantly killed by a lot of things due to crit.

*sigh*

No, I never said that, but are you saying being a caster is some magical excuse for having durability so bad you can't exist on the enemy phase? That's definitely not true.

Nope, never said that either, but most mages not named Canas or Pent will suffer from that problem, because it's not like mages were meant to actually have a decent enemy phase as them.

Canas existing on the enemy phase while Lucius can't is an advantage, even if both are casters. In regards to actual tanking, Canas is one of the best tanks later on due to Nosferatu.

I think that's quite overpplaying it considering Lucius' HP isn't horrid either, he won't suffer from getting doubled either by the time he promotes...even by swordmasters, heroes OR nomadic troopers.

-How is it personal experience? It's been tried and tested that Serra can reach lvl 11-12 if you get Nils to level 7, so me saying 9-10 is not something to complain about. Not PE, fact.

-Favoritism? Favoritism for the Exp rank, sure, there's no reason not to let Serra heal.

-Boss abuse? Perhaps a teeny tiny bit if we go ahead and chance Serra's levels to 11-12, but we don't have to do that.

Yes, it is personal experience. And I am reffering most likely to an effecient run were you are NOT going to waste turns by training a cleric. Oh yeah. Why train Serra to that level? It's just like you said...Lyndis mode is piss easy. One staff is all you need, and by "need" it's not just to train a healer, but to keep your units alive, if you need to you might need 40 heals at most, which is...440 EXP (4 level-ups)

THat is contradicted by you saying Florina CAN oneround shamans with an iron...you actually do require Str gains for her to do that, so that means you train her, the EXP rank is really easy considering you are most likely to use Lyn & Sain too.

Boss abuse is boss abuse, it's not really appropiate for debating because that is your personal choice. (Personal Experience)

Most of your arguments seem centered around personal experience though, like Lucius' durability losses being negligible, Canas not killing stuff with Luna later on, etc. Righto, this is a debate, and honestly I feel like I act like it more than you do.

Lolirony.

Nosferatu Canas has excellent survivability later on. Early on, not so much.

So he actually does better lategame, especially when he looses 6 AS to it lategame?

Of course, I never did say anything about frontlining, so eh.

Nope, you didn't. But it's not like you're having any trouble if you take care of such a fragile unit properly, you're doing it to Serra or any healer in any FE game anyways.

But you can leave him in the range of one or two enemies without risking him being slaughtered. The same can't be said for Lucius. That's all I'm saying.

Yes, you can. But that's not ideal for a magic user either, the best Lucius could do is attack alongside a Raven while he's supporting.

Well... Yes. Having the same Def and more HP is better. >_> How is it not? Putting Serra at level 10, it's 6 HP and 1 Def. That actually matters early on.

Exept we have to reduce that to 5 levels or even 6 considering what I said before. Oh yeah, Serra's HP isn't "hardly" growing is it? Her +2 gain in Def isn't all that of a big deal either, so it's ironic how you're using these points against Lucius, because Serra tends sto suffer some things Lucius does aside from Loluck.

Way to take my argument entirely out of contest. I couldn't help but notice you didn't quote my actual reasoning for why she has a level lead.

[/font]

Yes, I did. Otherwise I wouldn't be wasting my time here, it's not like your quote-pyramiding every arguement either.

She has a natural level lead, and she doesn't have to regulate the amount she heals because she doesn't get less Exp for healing at a high level, unlike Marcus who gets less Exp for fighting at a high level.

Lucius still gains more than 11 EXP per kill though. And it's not a level lead when Serra is 3 or 4 levels below Lucius by the end of LHM. But yeah...since you will most likely use Serra over Priscilla it's understandable how she'll have a level lead over Lucius.

Did you know Prisicilla is actually higher on the tier list than Serra? It's because of this thing called "movility" and not this thing called "favoritism", the latter is totally unviable un a debate.

So if she [serra] and Priscilla heal the same amount, how is there not a level lead?

There IS a level lead between her and Serra, I never mentioned Serra didn't have a level lead over Priscilla.

If anything, you're advocating favoritism by not admitting there's a level lead. Also, upon promotion, she can use high level staves for huge Exp, and her class has a natural Exp boost, so she gets more Exp than other units do from fighting.

Upon promotion? Really? Serra can actually get an A rank in staves before promotion, and there is no S-ranked staff in FE7.

Again, a level lead is perfectly natural, and denying it is what leans towards favoritism here.

LOL.

[HJ.]

What I meant was that it is useless to have +4 base Def when they are facing the SAME trouble of being 2RKO'd, Canas' is worse because in the next chapter after he joins there are alot of enemies who could 1RKO him by doubling, Lucius does not get doubled by them, the only thing Lucius is most likely to get 1RKO'd by are enemy pirates with high Atk, like the one at Canas' joining chapter who wields a killer axe, another one wields a hammer, but Lucius has decent Avo against he latter.

Not really, the Shamans are so slow Canas might actually double them, the Pegs are also super duper slow because they get weighed down, and the Mercenaries are being walled, so they're not a threat. Also, no, Lucius does not have decent Avo at this point. And his Luck is terrible. If there is ANYTHING Lucius wants to avoid like the plague, it's Killer weapons.

Exactly, Canas is suffering as much when he is being 2RKO'd, it's not like they're going to leave him with enough HP to survive three attacks. Of course, this is all in HHM.

But he doesn't, he has 4 more Def and he gets HP and Def faster than Lucius. To suggest their durability is the same is just wrong.

No, they don't. But is it important when (Like I said before) aren't being risked of being criticled? Because, like I said before, there aren't many enemies with killer weapons out there...barely some at all.

And how is it important when Lucius will be having around the same Avo at lvl 8 since he looses AS. Canas' Avo still sucks even if he has 8 Luck, his -5 AS is quite bad.

But Lucius DOES risk being critted. An enemy only needs to have like 8 Skl to be able to crit him, and there are plenty of enemies with weapons that give a tiny crit bonus like reaver-weapons and slim lances. Lucius risks instantly dying against all these things, Canas doesn't.

No, they don't. Unless they are either magic users, pegasus knights or promoted.

Archer (Iron Bow)

13-14 atk, 99-101 hit, 6-7 AS, 3-4 crit; 25-26 HP, 4-5 def, 1-2 res, 12-14 avo

Cavalier (Steel Lance)

19 atk, 84 hit, 5 AS, 3 crit; 28 HP, 8 def, 2 res, 10 avo

Merc (Iron Sword)

12 atk, 116 hit, 12 AS, 6 crit; 27 HP, 5 def, 2 res, 24 avo

Those are from chapter 17, though, where he's not seeing any action. I don't have samples for chapter 18 or 19, but I think it's safe to say their stats will have increased (since there is a general stat increase when you reach Dread Isle), and Lucius didn't kill these guys, so yeah.

There are rarely any brigands on HHM, Canas is having trouble with cavaliers too, that's one of the few enemies he has advantage on that Lucius doesn't due to Def. But why are you even fielding him to cavaliers? The first cavaliers he encounters are the ones at Chapter 19, then there are those at Chapter 20, but if you were smart enough you could put Raven or Oswin on the front since it's not like MANY cavaliers making a wall.

There are corsairs...well, same thing. Thing is Canas has trouble against the ones in his joining chapter due to one having a killer axe and then other strong ones, but the most ideal thing to do is go through the north of the map and keep tank units like Oswin or Marcus below. Those are also the only ones you will face until a few chapters later, but Lucius could be promoted by then and will suffer no problems, he will as well build a support with Raven. And the corsairs on the north of the map have sucky enough HP to be onerounded, I'm on Chapter 19X HHM and it's true.

I never said Canas does one-round Cavaliers or anything, so whatever. He has better durability against them though, so that's cool. Also, Lucius joins HHM at level 8, and you want him promoted a few chapters later after Canas' joining chapter? Yet you still attack me for favoritism... Also, Canas does better against enemies with killer weapons than Lucius does.

There are two bridges and there is already a mercenary going for your team that can't be avoided unless you block the staitcase close by the right shop.

What I meant about the mercenaries was that he is getting onerounded by them, there is nothing to not get. Lucius isn't because of Spd.

Oh dear, one enemy. Have the Cavaliers kill it or something. Hardly makes a difference at all.

...I just realized Lucius isn't suffering from any trouble when he can at least get a B support with Raven by then, Canas has no reliable support, at least Lucius will gain Atk from his support with Raven and Shine.

That 1 point of Atk won't make the difference. Erk, Canas and Lucius are all pretty far from one-rounding Generals, Paladins, Falcoknights, Wyvern Riders and magic users with "regular" weapons.

That was in refference to you saying Canas doubles most enemies aside from Swordmaster, Heroes and Nomadic Troopers. I mentioned that was a bit untrue since you mentioned he doubles by wielding Luna, sure, he doubles knights/generals but not everything else. That's why you use quotes.

Look around. I see plenty of quotes. Also, he does double Snipers, Falcoknights, and magicians with Luna. They get weighed down by their weapons too. I have shown this more than once, albeit not in this topic. Be that as it may, you can't really deny this.

Honestly, I that's just saying anima magic is has more Mt, yet you never includes Lucius Mag, which is quite high and is valueble even if anima magic has more Mt.

The durability difference is only +3 Def coming from Erk, +2 Def since Lucius might've already B supported Raven.

What? I said Lucius wins offense, but the win is narrowed by the superior mt of anima magic. Also, Lucius is B supporting Raven now? But Lucius barely even joined...

His HP IS higher, but that doesn't mean Lucius barely grows it at all, at promotion yes, Canas will have better Def, but unpromoted they both suffer from being 2RKO'd.

And the main point of a magic user is hurting enemies, prefferably onerounding, which is something that could be done faster when you double enemies rather than just hit hard and let yourself be hurt, so it's prefferable to have a magic user that kills before it gets killed (i.e Lucius).

Yes, both will be 2RKO'd by some things, I didn't deny that. But Canas will survive longer against some enemies since the HP and Def lead expands.

Yes, I can. I was reffering to the point when they are unpromoted, when otherwise Canas has much more durability against physical units.

Yes, the gap is smaller at first, but there's still a gap.

*sigh*

Sigh indeed.

Nope, never said that either, but most mages not named Canas or Pent will suffer from that problem, because it's not like mages were meant to actually have a decent enemy phase as them.

Then this is a clear-cut advantage for Canas and Pent. Honestly, the fact that you, in your head, have created some sort of extremely rigid performance pattern casters must follow, means very little to other people, because being able to have good enemy phase > not being able to have good enemy phase. No Matter Who You Are

I think that's quite overpplaying it considering Lucius' HP isn't horrid either, he won't suffer from getting doubled either by the time he promotes...even by swordmasters, heroes OR nomadic troopers.

Actually yes, Lucius has one of the worst HP stats in the game. He also has one of the worst Def stats. Also, he has 17 Spd when he promotes. Swordmasters would double the shit out of that. Hardly matters, though.

Yes, it is personal experience. And I am reffering most likely to an effecient run were you are NOT going to waste turns by training a cleric. Oh yeah. Why train Serra to that level? It's just like you said...Lyndis mode is piss easy. One staff is all you need, and by "need" it's not just to train a healer, but to keep your units alive, if you need to you might need 40 heals at most, which is...440 EXP (4 level-ups)

THat is contradicted by you saying Florina CAN oneround shamans with an iron...you actually do require Str gains for her to do that, so that means you train her, the EXP rank is really easy considering you are most likely to use Lyn & Sain too.

Boss abuse is boss abuse, it's not really appropiate for debating because that is your personal choice. (Personal Experience)

Why would I not have Serra heal whenever she can? Even though I don't NEED to heal 1 HP every turn, doing it gives me more Exp without slowing down my progress. That is not wasting turns. You, however, are suggesting blatant Exp waste.

What in the world does Florina have to do with Serra? Serra draws Exp from her own pool that no other units can take Exp from, she's not stealing the Exp from other units like Florina is. There's no reason for Serra not to heal because it can never cause any damage, only benefits.

Okay, so then she joins at level 10 instead of level 12.

Lolirony.

Nosferatu Canas has excellent survivability later on. Early on, not so much.

So he actually does better lategame, especially when he looses 6 AS to it lategame?

Irony? You're the one taking my arguments out of context and ignoring the logic in the ones you actually do quote. Not only that, but you're being a pretty huge dick about it. Lolfail. See, I can do it too~

6 AS doesn't cause him not to get doubled, it just causes him not to double. So yes, Nosferatu is fine for tanking purposes, it's not like you're going to keep it equipped on the enemy phase.

Nope, you didn't. But it's not like you're having any trouble if you take care of such a fragile unit properly, you're doing it to Serra or any healer in any FE game anyways.

Not sure what you're getting at here.

Yes, you can. But that's not ideal for a magic user either, the best Lucius could do is attack alongside a Raven while he's supporting.

Again, your personal opinion on how to use magicians doesn't really matter.

Exept we have to reduce that to 5 levels or even 6 considering what I said before. Oh yeah, Serra's HP isn't "hardly" growing is it? Her +2 gain in Def isn't all that of a big deal either, so it's ironic how you're using these points against Lucius, because Serra tends sto suffer some things Lucius does aside from Loluck.

Way to take my argument entirely out of contest. I couldn't help but notice you didn't quote my actual reasoning for why she has a level lead.

[/font]

Yes, I did. Otherwise I wouldn't be wasting my time here, it's not like your quote-pyramiding every arguement either.

No, it's level 10 or level 9 now. You're right though, Serra's HP and Def is also kinda bad (though better than Lucius'), but her Luck makes a HUGE difference.

Lucius still gains more than 11 EXP per kill though. And it's not a level lead when Serra is 3 or 4 levels below Lucius by the end of LHM. But yeah...since you will most likely use Serra over Priscilla it's understandable how she'll have a level lead over Lucius.

Did you know Prisicilla is actually higher on the tier list than Serra? It's because of this thing called "movility" and not this thing called "favoritism", the latter is totally unviable un a debate.

Lucius also doesn't get a kill every turn, unlike Serra who does get a heal every turn. Also, Lucius ends LHM at level 8... Even if we put Serra at level 7, that's 1 more level. Of course, in reality, Serra ends LHM several levels higher and then has many chapters in LHM to get an even bigger lead. Honestly, Serra can be like 15-17 by the time Lucius joins as a measly level 8 unit. Or a level 13-15 unit if we're being especially biased against Serra for no reason. Huge level lead either way. Nice job trying to act smug while botching the spelling of mobility, by the way. I also don't think Priscilla is better than Serra, and honestly, I could care less if some people here think so. Serra is a contender for the best unit in the game, lol.

Upon promotion? Really? Serra can actually get an A rank in staves before promotion, and there is no S-ranked staff in FE7.

Okay, so? Nothing happens if Serra S-ranks staves, because she wouldn't need to use S-rank Light magic anyway.

LOL.

I don't see what's so funny, unless you're laughing at your own pathetic attempts to feign superiority. Anyway, I think I'ma call this argument quits here, because I feel we're making no progress at all and I still think you're ignoring the logic of a lot of my arguments, as well as twisting my arguments around in certain cases.

[Junkhead]

I'm just going to convlude by the little reasons why Lucius is better and get this over with:

A "good" unit is considered by their usefulness throughout the whole game, not just middle or endgame, Lucius comes quite early and has much better training due to being able to oneround and double most enemies that aren't mercenaries or shamans.

It's not just his combat what makes him good, it's also his usefulness around midgame where he promotes, he gains a C in staves and that's actually quite decent...Canas comes with an E rank. And I know Canas is tankier, but that's the many reasons you and a few others back there considered him better, because he can survive more attacks, being good just there doesn't make you better, you also mentioned the use of Luna and Nosferatu but didn't considered it's huge AS loss and even said he will be doubling reliably. Nope, he isn't.

It's not that I am ignoring your logic, it's just that it's already gotten irritating where it got to a point where I have nothing else to say because I am out of arguements to make you understand Lucius is good and not one of the worst like you think so. You really DID apply personal experience when reffering to Serra many times, and that's just because you like her, that's very easy, I'm actually considering averages and calculating to what level Lucius could get without favoritism.

Upper Mid-

Pent

Lucius

Harken

Dorcas

Geitz

Legault

Lyn

Fiora

-Lower Mid-

Dart

Hawkeye

Canas

See? Erk shouldn't even make it higher than Lucius due to having slower supports +3 Def once promoted, he only wins by a little bit of Spd, they both cap it anyways...Lucius also has more staff utility, Erk with an Elfire has even less Mt than Luciu with a Lightining tome, he also doesn't loose AS.

And by the way, it's your fault for getting into this, notice the tiltle? "Lucius Appreciation Thread"?

You shouldn't have gone all "I think Lucius is one of the worst magic users", wrong topic buddy, and then you came up that Serra was better because your favortism caught up. Yeah.

Edited February 12, 2010 by Alan Rainsworth

[HJ.]

Are you Ayanami in disguise?

A good unit does not have to be amazing throughout the entire game. Lucius is better early on, Canas is better later on. In that case there's no clear winner, so you have to go in-depth with things. For all HHM intents and purposes, Lucius joins one chapter AFTER Canas, because him being brought to 17x is arguable at best, and he's not getting any action in chapter 17. Also, I posted actual numbers in my previous post that show non-mage/peg enemies Lucius doesn't kill, but you're still ignoring that? Ugh.

I said he doubles certain enemy types with Luna because he DOES. I posted the numbers to show this before and referred you there to check them out because I am not going to track down the comparisons or redo them from scratch again. It is FACT that Canas, with Luna, doubles the enemies I brought up You just keep saying "no, he isn't" because it's the only thing you can do to mask Lucius' loss.

Also, you saying I'm applying personal experience and favoritism to Serra because I like her is the most ridiculous and ironic thing yet to come out of your mouth. I don't think it's possible to BE a bigger character fanboy than you are being with Lucius right now. You're the one who's been consistently denying the facts and numbers, so you trying to claim some sort of high ground now is, quite frankly, ridiculous.

[Inui]

I believe Canas's joining situation is very overhyped. For instance, if Priscilla heals with Mend every single turn possible after she joins going by the HHM turn requirements, she's still at a lower level than Canas when Canas joins and he actually has use on the enemy phase due to being able to eat 2-3 hits without instantly dying, unlike Lucius and even Erk in many cases, and actually countering in the first place which Priscilla can't even do yet.

Sure, he's mediocre when he joins, but attacking and countering at 1~2 range and having enough HP/Def to not instantly die from two enemies makes him not hard to raise. By the time you leave the Dread Isle, you can have a promoted Canas. Promoted Canas = gdlk.

[HJ.]

Oh right, and yeah, this is the Lucius Appreciation Thread, but I see tons of Canas/Erk-hate too, and I like Canas/Erk. You can't really fault me for wanting to defend them, especially when you seem to encourage discussion.

[Junkhead]

Are you Ayanami in disguise?

Yes, yes I am, because you are being so dense it's actually funny.

A good unit does not have to be amazing throughout the entire game. Lucius is better early on, Canas is better later on.

Nope, he isn't, in fact, Lucius is even better as his levels go up, his Mag is actually high enough to kill, he doesn't loose AS and doesn't really require a powerful tome to be good.

For all HHM intents and purposes, Lucius joins one chapter AFTER Canas, because him being brought to 17x is arguable at best, and he's not getting any action in chapter 17.

Yeah, because 18 comes before 17, yeah...

Yeah, because Canas is being useful at his joining chapter, the chapter after that and the next chapter, yeah...cool arguement.

Also, I posted actual numbers in my previous post that show non-mage/peg enemies Lucius doesn't kill, but you're still ignoring that? Ugh.

Yeah, like you are ignoring Lucius could do better and actually double more enemies?

I said he doubles certain enemy types with Luna because he DOES.

He can't double wyerns or snipers with just 10 AS.

I posted the numbers to show this before and referred you there to check them out because I am not going to track down the comparisons or redo them from scratch again.

Then good luck wanting to have a good arguement.

It is FACT that Canas, with Luna, doubles the enemies I brought up You just keep saying "no, he isn't" because it's the only thing you can do to mask Lucius' loss.

When I was comparing them promoted I was comparing Erk, Lucius & Canas at 20/6, Canas would have 12 AS with Luna equipped, that's just 17 Atk, it isn't too much. What bothers me is that many tend to hype him only because of this...his use of Luna. Oh yeah, there's nothing to weep in shame of when Lucius has 26 Atk at the same level with a LIGHTNING...to do the same ammount of damage Canas does with Luna (Which is less), the physical enemies would have to have 9 Res, and they don't even reach that, Lucius will also have +6 AS lead, so it's kinda dumb that you forgot the fact Lucius is as good with an average tome.

Also, you saying I'm applying personal experience and favoritism to Serra because I like her is the most ridiculous and ironic thing yet to come out of your mouth. I don't think it's possible to BE a bigger character fanboy than you are being with Lucius right now. You're the one who's been consistently denying the facts and numbers, so you trying to claim some sort of high ground now is, quite frankly, ridiculous.

Yes, because I include averages and also part of the numbers you game me? (i.e lvl 8 Lucius)

Because I am actually winning this you are getting as dense as to say the same things I said to you hours ago? Is there something more you would like to say?

Because I don't see how getting Serra to lvl 10-12 isn't favoritism, it is also contradicting since you seem have said before you bothered about the EXP rank. Would you honestly say such things if you were to waste so many turns training a healer and a bard? Neat.

When Canas joins and he actually has use on the enemy phase due to being able to eat 2-3 hits without instantly dying, unlike Lucius and even Erk in many cases, and actually countering in the first place which Priscilla can't even do yet.

Of course he can't, he gets 2RKO'd by every pirate, I said it before, he has 5 Def, most characters that aren't Hector or Oswin get 2RKO'd.

Sure, he's mediocre when he joins, but attacking and countering at 1~2 range and having enough HP/Def to not instantly die from two enemies makes him not hard to raise.

Yes, he is, he gains little EXP and won't double anything, that's what makes him hard to raise.

By the time you leave the Dread Isle, you can have a promoted Canas. Promoted Canas = gdlk.

And later you talk about overhyped...you're doing it right now! You can't get him to promote in just five chapters when he is only being useful on Chapter 18, and a little bit on Chapter 19 & Chapter 20, he is more useful on Chapter 19x because there are a few knights and mages he can take on.

But otherwise not even Lucius is useful on Chapter 17x when there isn't too much to kill but rather a bunch of corsairs whom he can't double, Lucius can.

Edited February 12, 2010 by Alan Rainsworth

[HJ.]

Oh wow. You are so dense and hypocritical I'm lost for words. Also, you clearly do not have your fact straight, at all. A level 16/2 Canas has 10 AS with Luna, and he's at a much higher level later on. This also proves you don't look at averages at all, lol. So good job ruining your credibility and looking like an idiot. Trust me, you're better off sticking to writing homoerotic Lucius fanfics.

[Junkhead]

You know, it's easier to insult and not give a good arguement, that proves how much of an idiot YOU are, you know, since you actually just been owned by someone younger than you and has had his first debate you must be butthurt after this, but don't worry, I looked at averages everytime, I used this website as a very richh source, like averages...

Oh, and Canas' Spd AS at 16/2 is 10, yeah, that's good? Ahm.

[Momo]

...Trust me, you're better off sticking to writing homoerotic Lucius fanfics.

I imagine Kristoph saying this and it makes you look like a gigantic hypocrite.

[HJ.]

You know, it's easier to insult and not give a good arguement, that proves how much of an idiot YOU are, you know, since you actually just been owned by someone younger than you and has had his first debate you must be butthurt after this, but don't worry, I looked at averages everytime, I used this website as a very richh source, like averages...

Oh, and Canas' Spd AS at 16/2 is 10, yeah, that's good? Ahm.

Keep telling yourself that. You probably need the self-esteem of "winning" an online argument more than I do, considering the things you resort to to actually win it.

[Inui]

Of course he can't, he gets 2RKO'd by every pirate, I said it before, he has 5 Def, most characters that aren't Hector or Oswin get 2RKO'd.

Dang one class kills him in two hits and they have the least Hit and Evd of every enemy! Not a big deal. Other stuff doesn't bother him at all. He can peck at some enemies and not get countered and then double enemy Shamans and the weighed down Pegs in the next chapter and then rape Pirates again, etc.

Yes, he is, he gains little EXP and won't double anything, that's what makes him hard to raise.

What? Chances are, he's your lowest level unit, and he can gain two levels alone killing some pirates in 17x that won't dodge his hits and take like 15 dmg from him.

And later you talk about overhyped...you're doing it right now! You can't get him to promote in just five chapters when he is only being useful on Chapter 18, and a little bit on Chapter 19 & Chapter 20, he is more useful on Chapter 19x because there are a few knights and mages he can take on.

But otherwise not even Lucius is useful on Chapter 17x when there isn't too much to kill but rather a bunch of corsairs whom he can't double, Lucius can.[/color]

He starts at level 8. He gains lots of EXP when he kills and can do a little bit on the enemy phase. Why can't he be 15/0 at the Dragons Gate and promote?

[HJ.]

I don't see why you bother at this point. He's already shown that he ignores the actual facts with amazing arguments like "no, Lucius does kill those enemies later on thanks to higher Mag" and "Canas doesn't double" despite me telling him otherwise twice. >_>

[Inui]

I think Lucius is better than Canas. By a tier? Hell no. Too many tier lists throw Canas into a tier below Erk/Lucius even though they are similar and Canas overtakes both later on due to being a baller with Nosferatu and Luna.

[Junkhead]

Other stuff doesn't bother him at all. He can peck at some enemies and not get countered and then double enemy Shamans and the weighed down Pegs in the next chapter and then rape Pirates again, etc.

Yeah...shamans are quite slow, and yeah, he can kill peggies with heavy weapons, but the problem is...there are a group of peggies coming from the south of the map, he is most likely to kill some, but the problem is he could be killed too, they are wielding steel lances and have around 9 Skill, that actually hits and hard.

What? Chances are, he's your lowest level unit, and he can gain two levels alone killing some pirates in 17x that won't dodge his hits and take like 15 dmg from him.

Actually...there are three pirates with high Atk there, they bear a killer axe, a hammer, and a steel axe, he is most likely to be able to dodge the latter two, but the killer axe just rapes anyone with low luck, and that killer axe wielder CAN touch Canas, even Oswin is at trouble on that chapter of HHM.

He starts at level 8. He gains lots of EXP when he kills and can do a little bit on the enemy phase. Why can't he be 15/0 at the Dragons Gate and promote?

Because he seems to underleveled to promote...especially looking at his Spd & Mag, his Def won't be too special at that level either.

I think Lucius is better than Canas. By a tier? Hell no. Too many tier lists throw Canas into a tier below Erk/Lucius even though they are similar and Canas overtakes both later on due to being a baller with Nosferatu and Luna.

Actually, Inui...he does not when he gets slowed down, yeah, he mentioned I ignored facts I even took into consideration, like Lucius actually being as good or better with an AVERAGE tome, no need of any tome that weights him down by a ridiculous ammount...his Spd is already below-average. Oh yeah, staff utility is great.

Edited February 12, 2010 by Alan Rainsworth

[HJ.]

Canas gains 4 AS and staves upon promoting, there's no reason to wait for him to be level 20. Also, in regards to that durability argument, Lucius is faring even worse, so I don't see the point of it. Oops, I'm debating again.

Edited February 12, 2010 by TheloveableHJKun

[Inui]

Yeah...shamans are quite slow, and yeah, he can kill peggies with heavy weapons, but the problem is...there are a group of peggies coming from the south of the map, he is most likely to kill some, but the problem is he could be killed too, they are wielding steel lances and have around 9 Skill, that actually hits and hard.

Thank God for Marcus, Kent, Sain, Low1n, Osw1n and other awesome d00ds being around that slaughter said Pegs. Canas can just kill one and the others can rape the rest. No big deal. It's not like Canas has to bait them in. The AI in this game blows.

Actually...there are three pirates with high Atk there, they bear a killer axe, a hammer, and a steel axe, he is most likely to be able to dodge the latter two, but the killer axe just rapes anyone with low luck, and that killer axe wielder CAN touch Canas, even Oswin is at trouble on that chapter of HHM.

Canas should never be attacked by such enemies. Raven, Guy, and Marcus are pretty much the only d00ds that should try to fight them. Bait them in with Raven/Guy/Marcus and then Canas can finish one off for 60 EXP, lol.

Because he seems to underleveled to promote...especially looking at his Spd & Mag, his Def won't be too special at that level either.

He may seem like it, but it's not what happens in practice. Just go ahead and use him. If he manages to score a hit or a kill every turn, he'll be 15/0 at the Dragons Gate and ready for +4 AS and staves.

Actually, Inui...he does not when he gets slowed down, yeah, he mentioned I ignored facts I even took into consideration, like Lucius actually being as good or better with an AVERAGE tome, no need of any tome that weights him down by a ridiculous ammount...his Spd is already below-average. Oh yeah, staff utility is great.

Does not what? Overtake Erk and Lucius later? His concrete durability destroys theirs and he's immortal with Nosferatu. He doubles almost everything with Flux. In Cog of Destiny and against other magic users in general, he crushes them in offense with Luna. Lucius can hit a VoD Valk for double 13's or something while Canas can hit them for 20+ with a +20 Crit tome and since they lose 4 AS from Elfire he can even double, and he does double Druids, Sages, and Bishops. He also rapes Sonia and Limstella.