Ewan and Amelia

[RNG Princess]

She's easier to train for me because there are no flying enemies when she joins, and there are a few healers she can use slim or iron lance for her advantage and she comes with speedwing. Ewan's chapter has some gargoyles and there are no easy to kill enemies, at least not for him.

Him as druid is ok for staves but so is Amelia as a paladdin, since she'd be able to use brave lance.

Edited December 18, 2009 by Queen_Elincia

[Kriemhild]

If Druid Ewan is using Anima Magic, Paladin Amelia should be able to use swords. Since she's going the Cavalier route, she has plenty of time to raise her sword level. Paladin Amelia can then start using Killing Edges. No one would be losing any speed, although Amelia would have higher Speed stat. Thunder gives a measly 5 Crit while Killing Edge gives 30. Besides, Amelia would have more Skill anyway.

Amelia's stats also beat Ewan's in everything except Str/Mag and Res. Ewan WILL dish out more damage but Amelia will still crit more frequently than he does. She is also pretty durable, allowing her to go out to the enemy, take a few hits, kill some people back, and then run back to the healer with 8 Mov. Ewan can't be used like that. He can kill an enemy, yes, but you'll have to make sure there aren't enough enemies to kill him in the Enemy Phase. He doesn't have 8 Movement either.

[Candlejack]

Okay, time to dissect this.

She's easier to train for me

PEMN

because there are no flying enemies when she joins,

K, there's only archers, various status priests, horsemen, etc. At least Gargoyles have pathetic RES.

and there are a few healers she can use slim or iron lance

You'll have at least Moulder and Natasha, possibly Lute/Artur, to use so I guess this is fine, but why are you even using two healers for one unit anyway? She must suck pretty badly if she needs TWO healers.

Him as druid is ok for staves

Not to mention the Anima he gets. Summoner gets staves too as well as Summon.

but so is Amelia as a paladdin, since she'd be able to use brave lance.

Since supporters REFUSE to argue Amelia GK I'll just go with this:

Amelia Paladin gets a lolable STR cap (23), an equally lolable DEF cap (24), a relatively low SPD cap (25), and with Amelia's growths, she won't even reach SPD until 10/20/16, even assuming you're going Cav-> Paladin which is a bad idea in the first place.

and she gets weighed down by Brave Lance, to which she loses a rather large 7 AS to. So, she can't quad (Unlike 99% of the other lance users IN THE GAME)... actually, she gets weighed down by everything except lolSlim Lance, Iron Lance, lolDragonspear, and Killer Lance.

Things Amelia GK have over Amelia Paladin:

+1 Con (So she isn't nearly as weighed down by 90% of lances)

Amazing promotional gains (Better than Paladin's actually)

Axes (For SOME power behind Amelia's punch)

Better caps overall (Paladin wins in SKL and RES)

So yeah.

for her advantage and she comes with speedwing.

Tethys comes with a Goddess Icon, so that's a definite plus, amirite? WRONG. Amelia gives you a Speedwing and that is IT. You'd best use it on somebody, what's the word, USABLE? At least on Ewan, since he can deal SOME damage.

Ewan's chapter has some gargoyles and there are no easy to kill enemies, at least not for him.

Gargoyles have shit RES. And besides, aren't we babying these two anyway? If we put Amelia up against Gargoyles, she'd get RAPED. Also, Ewan comes with a Dracoshield on Ephraim Route and an Energy Ring on Eirika Route, so he can improve two very bad stats for him to SLIGHTLY increase performance.

EDIT:

She is also pretty durable, allowing her to go out to the enemy, take a few hits, kill some people back, and then run back to the healer with 8 Mov.

Average DEF being 4.7 for a Cavalier isn't durable in the slightest. Actually, her DEF remains terrible for the entire Cav-> Pally route. 17.1 at 10/20/20? Ephraim reaches that by 20/10. Oh, not to mention 9 STR when everyone should be getting 11/12 STR isn't too good. By the time you get her too, you'll be facing monsters which, I'll be frank, rip her apart. Even the Mogalls.

Ewan can't be used like that. He can kill an enemy, yes, but you'll have to make sure there aren't enough enemies to kill him in the Enemy Phase. He doesn't have 8 Movement either.

1RKOing > 3RKOing. Since Amelia won't double shit and Crits are very unlikely until the time you get her to 10/4. And Ewan deals MUCH more damage than Amelia anyway due to RES. Also, access to Staves and Anima magic means he'll become more useful (If even slightly), more so than Amelia's sorry ass.

Thunder gives a measly 5 Crit while Killing Edge gives 30. Besides, Amelia would have more Skill anyway.

Are you REALLY comparing a D level weapon with 8 MT to a C level weapon with 9 MT that will DEFINITELY go to Joshua/Eirika/anyone else that will actually use it? WHAT A FAIR COMPETITION. While we're at it, let's have 10/20/20 Paladin Amelia fight base level Ewan with Fire? SOUNDS PERFECTLY FAIR TO ME.

Edited December 18, 2009 by Robert of Lenster

[RNG Princess]

Whats PEMN?

I meant there are enemy healers for her to attack or kill in that chapter she is recruited:). They both require baby sitting but unlike the gargoyles to Ewan the enemy priests can't hurt her. Ewan can hurt and double or try to hit the low res gargoyles but its likely they'll counter him if they carry a javelin, and if they don't in the enemy phase they can easily reach him and one hit kill him unless he's shielded.

Enemy archers can be easily cornered or weakened for either. During his absence there is plenty of those, thats what I fed her in my game meaning theres more resources for her to level up without being at much risk of getting killed like he would, by the time chapter 12 is on she can be a stable unit and he'd have to go through a harder babying process because of the stronger enemy units and less weak enemy units available making him much harder to train compared to her, and even though his caps look much more promising her utility by his starting point is higher than his (if she's babied). I doubt either of them can kill enemies without some babying.

Is Ewan even able to do some scratching to any monster in his recruiting chapter?

Edited December 18, 2009 by Queen_Elincia

[Sho Minamimoto]

Ewan, Anima+Staves> swords (How I hate to admit that).

[Anouleth]

Whats PEMN?

I meant there are enemy healers for her to attack or kill in that chapter she is recruited:). They both require baby sitting but unlike the gargoyles to Ewan the enemy priests can't hurt her. Ewan can hurt and double or try to hit the low res gargoyles but its likely they'll counter him if they carry a javelin, and if they don't in the enemy phase they can easily reach him and one hit kill him unless he's shielded.

Enemy archers can be easily cornered or weakened for either. During his absence there is plenty of those, thats what I fed her in my game meaning theres more resources for her to level up without being at much risk of getting killed like he would, by the time chapter 12 is on she can be a stable unit and he'd have to go through a harder babying process because of the stronger enemy units and less weak enemy units available making him much harder to train compared to her, and even though his caps look much more promising her utility by his starting point is higher than his (if she's babied). I doubt either of them can kill enemies without some babying.

Is Ewan even able to do some scratching to any monster in his recruiting chapter?

PEMN stands for!

Personal

Experience

Means

Nothing

In other words, nobody cares if your Ewan/Amelia/Knoll came out great!

(I mean, personally, I always go Eph. Route, in which case Amelia>Ewan, since she actually has a chance at surviving C13. Ewan would probably need a Angelic Robe to do the same.)

[BK-201]

Reason for the conditions.

-Eirika Route was agreed upon by Amelia. It doesn't matter if she is great in Ephraim mode.

-Amelia going to Paladin was the decision of Amelia. I just wanted to prove Druid Ewan was better.

[Candlejack]

Reason for the conditions.

-Eirika Route was agreed upon by Amelia. It doesn't matter if she is great in Ephraim mode.

-Amelia going to Paladin was the decision of Amelia. I just wanted to prove Druid Ewan was better.

To be fair, Paladin!Amelia and Druid!Ewan have ups and downs, but yeah, Druid!Ewan wins.

BUT. GK Amelia might just be better than Druid!Ewan.

[BK-201]

She failed to note that and chose Paladin. You might be right but for all purposes of this argument we will assume that Amelia becomes a paladin.(assuming she can even get there :P)

[Rewjeo]

Why is Ewan going Druid? Summons>Anima magic. Especially with how bad his combat would be with those low levels tomes for the last chapter(s) of the game.

[RNG Princess]

So are you comparing their classes or the characters and their classes?

Either way Amelia's recruit class starts with E in lances if she promotes to cavalier/knight she continues using lances and upgrades to a mininum of D if she's still on E.

Ewan's pupil class starts with E in fire, but if he promotes to shaman he'll start with D in dark and whatever he gained in anima he can't use as a Shaman, and with D rank weapon he'd be able to use Flux only.

Amelia with a D rank can use a heavy spear, horseslayer, and steel lance. That would be her minimum weapon rank, but her weapon gains and level up won't be absent or a waste in any of her promotions because she always has lances in each of her classes. He'd have to start from scratch, while she's already on her way up.

[BK-201]

So are you comparing their classes or the characters and their classes?

Either way Amelia's recruit class starts with E in lances if she promotes to cavalier/knight she continues using lances and upgrades to a mininum of D if she's still on E.

Ewan's pupil class starts with E in fire, but if he promotes to shaman he'll start with D in dark and whatever he gained in anima he can't use as a Shaman, and with D rank weapon he'd be able to use Flux only.

Amelia with a D rank can use a heavy spear, horseslayer, and steel lance. That would be her minimum weapon rank, but her weapon gains and level up won't be absent or a waste in any of her promotions because she always has lances in each of her classes. He'd have to start from scratch, while she's already on her way up.

Sorry to say with the promos that are listed this isn't true.

Ewan will gain anima back as a druid.

We all know that Amelia can wield all those weapons without being weighed down./sarcasm

Heavy Spear- (-5) speed

Horseslayer- (-4) speed

Steel Lance- (-3) speed

Ewan with Flux.

Flux- (-1) speed

Lets compare MTs.

Flux has 7 MT.

Horseslayer has 7 MT with much better candidates.

Heavy Spear has 9 MT with much better candidates.

Steel Lance has 10 MT.

Those weapons can be used much more effectively by units not named Amelia.

Flux with Ewan has a total of 16 MT.

Amelia with Horseslayer has a total of 14.

With Heavy Spear, 16 MT.

With Steal Lance, 17 MT.

Not only is she getting weighed down by more she does roughly equal damage and Ewan targets resistance which is usually dramatically lower.

Not to mention they have roughly the same speed at 10/1.

Ewan has 8 AS with Flux.

Amelia has 4 AS with a heavy spear, 5 with a horseslayer, and 6 with a steel lance.

Ewan will also have more avoid due to that.

Amelia's 1 luck higher won't do anything when compared with 3 less speed at best.

She can't do head on fights that well, which is obvious.

We are comparing the characters with the respective listed class.

[Allan's Aokage]

-Amelia going to Paladin was the decision of Amelia. I just wanted to prove Druid Ewan was better.

Wait wait wait. Let's take the logic you've been using in this thread (namely, best Ewan > worst Amelia) and apply it to something else.

Britain in 2000CE > America in 0CE.

Therefore, Britain > America.

Spot the destruction of logic! =O

Give me a word on how this isn't fair, and you're proving anyone who dislikes your train of thought right. I decided both of these, so nobody else can change them. Something seem unfair? Tough luck n.n To summarise this in a less prickly way, you can't refute the arguments that General!Amelia > Druid!Ewan with "lolno amelia said paladin not general SO THERE", since it's hilariously unfair. Compare General!Amelia and Druid/Summoner!Ewan if you want to make it more "fair."

Whatever, this is silly. They're practically identical anyway, since there's no way they'll ever be of much use. ^^;

Edited December 19, 2009 by Allan's Aokage

[Candlejack]

Whatever, this is silly. They're practically identical anyway, since there's no way they'll ever be of much use. ^^;

I only wish people stopped hating on Knoll...

[BK-201]

-Amelia going to Paladin was the decision of Amelia. I just wanted to prove Druid Ewan was better.

Wait wait wait. Let's take the logic you've been using in this thread (namely, best Ewan > worst Amelia) and apply it to something else.

Britain in 2000CE > America in 0CE.

Therefore, Britain > America.

Spot the destruction of logic! =O

Give me a word on how this isn't fair, and you're proving anyone who dislikes your train of thought right. I decided both of these, so nobody else can change them. Something seem unfair? Tough luck n.n To summarise this in a less prickly way, you can't refute the arguments that General!Amelia > Druid!Ewan with "lolno amelia said paladin not general SO THERE", since it's hilariously unfair. Compare General!Amelia and Druid/Summoner!Ewan if you want to make it more "fair."

Whatever, this is silly. They're practically identical anyway, since there's no way they'll ever be of much use. ^^;

In a real debate which this is a small scale terrible representation of, the other side chooses the promotions that character will take. Amelia chose Paladin. So we will go by that. If you read it more carefully it said AMELIA CHOSE THE PALADIN ROUTE, not me. I don't see how this is an unfair decision made by ME.

[RNG Princess]

So are you comparing their classes or the characters and their classes?

Either way Amelia's recruit class starts with E in lances if she promotes to cavalier/knight she continues using lances and upgrades to a mininum of D if she's still on E.

Ewan's pupil class starts with E in fire, but if he promotes to shaman he'll start with D in dark and whatever he gained in anima he can't use as a Shaman, and with D rank weapon he'd be able to use Flux only.

Amelia with a D rank can use a heavy spear, horseslayer, and steel lance. That would be her minimum weapon rank, but her weapon gains and level up won't be absent or a waste in any of her promotions because she always has lances in each of her classes. He'd have to start from scratch, while she's already on her way up.

Sorry to say with the promos that are listed this isn't true.

Ewan will gain anima back as a druid.

We all know that Amelia can wield all those weapons without being weighed down./sarcasm

Heavy Spear- (-5) speed

Horseslayer- (-4) speed

Steel Lance- (-3) speed

Ewan with Flux.

Flux- (-1) speed

Lets compare MTs.

Flux has 7 MT.

Horseslayer has 7 MT with much better candidates.

Heavy Spear has 9 MT with much better candidates.

Steel Lance has 10 MT.

Those weapons can be used much more effectively by units not named Amelia.

Flux with Ewan has a total of 16 MT.

Amelia with Horseslayer has a total of 14.

With Heavy Spear, 16 MT.

With Steal Lance, 17 MT.

Not only is she getting weighed down by more she does roughly equal damage and Ewan targets resistance which is usually dramatically lower.

Not to mention they have roughly the same speed at 10/1.

Ewan has 8 AS with Flux.

Amelia has 4 AS with a heavy spear, 5 with a horseslayer, and 6 with a steel lance.

Ewan will also have more avoid due to that.

Amelia's 1 luck higher won't do anything when compared with 3 less speed at best.

She can't do head on fights that well, which is obvious.

We are comparing the characters with the respective listed class.

Ewan can't use anima as a shaman, so he'd have to wait until he's a druid to use anima again in which his anima gains as pupil is suspended when he promotes to Shaman. Its also much harder getting Ewan to promote to Druid due to harder enemies in chapter 12 and above, unless you're using tower lol. In chapter 12 enemy characters can easily reach him like the eye things and gargoyles, in chapter 13 he can get easily get ballistaed.

He also has much lower defense causing him to need more baby sitting. He does not have competition for flux but he has no access to anything else until he gets C rank, and she has access to a lot of weapons :3. I like him a little bit more because he can promote to one of two rare classes in which only two characters can get to (without hacking the game), but she's much easier to raise because of the move and sword gains as a cavalier, higher defense, and weaker enemies to feed her exp during his absence.

I feel like playing Sacred Stones again

Edited December 20, 2009 by Queen_Elincia

[BK-201]

So are you comparing their classes or the characters and their classes?

Either way Amelia's recruit class starts with E in lances if she promotes to cavalier/knight she continues using lances and upgrades to a mininum of D if she's still on E.

Ewan's pupil class starts with E in fire, but if he promotes to shaman he'll start with D in dark and whatever he gained in anima he can't use as a Shaman, and with D rank weapon he'd be able to use Flux only.

Amelia with a D rank can use a heavy spear, horseslayer, and steel lance. That would be her minimum weapon rank, but her weapon gains and level up won't be absent or a waste in any of her promotions because she always has lances in each of her classes. He'd have to start from scratch, while she's already on her way up.

Sorry to say with the promos that are listed this isn't true.

Ewan will gain anima back as a druid.

We all know that Amelia can wield all those weapons without being weighed down./sarcasm

Heavy Spear- (-5) speed

Horseslayer- (-4) speed

Steel Lance- (-3) speed

Ewan with Flux.

Flux- (-1) speed

Lets compare MTs.

Flux has 7 MT.

Horseslayer has 7 MT with much better candidates.

Heavy Spear has 9 MT with much better candidates.

Steel Lance has 10 MT.

Those weapons can be used much more effectively by units not named Amelia.

Flux with Ewan has a total of 16 MT.

Amelia with Horseslayer has a total of 14.

With Heavy Spear, 16 MT.

With Steal Lance, 17 MT.

Not only is she getting weighed down by more she does roughly equal damage and Ewan targets resistance which is usually dramatically lower.

Not to mention they have roughly the same speed at 10/1.

Ewan has 8 AS with Flux.

Amelia has 4 AS with a heavy spear, 5 with a horseslayer, and 6 with a steel lance.

Ewan will also have more avoid due to that.

Amelia's 1 luck higher won't do anything when compared with 3 less speed at best.

She can't do head on fights that well, which is obvious.

We are comparing the characters with the respective listed class.

Ewan can't use anima as a shaman, so he'd have to wait until he's a druid to use anima again in which his anima gains as pupil is suspended when he promotes to Shaman. Its also much harder getting Ewan to promote to Druid due to harder enemies in chapter 12 and above, unless you're using tower lol. In chapter 12 enemy characters can easily reach him like the eye things and gargoyles, in chapter 13 he can get easily get ballistaed.

He also has much lower defense causing him to need more baby sitting. He does not have competition for flux but he has no access to anything else until he gets C rank, and she has access to a lot of weapons :3. I like him a little bit more because he can promote to one of two rare classes in which only two characters can get to (without hacking the game), but she's much easier to raise because of the move and sword gains as a cavalier, higher defense, and weaker enemies to feed her exp during his absence.

I feel like playing Sacred Stones again

Also note the fact his defense won't be affecting him that much as Amelia's lol resistance is. Few melee units besides archers use ranged attacks, and swords don't even count. Furthermore, ranged spears like the javelin and short spear will be the primary ones that enemies in normal game will hold, and they get weighed down by those. Ewan won't be taking doubles and won't be seeing much counter attacking as Amelia will. In chapter 13, which is the one with the great knight I believe, you can easily take out all archers capable of getting to the ballistia before they get there. Amelia does have higher move but it sucks to have a horse on the desert chapter and any other chapter with lots of terrain. The desert level is packed with enemies and we can expect weak characters like Ewan and Amelia to get loads of exp a kill, but since Amelia can't reach there, more exp goes to Ewan. Her selection of weapons isn't the greatest. The only way she can match his damage is by completely screwing her speed stat, and still she does less damage. Ewan's 1-2 range instantly wins in the range department, the MT of the weapon is similar, and the ability to target resistance means he will deal at least 5 damage more than her for much of the game. With 1-2 range and the ability to not get speed screwed by every weapon not called a slim lance allows him to level much easily. Gargolyes can fly, reach him.... and get utterly screwed by their resistance. Ewan isn't taking one hit KOs that often compared to Amelia who when wielding something not called a slim lance sees two shots all time. Ewan is better, early game, and end game.