Who do you usually.....?

[Zkirsche]

Units I always use:

Shinon

Haar

Gatrie

Nolan

Zihark

Aran

Elincia

Volke

Units I never use:

Mist

Fiona

Lyre

Astrid

Lethe

Leonardo

Units I tend to use:

Calill

Mist

Laura

Ilyana

Marcia

Sigrun

Tanith

Elincia

Aran

A very manly team you have there.

The number of units that could make good use of Wrath, I can count on one hand (Micaiah)

Mia/Zihark can use it with thier insane avo. Shinon can use it with crossbows to make them decent at the very least. Heck, Ike can probably use it well too for his fail 2 range. Heck, anyone with the wrath+vantage combo with good speed can probably make good use of it. So that includes Nephenee, Edward, Nealuchi, Lucia, Stefan and Volke. So unless you have an abnormal amount of fingers and thumbs, there are more units that can actually use wrath well than you can count on two hands.

Edited February 18, 2010 by The Syobon

[Shadow Mir]

Mia/Zihark can use it with thier insane avo. Shinon can use it with crossbows to make them decent at the very least. Heck, Ike can probably use it well too for his fail 2 range. Heck, anyone with the wrath+vantage combo with good speed can probably make good use of it. So that includes Nephenee, Edward, Nealuchi, Lucia, Stefan and Volke. So unless you have an abnormal amount of fingers and thumbs, there are more units that can actually use wrath well than you can count on two hands.

I'd rather NOT risk dying, thank you very much. Also, Wrath/Vantage is a far cry from being as godly as it was in FE9.

Edited February 18, 2010 by Richter Renard

[Zkirsche]

Sometimes a risk is necessary for an optimal playthrough. They can speed up chapters, draw attention away from weaker units ectetera.

And in no way did I say it was godly, I said the combination is good with those characters, which it is.

Take Nephenee, for example. A 20/2 Nephenee with Wrath/Vantage/Adept in 4-1 and a steel crit forge has 13 HP, 25 def, 103 Avo, 79 Crit, 30% Vantage, 30% Adept, 29% Impale.

Now, take this enemy:

3x Warrior lvl 8 (Stl Axe):

50 HP, 38 Atk, 25 AS, 145 Hit, 70 Avo, 20 Def, 13 Res, 12 Crit, 20 Ddg

Now, for starters, this warrior can only borderline kill her with her averages. Give her a def support or a bit of bexp in tier 2 and her def would be higher, or even her HP higher for the latter so she has 14 HP. And this is a warrior. Not a low-Atk SM or anything, so this OHKO thing is actually nonsense, it's a OHKO for Mist, but not for a unit like Nephenee.

With an Atk of 40 with that steel critforge, Neph 3HKO's this guy. So, adept alone won't cut it. Still, this guy has a 64.30% chance to not kill Neph right off the bat. Vantage + Impale kills him, so that's an extra 8.7% chance Neph won't die. That's 73% so far. The chance that she activates Vantage and crits is 17.7%. Now we're up to a 90.7% chance Neph will survive. Vantage + Adept + Crit will keep her alive, so that's a 5.31% extra. 96.01%. And finally, Vantage + Adept + Not Crit + Crit will kill her. 0.3^2 * 0.41 * 0.59 = 0.021771 or 2.1771%.

So that's a 98.1871% Neph will live, or a 1.8129% chance she'll die. That's not exactly a huge risk to take and I'm not saying we should forcibly drop her to wrath levels of HP and throw her into millions of enemies, but I can assure you that wrath + vantage can at least save her life when at low HP and does a lot better than no wrath + vantage, I can assure you (The crit% goes down to 9%, now that's not a number I'd trust). And at the very least she can survive 2 hits at such a level. Edward may have less Def, but he himself has a def boosting support and has more spd and luck to help him match Neph's avo she gains from her wind affinity. A similar thing for Stefan. Volke is incredibly speedy too ectetera etcetera.

I'm not in any way stating that wrath is a brilliant skill, but your hatred of it is unfounded and unreasonable.

[Shadow Mir]

Sometimes a risk is necessary for an optimal playthrough. They can speed up chapters, draw attention away from weaker units ectetera.

And in no way did I say it was godly, I said the combination is good with those characters, which it is.

Take Nephenee, for example. A 20/2 Nephenee with Wrath/Vantage/Adept in 4-1 and a steel crit forge has 13 HP, 25 def, 103 Avo, 79 Crit, 30% Vantage, 30% Adept, 29% Impale.

Now, take this enemy:

3x Warrior lvl 8 (Stl Axe):

50 HP, 38 Atk, 25 AS, 145 Hit, 70 Avo, 20 Def, 13 Res, 12 Crit, 20 Ddg

Now, for starters, this warrior can only borderline kill her with her averages. Give her a def support or a bit of bexp in tier 2 and her def would be higher, or even her HP higher for the latter so she has 14 HP. And this is a warrior. Not a low-Atk SM or anything, so this OHKO thing is actually nonsense, it's a OHKO for Mist, but not for a unit like Nephenee.

With an Atk of 40 with that steel critforge, Neph 3HKO's this guy. So, adept alone won't cut it. Still, this guy has a 64.30% chance to not kill Neph right off the bat. Vantage + Impale kills him, so that's an extra 8.7% chance Neph won't die. That's 73% so far. The chance that she activates Vantage and crits is 17.7%. Now we're up to a 90.7% chance Neph will survive. Vantage + Adept + Crit will keep her alive, so that's a 5.31% extra. 96.01%. And finally, Vantage + Adept + Not Crit + Crit will kill her. 0.3^2 * 0.41 * 0.59 = 0.021771 or 2.1771%.

So that's a 98.1871% Neph will live, or a 1.8129% chance she'll die. That's not exactly a huge risk to take and I'm not saying we should forcibly drop her to wrath levels of HP and throw her into millions of enemies, but I can assure you that wrath + vantage can at least save her life when at low HP and does a lot better than no wrath + vantage, I can assure you (The crit% goes down to 9%, now that's not a number I'd trust). And at the very least she can survive 2 hits at such a level. Edward may have less Def, but he himself has a def boosting support and has more spd and luck to help him match Neph's avo she gains from her wind affinity. A similar thing for Stefan. Volke is incredibly speedy too ectetera etcetera.

I'm not in any way stating that wrath is a brilliant skill, but your hatred of it is unfounded and unreasonable.

When you're in wrath range, that doesn't necessarily mean that you're at the highest HP you can have and still being in wrath range. That's what I'm complaining about; 30% HP or less is a steep requirement. Also, I'd rather not trust 30% Vantage. Admittedly, though sometimes risks are necessary, when the cost of it not paying off is a restart... Two words: Forget it. And again, having low Hp just for higher crit more sounds extremely counter-intuitive.

Edited February 18, 2010 by Richter Renard

[RNG Princess]

I find it odd that you'd prefer risky, counter-intuitive strategies over safe ones in a game like Fire Emblem, where one wrong move can be very costly.

Thankfully no wrong moves have been made at least not with wrathers ;).

Like I said they are always walled and so far so good, maybe because they are the first units I move and in any case Physic staff and/or a healer are around.

I am more worried about the walls themselves than the units with wrath.

Edward is the only one that gave me problems in part 1.

Edited February 18, 2010 by Queen_Elincia

[Zkirsche]

Well, you just completely ignored what I posted or didn't understand it. With that combination of skills a warrior with a decent hit weapon had a less than 2% chance of killing Nephenee. Any unit with a stronger weapon or a ranged weapon would have an even less chance of hitting Nephenee. Are you seriously telling me 1.8% is such a high chance a unit will die that it's not worth killing an enemy for? If you are, then you're way too protective of your units and you should be holding back many more units including Haar nearby mages, Mordy even with resolve active, even Mia with Vantage + Adept as even they can't face that many units before reaching such chances of death.

It can save you in dire situations by pretty much destroying any chance of death. Think of what the percentages would be like without wrath and tell me it isn't useful in protecting units. So whilst you may not need to start off with it active, you can at least be more offensive with the knowledge that at the end of the day your units are facing less than 2% chances of death.

[RNG Princess]

If you're talking to me I actually enjoy wrath :) but not on Nephenee or Edward :(.

[Zkirsche]

I was talking to Richter Renard.