FE8 100% Enemy growth hack

[Tables]

The title basically describes this hack in it's fullness: It's FE8, but every enemy has 100% growths in every stat. You can guess what that means, especially on Hard mode - before long, enemies have massive stats in everything, and I'm sitting there with my team of pansies (and Seth) trying to not get destroyed. Just to put it into perspective, I'm onto chapter 5 and looking at level 5 Soldiers with about 28 HP, 10 STR, 7 SKL, 8 SPD, 7 DEF, 7 RES, and those are the weakest enemies. The Mercenary has 16 Speed and Skill, 13 STR and 12 SKL (he doubles Seth and for good damage(!)), and the portraited Bandit is pretty much equal to Seth too.

Because I expect that to become completely impossible by about chapter 8 without some kind of help, Gilliam comes with an infinite use Juna Fruit (reduces level 10+ characters level), allowing me to level a bit more rapidly. Will it make the game easy? Heck no, but it'll make it possible. Also, unlike my no promotion run (on standard SS HM), I'm not going to be aiming for anything resembling efficiency :P.

Now onto the progress so far:

Prologue + Chapter 1 both fall fairly easily. Slightly stronger enemies make Franz a little more cautious, but nothing too worrying.

Chapter 2 was already tough enough to make me consider giving up. Those bandits are only level 2-3, but including Hard Mode boosts, they have about +4 or +5 to all of their base stats, which makes them crazy to kill, and killing me pretty quickly too. I let Ross and Garcia die, I don't think I have a use for either. I later considered Juna Fruit abuse of a tier 1 Ross, preventing his automatic promotion, but getting him up to that would probably be too difficult in the first place. In terms of strategy, Seth rushed forwards and took a few Bandits out, with Eirika dealing with the reinforcements and Franz and Gilliam clearing what was left that Seth damaged (he didn't double much).

Chapters 3 and 4 were both easy again: Chapter 3 was a slow progression through, giving Vanessa as many kills as possible. I think she reached about level 4. Seth and Eirika got a C support (Seth isn't in my long term plans, but Eirika also has only 1 support partner - Ephraim, so the boost now will help). Monsters are still lol.

Chapter 5 is where I am now. As I've said above, it's already looking scary. My team (Eirika, Franz, Gilliam, Vanessa, Moulder) is all about level 7-8, thanks to taking lots of hits to kill enemies, and I'm slowly working my way through.

Patch here (thanks for merging the posts, Narga):

Fire Emblem 8 Epic Enemies.zip

Edited March 17, 2010 by I eat tables

[Tables]

I'm guessing there's not really any interest in this then? If so, I won't both updating the log.

Chapter 5:

This was pretty bad as I said above. My basic strategy was to hold a defensive line, then advance when everything that moves is dead. This proves pretty tough, as most enemies move on this map ¬_¬. Vanessa held the left hand edge, while Eirika the spot just right of her. Everyone else went right, and Franz, Seth and Gilliam fought the Bandits with support from Moulder and Natasha. Eventually Vanessa came back, with Eirika trying to bait away an archer (and succeeding). I got to the armourslayer and Dragonshield villages, but the other two got torched. Recruited Joshua, bought some heal staves and steel weapons, and then finished off most of the enemies. Also, Franz, Gilliam and Eirika used the Juna fruit for the first time, and Vanessa hit level 10 from the bosskill so is also able to use it.

Order is effective level (i.e. how many levels they've gained + their base level), level, HP, STR, SKL, SPD, LUK, DEF, RES, supports

Eirika  | 10 | 7.59 | 24 |  7 | 12 | 15 | 12 |  5 |  4 | C Seth
Seth    |  2 | 2.04 | 31 | 14 | 14 | 12 | 13 | 11 |  8 | C Eirika
Franz   | 11 | 8.70 | 26 | 12 |  9 | 13 |  9 |  9 |  4 | C Gilliam
Gilliam | 11 | 6.13 | 32 | 15 |  9 |  7 |  4 | 11 |  4 | C Franz, C Moulder
Vanessa | 10 | 6.00 | 19 |  8 | 13 | 16 |  9 |  8 |  9 | C Moulder
Boulder | 11 |11.33 | 27 |  7 | 11 | 12 |  2 |  6 |  6 | C Vanessa, C Gilliam

I'm liking that Gilliam speed and Moulder the Boulder's defence.

Chapter 5x I originally thought would be insane, but my initial attempts are saying otherwise, as long as I use Orson liberally. Healing will probably be the main issue, just fighting the first swarm of enemies uses about half of my healing items up ¬_¬, although there are 2 Elixir's to get.

Edited March 18, 2010 by I eat tables

[Scarlet]

I'm guessing there's not really any interest in this then?

Well, I for one enjoy reading pretty much any playthrough log; this one's no exception, especially since the idea is cool. It's just that, like someone else said on another log before, that people (me included) aren't very commentative on these; I'm pretty sure though that a lot of people (like me, for example) at least read this.

I'm totally looking forward to seeing how you're going to handle random enemies with 20's in almost every stat. :D

[Tables]

Yeah, that's gonna be fun. Probably the same way as here; deal with ones that move, then creep forward slowly. Plus the Juna fruit is going to help, I'm probably not going to promote people until they have around 3 capped (at 20) stats. Getting lots of small levelups is going to help more than occasional normal levelups, I reckon.

[Tables]

Chapter 5x: Never underestimate the power of Jeigan abuse. Ephraim and Orson basically tag teamed this map, Ephraim Reinleifing any Knights and Cavaliers, with Orson taking most other enemies. I took the wider route around the throne room, avoiding a few enemies including the mage, and took about 6 elixir used and got some epic levelups for Ephraim (two +6 levels without savestate/RNG abuse = win in my book, although he's actually looking surprisingly average given that...)

Ephraim |  9 | 9.47 | 26 | 12 | 12 | 14 | 12 |  9 |  3 |
Orson   |  4 | lol
Forde   |  6 | 6.00 | Base                             | C Kyle
Kyle    |  5 | 5.21 | Base                             | C Forde

Added my main party stats to an older post.

Edited March 18, 2010 by I eat tables

[Mekkah]

I've played tons and tons of FE8 hacks which think they're clever by doubling or vastly increasing enemy growths. It usually ends up all the same for me: people who have "average" stats in something now suck, you can only rely on Seth and he won't double, Mercs will double your entire team, weighing yourself down is deadly, etc. Promoted enemies are instant death to almost anyone. I remember the horrors of Ch9 Eirika: that Sniper basically kills everyone except maybe Gilliam, Seth or Joshua, and there's Pirates going after villages.

EDIT: Don't take that the wrong way, I like reading this.

Edited March 18, 2010 by Mekkah

[Narga_Rocks]

I know this is a hack, but since it appears to be mainly a play-log I'm thinking of moving this to the fe8 board.

[Tables]

Yeah, that doesn't surprise me. I never thought this would be original, just thought I'd post it in case people were interested. The main difference I expect is my Juna fruit, which will actually make Seth become obsolete before too long (Franz is getting somewhat close and will level quickly from here on), so hopefully it'll be interesting enough.

Speaking of which, what route should go I go? Eirika has a scary near-cap Sniper, then Tethys almost certainly getting killed and a lolpwn Ranger and Falcoknight in chapters 9 and 10. Ephraim I think doesn't get promoted enemies that quickly, but does have Ghost ship with some, plus obviously surprise attacks of uber enemies, then near-cap Druids with Berserk staffs to worry about a little later.

Narga, that's fine with me. I guess it fits in either, but you probably know best.

Edited March 18, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[Mekkah]

I'd say Eirika's maps are more camp-able overall. Less rushing objectives, and sometimes they are there but they feel more secondary.

Also, you can avoid the majority of Ch10 Eirika's difficulty the following way. It might not work as well in this hack because the initial enemies are a bit stronger, but the alternative is probably even tougher to deal with.

Don't move anyone towards Gerik's group. Approaching the fort is what triggers Marisa's group to move, which means you have to deal with that Sleep Priest, an Archer, and some other crap...plus recruiting Marisa triggers the Falco and Ranger reinforcements. Marisa isn't worth dealing with those. Killing her totally works, by the way. If you really want her, I recommend dealing with all the northern enemies first, then sending your fliers to chain-ferry Gerik towards your main group on the plateau. Lure Marisa from the north and recruit her with Gerik, then run for Pablo. Or take him out first, then only lure+recruit her when you're about to seize.

[Narga_Rocks]

Yeah, that doesn't surprise me. I never thought this would be original, just thought I'd post it in case people were interested. The main difference I expect is my Juna fruit, which will actually make Seth become obsolete before too long (Franz is getting somewhat close and will level quickly from here on), so hopefully it'll be interesting enough.

Speaking of which, what route should go I go? Eirika has a scary near-cap Sniper, then Tethys almost certainly getting killed and a lolpwn Ranger and Falcoknight in chapters 9 and 10. Ephraim I think doesn't get promoted enemies that quickly, but does have Ghost ship with some, plus obviously surprise attacks of uber enemies, then near-cap Druids with Berserk staffs to worry about a little later.

Narga, that's fine with me. I guess it fits in either, but you probably know best.

I merged your posts. For posts about chapter playthroughs, feel free to double post, but just for comments and responses to other people's posts I'd rather you didn't.

Moving the topic since it is mainly a playthrough. Dondon's 0% player unit growths was in the fe6 board, and I think that was appropriate even though it's a hack too.

Oh, and are you increasing the bases of promoted units at all? If not, wouldn't a level 20 unpromoted enemy be way way better than a level 1 promoted enemy? Even up to like level 5 promoted?

[Tables]

Okay, thanks, although I'm not liking being told off about making two comments :P :).

Eirika's does seem better asides from those early chapters, also, I miss two good stat boosters on chapter 9, because there's no way I can reach either village, let alone both. But yeah, compared to some of the junk on Ephraim's, it's probably easier. I'd like the chance to train Ephraim some more though but I'll have to let it slide for now.

And that Sniper... bait and surround should work fine.

As far as I know, promoted enemies (on hard mode at least) get 19 levels of stat boosts, so regardless of any stat boosts, they'd have epic stats (at least 18 at --/1, average of around base+22). Basically, no.

[Mekkah]

Eirika's does seem better asides from those early chapters, also, I miss two good stat boosters on chapter 9, because there's no way I can reach either village, let alone both.

I'm pretty sure Vanessa and Tana can at least save the Rapier village regardless of stats. The Angelic Robe one is really hard, I think it requires taking a hit from the Killing Edge Myrmidon at least once.

[Narga_Rocks]

As far as I know, promoted enemies (on hard mode at least) get 19 levels of stat boosts, so regardless of any stat boosts, they'd have epic stats (at least 18 at --/1, average of around base+22). Basically, no.

I just thought since they had promoted unit base stats and their own growths that it would go straight from the base stats. I guess the other way of doing it is 19 levels on top of those base stats. I know RD just uses bases, but I guess the other games are different.

So, other question is what about bosses? Are they bad in comparison to other units or do they incorporate growths?

[Tables]

Hmm... in that case, I'll try for the village(s) and see what happens.

And yeah, bosses at the moment are about equal to generics. Give it a few chapters and they'll be weaker. In a way, it makes sense - the soldiers fight, the generals lead.

I've managed to get past the hard bit of chapter 6 (Cavalier rush), after a few attempts and lots of savestates ¬_¬. Update will come soon.

Chapter 6:

Vanessa got a Dracoshield, to help with her fragility. Since it's hard to box people in, I only bought my core team along (the ones mentioned above). Yes, no Colm and no torches. I don't need them.

Seth went north to distract the Cavaliers, buying the rest of my army enough time to kill the reinforcements. They had fun, dealing minimal damage, but effective Rapier usage helped, plus chip damage and Javelins. Seth then rejoined the main team just as his vulnerary ran out and he was down to 4 HP (protip: If someone is distracting enemies, give them more than one vulnerary). Then the team advanced slowly around the village, and them onto the boss.

Eirika  | 14 | 6.79 | 28 | 10 | 15 | 18 | 16 |  6 |  5 | B Seth               |
Seth    |  2 | 2.95 | 31 | 14 | 14 | 12 | 13 | 11 |  8 | B Eirika             |
Franz   | 14 | 8.09 | 29 | 13 |  9 | 15 | 10 | 11 |  5 | C Gilliam            |
Gilliam | 14 | 9.97 | 34 | 16 | 11 |  9 |  4 | 12 |  4 | C Franz, C Moulder   |
Vanessa | 14 | 6.00 | 21 |  9 | 16 | 20 | 12 | 12 | 10 | C Moulder            |+2 DEF
Moulder | 14 | 7.79 | 29 |  7 | 13 | 12 |  3 |  7 |  6 | C Vanessa, C Gilliam |

Statboosters are shown on the right, now.

Gilliam's Speed =

Edited March 19, 2010 by I eat tables

[Mekkah]

Jesus, those are some high levels. And quite even, too. You must be spending a ton of gold on healing items/staves, not to mention weapons.

[Tables]

Yeah, I wasn't strictly aiming for even levelling, but Vanessa needed the levels and they ended up just falling into place. The levels get high because they're gaining exp relatively fast, although enemies get stronger quicker than I do. And yeah, money is already looking bad... I have basically (equivalent in uses to) 2 iron and steel swords and lances, plus a few half used javelins and other weapons, 43 heal uses and about 15 mend uses, sufficient vulneraries and a few elixirs, and all of 130 gold to speak of ¬_¬. I could sell a few items, I guess... we'll see how chapter 7 and 8 go, I guess.

Or I'll just do it now... sold a Pure Water and Elixir, plus some axes and other weapons I can't use yet, and bought some more iron weapons (3 swords, 2 lances) and 3 Javelins. Should keep me going for a couple of chapters... are there any big goldmines in the game anywhere? I can't remember...

Entirely unrelated, but enemy stats do weird things on Normal mode... here's two screenshots, both from the same chapter (16 Eirika) on Normal in this hack:

Weird... I was aware that promoted enemies up to --/3 had base promoted stats in normal mode but that's quite a jump.

Edited March 19, 2010 by I eat tables

[Anouleth]

That's... weird. Are enemy stats supposed to be that low on Normal Mode?

[Mekkah]

Yeah, enemies in Normal Mode are breezes you can almost completely ignore.

[Tables]

Yup :P. Normal mode is hilarious, I just have saves at every chapter on it.

In fact, I just checked the normal game, and enemy stats do that between level 3 and 4. No screenshot because I'm lazy but the --/4 Warrior to the --/3 Warrior has about:

+9 HP

+5 STR

+2 SKL

+2 SPD

+1 LUK

+2 DEF

+1 RES

Which roughly fits the Warrior growths of:

80% HP

45% STR

25% SKL

20% SPD

15% LUK

16% DEF

17% RES

for 10 levels, which also fits my picture. So basically, Level 3 promoted enemies are treated at 1/1, and level 4 is treated as 10/1. Higher levels seem to gain 1 level at a time, so I guess it's better to think of it as level 7 promotion, if they're level 4 or above.

Also, I've looked at some hard mode saves, and yeah, the enemies are getting basically capped stats at level 2-3 promoted (all but luck and occasionally one or two stats are a few points of). A scary one was a capped Entombed at --/19 in a skirmish map, with 75 HP and everything else capped :P.

Chapter 7:

Another simple chapter. Eirika and Seth took out the north enemies, everyone else advanced. Colm is too slow to steal the Energy ring :(. Maybe I should have trained him... no real challenge here, got some okay levels too.

Name    | lv | exp  | HP | SM | SK | SP | LK | DF | RS | Supports             | Boosts
Eirika  | 17 | 9.78 | 31 | 12 | 16 | 20 | 16 |  7 |  7 | B Seth               |
Seth    |  3 | 3.01 | 32 | 15 | 15 | 12 | 14 | 11 |  9 | B Eirika             |
Franz   | 17 | 8.16 | 32 | 13 | 10 | 16 | 11 | 13 |  6 | B Gilliam            |
Gilliam | 16 | 7.60 | 36 | 16 | 11 | 10 |  4 | 13 |  5 | B Franz, C Moulder   |
Vanessa | 17 | 9.47 | 24 | 11 | 18 | 20 | 13 | 13 | 11 | B Moulder            |+2 DEF
Moulder | 16 | 9.55 | 30 |  7 | 15 | 13 |  3 |  8 |  8 | B Vanessa, C Gilliam |

The rapid levelling of my team means the generics aren't really a whole lot stronger than me at the moment, although just about every enemies has double digits in everything (the worst bit being Defence - fighting mages with 12 defence gets a bit annoying). I'm glad Vanessa's Strength has picked up a little.

Edited March 20, 2010 by I eat tables

[Anouleth]

Won't enemies like Entombed, Cyclopses and Dracozombies end up going into --HP territory (as in, enough HP that it's not displayed)?

[Mekkah]

If it takes a --/19 Entombed to get to 76 HP, I don't think they'll get there easily. Cyclops has 5 higher HP base and the same growth as Entombed, so I guess he'd get there if he was --/19.

[Tables]

Yeah, except they're limited by a cap of 80. Plus it's a bit random anyway, even with 100% growths, because of how enemy stats are caclulated (a level 10 Soldier could have between 9 to 15 defence, but anything outside 11-13 is very rare). So for a --/20 Cyclops... 3 levels for HM stats means 2-4. 19 levels unpromoted means 16-22. 19 levels promoted means 16-22. Base stat is 40, so it could be between 74 and 88, average is 81 (73-87, average 80 for --/19).

[Tables]

Chapter 8:

I got about halfway through this, before realising that I needed Colm if I wanted all the chests - and they have a Seraph Robe, Elysian Whip and Silver Sword, so at least two were well worth getting. Restarting, and I basically did exactly the same thing - break east as fast as possible, killing the Soldiers then leaving Gilliam to take care of the Knight, with everyone else teaming up on the Myrmidon and Mercenary, then teaming up with Ephraim and heading north. I gave Ephraim quite a few levels - otherwise he'll be basically useless when he rejoins, and he's Eirika's only long term support. Also, Gilliam got 3/4 levels of speed, with no RNG abuse (other characters have had a small amount to avoid totally horrid levels).

Name    | lv | exp  | HP | SM | SK | SP | LK | DF | RS | Supports             | Boosts
Eirika  | 19 | 8.76 | 32 | 12 | 17 | 20 | 18 |  8 |  9 | B Seth, C Ephraim    |
Seth    |  3 | 3.52 | 32 | 15 | 15 | 12 | 14 | 11 |  9 | B Eirika             |
Franz   | 21 | 9.19 | 34 | 13 | 11 | 20 | 12 | 14 |  7 | B Gilliam            |
Gilliam | 20 | 7.11 | 40 | 19 | 13 | 13 |  4 | 15 |  6 | B Franz, B Moulder   |
Vanessa | 21 | 8.00 | 27 | 13 | 20 | 20 | 16 | 14 | 11 | B Moulder            |+2 DEF
Moulder | 19 |12.79 | 31 |  8 | 15 | 15 |  5 |  8 |  8 | B Vanessa, B Gilliam |
Ephraim | 15 | 6.00 | 29 | 16 | 15 | 18 | 14 | 12 |  3 | C Eirika             |

Since it seems a nice time to do it, here are everyone's average stats at their levels:

Name    | lv | HP   | S/M  | SKL  | SPD  | LUK  | DEF  | RES  |
Eirika  | 19 | 28.6 | 11.2 | 19.4 | 20   | 16.4 |  8.7 |  6.7 |
Seth    |  3 | 31.8 | 15   | 13.9 | 12.9 | 13.5 | 11.8 |  8.6 |
Franz   | 21 | 36   | 15   | 13   | 17   | 10   | 11   |  5   |
Gilliam | 20 | 39.4 | 16.2 | 11.6 |  7.8 |  7.8 | 17.8 |  6.2 |
Vanessa | 21 | 27   | 12   | 18   | 20   | 14   | 12   | 13   | DEF included - average 10
Moulder | 19 | 31.2 | 10.4 | 14   | 15.4 |  4.2 |  6   |  9   |
Ephraim | 15 | 31.8 | 14.05| 15.05| 15.95| 13.5 | 10.85|  4.75|

Nobody's really getting screwed, and Gilliam's speed . Having looked at chapter 9, I don't think I can get to both the villages - the south one is covered by two archers ¬_¬. This especially hurts with my Rapier only having 7 uses left.

[Mekkah]

the south one is covered by two archers ¬_¬

This is 100% crit so it's a tad different from normal play, but I think you should be able to replicate it even without the kill on that Pirate.

[Tables]

Canto! . Yeah, I can do it with Tana taking one hit from a Pirate, while Vanessa can trade blows with the Killing Edge Myrmidon for the Dracoshield. That's a big help in this chapter, thanks for the advice :)