OBAMACARE

[Hero]

It's unconstitutional.

I'll add more if this incites enough RAEG from the vast number of progressives here. Death, Hero, Thunk, I'm lookin' at you.

Normally I'd rage, but since you mentioned me twice in your list of three people I'm abated.

Who takes that rotted piece of parchment seriously anyway?

I'm a democrat, so yay? /doesn't care for politics

I'm one of the hundred in Oklahoma who's a democrat I think.

I just met another of them recently. He's a pretty cool guy but looks a lot older than his age. One of the biggest stoners you'll ever meet, too.

[Life]

I find it funny that most Republicans play this entire bill up to be the first coming of communism in America. You guys (the country in general) are so right wing that I'm just in awe of everything that comes out. It makes for great entertainment as Canadian politics is generally boring with the exception of Omar Khadr and the Ontario government (McGuinty is an idiot and I want Mike Harris back).

Honestly, some of our Conservatives (our right wing guys) are probably more liberal than your liberals. If Jack Layton ever visited the US, he'd get a giant COMMUNIST! stamp right on his forehead.

This pisses me off so much. I have the strange need to move to Canada after I graduate from college.

If that's your mentality about your health care bill, you'll regret a move up north. Believe me, we pay a ton more taxes than you guys.

Edited March 23, 2010 by Admiral Lifey Crunch

[Fayt Zelpher]

I find it funny that most Republicans play this entire bill up to be the first coming of communism in America. You guys (the country in general) are so left wing that I'm just in awe of everything that comes out. It makes for great entertainment as Canadian politics is generally boring with the exception of Omar Khadr and the Ontario government (McGuinty is an idiot and I want Mike Harris back).

Honestly, some of our Conservatives (our left wing guys) are probably more liberal than your liberals. If Jack Layton ever visited the US, he'd get a giant COMMUNIST! stamp right on his forehead.

Except that it's the Republicans that are on the RIGHT wing and Democrats that are on the left.

[Life]

Except that it's the Republicans that are on the RIGHT wing and Democrats that are on the left.

Beat you to the corrections. Second edit was for the quote.

[Fayt Zelpher]

Beat you to the corrections. Second edit was for the quote.

Alright, I just wanted to make sure, because I was confused by the mistake.

[Life]

Alright, I just wanted to make sure, because I was confused by the mistake.

That's fine. I usually mix up the two but I never write down "right wing" and "left wing" on Poli Sci exams.

[Fayt Zelpher]

That's fine. I usually mix up the two but I never write down "right wing" and "left wing" on Poli Sci exams.

Alright, but in your country, I'd probably be a centrist at most, though I'm basically wearing a red anvil on my shirt all the time being in America.

I DO have to go now, so...

[Kanami]

Sounds more like a political stunt to me then anything. Though I really don't see how insuring a few million people is going to make the economy any better. I actually don't understand what this is about, is it a moral thing? Or something about rebuilding the medical system to make it less costly? And if you tell me both next you'll be telling me it prevents global warming and saves the Polar bear >_> Does the bill cover Polar bears?

While I'm not entirely sure of the specifics, this doesn't sound like switching to an entirely new system which will save the nation, but as many have said before me, a move to communism, and while I'm not against communism in the slightest as a system. I don't see how the supposed "Leader of the Free Worlds" can retain their title when introducing legislation like this.

Not too impressed with the timing of this either, if Obamacare is so important why is it being rushed in? I know we don't like greedy fat politicians using our tax money to sit around and argue over nothing, but that's essentially what we're paying them to do, do scrutinize policies. And it feels like they're trying to throw it in and right back out as law.

While the article is a bit old, this website listed many essential points that are pretty much undeniable.

http://maggiesfarm.anotherdotcom.com/archives/10836-Top-Ten-Reasons-For-ObamaCare-Are-Based-On-False-Information.html

[Balcerzak]

I think when I reveal that I self-identify as libertarian, it should be relatively clear what my general opinion on the matter is. I haven't had the time to invest in a detailed analysis of the situation is, so I can't lay out what I specifically dislike, however.

[Altera the Hun]

I know what socialization/socialism is. And I pretty much linked you to an article debunking that. Did you read it?

Yeah... You know this also forces those same companies to take people with pre-existing conditions which would be a massive drain on their funds, right?

[Hero]

I find it funny that most Republicans play this entire bill up to be the first coming of communism in America. You guys (the country in general) are so right wing that I'm just in awe of everything that comes out.

Not at all, most of you Canadians are pretty conservative compared to my part of the USA. It's a divided country in many ways--there are a lot of conservative areas but the coastal urban centers are very left-wing. The amount of noise the various factions make relative to each other changes with the times but the political landscape hasn't changed significantly in more than sixty years.

In Canada maybe western British Columbia and Toronto are as left-wing as where I'm from, otherwise you guys are relative conservatives even if you're not reactionary by any means. Conservative's not a bad thing to be, the raving demagogues who you find in more ideologically charged countries tend to turn everything they touch to ashes.

Sounds more like a political stunt to me then anything. Though I really don't see how insuring a few million people is going to make the economy any better. I actually don't understand what this is about, is it a moral thing? Or something about rebuilding the medical system to make it less costly? And if you tell me both next you'll be telling me it prevents global warming and saves the Polar bear >_> Does the bill cover Polar bears?

While I'm not entirely sure of the specifics, this doesn't sound like switching to an entirely new system which will save the nation, but as many have said before me, a move to communism, and while I'm not against communism in the slightest as a system. I don't see how the supposed "Leader of the Free Worlds" can retain their title when introducing legislation like this.

Not too impressed with the timing of this either, if Obamacare is so important why is it being rushed in? I know we don't like greedy fat politicians using our tax money to sit around and argue over nothing, but that's essentially what we're paying them to do, do scrutinize policies. And it feels like they're trying to throw it in and right back out as law.

Are you trying to make a joke about teabaggers or was this a serious post?

[Altera the Hun]

In Canada maybe western British Columbia and Toronto are as left-wing as where I'm from, otherwise you guys are relative conservatives even if you're not reactionary by any means.

QUEBEC. JESUS CHRIST, QUEBEC.

Also, something to note, I'm actually not a conservative concerning anything except the Military. I'm actually a libertarian- I want the Government out of ALL aspects of my life, kthx.

[Life]

QUEBEC. JESUS CHRIST, QUEBEC.

Hero, if you're gonna say that Canada isn't liberal, make sure that Quebec gets mention as "liberal as fuck". In my opinion, it's why Canadian politics are so boring. I don't know for a fact but I think that Quebec is still divided down the middle on the whole separation thing.

[Mikethfc]

But free healthcare isn't that bad unless you decide to overload it with managers like with the NHS but I'd still use it over BUPA anyday

[Altera the Hun]

But free healthcare isn't that bad unless you decide to overload it with managers like with the NHS but I'd still use it over BUPA anyday

That's the thing. Healthcare in the US was ALREADY overloaded. This bill adds to the load. It's a total logic-fail.

[Mikethfc]

That's the thing. Healthcare in the US was ALREADY overloaded. This bill adds to the load. It's a total logic-fail.

Well without free health care many wouldn't go to a hospital unless they were on the brink of life and death meaning cancer can go far longer without being detected

[Altera the Hun]

Well without free health care many wouldn't go to a hospital unless they were on the brink of life and death meaning cancer can go far longer without being detected

Which is retarded since there are several high-end charity facilities that will take them for free.

[Mikethfc]

Which is retarded since there are several high-end charity facilities that will take them for free.

Almost as reatarded as those comparing Obama to Hitler because of this?

Or the fact that we still haven't learnt that people are on a whole far too arrogant to change their views despite any evidence which may contradict them.

Edited March 23, 2010 by mikethfc

[Altera the Hun]

Almost as reatarded as those comparing Obama to Hitler because of this?

Yeah, since Hitler is a Fascist and Obama has been called Socialist by his own administration.

Stalin or Che would be better comparisons...

[Crysta]

Yeah... You know this also forces those same companies to take people with pre-existing conditions which would be a massive drain on their funds, right?

So I guess socialism is actually making companies give people what they paid for?

Man that totally sucks balls. I feel for those companies.

DAMN FASCISTS AND THEIR CORPORATIST SYMPATHIES

Btw, there's not nearly enough "charity" clinics to care for all the uninsured. Believing that is just plain naive.

[Altera the Hun]

So I guess socialism is actually making companies give people what they paid for?

Man that totally sucks balls. I feel for those companies.

DAMN FASCISTS AND THEIR CORPORATIST SYMPATHIES

Btw, there's not nearly enough "charity" clinics to care for all the uninsured. Believing that is just plain naive.

Except these companies aren't taking these people to begin with because of said conditions. So no, not really.

There's hundreds of thousands of such free clinics for people to go to for smaller stuff, and hundreds of charity clinics that will take care of the rest across the country. Even then, if someone comes into a hospital in need of treatment, the Hospital will take care of them anyways and charge them later, when they're better.

[Hero]

Hero, if you're gonna say that Canada isn't liberal, make sure that Quebec gets mention as "liberal as fuck". In my opinion, it's why Canadian politics are so boring. I don't know for a fact but I think that Quebec is still divided down the middle on the whole separation thing.

There are definitely a lot of leftists in Quebec, but even in Montreal there's a strong conservative presence. And culturally almost all the Bloc Quebecois types are going to be pretty right-wing, regardless of their party's economic policy. To be honest I don't hear too much about Quebec politics except in the context of the national question, but that's my impression. It's provincial politics are definitely more hardline than in most of the rest of Canada.

I think the separatist star is falling right now, that cause hasn't really been gaining popularity since the referendum failed in 1995 and most of the population growth since then has been pro-anglo, thanks to high immigration. It might be that the separatists will make a big comeback in the next generation though, if enough of those immigrants' children assimilate thoroughly and if the remaining Anglos in the smaller cities keep moving to other provinces.

[Wist]

Someone noted an interest in reading the bill if no reputable, coherent articles were to be found. H.R.3590 and H.R.4872 can be read here and here, respectively. It's... navigable, so not horrifically difficult to cite should anyone wish to.

Edited March 23, 2010 by Wist

[Crysta]

There's hundreds of thousands of such free clinics for people to go to for smaller stuff

Here's the "hundreds of thousands" of free clinics in California. You may have to drive a ways.

To be honest, I'll be surprised if they number well over 1000.

Even then, if someone comes into a hospital in need of treatment, the Hospital will take care of them anyways and charge them later, when they're better.

Apparently you're unaware that someone working $8 an hour may not have the money to pay for a $10000+ bill any time soon. This isn't for the people who can pay; it's for those who cannot.

Medical Bills Cause Most Bankruptcies

Edited March 23, 2010 by Crysta

[messy mike]

Oh, 'Bama.