FireRed/LeafGreen ingame tier list

[Dat Nick]

For no real reason, really.

-Trade evos aren't considered. I know I've heavily protested it in games that have wifi access. I still do. But FRLG isn't a wifi game.

-Sevii Islands and shit are assumed because I forgot all about them at the time I wrote up this rule

-Stones can be bought and you have plenty of money to do so, so the opportunity cost for stone evo does not exist (just a refresher course since people may be used to pokethaloning for stones)

-It's been a long time since I've played this game. Expect the initial draft of this list to be VERY inaccurate.

-No glitches. I'm actually not sure if FRLG has any silly ones like the infa-rare candy trick, but just in case it does the answer is still no.

Top:

Bulbasaur

Squirtle

High:

NidoranM

Charmander

NidoranF

Mankey

Geodude

Abra

Staryu

Mid Hi:

Magnemite

Zapdos

Articuno

Snorlax

Rattata

Spearow

Doduo

Pidgey

Diglett

Mid:

Gastly

Drowzee

Machop

Growlithe

Mewtwo

Vaporeon

Poliwag

Horsea

Goldeen

Pikachu

Electabuzz

Magmar

Mid Lo:

Seel

Zubat

Ponyta

Meowth

Vulpix

Hitmonlee

Hitmonchan

Tauros

Kangaskahn

Pinsir

Scyther

Oddish

Bellsprout

Eggxecute

Tangela

Lo:

Krabby

Magikarp

Cubone

Sandshrew

Psyduck

Lapras

Tentacool

Jolteon

Flareon

Aerodactyl

Kabuto

Omanyte

Weedle

Caterpie

Bottom:

Moltres

Chansey

Koffing

Voltorb

Shellder

Slowpoke

Clefairy

Jigglypuff

Ekans

Venonat

Paras

Rhyhorn

Grimer

Est:

Onix

Farfetch'd

Ditto

Hitmontop:

Porygon

Missingno:

Mew

Edited June 20, 2010 by SaltyWongIsSalty

[-Cynthia-]

What do you consider 'beating the game'? FR/LG had the Islands and R2 of the E4, which I'm not sure is considered postgame.

Flareon>Vapoeron>Jolteon? Competetively it's just about backwards, so not sure why there are so many tier differences here int he other direction.

Oddish and Bellsprout up for Misty killing skills (assuming we didn't get Bulbasaur)

Edited April 1, 2010 by -Cynthia-

[Florete]

This should have been a Red/Blue/Yellow list so you could get Mew before Misty (Assuming it still worked in Yellow). Oh well.

I understand having Articuno and Zapdos above Moltres, but what's with the humongous gap?

[Dat Nick]

What do you consider 'beating the game'? FR/LG had the Islands and R2 of the E4, which I'm not sure is considered postgame.

I...had forgotten all about that. First things first, Mewtwo gets put on the list, and maybe some bottom tiers don't suck quite as bad anymore (availability was the main thing going against them)

Flareon>Vapoeron>Jolteon? Competetively it's just about backwards, so not sure why there are so many tier differences here int he other direction.

Looking over it:

Flareon pwns vs:

Erica, Koga (bug types), Lorelei (ice)

Vaporeon pwns vs:

Blane, Giovanni (ground), Bruno

Jolteon pwns vs:

Lorelei's water types (if she even has any, I don't remember) and uh...Jolteon sucks.

You're right, Vaporeon should rise to Flareon's level, but Jolteon still sucks.

Oddish and Bellsprout up for Misty killing skills (assuming we didn't get Bulbasaur)

I'll buy that argument even though I don't care for it just because Pidgey/Rattata suck and Safari Zones are too late.

I understand having Articuno and Zapdos above Moltres, but what's with the humongous gap?

Moltres sucks, that's why. It comes with like, Peck and Leer (or did they change that? either way it's pretty bad ans just has the islands to eat a TM and not suck)

Although it probably isn't Est tier anymore.

Edited April 1, 2010 by s Portsman

[-Cynthia-]

I think Mewtwo is only after you beat them the second time, Moltres is before though.

Lorelei's team is actually really water based.

Dewgong, Cloyster, Lapras, Jynx, Slowbro

Flareon only hits one Poke super effective, Jolteon hits 4/5. Plus, Flareon is facing super effective damage from Lapras using Surf and such. Jolteon also kills Gyarados.

Edited April 1, 2010 by -Cynthia-

[Dat Nick]

I guess Vaporeon>Flareon then, but since this is Jolteon's only real shining point, it's still pretty bad. All of them a tier apart sounds fair.

[Emeraldfox]

Why is Porygon so low when it has Conversion? Or was it Conversion2? Anyway, one of those, plus Psychic is pretty nice. And it can learn some electric moves too. And Sharpen to help out its normal moves, like Tri-Attack.

Edited April 1, 2010 by Tenshi Hinanawi

[Dat Nick]

it costs 9990 coins to get

thats why

[Emeraldfox]

it costs 9990 coins to get

thats why

...=/

Well, it could be a little higher because it can be a special power house with the right moves and nature. At least in the Est tier.

[Dat Nick]

It could be the best pokemon in the world.

It won't change the fact that it sees play so rarely because, well, price tag.

[The Divine Swordmaster]

I think Mewtwo is only after you beat them the second time, Moltres is before though.

Lorelei's team is actually really water based.

Dewgong, Cloyster, Lapras, Jynx, Slowbro

Flareon only hits one Poke super effective, Jolteon hits 4/5. Plus, Flareon is facing super effective damage from Lapras using Surf and such. Jolteon also kills Gyarados.

It also is effective against Aerodactyl, Pidgeot and Golbat

[grandjackal]

Looking over it:

Flareon pwns vs:

Erica, Koga (bug types), Lorelei (ice)

You fight Erika basically immediately after you get Eevee, muchless level it to the point it actually learns a fire move to do that. Lorelei was explained and the bug types in Koga's gym consist entirely of his Venomoth. It's high attack and the fact it comes with Bite however is good versus the amazing amount of Hypno and Drowzee in them, along with Sabrina's gym.

Vaporeon pwns vs:

Blane, Giovanni (ground), Bruno

Only problem is with Bruno, of which the only two pokemon are his whoop-dee-doo two Onix's. Everything else is faster than sluggish Vaporeon and tends to kick it's low defense ass, despite it's high HP. Even worse, Vaporeon's special attack isn't as helpful as it could have been in the original, as some of the fighting types have high special defense, such as Lee and Chan.

Jolteon pwns vs:

Lorelei's water types (if she even has any, I don't remember) and uh...Jolteon sucks.

You're right, Vaporeon should rise to Flareon's level, but Jolteon still sucks.

Bite, Thunderwave, offensive thunder move and Double Kick give Jolteon a very varied elemental offensive pool along with something neither has, a great auto-status effect, Jolteon's being Thunder Wave. Unquestionably goes first every time as well, as Jolteon's the fastest pokemon in gen 1 aside form lolElectrode.

Moltres sucks, that's why. It comes with like, Peck and Leer (or did they change that? either way it's pretty bad ans just has the islands to eat a TM and not suck)

Moltres is certainly worse, but the birds in general aren't as cool as they used to be aside form Articuno who has a rare element you really want coming up (flight against Bruno with ice beam ont he onix, Lance's dragons). All Zapdos really is is a Fearow with Thunder, which is matched up with Zapdos's now quite a bit lower special attack. I believe Moltres now also knows Flamethrower.

Although it probably isn't Est tier anymore.

My only problem is that not only could you have many many fire types that are just as good (Charizard, Arcanine), fire isn't even a much wanted element in Kanto.

[The Divine Swordmaster]

I dont think Moltres should be that low, it actually has the best stats of the legendary birds(I think), and has an actual moves this time around:

Flamethrower

Endure

Agility

Fire Spin

Also this is 3rd gen so Flareon's bite goes off Sp. Atk not regular attack...

Edited April 1, 2010 by The Divine Swordmaster

[riariadne]

I'd like to point out that Moltres is actually GOOD in this game and can be caught right after the seventh gym. That's not too bad, actually, considering the Sevii islands are pretty long/annoying. Putting it that low is just... stupid.

Magikarp up since you can get it stupidly early and get a Gyarados pretty quick.

Lastly: Mewtwo. No. Just no. It doesn't even show up until right before the E4 R2. It's insanely awesome, yeah, but it shows up after you've beaten pretty much 95% of the game. Seriously.

[Dat Nick]

It's insanely awesome, yeah, but it shows up after you've beaten pretty much 95% of the game.

and moltres doesn't?

also, this isnt generation 4 where gyarados is actually good

Edited April 1, 2010 by s Portsman

[grandjackal]

Speaking of after the seventh gym, that's not a good thing in comparison to the other birds. You can get Articuno as soon as you can use Surf and Strength (before Blaine, essentially), and you can get Zapdos as early as getting Surf (Before Sabrina!). Being there for Giovanni's gym (where fire sucks the hard one) and beyond is not a lot of time, especially when your element isn't helping much (they all fly so they'regood against Bruno, Zapdos's thunder is great on Lorelei, Articuno's Ice on Lance. What's Moltres gonna do, give Gary's Eggxecutor the heeby jeebys? Other birds can do that too, Articuno with Ice beam and Zapdos's Drill Peck. They also help against his Pidgeot, Zapdos on his Gyarados and Aticuno against his Rhydon.

Venusaur is same as the Eggxecutor.

Edited April 1, 2010 by Cait Sith

[The Divine Swordmaster]

If we have Mewtwo on the list we should put the Johto pokemon from the Sevii Islands on here too, we can get them before we get Mewtwo

[Dark Sage]

LOL Exeggutor, Gyrados, Shelder, Slowpoke, Rhyhorn and Chansey being low. Speaking of which, Mankey and NidoranF need to drop. Mankey's decent but he loses out to Machop and the Hitmon-family. Could you explain your reasoning?

I really think you should allow trading. I mean I know I don't have any friends to trade with, but still, many other people do.

[riariadne]

and moltres doesn't?

At least Moltres get's the Sevii Islands and can be pretty nice there before Mewtwo makes any sort of appearance. It's just sill how high Mewtwo is with availability that awful.

[Dat Nick]

LOL Exeggutor, Gyrados, Shelder, Slowpoke, Rhyhorn and Chansey being low.

They should rise, because?

Speaking of which, Mankey and NidoranF need to drop.

because?

Mankey's decent but he loses out to Machop and the Hitmon-family.

Because? Machop is stuck with Machoke (which is slow as shit, Mankey has this cool thing called speed) and not only does Hitmonlee come late, I don't see how it's "better" than Mankey at all. It's atk is overkilled and it's defenses are just rubbish (def matters when it's as bad as Hitmonlees) and it starts behind Primeape level wise, too. Like, a lot. I remember in the Rocket hideout in Celadon I had a 28 Mankey who just turned into Primeape, and I was using a team of six.

Could you explain your reasoning?

You explain yours first.

At least Moltres get's the Sevii Islands and can be pretty nice there before Mewtwo makes any sort of appearance.

The Sevii islands aren't even that hard to begin with, and I have like, 100 pokemon by now who can do Moltres's job, and better. Mewtwo down if you want him down that badly, but if Moltres ever goes up it won't be out of bottom.

Furthermore, a lot of people don't have friends who still play FRLG. I'm one, too. So trading can't be assumed (though I'm still adamant about it being included in wifi games like HGSS/DPPT, I just can't be assed to argue it)

Edited April 3, 2010 by s Portsman

[grandjackal]

LOL Exeggutor

Shows up late, slow as shit, Leaf element no longer a big deal, only real good news is that it can destroy Bruno, I don't see how he's a big deal.

Gyrados

Takes forever to train up Magikarp that has no serious attack to fight back with, and all I get is a pokemon who is not that fast with only Bite and Dragon Rage to it's name, can't use it's STABS well as it doesn't learn any flying moves and it's SP Atk sucks so it can't use water well, and otherwise has an incredibly shitty movepool to compliment it's stats?

Gyarados sucked the root before Diamond and Pearl.

Shelder

Sweet, just what I want, shitty overall offense and shitty special defense only to boast decent speed and overkill physical defense.

Slowpoke

Maybe if you got him earlier...

Rhyhorn and Chansey being low.

Now I just have to laugh. Seriously? Ryhorn and Chansey? Yeah, Geodude with a worse movepool and takes forever to evolve and the most useless offense you could possibly find. For what? To have Chansey on the team?

Speaking of which, Mankey and NidoranF need to drop. Mankey's decent but he loses out to Machop and the Hitmon-family. Could you explain your reasoning?

Speed, is around when fighting is actually excellent (Low Kick sweeps Brock, among various other heavyweights), statistically not that different from Hitmonlee, faster than Machop, doesn't need to be traded to evolve, yadda yadda.

Mind explaining NidoranF?

[Dark Sage]

Exeggutor has a sweet movepool and amzing stats. He has a nice stall game and you can get him as soon as you get an Exeggute. Plus he's great in the 4th, 5th, and 8th gyms. Not to mention he does ok against other types. Shelder and Rhyhorn have great defense games. Like Exeggutor, you can get Cloyster immediately after you get a Shelder due to the Celadon Dept. Store. Gyrados can be gotten early by buying the Magikarp from the Shady Dude in the center before Mt. Moon. He only evolves at level 20 and also has a sweet movepool and great stats across the board. Theoretically, you could get a Gyrados by the 4th gym. Rhyhorn does evolve really late, but STAB Earthquake and Horn Drill is nice. Plus he's a nice tank overall. Chansey is one of the best tanks in the game and has healing and special attacks. Plus she can be a Blissey, which rocks even harder.

I guess NidoranF can stay, but Primeape suffers from all of Hitmonlee's flaws, just less so. Hitmonchan has Primeape's attack and is tankier, plus elemental punches. Hitmontop is even tankier, augumented by Intimidate. He's kind of weaker in Attack, but beats him in a everything else except HP and Speed, but Primeape's HP sucks anyway. I guess Primeape has the earlygame and availability edge though, but I still stand by my earlier comment.

I think you can transfer your FRLG pokemon to 4th gen games though.

[Dat Nick]

Hitmontop is even tankier, augumented by Intimidate.

too bad hitmontop doesn't exist

You know, no tyogre and all

[Dark Sage]

Yes it does. National Dex and all.

What. You allow Moltres and Mewto in there, you can allow Hitmontop.

But still if you're not going to, my points still stand.

And no Cait Sith, Gyrados did not suck before D/P/P. And even if he did, what makes him any different now?

Edited April 3, 2010 by Dark Sage

[grandjackal]

Yes it does. National Dex and all.

What. You allow Moltres and Mewto in there, you can allow Hitmontop.

Mewtwo I feel doesn't have enough relevence to matter, but comparing Moltres to Tyrogue is hilarious. First off, you need to have basically beaten all but the sevi-islands to get the national dex. Then you have to breed Hitmon to get our pitiful level 5 Tyrogue. Then we have to make sure it's defense and attack stats are PRECISELY THE SAME at level 20, which is a feat unto itself. Now we get to take on the last portions of the sevi-islands, where trainers have around level 40s and 50s pokemon, with a level 20 hitmontop.

Moltres is at least around to be of some help during...Ya know, the actual part of the game.

And no Cait Sith, Gyrados did not suck before D/P/P. And even if he did, what makes him any different now?

Yes, he did, all he had to his name was Bite and Dragon Rage. Intimidate helps, but he's still incredibly meh outside of those two moves.

What makes the difference is that in D/P/P, the attacks got seperated into physical or special, despite the element. In FR/LG, Water no matter what is a special attack, so Gyarados's STABS suck balls. There's flying, but he can't learn any flying moves. Considering all he has outside of TMs is Bite and Dragon Rage, Gyarados's offense is surprisingly lacking. Gyarados is tough, but he doesn't have much going for him offensively, surprisingly. Was a different story in RBY back when special was one stat and his was high as well.

In D/P/P and beyond, he at least had Waterfall which was an HM so you're going to use it someone eventually. It's a physical attack, so now Gyarados has a STAB that he doesn't suck with, along with the devestating Aqua Tail (which I believe is also physical). So not only did he get more offense, he got offensive variety. However, he doesn't have that here. All he's got in this game is meh offense and pretty good durability.

However, that's not really worth raising Magikarp to get a rather par pokemon (as opposed to D/P/P where the effort is actually worth it). Let's go over how shitty it is to raise this damn thing. In this game, you don't get EXP Share till at LEAST Lavender Town, which means to train Magikarp you have to use the good ol' switch out method, which not only takes time, it saps EXP away from a pokemon to open with to just destroy the damn thing off the bat, but now this pokemon is now hurt or debuffed, or the enemy is buffed. Even the one you get at mt. moon, it is still going to take forever (since the karp is NEVER going to kill his own things), and it's more effort than it's worth in the end.