FE4 Gen. 1 Efficiency Tier List

[BEST TRYNDAMERE PLAYER]

So do a lot of people who aren't high tier, including Alec

My point is he has Pursuit and has a Brave weapon given to him that he'll most likely only be using until Chapter 3 at the very least, despite not being exclusive. And he can beat Cuan offensively if Cuan doesn't have the ring, and keep in mind Lex would also like that ring as Hero Axe+Pursuit=rape.

That he has no exclusive rights to, especially when Fury uses it better

Okay, but Fury won't get to use the lance till at least Chapter 3 most likely.

1. Who wants to name off all the people who would like the speed ring?

Any lance user that has Pursuit due to lances being so heavy in this game or Lex with the Pursuit ring.

2. If he needs the speed ring to double despite having pursuit, wouldn't that mean pursuit is that that much an advantage for him?

Yes it is an advantage for him since Fin can get the speed ring for free and who else that's in your team in Chapter 1 really needs it? Sigurd and Alec don't really need it due to swords being so light in this game. Midir may want it but bows aren't too heavy.

Under an incredibly specific and unlikely condition of being below 5 HP.

Yeah I know it's unlikely but it's still nice to have around.

Also, nice addressing the availability issue, where he disappears after chapter 3.

When you think about it Fury pretty much has the same availability Fin does

I would rather have foot soldiers who are decent during foot soldier segments than those guys being of ever so minor benefit of being mop-up for our horsemen, of which consist mostly of royally badass units like Sigurd, Lex, Midir, Pursuit Cuan, Fin (when those two are around anyways), and Fury (when she's not out and about flying where others can't follow). Mobility is nice, but being characters specifically existing just to eat scraps/the occasional slayer weapon kill is still not exactly helpful.

Yeah, but the one issue with foot-soldiers is that they don't have Canto unless they get the Knight Ring and Sylvia wants that ring more than any footsoldier.

Edited April 4, 2010 by Joey

[grandjackal]

Noish can't even use a generic weapon stronger than Steel even post promotion. 2 MT for more doubling is not a bad trade-off.

2 Mt is 4 damage base, with Berserk it's up to 8, and further compounded by Duel. It's more of a difference than you think when it comes to Noish.

Fire weighing way too much is only one of Azel's problems. His durability hinders him in the arena, and there's no reason to waste a perfectly good ring on someone for the Arena only. It's the same as Noish vs. Ardan for the Pursuit Ring.

Then thunder comes into play, and a level 6 Azel with Thunder and Ring has 9 AS. Chapter 3's Swordfighter has 8 AS thanks to Claymore's 6 weight. Not only is he now avoiding the double, he's doubling back. The next two enemies are punk-ass armors, of which Azel tears through, as he can land 3 shots before they land two. The ring just got him 3 more arena kills at a low level, which could have scored him plenty more levels here and in the future.

Selling is impossible?

Why waste the time and money when I can just have someone keep it?

Fin's lances weigh 12. If he wants to start quadding sooner, that Speed Ring helps him out a lot.

Or we could sell the damn thing to Fury, who automatically has no problem with it. That, and I doubt gen 1 enemies are so fast as to warrent Fin unable to double them, as their weapons are just as heavy as his. It's nice that he could do this (when Fury already could)...For one chapter (another deal, where does he get the money in time? Noish at least has more time, and he's not THAT bad a father to some so hemight have a few people willing to give him cash). But, then he just up and leaves. Why bother, I guess is what I'm saying.

My point is he has Pursuit and has a Brave weapon given to him that he'll most likely only be using until Chapter 3 at the very least, despite not being exclusive. And he can beat Cuan offensively if Cuan doesn't have the ring, and keep in mind Lex would also like that ring as Hero Axe+Pursuit=rape.

Could even let Cuan buy the brave lance, now complete with his monsterous strength behind it.

Besides, are you REALLY claiming Fin is having doubling issues as soon as chapter 2?

Okay, but Fury won't get to use the lance till at least Chapter 3 most likely.

Thanks for admitting Fin has the lance for at best half a chapter's time.

Any lance user that has Pursuit due to lances being so heavy in this game or Lex with the Pursuit ring.

Like Noish, as to boost his Duel activation, along with letting him get the ring for free which gives him more reason to be given the Pursuit Ring

When you think about it Fury pretty much has the same availability Fin does

Fin has the brave lance for half a chapter, Fury has it for 3.

Yeah, but the one issue with foot-soldiers is that they don't have Canto unless they get the Knight Ring and Sylvia wants that ring more than any footsoldier.

Ok sweet, they have Canto, they want a cookie? It doesn't stop them from being offensive garbage outside of specificly needed items (Noish with Pursuit and possibly Speed ring, Alec with Strength Ring).

Edited April 4, 2010 by Cait Sith

[SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre]

The Speed Ring goes to Fin because it enables him to double Hunters, which translates into dealing 30 damage to them instead of 15. No one else gets comparable gains in offense just because of getting the Ring.

Fin has -2 AS or something. In chapter 1, Hunters have -1 AS or 0 AS. It increases his avoid when's he frontlining with Prayer along with doubling more of those same Hunters when you go to Chapter 1, except that you now have a Steel Lance ORKO them.

Edited April 4, 2010 by Sidney Crysby

[Aquilae]

There are a lot of situations where Prayer comes in handy, especially for a unit with great offense like Fin. Fin actually can take out whole hordes of enemies at little risk to himself if you play around with Prayer, something that the other people who have Prayer (Ethlin and Sylvia) cannot do.

Also, Fin still does fine without the Brave Lance since with Steel and a Speed Ring he's already ORKOing most stuff bar Armors and other tanky units. Without the Brave Lance Fin can't ORKO Elty's Cross Knights and the armors (unless he's promoted and has Silver), which makes him higher priority for the Lance than Fury. Her durability isn't great and she can't frontline much unlike Fin.

[Momo]

How are Fin and Fury competing with each other for the Hero Lance? Fin leaves at the end of chapter 3 and Fury joins only a bit before that. Would you really put the Hero Lance in the pawn shop, making it completely useless until Fury can buy it?

edit: Forgot Fury joins in chapter 2, not 3. disreguard plz

Edited April 4, 2010 by Gardenia's Tummy

[Aquilae]

Fin leaves after Chapter 3 and at the beginning of Chapter 4, while Fury joins late-chapter 2. They compete with each other for the Hero Lance for one chapter, chapter 3.

EDIT: Typed my post before the edit @_@

Edited April 4, 2010 by Aquilae

[SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre]

There are a lot of situations where Prayer comes in handy, especially for a unit with great offense like Fin. Fin actually can take out whole hordes of enemies at little risk to himself if you play around with Prayer, something that the other people who have Prayer (Ethlin and Sylvia) cannot do.

Ethlin does not have Prayer.

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Fury does not do much in Ch. 2 anyway. Her main, if not only, contribution in Ch.2 is gaining levels in the arena.

She either can't join the battles because she's about to be popped by a Ballista/Bow or she's too late in getting to the action.

Edited April 4, 2010 by Sidney Crysby

[BEST TRYNDAMERE PLAYER]

where does he get the money in time?

If you're talking about the speed ring, he can very easily get it for free in the prologue and nobody else really wants it except for Midir maybe(And Azel would like it too but really, it's just a waste on him seeing as he'll very rarely see actual combat)

Could even let Cuan buy the brave lance, now complete with his monsterous strength behind it.

Besides, are you REALLY claiming Fin is having doubling issues as soon as chapter 2?

Yes, especially against Voltz and his crew. And are you really going to attempt to sandbag Fin that badly? Keep in mind Cuan is the only person in your team with A lances when the Brave Lance shows up. Of course Cuan would like the Brave Lance but he's better off using the Silver Lance because he's the only unit capable of using it at that point and time and if we're playing efficiently here Fin would like that Brave Lance more seeing as he wouldn't be able to wear the Silver Lance because it's better to split two awesome weapons between two good units than to have one good unit have both awesome weapons leaving the other unit screwed over and pretty much wasting one of the awesome weapons. And also, Fin is still a better candidate for the Brave Lance unless you also give Cuan the Pursuit Ring.

Thanks for admitting Fin has the lance for at best half a chapter's time.

Better than selling the Lance to Fury when she's first recruited who probably won't see any action at all in Chapter 2.

Like Noish, as to boost his Duel activation, along with letting him get the ring for free which gives him more reason to be given the Pursuit Ring

You are aware duel can backfire as well? Besides even with the speed ring it won't significantly increase Duel's activation rate. I'd rather give the ring to unit with a pursuit seeing as that unit will double as long as said unit's AS beats the enemy's by 1 than give it to a unit who has to rely on a 15-20% chance on average to double.

Ok sweet, they have Canto, they want a cookie? It doesn't stop them from being offensive garbage outside of specificly needed items (Noish with Pursuit and possibly Speed ring, Alec with Strength Ring).

Canto gives them more flexibility. They don't necessarily need stat-boosters to be good but we can easily say that they contribute way more than Dew and Azel would.

Edited April 4, 2010 by Joey

[SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre]

I also think Fury needs to go below Fin; she doesn't really do much except kill Pirates and stuff. Fin is doing major battling.

Edited April 4, 2010 by Sidney Crysby

[chrysalid]

I'm interested to see how the active efficiency logs play chapters 4 and 5. In ranked you can play fairly slow and everyone is so bloated with levels at that point I get a lot more endangered by FE ennui than by the enemies/logistics. I'd think Claude and his Reserve staff would be very useful if you're trying to chop off turns and he's on the leg ring Sylvia Express.

[SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre]

I'm interested to see how the active efficiency logs play chapters 4 and 5. In ranked you can play fairly slow and everyone is so bloated with levels at that point I get a lot more endangered by FE ennui than by the enemies/logistics. I'd think Claude and his Reserve staff would be very useful if you're trying to chop off turns and he's on the leg ring Sylvia Express.

I've consistently done 26 turns for chapter 5 for my ranked runs. Can't remember what my shortest Ch. 4 time was. Maybe 35-37 turns and I was trying to hurry.

Edited April 4, 2010 by Sidney Crysby

[chrysalid]

I get about the same in ranked but I was wondering what you could get in full efficiency. Like I do chapter 1 in 35 in ranked and I've done it in mid-high 20s efficiency, but I've never played 4 in that style.

[Aquilae]

Max Efficiency (i.e. insane RNG hax and meticulous planning) puts the max for C4 at 16 turns. C5's minimum turncount is 10 turns. I can't remember my original turncounts, I'll have to see how fast I can do these chapters.

http://www.fireemblem.net/fe/fe4/fe4--gonglue/limit/05.htm - C5 lowturns

http://www.fireemblem.net/fe/fe4/fe4--gonglue/limit/04.htm - C4 lowturns

[chrysalid]

I don't know moon runes or that site, is that equivalent to manually picking RNs yourself, any attack you make that isn't 0 always hits, any attack on you less than 100 always misses? Every level up is all maxed? Or just realistically 1-in-100 or so lucky ?

[SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre]

I don't know moon runes or that site, is that equivalent to manually picking RNs yourself, any attack you make that isn't 0 always hits, any attack on you less than 100 always misses? Every level up is all maxed? Or just realistically 1-in-100 or so lucky ?

The site is in Chinese

I think it's because FE4's list of RNGs is fixed, so after much trial and error, one could figure it out.

I have a save of one their playthroughs(not sure if it's low turns or just ranking). Jamka|Faval can take down a 45 HP Julius in one go. He got to Julius and saved Julia in 16 turns

Edited April 4, 2010 by Sidney Crysby

[Mekkah]

Is that run using Rescue Staff Lachesis? If so, I might as well give up on my lowturn vids. :(

[Aquilae]

Yes it is. Lachesis promoted in Chapter 4, and they recommend getting her to 15 by Chapter 3 (@_@). FE4 has a fixed RNG like FE7, so they just used Map Saves and a random scrub in the Arena to reroll RNs. I can provide a rough translation of their strategy if you like.

The RNG hax isn't that ridiculous, though you do need to ensure that you grow certain stats, like for Lachesis correct HP and Def to activate Prayer, for Sigurd enough to ORKO / 2RKO bosses and the like.

[chrysalid]

I was thinking one of the romances for the Rescue staff would probably be necessary for turncounts, even if it wasn't Azel's chapter 4 version. It's not like just having a decent Lester is shaving multiple turns. Do they do Azel/Aideen and Claude/Fury so that Sety can have it in chapter 8 or Claude/Aideen so you have A staff Lana in chapter 6?

Edited April 4, 2010 by chrysalid

[Dat Nick]

This is a Generation 1 tier list, Generation 2 is irrelevant.

[chrysalid]

That link is pretty much off topic for this tier list anyway - it's a tool-assisted speedrun with chosen RNs. I'm just curious outside the scope of this thread. The Azel/Aideen vs. Claude/Aideen thing is the difference between getting the Rescue staff in Ch 4 vs. Ch 5 so it's pertinent for gen 1 anyway.

[SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre]

I was thinking one of the romances for the Rescue staff would probably be necessary for turncounts, even if it wasn't Azel's chapter 4 version. It's not like just having a decent Lester is shaving multiple turns. Do they do Azel/Aideen and Claude/Fury so that Sety can have it in chapter 8 or Claude/Aideen so you have A staff Lana in chapter 6?

Well, in the save I have, the AzelxAideen, with a ridiculously inflated Lester(waaaay too much strength and defense). Not sure if it's lowturns though, but still, being done with the Final Chapter in 16 turns is insane, especially since he also saved Julia in the process

I followed suit a long time ago in building up a 100-kill Hero Sword just like they did.

I've attached that save. His Lester was RNG-abused big time.

267.zip

[chrysalid]

Those links aside, I think Azel/Aideen should probably be assumed for gen 1 efficiency. There is just too much potential for cutting turns off here and there with the ridiculous full double-moving you can do with dancer+Rescuer. Skipping the romance altogether or doing the hero bow or something has microscopic turn-saving potential.

[Mekkah]

Yes it is. Lachesis promoted in Chapter 4, and they recommend getting her to 15 by Chapter 3 (@_@). FE4 has a fixed RNG like FE7, so they just used Map Saves and a random scrub in the Arena to reroll RNs. I can provide a rough translation of their strategy if you like.

The RNG hax isn't that ridiculous, though you do need to ensure that you grow certain stats, like for Lachesis correct HP and Def to activate Prayer, for Sigurd enough to ORKO / 2RKO bosses and the like.

I'd really appreciate this as it'll help me in making my Ch4 lowturn video. There's no continuity in that (so I can have an army of promoted dudes helping out, including promoted Dew with 1 more move) so it won't be entirely like that run. Hopefully I can do it in, say, 15.

Edited April 4, 2010 by Mekkah