Casuals!

[Urvin1]

Even though the gaiden chapters were there to help struggling players, the requirements for them still suck a load lot of monkey.

I'm glad we're getting another FE game. Its a remake, but I'm happy with it. It kinda renews my hope that IS will remake other past FE titles.

[Sophius]

It kinda renews my hope that IS will remake other past FE titles.

Why, so they can nerf those too? Why do they have to add in all these ridicuous features just to make the game easier and more "casual friendly." There is actually a distinct possibility that the "casual mode" marcketing tactic could actually be detrimental to nintendo sales. First off, not only do they deter devoted "hardcore players" with their ninny catering, they lose the majority of the fans they pick up when the discover all the prior,(and might I add marginally better) games not only have this feature absent but refute it. Not to mention that, due to time constraints, they end up spending so much time on the semi-useless gimmicks that they have less time for the actual meat that makes games decent. Also, there is a good possibility that because of these gimmicks, the designers will(uninttentionally or not) take on the mentality that they do not need to put as much work into the games or make them as good, since the gimmicks will make up for them.(which, if they payed atttention to the movie industry and their 3D effects,is not true). Thats the mistake they made with shadow dragon and likely , it will be even worse here.

[Rewjeo]

Uh, YOU CAN PLAY CLASSIC MODE.

But, sure, you can freak out at them for trying to make the series more popular while giving us exactly what we want- Classic Mode and higher difficulties.

If you're that upset about the My Unit, think of it not as a Role-Play character, but as a way to artificially affect difficulty. You can make the best possible or worst possible if you want. Or you can use the default.

[Sophius]

Believe me when i say "classic" mode will be nerfed too. And what will the higher difficulties be? The exact same scenario with overpowered ennimies. Besides the leap from "normal" to "hard" I doubt there will be any changes in unit number, positioning, equipment or anything else that discerned difficulty modes in prior games other than enemy stats.

Edited June 4, 2010 by Sophius

[Rodykitty]

Get out.

[Sophius]

The reason you would say such a thing in that exact manner is that you are afraid, and a part of you knows, that what I'm saying is likely true but you don't want to believe it..

[Don Draper]

Believe me when i say "classic" mode will be nerfed too. And what will the higher difficulties be? The exact same scenario with overpowered ennimies. Besides the leap from "normal" to "hard" I doubt there will be any changes in unit number, positioning, equipment or anything else that discerned difficulty modes in prior games other than enemy stats.

How can you nerf classic mode? Characters only die permanently half the time? No, the sole attribute defining classic mode is "Characters die permanently". You're making baseless accusations, and coming across as ignorant in the process.

I also find it hilarious that somebody whose favorite FE game is Radiant Dawn is talking about nerfed difficulty modes. Radiant Dawn's HM TOOK OUT established game mechanics like the weapon triangle and viewing enemy movement, the later which did nothing but make the game 100x more tedious since you had to do it manually. Also, Radiant Dawn HM was a joke after Part 1 being approximately the same difficulty as NM and presenting no challenge whatsoever. You want to talk about nerfed difficulty modes? Look no further then your favorite FE.

[Ike-Mike]

[...]

Dude, I think you need to refresh your Malstrom a bit.

Especially this one since it deconstructs the entire fallacy your assumptions are based on.

I for one see FE as a series that can and should achieve mainstream success if put a few right tweaks into. And yes, I see Casual Mode as a right tweak.

Edited June 4, 2010 by Ike-Mike

[Anouleth]

Believe me when i say "classic" mode will be nerfed too. And what will the higher difficulties be? The exact same scenario with overpowered ennimies. Besides the leap from "normal" to "hard" I doubt there will be any changes in unit number, positioning, equipment or anything else that discerned difficulty modes in prior games other than enemy stats.

If you have 6 difficulty modes, you obviously cannot make all of them unique and varied experiences. And aside from Blazing Sword, I don't recall any Fire Emblems that radically changed things around between Normal and Hard mode. Perhaps that was the case in FE4 and 5, but I wouldn't know.

And your claim that classic mode will also be nerfed is completely baseless.

[grandjackal]

If you have 6 difficulty modes, you obviously cannot make all of them unique and varied experiences. And aside from Blazing Sword, I don't recall any Fire Emblems that radically changed things around between Normal and Hard mode. Perhaps that was the case in FE4 and 5, but I wouldn't know.

FE4 gave you a toggle to make the enemies less stupid but still just as helpless to beat you, and FE5 actually gave you an easier mode, not that FE5 is hard.

[Furby]

On the one hand, Casual mode will bring in people who were turned off by the idea of losing units when they screw up.

On the other hand, we're bringing in people who like a game solely for the fact that we are emitting something that as been a feature in the series for ever.

I'd much rather not have the option, to be honest.

[Anouleth]

Options are generally a good thing. If you don't like it, don't pick it.

I certainly think it's a dumb idea to refuse to buy the game just out of spite for this addition.

Dude, I think you need to refresh your Malstrom a bit.

Especially this one since it deconstructs the entire fallacy your assumptions are based on.

I for one see FE as a series that can and should achieve mainstream success if put a few right tweaks into. And yes, I see Casual Mode as a right tweak.

I like the article (I'm reading it now :D ), and I can see how it's relevant, especially when it talks about consumers moving 'upmarket'.

[AstraLunaSol]

*sigh* Really? "Casual mode" "Taking out the perma death thing"

How low can IS get? ._.

Yeah, no thank you Casual Mode.

[Rakath]

On the one hand, Casual mode will bring in people who were turned off by the idea of losing units when they screw up.

On the other hand, we're bringing in people who like a game solely for the fact that we are emitting something that as been a feature in the series for ever.

I'd much rather not have the option, to be honest.

See, that's an odd stance to take.

I mean, I plan to play on Classic Mode, an upper difficulty (I didn't for SD because I like Frey and Norne) with low tier units.

Why am I okay with Casual Mode? So when someone talks about Fire Emblem: New Mystery I can be a pretentious jerk and say "Oh, you're playing on Casual mode. Well, I suppose that's okay..."

[Rewjeo]

*sigh* Really? "Casual mode" "Taking out the perma death thing"

How low can IS get? ._.

Yeah, no thank you Casual Mode.

It's called getting new players.

Unless you just mean you wouldn't want to play it. Actually, I think it might be kinda good. I could try merciless/lunatic in casual so as to make it easier at first. Y'know, make the transition.

[Furby]

Why am I okay with Casual Mode? So when someone talks about Fire Emblem: New Mystery I can be a pretentious jerk and say "Oh, you're playing on Casual mode. Well, I suppose that's okay..."

... You call my stance odd, yet yours is essentially that you like it so you can rub people's faces in playing it the true way.

Anyway, here's what I for see:

Either A), we'll get a bunch of people that play this, then go to the older games and bitch that "They are impossibly hard," (In fact, A isn't an "either;" It will happen),

or B ) IS'll take however the game is received as a step in the "right" direction; If the game is accepted, they'll think they should make the game more player forgiving, and if it's hated, it should be more difficult,

or C) It's an experiment, they'll drop it the next game, and people will bitch that their casual mode disappeared.

Well, ok, C's the only real "Either" there, but.

Edited June 6, 2010 by Furby

[AstraLunaSol]

It's called getting new players.

Unless you just mean you wouldn't want to play it. Actually, I think it might be kinda good. I could try merciless/lunatic in casual so as to make it easier at first. Y'know, make the transition.

I got that far. >_>

What I'm wondering is would they change the death quotes or not.

[Rewjeo]

Hmm, they'd probably add retreat quotes so that it makes sense, but I dunno.

[Anouleth]

... You call my stance odd, yet yours is essentially that you like it so you can rub people's faces in playing it the true way.

Anyway, here's what I for see:

Either A), we'll get a bunch of people that play this, then go to the older games and bitch that "They are impossibly hard," (In fact, A isn't an "either;" It will happen),

Yes, because after all, there are no gamers who started on easier, later titles and eventually progressed to more difficult titles. After all, absolutely nobody on this board started off playing the relatively easy FE7, FE8 and FE9, they obviously started with FE4, 5 and 6.

The games have been weakened before. I'm sure when FE7 announced, there were a hundred Japanese fanboys who bewailed it as the end of the series and the collapse of everything good about Fire Emblem and thought the games would get dumber and dumber to accomodate stupid Americans. They were wrong. This is no different.

or B ) IS'll take however the game is received as a step in the "right" direction; If the game is accepted, they'll think they should make the game more player forgiving, and if it's hated, it should be more difficult,

IS aren't idiots. They made FE7 easy, they made FE8 easy, but lo and behold FE9 still had maniac mode (admittedly, we didn't get it, but that's more to do with them underestimating American 'casual' audiences) and FE10 was still very difficult and complex, and FEDS got H5.

And I hate this kind of arrogant assumption that because these gamers are 'new' or more 'casual' than gamers experienced with FE, then obviously they could never learn to enjoy the games. A few years ago, I was completely new to Fire Emblem myself, and it wasn't until I played Fire Emblem 8 (which is often derided by many experienced gamers as 'too casual') that I was introduced to it, and I've gone on to play and enjoy more difficult Fire Emblems. In fact, the series as a whole has somewhat turned me against simpler, easier RPGs.

[Rakath]

Furby, the thing is, my stance isn't built on the idea that people can't get better. Mine is also built that people sometimes need to start at easier and step up to hard, and that you can't just start on the most challenging set-up.

On A: Yes, some people will have that reaction. Most, however, will react 'wow, these games are much harder than the one I played' and, well, get better. I started on Seven, which by compare to the other games is easy as hell. Did you start on the game instantly perfect at every chapter playing a flawless ranked run?

On B: That is under the idea IS is run by idiots who can't plot in two directions. Let's take Shadow Dragon as an example, five levels of hard mode for easily bored players. Gaiden Chapters and Faceless recruits for weaker players. FE13 is giving another direction for forgiving players, but it is NOT mutually exclusive to challenging players.

On C: IS has two experiments going this game, experiments are how a game grows and stops from being stale. FE7 added the Tactician system as a test, it didn't take. FE8 tried dual promotion routes, didn't keep either. FE9 split Str and Mag. That took. I'm figuring faceless units will return from FE11 too.

I forget, have all Fire Emblem games had difficulty settings, or was that an experiment at one point? "Oh no they added a 'Hard mode' soon everything in the game will be impossible for casual players."

[Anouleth]

The first FE to have a Hard Mode was FE6, but FE5 had Elite Mode, which made the game easier by increasing experience gains. FE7 was the first to have a proper Easy Mode.

[Furby]

Yes, because after all, there are no gamers who started on easier, later titles and eventually progressed to more difficult titles. After all, absolutely nobody on this board started off playing the relatively easy FE7, FE8 and FE9, they obviously started with FE4, 5 and 6.

The games have been weakened before. I'm sure when FE7 announced, there were a hundred Japanese fanboys who bewailed it as the end of the series and the collapse of everything good about Fire Emblem and thought the games would get dumber and dumber to accomodate stupid Americans. They were wrong. This is no different.

There's a difference between a mode and an entire game. Also a difference between a staple of the game and it's difficulty.

IS aren't idiots. They made FE7 easy, they made FE8 easy, but lo and behold FE9 still had maniac mode (admittedly, we didn't get it, but that's more to do with them underestimating American 'casual' audiences) and FE10 was still very difficult and complex, and FEDS got H5.

And I hate this kind of arrogant assumption that because these gamers are 'new' or more 'casual' than gamers experienced with FE, then obviously they could never learn to enjoy the games. A few years ago, I was completely new to Fire Emblem myself, and it wasn't until I played Fire Emblem 8 (which is often derided by many experienced gamers as 'too casual') that I was introduced to it, and I've gone on to play and enjoy more difficult Fire Emblems. In fact, the series as a whole has somewhat turned me against simpler, easier RPGs.

I'm not saying some won't. Quite a few will. The majority won't. It's happened.

Furby, the thing is, my stance isn't built on the idea that people can't get better. Mine is also built that people sometimes need to start at easier and step up to hard, and that you can't just start on the most challenging set-up.

I'm fully aware. It also sounded like you were going to rub it into people's faces that you play regular, so I was making a bit of a joke.

On A: Yes, some people will have that reaction. Most, however, will react 'wow, these games are much harder than the one I played' and, well, get better. I started on Seven, which by compare to the other games is easy as hell. Did you start on the game instantly perfect at every chapter playing a flawless ranked run?

Yes.

I'm not saying there won't be people who won't be like that. The majority of the people who will pick up this game on that news, though? No, I doubt they will. Call me a pessimist.

On B: That is under the idea IS is run by idiots who can't plot in two directions. Let's take Shadow Dragon as an example, five levels of hard mode for easily bored players. Gaiden Chapters and Faceless recruits for weaker players. FE13 is giving another direction for forgiving players, but it is NOT mutually exclusive to challenging players.

I've seen it done, but I'll concede the point.

On C: IS has two experiments going this game, experiments are how a game grows and stops from being stale. FE7 added the Tactician system as a test, it didn't take. FE8 tried dual promotion routes, didn't keep either. FE9 split Str and Mag. That took. I'm figuring faceless units will return from FE11 too.

I'm wondering how they could have known the thing from FE7, since I don't think anyone complained about that, but whatever. The real problem with experiments like this is, unless you're going to go poll large gatherings of your players (Japanese and (now) international), the only real way to judge what is a success is what sells.

I forget, have all Fire Emblem games had difficulty settings, or was that an experiment at one point? "Oh no they added a 'Hard mode' soon everything in the game will be impossible for casual players."

DIFFICULTY SETTINGS WILL KILL US ALL

For the record? I know how I sounded before, but I'm not against difficulty levels. I'm against modes or functions that take out functions of a game.

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

The first FE to have a Hard Mode was FE6, but FE5 had Elite Mode, which made the game easier by increasing experience gains. FE7 was the first to have a proper Easy Mode.

FE2 also had an easy mode, right? I know it wasn't a "proper" one, but surely that counts.

[Anouleth]

Oh, I have no idea.

*checks*

Well, you're right, it does exist. But given they took it out of the series for five games (like many of the additions in fe2), I think they decided it was a mistake. They brought it back just for us stupid westerners - don't I feel special

[Rodykitty]

Casual mode is OPTIONAL.

OMG end of the world