Black Knight's Armor

[Xiltas Crysten]

This kept me uneasy for a while now: Who WAS the Black Knight? And I don't mean Zelgius, but the first man to wear this armor.

When Zelgius/BK explained to Ike in FE9 why he couldn't hurt him, he said that no weapon can hurt him, because his armor was blessed by Ashera.

But when we think back, there were only 4 people fighting for her: Soan, Deghinsea, Lehran and Altina. Both of Altina's swords were blessed, Alondite and Ragnell, but I highly doubt that she wore this big and bulky armor, since she was a woman of average size and body. She may was strong enough to wield her heavy swords (wasn't she called the dual swordswoman or something?), but I don't think she would have ever used an armor.

So where did it come from? Since it was blessed, only Lehran/Sephiran could have possessed it, but it absolutely makes no sense, 'cause I'm pretty sure that Lehran couldn't have blessed it.

And one last thing: Ashnard wore a similar armor as the Black Knight, and his sword Gurgurant had similar abilities like Alondite and Ragnell, but it was never in possession of Altina...

Has anybody got an idea where BKs and Ashnard's armor originally come from?

[Chocolate Kitty]

I remember a convo between them when bk arrived back in daein saying that he got ashnard's special armor for him, but i don't remember anything about the gurgurant being blessed... I thought it was just the daein family's sword. It gave no stat bonuses either. I think sepheran is behind the both armors though, he may have just lied and said they were blessed when really he just beefed them up with his magic.

[Magna]

There's several theories behind it. Some say they were blessed by Yune (hence the black color instead of Gold by Ashera) and that Ashera blessed weapons to pierce those armours Yune had blessed. The biggest flaw this theory has is that Yune, when blessing your weapons in RD, says she'll use Ashera's technique, suggesting that she never blessed anything before.

Another one I heard is that they could be for the laguz (when untransformed) that accompanied Altina, being the BK's Soan's armour and Ashnard's Dheg's. This doesn't hold much ground because it wouldn't really make sense Dheg letting the armour go.

The last one I remember is that there were 3 heroes but they had an army just like Ike and those blessed armors were part of people who fought for Ashera but that were forgotten.

Edited July 29, 2010 by Magna

[Narga_Rocks]

I remember a convo between them when bk arrived back in daein saying that he got ashnard's special armor for him, but i don't remember anything about the gurgurant being blessed... I thought it was just the daein family's sword. It gave no stat bonuses either. I think sepheran is behind the both armors though, he may have just lied and said they were blessed when really he just beefed them up with his magic.

Well, the armor prevents people that aren't Tibarn/Naesala/Ike(w/Ragnell)/Nasir/Ena/Giffca from hurting him. His sword prevents non-wrath critical hits (just like Ragnell and Alondite, and I'm still annoyed they don't do the same in RD) and has 1-2 range (also just like the twin swords). I don't know about you, but that seems pretty blessed to me. I don't see what kind of "magic" you think Sephiran has, but I can't imagine he can pull that off.

[Fenrir]

i...never even thought about this, good point, most likely it was for high ranking members of the army, like how you take 16 people to endgame or sumthing, these belonged to others in the party.

[Magna]

His sword prevents non-wrath critical hits (just like Ragnell and Alondite, and I'm still annoyed they don't do the same in RD)

Ike would no longer fear Thunder magic, only dying if he would be gangbanged by magic users while not being close to his support partner.

Maybe this is a way to not make Ike even more overly broken by IS? Since it's so pointless, I guess they were just lazy to not have to program each character to be impervious to crits if they had Alondite equipped. In PoR it's easier since it's restricted to 3 characters only.

EDIT: I'm eating so many words in my setences it's not even funny...

Edited July 29, 2010 by Magna

[Fenrir]

I think aether being skill/2 made him not entierly broken, and he only has ragnell for like 4 chapters + endgame right?

[RNG Princess]

I think Fenrir is right maybe it belonged to somebody else in that past army, or maybe Zelgius/BK is also really old. I'd like to play that game :3 explaining the past and see the anscestors of my favorite characters or not.

[Charpig]

Ike would no longer fear Thunder magic, only dying if he would be gangbanged by magic users while not being close to his support partner.

Maybe this is a way to not make Ike even more overly broken by IS? Since it's so pointless, I guess they were just lazy to not have to program each character to be impervious to crits if they had Alondite equipped. In PoR it's easier since it's restricted to 3 characters only.

IS did program every character to get a +5 stat bonus in Easy Mode endgame, so critical immunity would not have been that far of a stretch.

I'm actually more interested in how the Black Knight lost his armor's blessing than how he obtained it in the first place. It could be that blessings wear off over time, but Dheginsea had a "resilient blessing," so maybe the blessings are different for each case.

[Anouleth]

IS did program every character to get a +5 stat bonus in Easy Mode endgame, so critical immunity would not have been that far of a stretch.

I'm actually more interested in how the Black Knight lost his armor's blessing than how he obtained it in the first place. It could be that blessings wear off over time, but Dheginsea had a "resilient blessing," so maybe the blessings are different for each case.

I suppose Ike probably destroyed the blessing in PoR. BK's armor is really beat up when you see him again, so it could be that.

I think that like the Warp Powder that BK uses, it's a treasure hidden in the Tower of Guidance that only Lehran would have access to. He would have given it to his catspaw, Zelgius, and Zelgius might have requested an extra set for Ashnard to earn his trust.

No idea about Gurgurant, though. Like all final boss weapons (Erishkigal, Naglfar, Gurgurant, Creiddyladd), it's never really explained or even seen again, so I'm not going to think too hard on this one.

Edited July 30, 2010 by Slowking

[Light Lord]

Just to clear out the doubt, because I also had it, the blessing that both armors have is not a real Ashera blessing.

When in the prison cells map in PoR, Sephiran has the skill Mantle, which is the equivalent to Deghinsea's and his blessing in Part 4 Endgame of the RD game, which is the real Ashera Blessing.

In PoR, we see that neither the Black Knight or Ashnard has such skill, which leads me to believe they have a minor blessing of some kind (pretty probable Sephiran's magic or something granted by the Galdr) that reduces damage of most weapons to 0, except Ragnell.

As for the origin of the armors, I support Sephiran's doing.

Zelgius worked under Sephiran ALL the time; as the Black Knight, he approached King Ashnard and gave him the armor with the blessing both armors shared.

As for Gurgurant, that sword is a belonging of Ashnard, it was no gift from Sephiran or Zelgius. Remember, even if Ashnard says his dragon, his armor and weapon were given by the Black Knight (FE 9 conversation), the dragon and weapon were already under his command when he secured the throne of Daein slaying his family and any other rightful heir to it.

[Fenrir]

I think Fenrir is right maybe it belonged to somebody else in that past army, or maybe Zelgius/BK is also really old. I'd like to play that game :3 explaining the past and see the anscestors of my favorite characters or not.

a "pre-quel" would be cool, but id like to see a sequel with ike in other lands, that could lead into another series.

Just to clear out the doubt, because I also had it, the blessing that both armors have is not a real Ashera blessing.

When in the prison cells map in PoR, Sephiran has the skill Mantle, which is the equivalent to Deghinsea's and his blessing in Part 4 Endgame of the RD game, which is the real Ashera Blessing.

In PoR, we see that neither the Black Knight or Ashnard has such skill, which leads me to believe they have a minor blessing of some kind (pretty probable Sephiran's magic or something granted by the Galdr) that reduces damage of most weapons to 0, except Ragnell.

As for the origin of the armors, I support Sephiran's doing.

Zelgius worked under Sephiran ALL the time; as the Black Knight, he approached King Ashnard and gave him the armor with the blessing both armors shared.

As for Gurgurant, that sword is a belonging of Ashnard, it was no gift from Sephiran or Zelgius. Remember, even if Ashnard says his dragon, his armor and weapon were given by the Black Knight (FE 9 conversation), the dragon and weapon were already under his command when he secured the throne of Daein slaying his family and any other rightful heir to it.

its not "real"??? how so? swords were blessed "for real" so why would armour be any different??

I doubt seph is powerful enough to make armour that cannot be harmed by regular weapons, if he was indeed this strong he would virtually be a god. Also it states in the game it was a blessing of Ashera.

BK didn't have skill because of a lack of soul??

[Furby]

And one last thing: Ashnard wore a similar armor as the Black Knight, and his sword Gurgurant had similar abilities like Alondite and Ragnell, but it was never in possession of Altina...

Gurgurant... wasn't a special blade in any sense. The only thing unique to it besides it's stats was that it was Ashnard only. It didn't have the ability to pierce Mantle, so it wasn't blessed, not only in the story or the game sense.

As for the armor, the Black Knight specifically said at some point that he brought Ashnard's armor to him. From where it came, though... :/

Edited July 30, 2010 by Furby

[Narga_Rocks]

Gurgurant... wasn't a special blade in any sense. The only thing unique to it besides it's stats was that it was Ashnard only. It didn't have the ability to pierce Mantle, so it wasn't blessed, not only in the story or the game sense.

It's not like you can tell if it pierces anything. Well, there is probably a "code" on Ragnell in fe9 that lets it do that. But even if that "code" isn't on Ashnard's weapon, I have to ask if it is even on Alondite. After all, there wouldn't have been any point in the designers making Alondite able to damage BK and Ashnard.

Also, don't forget that the thing is stronger than Ragnell and has 1-2 range, is unbreakable, and negates non-wrath criticals.

Really, I'd have to suggest that all the unbreakable beorc weapons (including Amiti) got some kind of blessing at one time or another. Now, that blessing would be stronger or weaker depending on the importance to Ashera of the wielder, but I can't see any other explanation for how they came to be unbreakable (while so much else is not).

[Furby]

It's not like you can tell if it pierces anything. Well, there is probably a "code" on Ragnell in fe9 that lets it do that. But even if that "code" isn't on Ashnard's weapon, I have to ask if it is even on Alondite. After all, there wouldn't have been any point in the designers making Alondite able to damage BK and Ashnard.

They didn't add it to Alondite, no. But rather than any code, it's just a value for the weapon's ability, just like the 2x attack for the Brave Sword. I didn't poke at it extensively back then, but I'm fairly sure if you felt like hacking FE9 you could make a brave sword version of Gurgurant with Mantle voiding abilities (Well, this is speculation, but there is no reason for it not to work).

On that note, though, it is entirely possible to give anyone Ragnell using abilities, so they can all kill Ashnard. :3

EDIT: Oh, I didn't address it. I hacked a character to use Gurgurant (IIRC, I did it to Greil for funsies) and had them attack Ashnard with it, which did no damage. Max Strength included. Similar deal with Alondite testing, but I think I used The Black Knight for that one.

Edited July 30, 2010 by Furby

[Kinata]

Really, I'd have to suggest that all the unbreakable beorc weapons (including Amiti) got some kind of blessing at one time or another. Now, that blessing would be stronger or weaker depending on the importance to Ashera of the wielder, but I can't see any other explanation for how they came to be unbreakable (while so much else is not).

Trainers and Practice Axes are unbreakable. Wouldn't it be cool if that meant they are blessed and are capable of damaging the BK?

I believe the armor was blessed by Yune because it is black, and just as Yune has to bless weapons to break Ashera's mantle, Ashera blessed Ragnell and Alondite to damage Yune's armor. Notice how Ragnell and Alondite are capable of piercing BK's armor (plot-wise, not programming-wise for Alondite), but Yune needs to bless them to pierce Mantle, showing Mantle and BK's armor are different. That is why BK didn't have Mantle in FE9.

[Narga_Rocks]

Trainers and Practice Axes are unbreakable. Wouldn't it be cool if that meant they are blessed and are capable of damaging the BK?

I'd think for those they are simply so cheaply made that you can't tell the difference. I hardly think that an iron sword simply falls to pieces after precisely 40/45/46/50 swings (depending on the game). It is probably just that it is no longer what it was. Now it has nicks all over it and is rusted or whatever. I'd imagine a practice sword and training axe are full of nicks and scratches. They simply don't affect performance at all since it never was much to begin with.

(fe4 is not in Tellius, so I'm ignoring their broken weapons with 0 mt and 30 wt)

I believe the armor was blessed by Yune because it is black, and just as Yune has to bless weapons to break Ashera's mantle, Ashera blessed Ragnell and Alondite to damage Yune's armor. Notice how Ragnell and Alondite are capable of piercing BK's armor (plot-wise, not programming-wise for Alondite), but Yune needs to bless them to pierce Mantle, showing Mantle and BK's armor are different. That is why BK didn't have Mantle in FE9.

It's possible, but someone earlier in the topic did point out that Yune's speech before 4-E-3 would seem to imply that she's never blessed anything before.

Of course, depending on her exact words, another possibility is that she was using the Ashera blessing as a reference point for the PCs to understand what she was about to do. They knew of Ashera's blessing and have seen Ragnell in action. Also she might not have wanted to remind them of Zelgius dying by saying "I'll bless your weapons like I blessed his armor (just don't let a building fall on your weapon or you'll lose the blessing)".

[Anouleth]

Yune says something among the lines of 'last time I failed, but this time will be different, I'll use her own tricks against her'. So I don't think she blessed anyone before.

I think that the armour could easily have been a cast-off from someone else who fought alongside Ashera against Yune and is now dead. I can't believe that only four people tried to stop the end of the world.

[Wooster]

The way I see it, there are three things that can or cannot be blessed: Armor, Weapons, and People.

Mantel would be an example of Ashera blessing a person

Event based Promotions are examples of Yune blessing a person

Alondite, Ragnell, (Amiti, Gurgurant?) Are examples of Ashera blessed weapons

Whatever you equip at endgame are Yune blessed weapons

Midas Touched disciples of Order are Ashera blessed armor

Black Knight's, Ashnard's armor Yune blessed Armor

They seem fairly evenly matched to me.