Golden Sun Class Tier List

[Life]

This is the list as I think it goes. Feel free to add your own suggestions and argue any of my placements. If there's more logic behind your reasoning than behind mine, the change gets made.

Also, we have 2 different lists since we're talking about two different games. If you want to argue a class up or down, make sure you specify the game. Golden Sun: Dark Dawn will be added as soon as it comes out and I get my mitts on it (I'll be in Israel at the time so it might be a bit hard, not to mention that I don't have a DS yet). The Golden Sun: The Lost Age list is not up yet due to me not having played it in over a year while I am currently in the middle of Golden Sun.

Now, a couple of things:

Golden Sun (1) Rules:

1. If you need formulae, everything is explained beautifully here. It's quite straightforward and well written. Use it well, young Padawan.

2. Not all status based psynergy is useless. Bind and Sleep both have useful periods. Impact and High Impact are invaluable. Break and Restore are also great. Please remember this before making a comment when I claim that x class is so high because they have access to Impact (and I will direct you to my 3 turn kill of the Killer Ape which involves Impact) or something similar. However, Curse is worthy of being made fun of and should be heckled at all times. No exceptions.

3. On the lists, I will list each class as the BASE class. If you come across an unfamiliar class during discussion, refer to this spoiler. Use Ctrl F to find the correct family.

Squire: Knight, Gallant, Lord

Brute: Ruffian, Savage, Barbarian, Berserker

Apprentice/Page: Illusionist, Enchanter, Conjurer

Swordsman: Defender, Cavalier, Guardian

Guard: Soldier, Warrior, Champion

Wind Seer: Magician, Mage, Magister

Hermit: Elder, Scholar, Savant, Sage

Seer: Diviner, Shaman, Druid

Pilgrim: Wanderer, Ascetic, Fire/Water Monk

Water Seer: Scribe, Cleric, Paragon

4. Availability with regards to classes like Samurai, White Mage, Ninja, ect... mean nothing if that class can trivialize the game from the time that you can access it. I do not see a reason to dock points simply because certain Djinn don't exist earlier in the game. It's like saying that swords are better than guns simply because they've been around since people have been beating each other over the head with shit. That reasoning forgets that a gun can blow a hole in your face before you can say "Draw". Same reasoning here.

5. We are assuming that all 28 Djinni are found. What this means is that you return to northern Angara to get both Kite (Vale) and Sap (Vault) as soon as you get to Kalay. It also means that Taodonpa is defeated and you receive Tonic from Donpa immediately after getting the Cloak Ball from Babi. This is after Colosso is over and is not dependent on whether Isaac beat Navampa or not in the final round. You can always get the Cloak Ball from Babi since the official prize is the Lure Cap.

6. Max PP is not guaranteed for boss battles. The only battles where it is (to my knowledge) are Saturos on Mercury Lighthouse and Saturos/Menardi on Venus Lighthouse. Keep in mind that this does not count the Twin Dragon (since you don't have max PP for that fight) or Deadbeard unless there is a Psynergy stone on Level 9 of Crossbone Isle after the door battle. Which I cannot remember.

Golden Sun Tier List

I am Chuck Norris tier:

Hermit

White Mage

Ninja

Apprentice/Page

Call me... Batman tier:

Cavalier (Mia)

Samurai

Dragoon

Brute

Ascetic (Garet)

Welcome to the Joe Schmo Show tier:

Enchanter (Ivan)

Seer

Swordsman

Pilgrim

Ranger

Squire

God, you suck tier:

Wind Seer

Shaman (Isaac)

Medium

Guard

Water Seer

Princess Peach Tier:

Flame User

These are my personal thoughts on how the classes rank. I'm really sure that parts of it are wrong but I think the best way to have the tier list is 4 tiers (bottom one is Jenna's class at the beginning of the game).

Edited October 22, 2010 by Sue Sylvester

[Suichimo]

Ninja is totally in Chuck Norris tier.

Absolutely phenomenal stats along with a great line up of psynergy including *3* EPAs with Death Leap/Plunge, Annihilation, and Shuriken(this being a 3 target EPA).

http://goldensun.wikia.com/wiki/Ninja

In my opinion, easily the best class for any of your melee character, including your secondary melees like Jenna in TLA.

P.S. Psynergy like Impact aren't status psynergy. Those are your general stat raiser that are almost always invaluable. I fully believe that actual status psynergy should be mocked at every corner.

Edited September 17, 2010 by Suichimo

[Narga_Rocks]

Ninja is totally in Chuck Norris tier.

Absolutely phenomenal stats along with a great line up of psynergy including *3* EPAs with Death Leap/Plunge, Annihilation, and Shuriken(this being a 3 target EPA).

http://goldensun.wikia.com/wiki/Ninja

In my opinion, easily the best class for any of your melee character, including your secondary melees like Jenna in TLA.

P.S. Psynergy like Impact aren't status psynergy. Those are your general stat raiser that are almost always invaluable. I fully believe that actual status psynergy should be mocked at every corner.

Except curse. It's fun letting an enemy pound on you for 7 rounds while you could have just killed it 3 to 7 rounds ago.

[Life]

Ninja has been moved to I am Chuck Norris tier for right now until I get the chance to test it out. What's it, 3 Wind and 3 Fire/Earth?

Edited September 17, 2010 by 4chan

[Kriemhild]

Ninja has been moved to I am Chuck Norris tier for right now until I get the chance to test it out. What's it, 3 Wind and 3 Fire/Earth?

Yes

I would go as far as put Ninja above Page. In fact, I don't understand why Page and Apprentice are considered together. Apprentice gets earlygame Gaia, which secures its position, whereas Page does not get any attack more than single-target ones until Lv 24. Volcano is nowhere near as reliable as Gaia, which only has 5 less base power but hits three targets.

[Paperblade]

Kamina tier:

Summon Rush

I am Chuck Norris tier:

Hermit

White Mage

Apprentice/Page

Ninja

Call me... Batman tier:

Seer

Shaman (Isaac)

Samurai

Cavalier (Mia)

Dragoon

Welcome to the Joe Schmo Show tier:

Enchanter (Ivan)

Squire

Ascetic (Garet)

Brute

Swordsman

Pilgrim

God, you suck tier:

Wind Seer

Medium

Guard

Ranger

Water Seer

Princess Peach Tier:

Flame User

fix'd

On a more serious note:

Page can't do anything other than Impact, Apprentice is okay. Swordsman, Seer, and Pilgrim are slightly different based on the element of the adept (for example, Venus Swordsman gets Revive whereas Mars Swordsman gets Protect).

You're forgetting Mariner (lololololol), Pierrot (even worse), Dark Mage (has Revive and Call Dullahan, but that's it), and Tamer is balling (a revive, AoE heal, status removal, AND High Impact? I'll take ten. Sure, Manticore heals 300 HP vs. Pure Wish's 400 and costs nearly twice as much, but it's gotten nearly 10 levels earlier).

The only reason Tamer would be worse than a class like Hermit is versus Djinn Storm bosses (of which there are exactly two, one of which the best strategy is Summon Rush), since Hermit regains the Wish line before Tamer gets an AoE heal.

However I would also argue that Golden Sun is easy enough that none of this matters.

Edited September 17, 2010 by Paperblade

[Life]

Page can't do anything other than Impact, Apprentice is okay. Swordsman, Seer, and Pilgrim are slightly different based on the element of the adept (for example, Venus Swordsman gets Revive whereas Mars Swordsman gets Protect).

Page/Apprentice get great magic psynergy, great class bonuses (especially Garet since it gives him a huge PP and Agi bonus), Astral Blast and Drain right before the game ends. That's pretty much broken without getting Wish.

You're forgetting Mariner (lololololol), Pierrot (even worse), Dark Mage (has Revive and Call Dullahan, but that's it), and Tamer is balling (a revive, AoE heal, status removal, AND High Impact? I'll take ten. Sure, Manticore heals 300 HP vs. Pure Wish's 400 and costs nearly twice as much, but it's gotten nearly 10 levels earlier).

The only reason Tamer would be worse than a class like Hermit is versus Djinn Storm bosses (of which there are exactly two, one of which the best strategy is Summon Rush), since Hermit regains the Wish line before Tamer gets an AoE heal.

I haven't forgotten them. I've purposely not put them in. This is the first Golden Sun game.

On another note, it's possible that Pilgrim might be worse than Wind Mage. Still trying to figure this one out.

Edited September 17, 2010 by 4chan

[Kriemhild]

Page/Apprentice get great magic psynergy, great class bonuses (especially Garet since it gives him a huge PP and Agi bonus), Astral Blast and Drain right before the game ends. That's pretty much broken without getting Wish.

Ninja gets pure elemental Psynergy of three different elements. THREE!!! Even among the other tri-elemental classes, lolRanger is the only one that can make similar claims. Ninja also has EPA of two different elements and I don't think any other class has that. Ninja has a much better chance of hitting the enemy's weakness than any other class (except for lolRanger, which fails in all other fields).

Page's only magic psynergy is the Volcano series. Volcano hits a single target only, which makes it kinda useless when you have Astral Blast. Eruption comes at Lv 24, which is kinda late.

[Life]

Ninja gets pure elemental Psynergy of three different elements. THREE!!! Even among the other tri-elemental classes, lolRanger is the only one that can make similar claims. Ninja also has EPA of two different elements and I don't think any other class has that. Ninja has a much better chance of hitting the enemy's weakness than any other class (except for lolRanger, which fails in all other fields).

Page's only magic psynergy is the Volcano series. Volcano hits a single target only, which makes it kinda useless when you have Astral Blast. Eruption comes at Lv 24, which is kinda late.

Very good point except Page!Garet is so freaking useful in the earlygame. Like I'm going to shitstomp my way through Kolima Forest and Tret Tree useful. Page!Garet IS your offense against Tret. Sure we could switch him to Guard to also use Volcano (we're talking a measly 5 Power boost) or we can have Garet still be our offense but not weaken up Isaac or Ivan (Seer!Ivan is your healer since he's actually got PP to spare, unlike Squire!Isaac).

Edited September 17, 2010 by 4chan

[Suichimo]

Page/Apprentice get great magic psynergy, great class bonuses (especially Garet since it gives him a huge PP and Agi bonus), Astral Blast and Drain right before the game ends. That's pretty much broken without getting Wish.

They only get one of the Volcano series or the Gaia series along with Astral Blast. Early game, that might be useful but its going to lose luster quick especially once you can start changing classes to Ninja/Samurai/White Mage. Those three groups by themselves should probably be the Chuck Norris tier.

If you're worried about Garet he can either go Samurai, stays great as a Physical character and gains group buffs along with a couple of very nice EPAs, or you have enough Djinni to get a second Ninja.

[Paperblade]

Page/Apprentice get great magic psynergy, great class bonuses (especially Garet since it gives him a huge PP and Agi bonus), Astral Blast and Drain right before the game ends. That's pretty much broken without getting Wish.

I never had an issue with PP (then again I only use it to heal, buff, and traverse dungeons). I find most of the time that Djinn attacks are more effective than single target psynergy (Gust is the only one weaker than, say, Death Leap, and even that's only half the time), plus they don't cost PP and can be reset between combat.

I haven't forgotten them. I've purposely not put them in. This is the first Golden Sun game.

Bleah, saw TLA and meh.

On another note, it's possible that Pilgrim might be worse than Wind Mage. Still trying to figure this one out.

Doesn't Wind Mage have a ton of AoE and buff spells?

[Life]

They only get one of the Volcano series or the Gaia series along with Astral Blast. Early game, that might be useful but its going to lose luster quick especially once you can start changing classes to Ninja/Samurai/White Mage. Those three groups by themselves should probably be the Chuck Norris tier.

If you're worried about Garet he can either go Samurai, stays great as a Physical character and gains group buffs along with a couple of very nice EPAs, or you have enough Djinni to get a second Ninja.

Ninja and White Mage, yes. Samurai no.

I actually debated this one with Narga. The problem with Samurai is that the game might be over before you get your first EPA. Demon Night and Dragon Cloud are actually both spells and gotten at low levels. Narga told me that he finished the game at level 30-31, before Samurai gets Helm Splitter, never mind Quick Strike with its 180% Mult Mod. This is something that I need to test with the Lure Cap equipped, though.

The way that I'm looking at this list isn't an endgame list. It's a performance during the game from when you first get that class to the death of the Twin Dragon. I also don't think it's fair to penalize classes like Ninja or Samurai or White Mage because of that.

That means that the real question here is "Is Ninja's lategame abilities much better than what Apprentice/Page can do for us over the course of the game?". My money is on no for right now unless I can be convinced otherwise OR I find evidence (I'm still looking but Illusionist!Garet is kinda destroying Altin Mine right now along with Ruffian!Isaac) that's contradictory to my thoughts.

I never had an issue with PP (then again I only use it to heal, buff, and traverse dungeons). I find most of the time that Djinn attacks are more effective than single target psynergy (Gust is the only one weaker than, say, Death Leap, and even that's only half the time), plus they don't cost PP and can be reset between combat.

I kinda spam PP in battle to end battles quickly and without that much harm.

Doesn't Wind Mage have a ton of AoE and buff spells?

And the worst Defense in the game along with no healing moves and no way to take out Wind resistant enemies. However, I told Narga that I'm probably underrating Wind Sage by a million miles.

EDIT: Brute is going to rise over Squire for sure. The real question is what about Ascetic and Enchanter. But Brute is key for 3 turning the Killer Ape and 4 turning Hydros Statue. Who is absolutely pathetic since he's slow and his attacks don't do much. I started the battle damaged and only had to use Wish on Turn 3 to make sure that the Hydros Statue wouldn't get a lucky kill.

Edited September 17, 2010 by 4chan

[Suichimo]

Ninja and White Mage, yes. Samurai no.

I actually debated this one with Narga. The problem with Samurai is that the game might be over before you get your first EPA. Demon Night and Dragon Cloud are actually both spells and gotten at low levels. Narga told me that he finished the game at level 30-31, before Samurai gets Helm Splitter, never mind Quick Strike with its 180% Mult Mod. This is something that I need to test with the Lure Cap equipped, though.

The way that I'm looking at this list isn't an endgame list. It's a performance during the game from when you first get that class to the death of the Twin Dragon. I also don't think it's fair to penalize classes like Ninja or Samurai or White Mage because of that.

That means that the real question here is "Is Ninja's lategame abilities much better than what Apprentice/Page can do for us over the course of the game?". My money is on no for right now unless I can be convinced otherwise OR I find evidence (I'm still looking but Illusionist!Garet is kinda destroying Altin Mine right now along with Ruffian!Isaac) that's contradictory to my thoughts.

Then don't worry about the EPAs, though you will definitely be getting them in TLA when we get to it. You still have great stat boosts to fall back on along with your own stat boosters and a very competent set of Psynergy. If you don't want to do that, you certainly have a weapon worth unleashing to go with its great attack.

For the question. My money is on yes. Ninjas are complete beasts in combat. Obviously, they are even more beast with a friend to buff them*coughsamuraicough* and someone to heal for them, say the White Mage. That team really should not be taken down and you even get a fourth character to use. Mix in Kikuichimonji's with the Samurai and Ninja, but probably the Titan Blade for Isaac, and you got some awesome damage.

This setup leaves Mia out in the cold without a blanket though... So much easier to rearrange Djinni in TLA.

Edited September 17, 2010 by Suichimo

[Life]

For the question. My money is on yes. Ninjas are complete beasts in combat. Obviously, they are even more beast with a friend to buff them*coughsamuraicough* and someone to heal for them, say the White Mage. That team really should not be taken down and you even get a fourth character to use. Mix in Kikuichimonji's with the Samurai and Ninja, but probably the Titan Blade for Isaac, and you got some awesome damage.

But you're forgetting the fact that Apprentice/Page has been helping ever since we met Breeze in Bilibin.

Let me put it this way. Just because Ninja and Samurai exist, it does not mean that Apprentice/Page is obsolete. If we go Apprentice/Page during Suhalla (bad example since Suhalla is wind based but it's accurate) instead of Ninja, will we notice the downgrade? As in will it be such a downgrade that Ninja towers way overhead? No it isn't. Enchanter!Garet gets Eruption (90 Dam) at level 22 and has 140% PP class bonus, more than enough needed to spam it every turn from Suhalla to Timbucktu and that's assuming that he's not using Astral Blast against 94 Def and 110 Wind Resist. If Enchanter!Garet goes through with Eruption, he's got 104 Fire Power against 95 Fire Resist. Ninja!Garet could always got with Punji Trap instead of Shuriken/Death Plunge but that's 91 Earth Power against 90 Earth Resist.

This isn't even a win by the Ninja. Sure he's got exotic Psynergy. If he's not shitstomping Page!Garet between the time that we get him and the end of the game, he's not better than Page overall, especially when you consider that Page destroys Kolima Forest, Tret Tree and Altin Mine (possibly Mogall Forest too to an extent) in comparison to other classes.

Edited September 17, 2010 by 4chan

[IntegerZero]

Ninja gets pure elemental Psynergy of three different elements. THREE!!! Even among the other tri-elemental classes, lolRanger is the only one that can make similar claims. Ninja also has EPA of two different elements and I don't think any other class has that. Ninja has a much better chance of hitting the enemy's weakness than any other class (except for lolRanger, which fails in all other fields).

The Samurai would like to have a word with you about multi elemental EPAs. Quick Strike and Helm Splitter. Quick Strike has an amazing multiplier of 1.8. Yes 1.8. It also gets it's own ATT BOOSTING Psynergy spells on top of that. Even gets The Guard family.

Funny thing though. Lost Age Flame User is going to be significantly higher.

[Life]

The Samurai would like to have a word with you about multi elemental EPAs. Quick Strike and Helm Splitter. Quick Strike has an amazing multiplier of 1.8. Yes 1.8. It also gets it's own ATT BOOSTING Psynergy spells on top of that. Even gets The Guard family.

Hi. Yeah, about that. Quick Strike is less likely to be seen at all than Ragnarok in the battle against Saturos on Mercury Lighthouse and when you consider that I had to grind to get to level before that fight, that's saying something.

[Suichimo]

But you're forgetting the fact that Apprentice/Page has been helping ever since we met Breeze in Bilibin.

Let me put it this way. Just because Ninja and Samurai exist, it does not mean that Apprentice/Page is obsolete. If we go Apprentice/Page during Suhalla (bad example since Suhalla is wind based but it's accurate) instead of Ninja, will we notice the downgrade? As in will it be such a downgrade that Ninja towers way overhead? No it isn't. Enchanter!Garet gets Eruption (90 Dam) at level 22 and has 140% PP class bonus, more than enough needed to spam it every turn from Suhalla to Timbucktu and that's assuming that he's not using Astral Blast against 94 Def and 110 Wind Resist. If Enchanter!Garet goes through with Eruption, he's got 104 Fire Power against 95 Fire Resist. Ninja!Garet could always got with Punji Trap instead of Shuriken/Death Plunge but that's 91 Earth Power against 90 Earth Resist.

This isn't even a win by the Ninja. Sure he's got exotic Psynergy. If he's not shitstomping Page!Garet between the time that we get him and the end of the game, he's not better than Page overall, especially when you consider that Page destroys Kolima Forest, Tret Tree and Altin Mine (possibly Mogall Forest too to an extent) in comparison to other classes.

Eruption doesn't come until 24 for Enchanter!Garet, he gets Resist at 22. So you're using Volcano with a power of 45, because as an Enchanter that is his ONLY attacking Psynergy beyond Astral Blast. Ninja!Garet, however, picks up Cluster Bomb at 16, with a power of 65. And to match Astral Blast he has Death Plunge, which is stronger than Astral Blast, AND Shuriken for when you need that group EPA. He'll also have at least Typhoon, possibly Thunderbolt by the time you get to Venus Lighthouse.

Garet should be stomping any heavy fire weakness area into the ground. He's the fire Adept and Guard can do the job as well.

Funny thing though. Lost Age Flame User is going to be significantly higher.

Definitely.

[Kriemhild]

Samurai doesn't need Quick Strike to be great. It has really awesome stats (I'm fairly sure it has THE highest HP and Attack in Book 1, and still has very nice Defense), quite good attack Psynergy coming in two different elements, and support Psynergy that raise Atk, Def, and Res. It has Psynergy for ALL THREE OF THOSE STATS. I'm pretty sure none of the other classes has that many support options and even the ones that come close most likely have relatively poor combat skills. Samurai wins in both those aspects.

I'm still not convinced with Page's usefulness. Can he really walk all over the enemies of Kolima Forest and Tret Tree with only single-target Psynergies? I don't think so. He might own Tret the boss, because he's alone, but when it comes to generic monsters, I fail to see how Page can be a better choice than Brute (Blast), or even Guard (Flare Wall) for that matter. You get a Venus Djinn in Kolima so that makes two Venus. Give one to Garet, one to Ivan and the Mars to Isaac. You now have two people with Blast and Planet Diver and one with Cure. Still think Page is better?

Edited September 17, 2010 by Proto

[IntegerZero]

Hi. Yeah, about that. Quick Strike is less likely to be seen at all than Ragnarok in the battle against Saturos on Mercury Lighthouse and when you consider that I had to grind to get to level before that fight, that's saying something.

He was saying that Ninja was the only class that gets dual elemental EPAs. Just correcting that. No harm done. I just started drooling over Quick Strike. Pay that no mind.

[Suichimo]

Samurai doesn't need Quick Strike to be great. It has really awesome stats (I'm fairly sure it has THE highest HP and Attack in Book 1, and still has very nice Defense), quite good attack Psynergy coming in two different elements, and support Psynergy that raise Atk, Def, and Res. It has Psynergy for ALL THREE OF THOSE STATS. I'm pretty sure none of the other classes has that many support options and even the ones that come close most likely have relatively poor combat skills. Samurai wins in both those aspects.

Highest HP at 190%, second highest attack at 150%(only beaten by Ninja and Berserker), and I believe it has the highest Defense as well. It could use a bit more luck and agility but it is damn solid stat-wise. Psynergy selection is very nice as well with decent group psynergy mimicking the Gaia and Volcano series along with the stat boosters which are always useful.

[Kriemhild]

He was saying that Ninja was the only class that gets dual elemental EPAs. Just correcting that. No harm done. I just started drooling over Quick Strike. Pay that no mind.

Sorry about that, I forgot that Helm Splitter was Venus. Still, Samurai is already super awesome so this doesn't really tarnish Ninja's reputation.

Highest HP at 190%, second highest attack at 150%(only beaten by Ninja and Berserker), and I believe it has the highest Defense as well. It could use a bit more luck and agility but it is damn solid stat-wise. Psynergy selection is very nice as well with decent group psynergy mimicking the Gaia and Volcano series along with the stat boosters which are always useful.

Actually, Ninja has 150% Attack too but yeah, it loses to Berserker (160%). Master surpasses Ronin in TLA though. As for Defense, considering that it ties with Dragoon and Champion, I have no doubts that it's also the highest. The attack psynergies are actually a bit weaker than Gaia and Volcano but they're still really good and cost slightly less PP. It has the best combination of stat boosters with all three groups of Guard/Protect, Impact/High Impact, and Ward/Resist (with different names though). Samurai is just amazing.

I still prefer Ninja > Samurai but I'm determined to get Samurai to Chuck Norris tier, at least at the bottom of it.

btw why on Weyard is Garet's Ascetic above Pilgrim?

Edited September 17, 2010 by Proto

[Paperblade]

Level 30-31 seems ridiculously high for the original. Like... 7-8 levels higher than what I remember finishing at.

Also, nitpick. I'm pretty sure the final boss is called Fusion Dragon.

[Narga_Rocks]

Level 30-31 seems ridiculously high for the original. Like... 7-8 levels higher than what I remember finishing at.

Also, nitpick. I'm pretty sure the final boss is called Fusion Dragon.

It was a first playthrough. Those tend to be higher leveled for me than later ones. I'm sure you are right that you should be even lower leveled in general, which just serves to make the EPAs for Samurai even more out of reach. Which is the original point. Whether that would actually prevent Samurai from getting to the highest tier is another matter entirely.

Edited September 17, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[Life]

Level 30-31 seems ridiculously high for the original. Like... 7-8 levels higher than what I remember finishing at.

Also, nitpick. I'm pretty sure the final boss is called Fusion Dragon.

I call it the Twin Dragon.

And the Lure Cap is great for boosting your level.

I'll address everything else after shul (Yom Kippur right now). I like the arguments for Samurai, though.

Edited September 17, 2010 by 4chan

[Kriemhild]

It was a first playthrough. Those tend to be higher leveled for me than later ones. I'm sure you are right that you should be even lower leveled in general, which just serves to make the EPAs for Samurai even more out of reach. Which is the original point. Whether that would actually prevent Samurai from getting to the highest tier is another matter entirely.

Well, Samurai gets Rockslide at Level 24, which should be attainable by the time you get your 25th Djinn. He won't have Magic Shell yet though, unfortunately...