Psych vs. Cam

[CT075]

Let the bullshit begin.

I open.

[CT075]

Heh, who'da thought that I'd get into another one of these, eh?

Anyway. Today we are brought together to discuss the merits of Holyn versus those of Ayra .

Now, to start, we will compare the two directly. Ayra is some princess auntie-thingy to Shanan, the crown prince. Whereas, Holyn is a badass prince of some country (I forget which) who makes a living beating the shit out of people in the arena. You can't get a much clearer win than that.

Of course, Holyn should win just based off of that, but I'll delve into the trivial stuff like stats now.

We get our little princess woman thingy after you capture Genoa, the first castle of chapter 1. At this point, Cuan and Sigurd should be your two best units, being the epic badasses they are. In fact, they're almost as badass as Holyn at this point.

But anyway, recruiting Ayra is difficult as FUCK, and we all know it. It requires Sigurd to not blick her, it requires that she not kill someone else. So while we do all that, we can go seize the castle and recruit her on our own valuable time.

8 Sigurd 38.3HP - Silver Sword: 19.5 atk | 9.9 AS | 29 avo | 10.2 def | 3.15 res

7 Cuan 36.2HP - Steel Lance: 33 atk | -1.2 AS | 26.8 avo | 11 def | 3.1 res

4 Ayra 32HP - Iron Blade: 17 atk | 11 AS | 25 avo | 7 def | 1 res

As you can see, Ayra easily has the worst offense on the team. Her avoid is pretty unremarkable as well, seeing as both Sigurd and Cuan beat her (despite Cuan wielding the heavier weapon). She also has less attack than either of them, with Cuan beating her by a whopping 16 attack. Even with Pursuit, she can't beat him. Against a bandit with 11 defense, Ayra does 6*2 instead of 21. Granted, she has a 16% chance of activating Astra to blick the guy right away. But by that logic, Cuan has a 18.8% chance to Continue the guy, killing him as well. Sigurd does the same thing, 8*2, which isn't a whole lot better until you realize that Sigurd has an epic sibling bonus with Ethlin that he can use. They both utterly destroy her in durability, as they stomp her defensive stats while still having higher avoid than her.

Fast forward to chapter 2, when we get Holyn. Unlike Ayra, we don't have to waste time luring him away to stop Sigurd from blicking him, as that's what we want to do. In fact, we don't even have to go out of our way at all, since he's recruited right here in the home castle. And he forces you to gain EXP as well! What a nice guy he is.

12 Holyn 40HP - Iron Blade: 20 atk | 22 avo | 11 def | 1 res

8 Ayra 34.4HP - Iron Blade: 17.9 atk | 26.4 avo | 7.6 def | 1.15 res

The first thing one notices is how Holyn utterly shitstomps her, durability-wise. He trades 4.4 avo for 3.4 defense and 5.6 HP. Because of this, despite the fact that Holyn faces slightly higher hit rates from enemies, he can take an extra hit or two from them, which can make a difference in the long run. Offensively, it's still a shitstomp, just less of one. Holyn does an extra 4.2 damage when both double (seeing as they have almost the same AS, it's fairly likely). Again, Ayra has a 17.8% chance of an Astrablick, but Holyn has only a slightly worse chance (17%) of activating Luna on his attack.

Against a lance cav with 8 def and 38 HP, Ayra can do 9*2 damage for a 3RKO. In fact, Holyn does 12*2 damage, a 2RKO this time. If either of them proc anything it means death for the cav, but yeah.

Now, neither of them should be fighting Elliot (he should be dead by the time the foot units arrive there), but if they do, Ayra does 4*2 to his 55HP. That's not even enough to 2RKO if she procs Astra twice (a 3.2041% chance, btw). Holyn, on the other hand, does a semi-respectable 7*2, which makes his 20 damage Luna significantly more useful.

Keep in mind that I’m grossly inflating Ayra's level here, as there's no way she's gonna gain four levels in half a chapter. Especially not if Sigurd/Cuan/mounted units are doing what they're meant to do and rush ahead.

So to sum up everything we've learned up to this point, Ayra is hilariously inferior at the time when she joins, and is basically shitstomped by Holyn even if she has a grossly inflated level. Great start, Ayra!

---

Onto chapter 3. Now, obviously, neither of them is going to be doing anything against the Cross Knights (that's Sigurd/Cuan/Lachesis's job), and the chance that they'll be fighting anything beyond stragglers on the way to Madino is fairly unlikely (barring the starting enemies that are basically the same as what I've already shown). So let's pit them both up against an Orgahil pirate after Silvail is seized.

- Pirate L12, 47/8/0/3/10/0/8/1, Iron Axe, -8 (6)

-6 AS, -12 avo, 90 hit, 22 atk, 8 def/1 res

12 Ayra 37.6HP - Iron Blade: 25.4 atk | 31.4 avo | 101.6 hit | 8.6 def | 1.4 res

14 Holyn 42.2HP - Iron Blade: 26.9 atk | 24.6 avo | 97.2 hit | 11.6 def | 1.1 res

Aira's level is still grossly inflated (ANOTHER 4 levels?), but who the fuck cares? As you can see, Holyn still shitstomps her silly durability-wise. 4.6 HP and 3 def for 4.4 avo. Whoop. Now, obviously neither of these people are gonna have problems hitting this bastard. On the other hand… This guy has 48.6 displayed hit on Ayra, and 52.8 hit on Holyn. This could be considered a win for Ayra, until you consider the fact that Holyn can take four hits from this guy without dying. That's plenty enough, as the guy gets 2RKO'd back. Ayra, on the other hand, isn't so lucky. She gets 3RKO'd, and KOs at the same numbers as Holyn.

Notice that I didn't give either of them the Hero Sword. This is for a few reasons. Firstly, neither of them DESERVE the damn thing, as there are more worthy candidates (Noish, Alec) who need it more, as they either have no Pursuit (Noish) or do poor damage regardless (Alec). Now, you could make a case for Ayra doing poor enough damage that she could use it just as well as Alec. That's where you're wrong. Noish/Alec has a mount, and therefore gets more exposure. More exposure = more enemies potentially dead = potentially faster clear. Or maybe someone needs it to turn 2RKOs into ORKOs. Maybe it would push a unit from the land of being mediocre to the land of being badass. Like, say, HOLYN. This guy 2RKOs everything with an Iron Blade, why not give him the Hero Sword and be done with it?

Moving onto chapter 4, where we'll assume that they've both promoted because there are fucking pirates everywhere. This is mage-city, so we'll fast-forward to Lamia's squadron (It's faster to station them in the home castle then have Aideen warp them back to the home castle after seizing whatever the first castle is called).

Zaxon

- Lamia's mercenaries hired by Daccar, charge you after you seized Silesia

- Bowfighter L22, 52/13/2/16/16/0/11/1, Killer Bow, 13 (2)

- Thunder Mage L22, 48/2/13/15/12/0/3/11, Elthunder, 5 (2)

- Swordfighter L22, 52/13/2/16/16/0/11/2, Hero Sword, 13 (2)

- Swordfighter L22, 52/13/2/16/16/0/11/2, Sleep Sword, 4 (2)

- Priest L22, 48/2/13/12/12/0/3/13, Libro, 12 (1)

Boss: Lamia ***

- Swordmaster L25, 65/19/2/22/22/0/14/5, Silver Blade, Life Ring, 16

21 Ayra 43.9HP - Steel Blade: 36.8 atk | 48.4 avo | 119.4 hit | 12.4 def | 4.8 res

23 Holyn 53.2HP - Steel Blade: 38.6 atk | 36.6 avo | 113.8 hit | 16.6 def | 4.6 res

It's at this point when the concrete vs. absolute durability begins coming into play, as the difference is more significant now than before. 10HP and 4.2 def against 11.8 avo and 0.2 res. The difference in res is minor, but the HP is what makes Holyn's concrete durability so much more ridiculous. Just to outline my point, the Elthunder mage has 61.6 hit on Ayra, 2HKOing her (she ORKOs him back, but faces a counter). However, the same mage has 73.4 hit on Holyn but 3HKOs him. This illustrates the difference between the two, as Holyn can safely afford to miss this guy on the enemy phase without getting blicked next turn. Against Lamia, weeeeeeell.

Lamia Swordmaster Silver Blade, Life Ring, 16 - 39 atk | 32 avo | 104 hit | 14 def

2HKOs Ayra and 3HKOs Holyn. She does so at pretty much the same rates as that Thunder mage, so in all likelihood Ayra's gonna die. In fact, she has a 36% chance of proc-ing continue as well. Combined, this means that Ayra has roughly a 38.243% chance of death right off the bat as compared to Holyn's 11.023%. Ayra is more than THREE TIMES as likely to die than Holyn. Eesh.

On the offensive side of things, Ayra 3HKOs Lamia at 87 hit. Not the best scenario to be in, is it? Holyn isn't a whole lot better, doing the same at 81 hit, but he doesn't face a chance of getting Continueblicked right away after he attacks.

It's a similar story for the rest of the 1st generation, with Holyn boasting impressive HP/DEF stats when compared to lolAyra's avo lead. And if Holyn has a lover, that lead goes back down to unimpressive levels.

Speaking of lovers, it's arguable that Ayra's best husband is Holyn. Since I'm not going to consider that for obvious reasons, we should go with her next best suitor - Lex.

Ever since the prologue, Lex has been running around with Sigurd and Alec and Noish to contribute and kill shit with his axe of destiny. That Hero Axe is mighty, and it drops down on foes with the force of lightning. HOWEVER, if we are stuck pairing him with Ayra, he suddenly has to fall back, to trot with the foot units. This is not good for the team, as that Hero Axe is ridiculously powerful if used correctly. Or we could pair her with Noish, which I suppose is less of a loss. However, Noish is also a mounted unit, and has been rushing ahead for the entire game so far. Already Ayra is forcing us to take a combatant off the front lines.

Meanwhile, Holyn should be paired with Briggid, an epic Sniper. They have the same move, so we aren't losing out by gluing them together. Briggid is a ranged fighter, so it is unefficient to have her get attacked. Therefore, keeping her stuck to Holyn means that the enemies may attack Holyn instead, allowing him to obliterate them with his muscles of manliness, while Briggid stands back and plucks away with her mighty Ichival. Looks like a win-win situation to me~

tl;dr: Holyn is a badass who kills shit dead and doesn't afraid of anything. Ayra is some princess girl who has to look after Shanan. Yeeeeeeeeeeah.

[Psych]

Now, to start, we will compare the two directly. Ayra is some princess auntie-thingy to Shanan, the crown prince. Whereas, Holyn is a badass prince of some country (I forget which) who makes a living beating the shit out of people in the arena. You can't get a much clearer win than that.

Yeah, saving the last member of royalty is totally better than being a wuss who never asked out a girl he had the hots for. And not being a lord anymore.

We get our little princess woman thingy after you capture Genoa, the first castle of chapter 1. At this point, Cuan and Sigurd should be your two best units, being the epic badasses they are. In fact, they're almost as badass as Holyn at this point.

But anyway, recruiting Ayra is difficult as FUCK, and we all know it. It requires Sigurd to not blick her, it requires that she not kill someone else. So while we do all that, we can go seize the castle and recruit her on our own valuable time.

8 Sigurd 38.3HP - Silver Sword: 19.5 atk | 9.9 AS | 29 avo | 10.2 def | 3.15 res

7 Cuan 36.2HP - Steel Lance: 33 atk | -1.2 AS | 26.8 avo | 11 def | 3.1 res

4 Ayra 32HP - Iron Blade: 17 atk | 11 AS | 25 avo | 7 def | 1 res

As you can see, Ayra easily has the worst offense on the team. Her avoid is pretty unremarkable as well, seeing as both Sigurd and Cuan beat her (despite Cuan wielding the heavier weapon). She also has less attack than either of them, with Cuan beating her by a whopping 16 attack. Even with Pursuit, she can't beat him. Against a bandit with 11 defense, Ayra does 6*2 instead of 21. Granted, she has a 16% chance of activating Astra to blick the guy right away. But by that logic, Cuan has a 18.8% chance to Continue the guy, killing him as well. Sigurd does the same thing, 8*2, which isn't a whole lot better until you realize that Sigurd has an epic sibling bonus with Ethlin that he can use. They both utterly destroy her in durability, as they stomp her defensive stats while still having higher avoid than her.

I'm sorry. When did this turn into the Cuan and SIgurd vs Ayra debate? Secondly, Ayra has better movement through the forests than either of them do, thanks to not being on a horse. She can easily clean up some of Jamka's squad while Aideen is busy recruit him, can take care of the squad around Verdane, since after a good use of Silence, AKA Diadora's only use this chapter other than screwing Sigurd, those Hunters are just bait. Not to mention there are two options until we save Aideen and Dew. Dew's sudden religious movement, or a nice day at the beach. Either one, I don't see Dew killing many bandits, and Ayra is perfectly positioned to get there while the others are cleaning up either of the two squads, leaving plenty for her. Plus she wants that skill ring, since, hello! 5 more percent of Astra.

12 Holyn 40HP - Iron Blade: 20 atk | 22 avo | 11 def | 1 res

8 Ayra 34.4HP - Iron Blade: 17.9 atk | 26.4 avo | 7.6 def | 1.15 res

Okay first off no. Ayra can easily clean up 5 levels from the bandits, and Aideen and Ethlin do have Return/Warp. So she's clearing the chapter 1 Arena while Lex goes off to find an Axe. Not to mention chapter 2. It should look more like this.

12 Holyn 40HP - Iron Blade: 26 atk | 23 avo | 11 def | 1 res

10 Ayra 36.2HP - Iron Blade: 24.8 atk | 29.8 avo | 8.2 def | 1.3 re

Funny, now it doesn't seem so different. Especially considering the fact Ayra has more attack speed than him.

The first thing one notices is how Holyn utterly shitstomps her, durability-wise. He trades 4.4 avo for 3.4 defense and 5.6 HP. Because of this, despite the fact that Holyn faces slightly higher hit rates from enemies, he can take an extra hit or two from them, which can make a difference in the long run. Offensively, it's still a shitstomp, just less of one. Holyn does an extra 4.2 damage when both double (seeing as they have almost the same AS, it's fairly likely). Again, Ayra has a 17.8% chance of an Astrablick, but Holyn has only a slightly worse chance (17%) of activating Luna on his attack.

It's 18 Speed for Ayra vs 17 Speed for Holyn. There's almost no way that Ayra isn't getting a point up speed until level 11 either. It's not good that you're taking an extra hit from one or two of them when you face higher hit rates. Especially in this game Cam. Let's give that Skill ring to Ayra, since the only other person who could have wanted it in Chapter 1 was lolEthin or Noish, who we'd have had to waste a bunch of turns for since oh yeah, no Pursuit/Instakill sword skill.

10 Ayra 19.6 Skill +5 Skill with ring. Look at that. About a 1 in 4 shot of Astra. And versus anything but armours, which she should only be fighting in the arena and even they don't stand much of a chance, that's a pretty good shot it's dying.

Against a lance cav with 8 def and 38 HP, Ayra can do 16*2 damage for a 2RKO. In fact, Holyn does 18*2 damage, a 2RKO this time. If either of them proc anything it means death for the cav, but yeah.

Now, neither of them should be fighting Elliot (he should be dead by the time the foot units arrive there), but if they do, Ayra does 12*2 to his 55HP. That's not even enough to 2RKO if she procs Astra twice (a 3.2041% chance, btw). Holyn, on the other hand, does a semi-respectable 14*2, which makes his 20 damage Luna significantly more useful.

Keep in mind that I’m grossly inflating Ayra's level here, as there's no way she's gonna gain four levels in half a chapter. Especially not if Sigurd/Cuan/mounted units are doing what they're meant to do and rush ahead.

So to sum up everything we've learned up to this point, Ayra is hilariously inferior at the time when she joins, and is basically shitstomped by Holyn even if she has a grossly inflated level. Great start, Ayra!

Just fixing some numbers for ya. Only Ayra has a higher chance to proc something. Inflating her level? Ha. A limbo contest has seen higher levels. 3.2041% chance? Whut. Since when did he have Nihil? Also I presume by "hilariously inferior" you mean "kicking Holyn's rear end". But I also seem to be missing the most important job in Chapter 2 for Holyn and Ayra. They're on foot. And what do most foot units do in Chapter 2? That's right, go to Mackily. Ayra is easily getting levels off of that place and on the way to Augusty. I was even betting on Holyn getting levels from there.

---

Onto chapter 3. Now, obviously, neither of them is going to be doing anything against the Cross Knights (that's Sigurd/Cuan/Lachesis's job), and the chance that they'll be fighting anything beyond stragglers on the way to Madino is fairly unlikely (barring the starting enemies that are basically the same as what I've already shown). So let's pit them both up against an Orgahil pirate after Silvail is seized.

12 Ayra 37.6HP - Iron Blade: 25.4 atk | 31.4 avo | 101.6 hit | 8.6 def | 1.4 res

14 Holyn 42.2HP - Iron Blade: 26.9 atk | 24.6 avo | 97.2 hit | 11.6 def | 1.1 res

Aira's level is still grossly inflated (ANOTHER 4 levels?), but who the fuck cares? As you can see, Holyn still shitstomps her silly durability-wise. 4.6 HP and 3 def for 4.4 avo. Whoop. Now, obviously neither of these people are gonna have problems hitting this bastard. On the other hand… This guy has 48.6 displayed hit on Ayra, and 52.8 hit on Holyn. This could be considered a win for Ayra, until you consider the fact that Holyn can take four hits from this guy without dying. That's plenty enough, as the guy gets 2RKO'd back. Ayra, on the other hand, isn't so lucky. She gets 3RKO'd, and KOs at the same numbers as Holyn.

Inflated like my rear end. Holyn is low too. With the later half of Chapter 2 and the Arena for 3, they should be looking more like:

16 Holyn 44.4HP - Iron Blade: 27 atk | 26.2 avo | 12.2 def | 1.2 res

14 Ayra 39HP - Iron Blade: 26 atk | 33 avo | 9 def | 1.5 res

Also, why aren't they taking the Cross Knights? They're on foot, so they really should only be waiting around for them with Lachesis so she can ban the Earth sword. Having them walk to Madino while the mounts nab all the exp and then wait there so the mounts can be warped to keep taking exp is silly. They can easily walk up to Madino while the mounts deal with the armours, wyverns, and killing Shagal. Plus Holyn might be looking better durability wise, 5 HP and 3 Defense, but...

14 Ayra 22 Skill + 5 Ring

16 Holyn 20 Skill

Ayra is still doing better than Holyn with the help of the Skill ring.

Notice that I didn't give either of them the Hero Sword. This is for a few reasons. Firstly, neither of them DESERVE the damn thing, as there are more worthy candidates (Noish, Alec) who need it more, as they either have no Pursuit (Noish) or do poor damage regardless (Alec). Now, you could make a case for Ayra doing poor enough damage that she could use it just as well as Alec. That's where you're wrong. Noish/Alec has a mount, and therefore gets more exposure. More exposure = more enemies potentially dead = potentially faster clear. Or maybe someone needs it to turn 2RKOs into ORKOs. Maybe it would push a unit from the land of being mediocre to the land of being badass. Like, say, HOLYN. This guy 2RKOs everything with an Iron Blade, why not give him the Hero Sword and be done with it?

Deserve? Let's see who can use the Hero Sword before promotion.

Ardan - Ha

Alec, Noish - Unless they're fathering a kid, unlikely

Ethlin - Ha

Lachesis - Could be possible here, but has the Prayer Sword and Earth Sword

Fury - Gets the Hero Lance

Beowulf - Um, why? He has Charge and Pursuit already

Sigurd - You're joking, right?

Holyn and Ayra really are the only ones who have a claim to it right now. Holyn if fathering Patty, probably edges it out in Chapter 5, but before then Ayra really is the sole user of it besides to clear pesky arenas. We get it as soon as we leave the castle, and unless we want to waste turns by sending Ayra and someone back inside, she's going to be keeping it, at least until Madino. After that, it's likely you'll keep it on her the rest of the chapter.

Moving onto chapter 4, where we'll assume that they've both promoted because there are fucking pirates everywhere. This is mage-city, so we'll fast-forward to Lamia's squadron (It's faster to station them in the home castle then have Aideen warp them back to the home castle after seizing whatever the first castle is called).

21 Ayra 43.9HP - Steel Blade: 36.8 atk | 48.4 avo | 119.4 hit | 12.4 def | 4.8 res

23 Holyn 53.2HP - Steel Blade: 38.6 atk | 36.6 avo | 113.8 hit | 16.6 def | 4.6 res

It's at this point when the concrete vs. absolute durability begins coming into play, as the difference is more significant now than before. 10HP and 4.2 def against 11.8 avo and 0.2 res. The difference in res is minor, but the HP is what makes Holyn's concrete durability so much more ridiculous. Just to outline my point, the Elthunder mage has 61.6 hit on Ayra, 2HKOing her (she ORKOs him back, but faces a counter). However, the same mage has 73.4 hit on Holyn but 3HKOs him. This illustrates the difference between the two, as Holyn can safely afford to miss this guy on the enemy phase without getting blicked next turn. Against Lamia, weeeeeeell.

20 Holyn 48.8HP - Iron Blade: 33 atk | 33.4 avo | 15.4 def | 4.4 res

Silver Blade: 41 atk | 33.4 avo | 15.4 def | 4.4 res

20 Ayra 43.2HP - Iron Blade: 32.8 atk | 47.8 avo | 12.2 def | 4.8 res

Hero Sword: 32.8 atk | 53.8 avo | 12.2 def | 4.8 res

20 Holyn 25.4 skl

20 Ayra 29.5 skl + 5 ring

7 levels each seems a bit much for either of them. Yes, there's a lot of pirates, but the main group of them will go after Briggid and towards Claude and Tiltyu and possibly Fury. Pizaro's group might come after them, but even with Chapter 4 arena, unless there's some Elite Ring action, it just seems doubtful. Why wouldn't they go North? Even if we're waiting for Aideen and Lachesis to return the whole group, Dew has to go, and if we're waiting on Dew, Ayra and Holyn can go with. Secondly, we have to wait for Mayhna to die and for Silesia to be captured, which is a good 7 turns, so no one is going to be mad if they have to warp Ayra and Holyn back for some more exp either. Just look at Bal's runthrough.

Not to mention Ayra now has almost equal if not better offense than Holyn thanks to the Hero Sword unless he pulls out the Silver Blade. He may still have a durability lead on her, but she's also packing a good 20 avoid lead. Plus now is when Caps and Skills come into play. Ayra has a 3 more skill and speed cap over Holyn, which while not al ot, can allow for more Astra-ing and lets her double a few things he can't. Not to mention her shiny new Continue skill that Holyn doesn't have.

Lamia Swordmaster Silver Blade, Life Ring, 39 atk | 32 avo | 104 hit | 14 def

2HKOs Ayra and 3HKOs Holyn. She does so at pretty much the same rates as that Thunder mage, so in all likelihood Ayra's gonna die. In fact, she has a 36% chance of proc-ing continue as well. Combined, this means that Ayra has roughly a 38.243% chance of death right off the bat as compared to Holyn's 11.023%. Ayra is more than THREE TIMES as likely to die than Holyn. Eesh.

On the offensive side of things, Ayra 3HKOs Lamia at 87 hit. Not the best scenario to be in, is it? Holyn isn't a whole lot better, doing the same at 81 hit, but he doesn't face a chance of getting Continueblicked right away after he attacks.

I have no idea where you're pulling these numbers from other than your ass. Ayra is facing hit rates in the 50's, while Holyn has 70's. By the way, Ayra doubles her. Hero Sword makes that a quad, and a shiny Continue (which allows for even more Astra goodness) would surprise me if she didn't 1RKO Lamia. Holyn can only 1RKO her if he pulls out the Silver Blade and gets a lucky Luna. And while good, is a lot less likely than with Ayra's bonuses.

It's a similar story for the rest of the 1st generation, with Holyn boasting impressive HP/DEF stats when compared to lolAyra's avo lead. And if Holyn has a lover, that lead goes back down to unimpressive levels.

Speaking of lovers, it's arguable that Ayra's best husband is Holyn. Since I'm not going to consider that for obvious reasons, we should go with her next best suitor - Lex.

Ever since the prologue, Lex has been running around with Sigurd and Alec and Noish to contribute and kill shit with his axe of destiny. That Hero Axe is mighty, and it drops down on foes with the force of lightning. HOWEVER, if we are stuck pairing him with Ayra, he suddenly has to fall back, to trot with the foot units. This is not good for the team, as that Hero Axe is ridiculously powerful if used correctly. Or we could pair her with Noish, which I suppose is less of a loss. However, Noish is also a mounted unit, and has been rushing ahead for the entire game so far. Already Ayra is forcing us to take a combatant off the front lines.

Meanwhile, Holyn should be paired with Briggid, an epic Sniper. They have the same move, so we aren't losing out by gluing them together. Briggid is a ranged fighter, so it is unefficient to have her get attacked. Therefore, keeping her stuck to Holyn means that the enemies may attack Holyn instead, allowing him to obliterate them with his muscles of manliness, while Briggid stands back and plucks away with her mighty Ichival. Looks like a win-win situation to me~

tl;dr: Holyn is a badass who kills shit dead and doesn't afraid of anything. Ayra is some princess girl who has to look after Shanan. Yeeeeeeeeeeah.

5 HP, 3 Def. Definitely a great lead. >_> And with an avoid of about 30 more than Holyn once they both reach level 30, it doesn't look good for him.

I'm going to try and stop this from turning into a pairing debate, but...

Lex brings Elite and Ambush to the table, and while that allows you to spread more exp off of the twins in Second Gen, it really only helps to get Lakche in low HP, give her her mother's Skill ring and Hero sword, and hope she gets lucky and kills like Ishtar or someone bothersome like Ishtor. Which by then, Shanan will have shown up/Holsety!Arthur, so it's not really doing anything besides letting them promote early. Not to mention Shak's only inheritance is a 0 kill Silver Blade and Thunder Sword.

Holyn gives them overkill skill and little else, which they already have, not to mention the fact that Astra and Luna can't activate together. Next.

Noish is possible. He has the exact same rate as Lex, only loses the conversation in 3. You'd get plenty of adjacents in 1, while Noish is slowed moving through forest, or in 4 waiting for Mayhna to die. If you're really slow, there's Chapter 5 while a horse actually hurts and Noish hates sand.

There's what I consider Ayra's best pairing. Dew. Yes, Dew. He's going to be hardly contributing to combat in Sigurd, Levin, or Ayra level rates, but he can nab a few kills here and there for cash. Plus, since Ayra will be swimming in cash (I've never seen her not clear the arena) she can give her money to him, to help finance other trouble people like Aideen. With Sol and Bargain, the kids won't have money issues and can tank a lot more people. Dew really can only help us with Ayra, since they both have similar move which allow for adjacents, they come early too, and won't be paired so early that you don't get the Hero Sword.

I have no issues with Patty!Holyn.

tl;dr Holyn looks all cool, but is a wuss, Ayra is the Aunt of someone with a Holy Weapon, let's her daughter preform incest, has a super cool sword skill that beats everything, doesn't afraid of anything and survived the Battle of Barahara too. Can Holyn say that?

[CT075]

Ugh, fuck. I think I'm gonna forfeit this one. Honestly, there's way too much that Ayra has over Holyn for me to be able to make this work. My strategy with the opening was mostly pulling bullshit out of my ass, but I don't think I can do enough of that to cover up all of Ayra's advantages.

That, and I'm lazy as fuck.

Sorry, guys.

[Psych]

So let's all start discussing how excellent my arguement was then.

[CT075]

Most of Psych's points seem rather weak' date=' imo. All I see is "AYRA IS BETTER BECAUSE ASTRA AND HERO SWORD".

[/quote']

Edited May 10, 2011 by Camtech075

[Psych]

THOSE ARE VALID POINTS BECAUSE ASTRA AND HERO SWORD.

[Mekkah]

8 Sigurd 38.3HP - Silver Sword: 19.5 atk | 9.9 AS | 29 avo | 10.2 def | 3.15 res

7 Cuan 36.2HP - Steel Lance: 33 atk | -1.2 AS | 26.8 avo | 11 def | 3.1 res

4 Ayra 32HP - Iron Blade: 17 atk | 11 AS | 25 avo | 7 def | 1 res

As you can see, Ayra easily has the worst offense on the team.

There is so much wrong in just four lines...if I were to judge this, Camtech loses points here for not doing his job, but Psych even more for not calling him out on it.

1. How does Sigurd have 19.5 Atk with Silver Sword while Cuan has 33 Atk with Steel Lance? Sigurd has 14 base Str. He needs to weild like an Iron Sword to ever have that little attack. Did you mean 29.5?

2. How did you end up giving Cuan 26.8 avo with negative AS? Avo uses AS, not Spd.

3. Ayra has the worst offense on the team because she isn't as good as Sigurd and Cuan...because suddenly we don't have 10 other units?

Against a bandit with 11 defense, Ayra does 6*2 instead of 21. Granted, she has a 16% chance of activating Astra to blick the guy right away. But by that logic, Cuan has a 18.8% chance to Continue the guy, killing him as well.

Ayra doubles, so she has two chances at proccing Astra. Cuan doesn't double.

But anyway, recruiting Ayra is difficult as FUCK, and we all know it. It requires Sigurd to not blick her, it requires that she not kill someone else. So while we do all that, we can go seize the castle and recruit her on our own valuable time.

How can Sigurd blick her if he GETS doubled and has no crit or anything? If anything, he's in danger of getting killed by Ayra (he doesn't have Nihil). But it doesn't matter because recruitment cost shouldn't be a factor in debates.

Now, neither of them should be fighting Elliot (he should be dead by the time the foot units arrive there), but if they do, Ayra does 4*2 to his 55HP. That's not even enough to 2RKO if she procs Astra twice (a 3.2041% chance, btw)

Elliot has 12 Def. You posted Ayra having like 18 Atk with Iron Blade. How is that even possible? Moreover, Ayra has 11 base Str, and Iron Blade has 12 Mt. That's 23 Atk.

But Psych was pretty bad too...

I have no idea where you're pulling these numbers from other than your ass. Ayra is facing hit rates in the 50's, while Holyn has 70's. By the way, Ayra doubles her. Hero Sword makes that a quad, and a shiny Continue (which allows for even more Astra goodness)

Hero Sword does not stack with Continue. I forgot what exactly you can proc Astra on and cba researching that, but I'm not the one making statements about it.

Okay first off no. Ayra can easily clean up 5 levels from the bandits

Which ones? The initial ones near Genoa that will most likely be killed by your mounted units? Or the ones with Jamka that don't attack her since they have 0% hit on her in the forests? Either way, 5 levels is outrageous. That's 500 EXP - assuming you get 40 EXP for each kill, that's 12.5 kills, or 50 weakenings or some kind of combination from it.

my eyes bleed :(

[Ether]

There is so much wrong in just four lines...if I were to judge this, Camtech loses points here for not doing his job, but Psych even more for not calling him out on it.

1. How does Sigurd have 19.5 Atk with Silver Sword while Cuan has 33 Atk with Steel Lance? Sigurd has 14 base Str. He needs to weild like an Iron Sword to ever have that little attack. Did you mean 29.5?

2. How did you end up giving Cuan 26.8 avo with negative AS? Avo uses AS, not Spd.

3. Ayra has the worst offense on the team because she isn't as good as Sigurd and Cuan...because suddenly we don't have 10 other units?

Ayra doubles, so she has two chances at proccing Astra. Cuan doesn't double.

How can Sigurd blick her if he GETS doubled and has no crit or anything? If anything, he's in danger of getting killed by Ayra (he doesn't have Nihil). But it doesn't matter because recruitment cost shouldn't be a factor in debates.

Elliot has 12 Def. You posted Ayra having like 18 Atk with Iron Blade. How is that even possible? Moreover, Ayra has 11 base Str, and Iron Blade has 12 Mt. That's 23 Atk.

But Psych was pretty bad too...

Hero Sword does not stack with Continue. I forgot what exactly you can proc Astra on and cba researching that, but I'm not the one making statements about it.

Which ones? The initial ones near Genoa that will most likely be killed by your mounted units? Or the ones with Jamka that don't attack her since they have 0% hit on her in the forests? Either way, 5 levels is outrageous. That's 500 EXP - assuming you get 40 EXP for each kill, that's 12.5 kills, or 50 weakenings or some kind of combination from it.

my eyes bleed :(

It's alright Mekkah, it's all gonna be okay. Just look away and those eyes will heal with time.

Shame on the both of you, making a poor man bleed from the eyes with your shoddy details, hmph!

[Anouleth]

What's with the casually assuming that Ira gets the Skill Ring as well? Or how Ira gets the Hero Sword and Holyn doesn't?

[CT075]

We're both just terribad debaters, I guess.

Keep in mind that my opening was written at about 5 AM without the aid of anything caffeinated

[Life]

First off, Cam's argument was horrible. Remember that Lamia argument?

2HKOs Ayra and 3HKOs Holyn. She does so at pretty much the same rates as that Thunder mage, so in all likelihood Ayra's gonna die. In fact, she has a 36% chance of proc-ing continue as well. Combined, this means that Ayra has roughly a 38.243% chance of death right off the bat as compared to Holyn's 11.023%. Ayra is more than THREE TIMES as likely to die than Holyn. Eesh.

On the offensive side of things, Ayra 3HKOs Lamia at 87 hit. Not the best scenario to be in, is it? Holyn isn't a whole lot better, doing the same at 81 hit, but he doesn't face a chance of getting Continueblicked right away after he attacks.

Level 21:
43.9 HP, 21.1 Str, 0.85 Mag, 30 Skl, 27.1 Spd, 6.4 Luck, 12.4 Def, 4.85 MDf

First off, if we haven't paired Fin and Lachesis (Beowulf is significantly better), Ayra will be holding the Steel Blade or the Hero Sword. Ayra is literally the best person to use it since she's the only person who is pretty much guaranteed to kill something with the Hero Sword in her hands. Ups the kill count, you see?

Now, you got the Steel Blade part right but let's just run over the numbers of killing easy-peasy Lamia.

Ayra - Level 21 Swordmaster - A Swords - Wife of Lex/Holyn
Steel Blade: 37 Atk, 140 Acc, 21 AS, 30% Shooting Star Sword
Hero Sword: 33 Atk, 180 Acc, 24 AS, 30% Shooting Star Sword
44 HP, 78 Avo, 12 Def, 5 MDf

For the record, Ayra's husband doesn't matter. And even if Lex was sitting at Thove and was waiting for the Pam Squad, he should get warped down to Silesia after it's recaptured since the Pam Squad will be dead by then. Holyn should just follow Ayra around as if she's got a doughnut on a string.

Secondly, Ayra gets more Avo from Sigurd being around since he has to, you know, capture Zaxon. I can't remember how many Leadership Stars Sig has but I think it was 2 so that's an extra 10 Avo. Note that Holyn gets that too.

Now for the record, Ayra is quite devastating. We're talking about someone who can destroy just about any arena. That's how good she is. Lamia has 65 HP, 64 Avo, 16 AS, 14 Def and the Life Ring. Not like the last thing is going to help her anyway. On the offensive side, Steel Blade!Ayra easily 3HKOs Lamia with a 76 hit rate. That's not bad... until you realize that because Ayra doubles Lamia, Ayra's got a 30% chance of hitting Shooting Star on either attack. That translates into a 51% chance of straight up ORKOing Lamia with only a Steel Blade. Not to mention that Continue actually helps Ayra since Ayra will hit Lamia for the third time before Lamia responds back.

Hero Sword is better. Ayra's doing 19 damage a hit but she's sporting 116 Hit (AKA she's not missing) and hits 4 times due to... doubling Lamia again. 19*4 is 76 damage, 11 more than Lamia's defensive parameters. Lamia gets ORKO'd by Ayra when the old girl doesn't need a Shooting Star proc. No luck involved.

I could go into detail on Holyn but let me put it this way.

1. Your numbers are flat out wrong because you didn't even account for Lamia's 3 Leadership stars (much more of a devastating effect on Holyn who's using a sword with 60 Acc rather than 100 for Ayra.

2. You basically denied Ayra the Hero Sword because it makes a scrub like Noish or Alec do decent damage while it turns Ayra into a monster (or Holyn for that matter). In Gen 1, you're trying to put kills on that thing.

PS: I also have a bone to pick with your levels. 12 Ayra against Orgahill is grossly overrated? 12 Ayra at the start of Chapter 3 is grossly UNDERRATED. Ayra should be pushing 18 or 19 by the end of Chapter 3. And Mekkah covered the Sigard/Cuan comparison already.

PPS: Psych, your argument was less fail than Cam's but remember that the smartest dumbass is still a dumbass.

[CT075]

95% of my argument is pure, unadulterated bullshit and I'm proud of it.