The Power of Ritual

[Original Alear]

This is somewhat personal, but I think it can take place within the realm of serious discussion. Feel free to read my musings and then give your own, even if unrelated.

I was recently watching a new episode of game of thrones. I won't give details, but the season finale ends with a ritual being crafted which has enormous power in a serious mostly without magic.

The ritual master does it without fully understanding what it is he/she is doing, as best I interpret it. I believe it is this faith that things will be alright, based on a great deal of conjecture, that gives the ritual its power for him/her alone and no other. Ritual, when aped by many, begins to lose its direct, real significance and instead becomes about the trappings of the ritual itself. At least to most devotees. To those who fully grasp the ritual, it seems to me that it mostly becomes a matter of hiding horrific and beautiful truths from "lesser" minds.

(note that I do not believe in lesser minds to an extent that I actually believe anything should be done about them, except providing further nurturing.)

Recently I was at a jewish coming of age ceremony. The officiators, of a branch more strict than mine, were slightly confused - and why blame them for this? - in ordering the ceremony, and had those with little experience participate, and I am grateful for the opportunity to have done so. In giving us instructions on how to open the ark of the covenant, they failed to give me and another human being proper instructions, and there was a small delay in the ceremony. No issue. Among these officiators is a Jew - not the one below - who I respect as a man possibly as dedicated to peace as myself, though I did not feel I had enough time to converse with him and figure out whether I was correct in this estimation.

Among these officiators was also a jew who had the gall to say, as we stepped down from the bimah (sp?), "you have 3 tallit (sp?) on." Scuse me? You just messed up the ritual and you are casting stones at a reform jew for knowing less of it than you?

I would like to say that the ceremony as a whole was the most wonderful jewish coming of age ceremony to which I have ever been, far far better than my own.

I think the one ritual I am going to most sincerely and dedicatedly practice is that, when someone seems to be threatening my life, even in jest, I will offer to let them take it, as long as they let me embrace them first (no poison knives up my sleeves, friends). And have faith that my life will not be taken, or that it will, at that point, no longer matter whether I am dead or alive. I will not ask anyone to practice this ritual with me, because to do so weakens it - if everyone practiced it wholeheartedly, then what would become of a world of faithful practitioners with one who wished to kill? They would have to kill their belief to kill the killer. And where would they be after that? Lost, blind....like my dog, essentially, every morning of every day, whom I am sometimes but not always able to calm with newly crafted ritual.

[Life]

What's a coming of age ceremony? I know what a Bar/Bat Mitzvah is but not a Coming Of Age Ceremony.

First off, as a semi-religious orthodox Jew (black hat and all isn't required to be orthodox), I have no idea what the second guy meant. And don't worry, you got the spelling correct.

Secondly, within religious events (at least Jewish ones), it's completely OK to make mistakes. During my own Bar Mitzvah (6 years ago), I read a portion of the Torah and kept making mistakes near the end. I just got corrected each time (since you're supposed to read it correctly and reread words that you make a mistake on). Don't take it personally, just accept it as more of a piece of constructive criticism.

As for the meat of your own ritual, is it designed to be more psychological?

[Hero]

In real life, rituals do not hold any apparent "power" of their own. But most people who are involved in performing rituals will tell you that they work nonetheless. I think that this is connected to the concept of belief. If you perform a ritual with doubts as to its effectiveness, you aren't going to say at the end that it was effective. But if you go into the ritual with true belief, you will probably come out of it understanding that it worked.

It's not a complicated idea, if you believe something you will see the world in the context of its truth and if you have doubts these doubts will spread to everything connected to it. It's a principle that we see everywhere, not just in religion but in meditation, acupuncture, holding the A button as your pokeball appears on the screen, etc. Although the scene you cited isn't a particularly good example since fantastic things happen in front of everybody's eyes, George R.R. Martin uses this principle all the time in A Song of Ice and Fire to reconcile the reemerging magic of the world with the largely secular and deductivist worldviews of the maesters and its political classes.

For me the real question is how one comes by their belief in ritual, not whether or not ritual is effective. While it is illogical to exclude the possibility that there is a "divine space" and all sorts of connections and entities in the universe that we can't see, there are hundreds of belief systems that claim to be the final word on everything unseen and they all contradict each other and have many adherents with true belief. Orthodox Jews are very earnest in their faith, but so are Muslims, many Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, even Rastafarians and Baha'is.

Keep this in mind if you ever start to think that one particular belief system is the ultimate and exclusive truth or that another is worthless. Human spirituality has existed in a hundred thousand forms since before the beginning of history and none of it would have survived if there was nothing behind it.

[Celice]

What's a coming of age ceremony? I know what a Bar/Bat Mitzvah is but not a Coming Of Age Ceremony.

For some tribes, this

But there really is a huge wake of different coming of age ceremonies and like. Some have said the reason why the western world is so bloated with absurdism and inefficiency is because the countries are run with babies, not men. There's no real coming of age ceremony--and as such, the responsibilities of an adult are not possible.

It's a fun thought to play with, at the very least.

[Original Alear]

What's a coming of age ceremony? I know what a Bar/Bat Mitzvah is but not a Coming Of Age Ceremony.

A secularization of b'nai mitzvah.

Secondly, within religious events (at least Jewish ones), it's completely OK to make mistakes. During my own Bar Mitzvah (6 years ago), I read a portion of the Torah and kept making mistakes near the end. I just got corrected each time (since you're supposed to read it correctly and reread words that you make a mistake on). Don't take it personally, just accept it as more of a piece of constructive criticism.

I know, it's more like, "is this guy for real? [the guy correcting me] or is he just trolling?" Among other things, I gained a LOT of respect for people who make mistakes in all walks of life, especially relatively trivial ones. This included members of my own family. I have never been so proud of my family! I have never been so happy to been born a Jew as during that Bat Mitzvah! But I can no longer say that being born a Jew is why I am here today. My struggle with mental illness, if anything, seems to be why I am here.

As for the meat of your own ritual, is it designed to be more psychological?

Ya. I mean, definitely psychological. Suffice to say that one reason I'm delivering lots of contradictory messages is that I am hiding my goals. I think it is best to live life recognizing trust is rationally difficult/impossible to place and then to place trust in others anyway. It is possible I have already delivered my most important goal, or maybe I haven't yet. I am trusting a larger, more consistent sense of myself which seems to appear at times to keep to what I'm hoping for. Which I believe most people would define as making the world better rather than worse.

But if you go into the ritual with true belief, you will probably come out of it understanding that it worked.

Good point. Except...I did go into the Bat Mitzvah without belief, and came out with the understanding that it worked.....though I guess I still don't believe particularly strongly in Judaism.....I don't particularly DISbelieve in it either.....my main bone to pick with judaism is that they maintain their faith after so long, but my main bone to pick with those who persecute jews on religious grounds (see christians, muslims among others) is that they maintain their faith after so long.....naturally, my main bone to pick with myself is that I maintain my relative independence from any one faith/organization after so long.....

George R.R. Martin uses this principle all the time in A Song of Ice and Fire to reconcile the reemerging magic of the world with the largely secular and deductivist worldviews of the maesters and its political classes.

I know, I wanted a fairly obvious example that most people who have read the book or watched the show (admittedly not very many of you, possibly) would remember/know what I am talking about.

Keep this in mind if you ever start to think that one particular belief system is the ultimate and exclusive truth or that another is worthless. Human spirituality has existed in a hundred thousand forms since before the beginning of history and none of it would have survived if there was nothing behind it.

Agreed. I do not look at someone without religion or spirituality and say, "you are missing something" but I do not look at someone with it and say "you are missing something."

Now, however, I am 22, and it seems like I am most fit at challenging rather than accepting in the realm of thought, mind, etc. So it seems like that is where I should use my talents...? Obviously, I want a job, but I want something I can fool myself into thinking is relatively neutral. Which is really, REALLY hard to find when people you walk by on the sidewalk seem to use words that indicate they are paying attention to your posts on the internet.

(PARANOIA - as I experience it - IS A HELL OF A DRUG. TOTALLY WILD.)

[Hero]

Good point. Except...I did go into the Bat Mitzvah without belief, and came out with the understanding that it worked.....

I went into my own preparations for bar mitzvah without any religious dedication, just the desire to please my parents. And when I did everything well, I didn't get anything out of it except my family's pride and an excuse for them to get together and celebrate.

The traditional significance of the Bar/Bat Mitzvah ceremony is that the child is taking on the 613 obligations prescribed in the Torah, but how significant can this acceptance of responsibility be to somebody who does not believe that Torah is from god? I'll answer that ahead of you: It can't be anything more than symbolic.

Agreed. I do not look at someone without religion or spirituality and say, "you are missing something" but I do not look at someone with it and say "you are missing something."

Now, however, I am 22, and it seems like I am most fit at challenging rather than accepting in the realm of thought, mind, etc. So it seems like that is where I should use my talents...? Obviously, I want a job, but I want something I can fool myself into thinking is relatively neutral. Which is really, REALLY hard to find when people you walk by on the sidewalk seem to use words that indicate they are paying attention to your posts on the internet.

(PARANOIA - as I experience it - IS A HELL OF A DRUG. TOTALLY WILD.)

I think that paranoia is very close to spirituality. They are the same type of entity in the human mind, with similarities in their origins and sometimes their effects on behavior. The relative ease of building (and getting over) irrational paranoid reactions makes me think that the line between religious faith and disbelief is finer than many people think.

[Original Alear]

The traditional significance of the Bar/Bat Mitzvah ceremony is that the child is taking on the 613 obligations prescribed in the Torah, but how significant can this acceptance of responsibility be to somebody who does not believe that Torah is from god? I'll answer that ahead of you: It can't be anything more than symbolic.

I also seem to remember from shuul that not all of our commandments are possible to accomplish.

the line between religious faith and disbelief is finer than many people think.

I would agree. I would say it is so fine it is possible to straddle the two simultaneously with as much consistency as those who tend to stay in one camp or the other.

EDIT:

Heroe, because of the nature of THIS episode, I am not entirely sure the paranoia will ever subside without severe physical trauma to accompany the emotional trauma I sometimes experience right now. Unlike last time, I had the unfortunate experience of watching people on current events type stuff making as little sense as I did, meaning that I essentially became convinced that the rest of the english speaking world has been infected with whatever I have, if they didn't have it already. So, I am probably stuck with it.

Edited July 3, 2011 by Loki Laufeyjarson

[Hero]

I also seem to remember from shuul that not all of our commandments are possible to accomplish.

Regardless, that's the traditional conception of the Bar Mitzvah ceremony. Of course you're going to have trouble finding many Jews even outside of the West who live 100% according to Torah and Talmud. But there's a big difference between those who fall short because they don't try and those who constantly make a sincere effort.To these people, Jewish prayers and rituals hold a very different significance compared to more secular-thinking people.

I don't know how clear that came out. To give an example, in popular Jewish practice religion is often blended with culture to the point where everything seems arbitrary from an uninformed perspective. People don't know what they're saying or why when it comes to Hebrew and generally spend more time thinking about matzah balls and brisket around Pesach than the Hagadah. But for the ones who approach Judaism as their way of life, wearing silly clothes and praying all the time, Pesach is a different experience entirely because they approach it differently.

I would agree. I would say it is so fine it is possible to straddle the two simultaneously with as much consistency as those who tend to stay in one camp or the other.

What do you mean by "straddle the two"? My first instinct is that this is impossible, unless you are implying consistence in inconsistency. But what was your intention?

Heroe, because of the nature of THIS episode, I am not entirely sure the paranoia will ever subside without severe physical trauma to accompany the emotional trauma I sometimes experience right now. Unlike last time, I had the unfortunate experience of watching people on current events type stuff making as little sense as I did, meaning that I essentially became convinced that the rest of the english speaking world has been infected with whatever I have, if they didn't have it already. So, I am probably stuck with it.

I don't know that details of your situation. For me irrational fears have always faded away with time after their irrationality was exposed, but different peoples' minds work differently. I think a reasonably optimistic attitude is the best placebo.

[Original Alear]

What do you mean by "straddle the two"? My first instinct is that this is impossible, unless you are implying consistence in inconsistency. But what was your intention?

I would say I have never met someone who is entirely consistent, and many of those who I've thought were consistent turned out to be willing to go ahead and say things entirely inconsistent, and I have no idea why they did. Essentially, I don't trust consistency much more than I trust inconsistency. I am not, as it turns out, highly rational in my mind at the moment.

As for your comment on optimism, I would suggest that it does indeed bring the best results!