Janissary Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 (edited) I've been doing a lot of draft throughs lately (both old and new), so I decided to start another run of my favorite Fire Emblem game. I also had never done a LP/topic play through before, so I decided to record my runs and start this topic. With such pressure, I decided to do what I have come to call "The Average playthrough". The theory is that I am an average FE tactician as far as this community is concerned, so, while I can not replicate anything someone like Dondon151 can do even with growths, I can provide a target for the maximum number of turns an efficient playthrough will have. In order to ensure that this playthrough truly is average, I have installed the fixed growths patch, so I will not have any blessed or screwed characters, just... average. EDIT: Topic name changed to avoid confusion about what exactly is average about this. I will try my best to keep record of my purchases, and if I don't, I'll have the recordings, so I can look it up if I care that much. Rules: No tactician Get a Low Turn Count Recruit all characters (except Wallace and Karla and possibly Farina) Go to all Gaidens (except 19xx) Chapter 11: Not much to say really. I just had to run it about 10 times to get the result I knew was possible (since numbers aren't preordered in the fixed growths patch I learned). [spoiler=Turncounts] Chapter 11: 6 Chapter 12: 5 Chapter 13: 5 Chapter 13x: 8 Chapter 14: 5 Chapter 15: 8 Chapter 16: 5 Chapter 17: 8 Chapter 17x: 4 Chapter 18: 3 Chapter 19: 4 Chapter 19x: 5 Chapter 20: 8 Total: 74 [spoiler=Video Library] [spoiler=Item History and Expenditures] Chapter 11: Got Red Gem Chapter 12: Got Secret Book, Sold Secret Book, bought Iron Sword and Iron Axe Chapter 13: Got Torch, Sold Red Gem, bought Javelin x2 and Hand Axe Chapter 13x: Got 5000 Gold Chapter 14: Got Iron Blade Chapter 15: Got Silver Axe, Mend Staff, Dragonshield Chapter 16: Got Heavy Spear, Sold Blue Gem, bought Javelin x7, Hand Axe x4, Door Key x5, Heal Staff x3 Chapter 17: Got Hammer, Silver Sword, Unlock Staff, Hero Crest, Red Gem Chapter 17x: Got Sleep Staff, Devil Axe Chapter 18: Got Elysian Whip, Sold Red Gem, bought Javelin x5, Hand axe x3 Chapter 19: Got Torch x2 Chapter 19x: Got Silver Card Chapter 20: Got Member Card, Brave Bow, Killer Bow, Guiding Ring, Barrier Chapter 21: Got Elysian Whip, Restore, Light Rune, Wyrmslayer, Bought Javelin x5, Iron Sword x2, Pure Water x3 (with Silver Card) Pre-Chapter 22: Sold Iron Sword (25g), Torchx2 (300g), Sleep (750g), Light Rune (400g), and Devil Axe (450g) Cash on Hand: 6755 [spoiler=Resource Allocation] Chapter 12 Secret Book: Sold Erk's Goddess Icon: Raven Chapter 15 Dragonshield: Florina Chapter 17 Hero Crest: Raven Canas' Secret Book: Hector Chapter 18 Elysian Whip: Unused Uhai's Orion Bolt: Unused Chapter 20 Guiding Ring: Unused Chapter 21 Elysian Whip: Unused Chapter 22 Angelic Robe: Ninian Edited July 25, 2011 by Janissary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 If it's truly average, you wouldn't have rerun Chapter 11 to get a result you "knew was possible" - you would have rolled with the punches and gotten an 8 :P Still, I support this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janissary Posted July 9, 2011 Author Share Posted July 9, 2011 (edited) If it's truly average, you wouldn't have rerun Chapter 11 to get a result you "knew was possible" - you would have rolled with the punches and gotten an 8 :P Still, I support this. Well, to me, that's part of the averageness of it. It's well known that 6 turns is the fastest, and the level doesn't take much time, so I see no reason why an average player wouldn't do it until they got a 6 turn completion as long as I assume the average player wants to get a low turn count (especially since I savestated right after I made the settings changes ;) ). Hopefully Chapter 12 will be here soon. I had a good run going, but Bartre sucks. Edited July 9, 2011 by Janissary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 What's your average player's goal? Speaking as an average player for the most part, my goal isn't lowturning shit. It's punching through without resorting to obscenely high turn counts or massive cheese (breaking enemy weapons, etc). Your 6-turn hypothetical fastest clear is nothing any "average" player would shoot for for any reason at all. 8-10 would be fine, with anything above meaning you got chokepointed repeatedly and could probably have done that better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janissary Posted July 9, 2011 Author Share Posted July 9, 2011 (edited) What's your average player's goal? Speaking as an average player for the most part, my goal isn't lowturning shit. It's punching through without resorting to obscenely high turn counts or massive cheese (breaking enemy weapons, etc). Your 6-turn hypothetical fastest clear is nothing any "average" player would shoot for for any reason at all. 8-10 would be fine, with anything above meaning you got chokepointed repeatedly and could probably have done that better. My average player's goal to complete the game as fast as possible with little/no RNG abuse because the average player doesn't like the time involved. However, the six turn clear, which is widely known about, only took about 10-15 mins because I just did the same run again and again. If I didn't have to record it, I would have been able to do it even faster. So, basically, the average players wants to be good for the least amount of investment because America is lazy. Maybe by average player, I should restate to mean average SF player. EDIT: This run assumes I am the average player here. I'm not trying to play in someone's stead. Maybe I didn't communicate that well enough. Edited July 9, 2011 by Janissary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 I'd argue happily that the average player doesn't give a shit about the time involved (to a point) but rather budgets his gameplay on the effort involved. Restarting six times - even for a short map - is FAR more annoying than taking an extra three turns to complete it. That said, you did qualify that with *your* average player so I don't really have any ground to stand on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janissary Posted July 9, 2011 Author Share Posted July 9, 2011 (edited) I'd argue happily that the average player doesn't give a shit about the time involved (to a point) but rather budgets his gameplay on the effort involved. Restarting six times - even for a short map - is FAR more annoying than taking an extra three turns to complete it. That said, you did qualify that with *your* average player so I don't really have any ground to stand on. Though, to be fair, the average player typically isn't on this site, and doesn't record runs. So really this playthrough is a hypocrite. Yeah, basically, judging by what goes on here, I think I am a player of average ability on here. So, I am an average player, with average units, try to do the average efficiency run, in order to have a general sense of the turncount of the average run. Chapter 12: I completed this in 5 turns. I contemplated trying to get to 4 turns, but I realized I probably wouldn't be able to shop if I did that, so I stuck with this five turn completion. The strategy isn't exactly novel. Marcus is a beast, and everyone else just sort of killed what they could. I tried to feed kills to Eliwood when possible. Edited July 9, 2011 by Janissary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorena Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 (edited) An average play through would have failures in it. For example, you set the goal to S-rank, then you fail the first time because you made some mistakes like 4 staring tactics and losing out on experience or something. You learn from where you were low in, then try to make necessary changes on the 2nd playthrough and so on until you got it right. For example, your chapter 11 strategy is probably not thought of the first time people play the game. Oh, I can go west, take out those enemies, have the thief do the work for me while I send hector to go beat the boss and avoid most of the enemies in the south. Think back to how you play fire emblem before you got good at it and use that as your basis for average. Edited July 9, 2011 by Nyx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janissary Posted July 9, 2011 Author Share Posted July 9, 2011 (edited) An average play through would have failures in it. For example, you set the goal to S-rank, then you fail the first time because you made some mistakes like 4 staring tactics and losing out on experience or something. You learn from where you were low in, then try to make necessary changes on the 2nd playthrough and so on until you got it right. For example, your chapter 11 strategy is probably not thought of the first time people play the game. Oh, I can go west, take out those enemies, have the thief do the work for me while I send hector to go beat the boss and avoid most of the enemies in the south. Think back to how you play fire emblem before you got good at it and use that as your basis for average. We don't do that when arguing tier lists though; we assume the player is making good decisions and trying to get the lowest turn count possible. I am simply trying to set a max turncount with this playthrough because it's an "average" playthrough in growths and I am an "average" tactician on this site. This playthrough was never going to be an average (aka casual) player's experience with the game. If you read the first post, I never suggested that's what I was doing. If it was, I'd end up with an absurd turncount. Chapter 13: I completed this Chapter in 5 turns. Turn 1 starts with some cool rescue dropping stolen from DonDon so that Marcus can KO the first Cavalier. Hector positions himself to draw out a pegasus knight. Turn 2 consists of forward movement and Dorcas/Lowen doing a rescue drop of Hector to push him the two squares forward he needs to sieze on turn 5, as well as setting up Dorcas to draw a pegasus knight. Matthew follows to the recruit the killing edge Guy. Turn 3 sees Lowen rescuing Matt to move him to Guy for turn 5, and Marcus sets up to KO everything except the one Cavalier that heads to Hector. Hector's positioning is important because Marcus could not double that Cavalier while weighed down by a Javelin. Hector's critical simplified the whole affair. On turn 4, I make a noobish mistake and drop Matthew in Guy's range. Also, I use a trade chain to get Marcus an Iron Axe rather than waste Silver Lance uses on that noob of a boss. On Turn 5, I again use trade trick to be able to sell the Red Gem and buy Javelin x2 and a Hand Axe before the sieze. Everyone not mentioned was busy staying alive at the spawn point. Edited July 10, 2011 by Janissary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Banzai Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 The average player doesn't do an efficiency playthrough :V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Sage Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 The average player also thinks your mom is unattractive my dear Banzai. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janissary Posted July 10, 2011 Author Share Posted July 10, 2011 The average player doesn't do an efficiency playthrough :V Thanks. Average posters don't read the thread, and you've met that goal. We've already had a discussion about that and have clarified I'm a hypocrite. Oh well. The average player also thinks your mom is unattractive my dear Banzai. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janissary Posted July 10, 2011 Author Share Posted July 10, 2011 (edited) I'm not sure what's up with the first 1:20 of that video. If anyone can tell me, let me know how I can fix it. Thanks. Nothing special on this map. I just chilled and let Oswin tank up some XP while Marcus ran around to the village. Rebecca tried to mess it up on the last turn, but it worked out. 8 turn completion. EDIT: So it turns out it moved my last turnish to the start of the video? Does anyone know why this happens? Any advice on how to fix it? Thanks for any help. Edited July 10, 2011 by Janissary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toothache Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 I suspect it is because you aren't encoding these videos at all, just uploading the raw video. I made this mistake early on. My recommendation is to install Lagarith, and use that to capture the raw videos in future. If you are willing to do a bit of work, you can fix that sound desync as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janissary Posted July 10, 2011 Author Share Posted July 10, 2011 I suspect it is because you aren't encoding these videos at all, just uploading the raw video. I made this mistake early on. My recommendation is to install Lagarith, and use that to capture the raw videos in future. If you are willing to do a bit of work, you can fix that sound desync as well. Oh, should I be using a capture agent and not just the built in recording of the VBA? I didn't have any issues with the first 3 videos, so I thought I was ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toothache Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 If basic 1.7.2 VBA doesn't have this option, I recommend switching to the -rr version (downloadable from here) When you go to record with VBA, select this option after installing Lagarith: Your first three videos all have audio desync. Personally, you should be encoding the video and audio seperately then muxing them together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janissary Posted July 11, 2011 Author Share Posted July 11, 2011 Honestly, I didn't even think anyone listened to audio haha. The music is sort of a holdover. I'll be getting a mic soon for other reasons, so I'll probably start commentating after that. Thanks for the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 I use the ffdshow video codec when I record from VBA =/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janissary Posted July 14, 2011 Author Share Posted July 14, 2011 5 turns (sorry about the RNG abuse at the end of the video; it wasn't that major, and I wouldn't have done it if that wasn't the vulnerary Cav). Nothing too special going on here. I tried numerous strategies before settling on this one. It wasn't the greatest strategy ever, but it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janissary Posted July 14, 2011 Author Share Posted July 14, 2011 Hooray for easy levels! More Progress. 8 turn clear. Joke of a level. Raped on Sealen asap to stop reinforements. I was trying to figure out a way to get Oswin the kill rather than Marcus, which is why I just sat there for a bit on turn 2. Merlinus died, but tbh, I don't care. He's stupid anyway since there wasn't any shop this chapter. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with this Dragonshield. In other notes, you won't ever see Erk again. I forget to say that last chapter. Rebecca and Bartre have likely also been retired. Erk sucks without LM. His bases blow. For reference, the last spot in this chapter was a competition between Dorcas and Erk. Dorcas can survive a hit, so he won. Hooray for Javelins Lyn next chapter! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 So Erk didn't start killing shit as an NPC in your video either. Since he does in both Gergeshwan's video and my own, I'm guessing completing Lyn Mode causes Erk to attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janissary Posted July 14, 2011 Author Share Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) It would seem so. I would have preferred if he had done some damage. Chapter 16: Welcome to rescue Shenanigans. Notice Wil's epic speed on the double on turn 2. I'm slightly sad about no red gem, but I plan on wasting a turn (or however long) to get the silver card anyway. Edited July 14, 2011 by Janissary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janissary Posted July 14, 2011 Author Share Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) Chapter 17 8 turn clear. I derped and got the Silver Sword instead of the Knight Crest. Not sure what I was doing, but I wasn't going to play this chapter again to get the Knight Crest. Maybe a mistake, but oh well. Erk got fielded not because he's any good, but because he attacks Resistance and caused a little extra damage over Guy. EDIT: Oops, it's too long. What program does anyone use to accelerate the video? Edited July 14, 2011 by Janissary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 If it's long, I use Windows Movie Maker to adjust the speed to 1.5X or 2x the speed of the original. Of course, there are better ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janissary Posted July 14, 2011 Author Share Posted July 14, 2011 If it's long, I use Windows Movie Maker to adjust the speed to 1.5X or 2x the speed of the original. Of course, there are better ways. That should work fine. DLing WMM now so video should be up soon. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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