PKL Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 I always thought ewan and amelia would be way worse picks than marisa. I forgot how ridiculous her recruitment is. (As if it payed off what was IS thinking?) I like the idea of changing the draft order but i disagree with tethys being free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 I think RD's team is pretty competent. Early game power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk King Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 IS wasnt thinking that players would become obsessed with low turn counts, and definitely werent thinking people would do draft tournaments... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 (edited) What i mean is she doesnt even pay off statistically. She has lolstr lol durability poor move no 2 range options and is sword locked. If i went through the trouble of recruiting such a hard to recruit character i expect some kind of payoff. Intelligent systems were making her bad intentionally or they were drunk when they made her. Edited August 26, 2011 by PegKnightLover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 If Vanessa had the ability to use swords right off the bat, she would be perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 She'd be a monster in her joining chapter with swords lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk King Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Statistically Marisa isnt that bad. She is very close to Joshua. Same starting level, very close bases, very close growths, and she joins late enough to be a good candidate for Metis' tome. And she comes with a shamshir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 (edited) I hacked FE7 to give Florina swods along with a sword-using Peggie animation (Courtesy of MK404, R.I.P). It was awesome. I fangirl'd all day. @Hawk King: You should really add the context to that. Her joining time is relevant. She can't do much, and has paper-like durability. Edited August 26, 2011 by Angru Mainya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk King Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Yes, but as far as what Intelligent Systems was thinking for her, they included the tower so you could get units like her up to speed. And they included the Creature Campaign where she CAN be useful. Obviously, she is in no way, shape, or form "efficient". To get back on topic, maybe free turns could be given to make up for her recruitment? Or just stop after 7 rounds of drafting and have 4 undrafted units? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Free turns = eww. Maybe let ppl tower her to a lv. Kinda like the bexp base levels in por drafts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 That's too much. I drafted her like two times, and was successful training her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk King Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 by free turns im talking like 1 for Ephriam's route and 3 or 4 for Eirika's route. Im not sure exactly how many turns it takes to recruit her. Free levels are much more eww. I think the best thing to do though is just have 7 rounds. Or reverse the 8th round so the 1st drafter gets stuck with her... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Dragon Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Its not that they are auto-win, its just that Vanessa and Franz are way above everyone else If they are way above everyone else, that would make them auto-win. Another thing is that there are 8 rounds to SS drafts and in the 8th round then draft order ends up being 1,2,3,4. There are actually seven rounds, which results in that order. I can believe I didn't notice this before. I agree that in any draft where there is an odd number of rounds, the order of the picks should be reversed for the last round. @Soul: That was the general plan. I'm not sure how well it'll play out, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 (edited) You have to remember that most people who use Vanessa tend to get "lucky" with strength and defence blessings. It's a common theme for all drafts though. And Hawk King, you only beat Jan by that many turns because he got overconfidant that he would kick everyone's ass and kinda through the rest of the game. I'm sure it would be much closer if he redid it. Like, you only beat me by 9, and I had neither Franz, Vanessa, or Warp. Or a flier, and a 4 turn penalty. Chapter 3 - 6/18 Turns Franz saved a turn here, being able to drop Eirika in front of Bazba on turn 5. UNIT LEVEL HP STR SKL SPD LCK DEF RES WEP LVL SUPPORT Eirika 06.94 18 6 10 13 8 3 3 C Sword Franz 05.37 24 8 7 9 3 8 2 D Lance E Sword Chapter 4 - 6/24 Turns Franz saved another two turns here. I underestimated him severely. Eirika soloed the north, Franz took care of the rest. UNIT LEVEL HP STR SKL SPD LCK DEF RES WEP LVL SUPPORT Eirika 09.57 20 6 11 15 8 5 3 C Sword Franz 09.63 27 10 9 12 4 10 2 C Lance E Sword Edited August 30, 2011 by General_Horace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 (edited) Chapter 5 - 4/28 Turns Eirika got the armourslayer, while Franz ran to the boss, attacked him twice on turn 4, and finished him exactly on the EP. UNIT LEVEL HP STR SKL SPD LCK DEF RES WEP LVL SUPPORT Eirika 10.41 21 7 11 16 8 6 3 B Sword Franz 11.58 29 11 10 13 4 11 2 C Lance D Sword Chapter 5x - 8/36 Turns Forgot stats, got Killer Lance Chapter 6 - 4/40 Turns Franz doesn't have enough movement to reach in 3 turns. UNIT LEVEL HP STR SKL SPD LCK DEF RES WEP LVL SUPPORT Eirika 10.98 21 7 11 16 8 6 3 B Sword Franz 14.21 30 12 12 14 5 12 3 C Lance D Sword Chapter 7 - 7/47 Turns Fastest clear without Ness or Ross. UNIT LEVEL HP STR SKL SPD LCK DEF RES WEP LVL SUPPORT Eirika 12.66 23 7 13 18 11 7 3 B Sword Franz 17.03 32 12 13 16 6 15 3 B Lance D Sword I am not making up Franz's defence stat. Chapter 8 - 5/52 Turns Franz promoted. He had to hit 3/6 shots at 53 percent, not out of the question. So far, I'm thinking Franz should be banned. I beat my past turncount by 11, Hawk King's by 9, and Integ's by 13. My Franz is blessed defensively, but is average offensivley, so it didn't save any turns except he would have been 2HKO'd by Tirado, which would have reduced the odds of a quick clear. UNIT LEVEL HP STR SKL SPD LCK DEF RES WEP LVL SUPPORT Eirika 12.68 23 7 13 18 11 7 3 B Sword Franz 17/02.94 35 13 14 18 6 17 5 B Lance C Sword Chapter 9 - 9/61 Turns Franz carried three Javelins down, and killed the boss with the axereaver. Forde and Eirika killed the pirates and north enemy reinforcements. Franz is strength screwed. UNIT LEVEL HP STR SKL SPD LCK DEF RES WEP LVL SUPPORT Eirika 13.42 23 7 14 19 12 7 3 B Sword Franz 17/06.03 38 13 15 21 8 18 7 A Lance B Sword Forde 11.47 29 9 13 9 10 8 2 C Lance D Sword Chapter 10 - 6/67 Turns Forde sucked too much to do this in 5. However, I recruited Marisa this time around with the help of Tana ferrying Gerik. UNIT LEVEL HP STR SKL SPD LCK DEF RES WEP LVL SUPPORT Eirika 13.74 23 7 14 19 12 7 3 B Sword Franz 17/07.76 39 14 15 21 9 18 7 A Lance B Sword Forde 12.64 30 9 13 9 10 8 2 C Lance D Sword Innes ??/01.32 31 14 13 15 14 10 9 A Bow Tethys 01.42 18 1 2 12 10 5 4 Dancer Marisa 06.56 24 7 12 13 9 4 3 D Sword Edited August 26, 2011 by General_Horace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 You mistook chapter numbers there horace. Its chap 9 and 10. And yeah, ppl tend to get "lucky" with vanessa's str and def way too often from the drafts ive read. :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 You mistook chapter numbers there horace. Its chap 9 and 10. And yeah, ppl tend to get "lucky" with vanessa's str and def way too often from the drafts ive read. :/ Thanks for the correction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 My most recent Nessie got some shitty levels early on, then I got genuinely lucky (read: no resetting) later. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Oh, I just realized me and Horie tied for the FE8 Draft record. Congratulations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Dragon Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 (edited) I've only gotten really lucky with people's stats once, and that was Matthew being strength blessed enough to carry my team (consisting of him, Hector and Priscilla) until Fiora got good. He even went mano-a-mano with Uhai, and 2RKO'd him. It was awesome. I've never gotten lucky with Micaiah, though... Edited August 26, 2011 by Radiant Kitty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk King Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Horace, I could have done several chapter a turn or two faster but i didnt try to because i knew how many turns i was already ahead by. And i wasted alot of turns early on to train my other units which caused me to neglect training Vanessa. Also, 9 turns is alot to make up for. As far as being blessed, my Vanessa ended up being below average for most of her stats. The gap between Franz and the other cavs is much less than the gap between Vanessa and the other fliers. I dont see why everyone thinks Franz is so amazing. No one in this game is so good that they need to be banned. Yeah, sorry i meant 7 rounds, but you got my point anyway... Integrity, did you put the Eirika route draft in your draft thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 (edited) *snip*The gap between Franz and the other cavs is much less than the gap between Vanessa and the other fliers. *snip* Here's the thing, though: this statement is totally meaningless. We're not focusing specifically on Franz versus Kyle or Vanessa versus Cormag. We're focusing on Vanessa and Franz versus the other best draftees. Granted, in this case, Kyle is one of the other best draftees, but the point stands. Plus, how is the gap between Franz and Kyle NOT meaningful? Eight chapters - HALF THE GAME - means nothing? EDIT: Also, re: "No one in this game is so good that they need to be banned.", Seth. Edited August 27, 2011 by Integrity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk King Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Obviously Seth is an exception. My point was that Vanessa is more valuable than Franz. And even though they are much better than everyone else, there is no reason to ban them, especially not the inferior Franz. The reason they arent "auto-win" is because there is alot of depth among the rest of the characters and as long as the other drafters make smart picks they can still have a chance to win. Although, they can be "auto-win" because the skill level of the player is a factor in this. In the hands of a competent drafter and skilled player, the teams with Franz and Vanessa should be the 2 best teams. There are too many factors and not enough data, and "ban Franz/Vanessa" should not be the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 The skill level of the player shouldn't be taken into account when discussing characters like this - we HAVE to assume all drafters are roughly even. Here's the question posed: assuming all drafters perform at the same level and don't draft stupidly (like I did, natch), will the team with Franz and the team with Vanessa always take first and second in some order? Take it to the FE10 drafts: given all players of equal skill with myriad teams, the one with Haar has a MASSIVE advantage in shaving turns through Part 3 and even some of 4, while still retaining the best Brigadier for Part 1 (Sothe) and being able to supplement him with a B-lister who can perform adequately for Part 3 (Aran, etc.) That's why Haar is generally banned now. Vanessa and Franz are not broken to Haar's level, nor nearly, but I think it's much more of an issue than you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk King Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 I do think that if all drafters perform evenly, the teams with Vanessa and Franz will be the top 2 teams. Thats why i proposed the idea of adjusting the draft order to give them a weaker supporting cast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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