[FE8] The Decision...... Draft

[PKL]

I always thought ewan and amelia would be way worse picks than marisa. I forgot how ridiculous her recruitment is. (As if it payed off what was IS thinking?) I like the idea of changing the draft order but i disagree with tethys being free.

[Junkhead]

I think RD's team is pretty competent.

Early game power.

[Hawk King]

IS wasnt thinking that players would become obsessed with low turn counts, and definitely werent thinking people would do draft tournaments...

[PKL]

What i mean is she doesnt even pay off statistically. She has lolstr lol durability poor move no 2 range options and is sword locked. If i went through the trouble of recruiting such a hard to recruit character i expect some kind of payoff. Intelligent systems were making her bad intentionally or they were drunk when they made her.

Edited August 26, 2011 by PegKnightLover

[Junkhead]

If Vanessa had the ability to use swords right off the bat, she would be perfect.

[PKL]

She'd be a monster in her joining chapter with swords lol.

[Hawk King]

Statistically Marisa isnt that bad. She is very close to Joshua. Same starting level, very close bases, very close growths, and she joins late enough to be a good candidate for Metis' tome. And she comes with a shamshir.

[Junkhead]

I hacked FE7 to give Florina swods along with a sword-using Peggie animation (Courtesy of MK404, R.I.P). It was awesome. I fangirl'd all day.

@Hawk King: You should really add the context to that. Her joining time is relevant. She can't do much, and has paper-like durability.

Edited August 26, 2011 by Angru Mainya

[Hawk King]

Yes, but as far as what Intelligent Systems was thinking for her, they included the tower so you could get units like her up to speed. And they included the Creature Campaign where she CAN be useful.

Obviously, she is in no way, shape, or form "efficient".

To get back on topic, maybe free turns could be given to make up for her recruitment? Or just stop after 7 rounds of drafting and have 4 undrafted units?

[PKL]

Free turns = eww. Maybe let ppl tower her to a lv. Kinda like the bexp base levels in por drafts.

[Junkhead]

That's too much.

I drafted her like two times, and was successful training her.

[Hawk King]

by free turns im talking like 1 for Ephriam's route and 3 or 4 for Eirika's route. Im not sure exactly how many turns it takes to recruit her.

Free levels are much more eww.

I think the best thing to do though is just have 7 rounds. Or reverse the 8th round so the 1st drafter gets stuck with her...

[Radiant Dragon]

Its not that they are auto-win, its just that Vanessa and Franz are way above everyone else

If they are way above everyone else, that would make them auto-win.

Another thing is that there are 8 rounds to SS drafts and in the 8th round then draft order ends up being 1,2,3,4.

There are actually seven rounds, which results in that order. I can believe I didn't notice this before. I agree that in any draft where there is an odd number of rounds, the order of the picks should be reversed for the last round.

@Soul: That was the general plan. I'm not sure how well it'll play out, though.

[General Horace]

You have to remember that most people who use Vanessa tend to get "lucky" with strength and defence blessings. It's a common theme for all drafts though.

And Hawk King, you only beat Jan by that many turns because he got overconfidant that he would kick everyone's ass and kinda through the rest of the game. I'm sure it would be much closer if he redid it.

Like, you only beat me by 9, and I had neither Franz, Vanessa, or Warp. Or a flier, and a 4 turn penalty.

Chapter 3 - 6/18 Turns

Franz saved a turn here, being able to drop Eirika in front of Bazba on turn 5.

UNIT        LEVEL    HP  STR  SKL  SPD  LCK  DEF  RES  WEP LVL             SUPPORT
Eirika      06.94    18   6   10    13   8    3    3   C Sword
Franz       05.37    24   8    7    9    3    8    2   D Lance E Sword

Chapter 4 - 6/24 Turns

Franz saved another two turns here. I underestimated him severely. Eirika soloed the north, Franz took care of the rest.

UNIT        LEVEL    HP  STR  SKL  SPD  LCK  DEF  RES  WEP LVL             SUPPORT
Eirika      09.57    20   6   11    15   8    5    3   C Sword
Franz       09.63    27  10    9    12   4   10    2   C Lance E Sword

Edited August 30, 2011 by General_Horace

[General Horace]

Chapter 5 - 4/28 Turns

Eirika got the armourslayer, while Franz ran to the boss, attacked him twice on turn 4, and finished him exactly on the EP.

UNIT        LEVEL    HP  STR  SKL  SPD  LCK  DEF  RES  WEP LVL             SUPPORT
Eirika      10.41    21   7   11    16   8    6    3   B Sword
Franz       11.58    29  11   10    13   4   11    2   C Lance D Sword

Chapter 5x - 8/36 Turns

Forgot stats, got Killer Lance

Chapter 6 - 4/40 Turns

Franz doesn't have enough movement to reach in 3 turns.

UNIT        LEVEL    HP  STR  SKL  SPD  LCK  DEF  RES  WEP LVL             SUPPORT
Eirika      10.98    21   7   11    16   8    6    3   B Sword
Franz       14.21    30  12   12    14   5   12    3   C Lance D Sword

Chapter 7 - 7/47 Turns

Fastest clear without Ness or Ross.

UNIT        LEVEL    HP  STR  SKL  SPD  LCK  DEF  RES  WEP LVL             SUPPORT
Eirika      12.66    23   7   13    18  11    7    3   B Sword
Franz       17.03    32  12   13    16   6   15    3   B Lance D Sword

I am not making up Franz's defence stat.

Chapter 8 - 5/52 Turns

Franz promoted. He had to hit 3/6 shots at 53 percent, not out of the question.

So far, I'm thinking Franz should be banned. I beat my past turncount by 11, Hawk King's by 9, and Integ's by 13.

My Franz is blessed defensively, but is average offensivley, so it didn't save any turns except he would have been 2HKO'd by Tirado, which would have reduced the odds of a quick clear.

UNIT        LEVEL    HP  STR  SKL  SPD  LCK  DEF  RES  WEP LVL             SUPPORT
Eirika      12.68    23   7   13    18  11    7    3   B Sword
Franz    17/02.94    35  13   14    18   6   17    5   B Lance C Sword

Chapter 9 - 9/61 Turns

Franz carried three Javelins down, and killed the boss with the axereaver. Forde and Eirika killed the pirates and north enemy reinforcements. Franz is strength screwed.

UNIT        LEVEL    HP  STR  SKL  SPD  LCK  DEF  RES  WEP LVL             SUPPORT
Eirika      13.42    23   7   14    19  12    7    3   B Sword
Franz    17/06.03    38  13   15    21   8   18    7   A Lance B Sword
Forde       11.47    29   9   13     9  10    8    2   C Lance D Sword

Chapter 10 - 6/67 Turns

Forde sucked too much to do this in 5. However, I recruited Marisa this time around with the help of Tana ferrying Gerik.

UNIT        LEVEL    HP  STR  SKL  SPD  LCK  DEF  RES  WEP LVL             SUPPORT
Eirika      13.74    23   7   14    19  12    7    3   B Sword
Franz    17/07.76    39  14   15    21   9   18    7   A Lance B Sword
Forde       12.64    30   9   13     9  10    8    2   C Lance D Sword
Innes    ??/01.32    31  14   13    15  14   10    9   A Bow
Tethys      01.42    18   1    2    12  10    5    4   Dancer
Marisa      06.56    24   7   12    13   9    4    3   D Sword

Edited August 26, 2011 by General_Horace

[PKL]

You mistook chapter numbers there horace. Its chap 9 and 10. And yeah, ppl tend to get "lucky" with vanessa's str and def way too often from the drafts ive read. :/

[General Horace]

You mistook chapter numbers there horace. Its chap 9 and 10. And yeah, ppl tend to get "lucky" with vanessa's str and def way too often from the drafts ive read. :/

Thanks for the correction.

[Integrity]

My most recent Nessie got some shitty levels early on, then I got genuinely lucky (read: no resetting) later. :D

[Junkhead]

Oh, I just realized me and Horie tied for the FE8 Draft record. Congratulations.

[Radiant Dragon]

I've only gotten really lucky with people's stats once, and that was Matthew being strength blessed enough to carry my team (consisting of him, Hector and Priscilla) until Fiora got good. He even went mano-a-mano with Uhai, and 2RKO'd him. It was awesome.

I've never gotten lucky with Micaiah, though...

Edited August 26, 2011 by Radiant Kitty

[Hawk King]

Horace, I could have done several chapter a turn or two faster but i didnt try to because i knew how many turns i was already ahead by. And i wasted alot of turns early on to train my other units which caused me to neglect training Vanessa. Also, 9 turns is alot to make up for.

As far as being blessed, my Vanessa ended up being below average for most of her stats.

The gap between Franz and the other cavs is much less than the gap between Vanessa and the other fliers. I dont see why everyone thinks Franz is so amazing. No one in this game is so good that they need to be banned.

Yeah, sorry i meant 7 rounds, but you got my point anyway...

Integrity, did you put the Eirika route draft in your draft thread?

[Integrity]

*snip*

The gap between Franz and the other cavs is much less than the gap between Vanessa and the other fliers. *snip*

Here's the thing, though: this statement is totally meaningless. We're not focusing specifically on Franz versus Kyle or Vanessa versus Cormag. We're focusing on Vanessa and Franz versus the other best draftees. Granted, in this case, Kyle is one of the other best draftees, but the point stands.

Plus, how is the gap between Franz and Kyle NOT meaningful? Eight chapters - HALF THE GAME - means nothing?

EDIT: Also, re: "No one in this game is so good that they need to be banned.", Seth.

Edited August 27, 2011 by Integrity

[Hawk King]

Obviously Seth is an exception.

My point was that Vanessa is more valuable than Franz. And even though they are much better than everyone else, there is no reason to ban them, especially not the inferior Franz.

The reason they arent "auto-win" is because there is alot of depth among the rest of the characters and as long as the other drafters make smart picks they can still have a chance to win. Although, they can be "auto-win" because the skill level of the player is a factor in this. In the hands of a competent drafter and skilled player, the teams with Franz and Vanessa should be the 2 best teams. There are too many factors and not enough data, and "ban Franz/Vanessa" should not be the answer.

[Integrity]

The skill level of the player shouldn't be taken into account when discussing characters like this - we HAVE to assume all drafters are roughly even. Here's the question posed: assuming all drafters perform at the same level and don't draft stupidly (like I did, natch), will the team with Franz and the team with Vanessa always take first and second in some order?

Take it to the FE10 drafts: given all players of equal skill with myriad teams, the one with Haar has a MASSIVE advantage in shaving turns through Part 3 and even some of 4, while still retaining the best Brigadier for Part 1 (Sothe) and being able to supplement him with a B-lister who can perform adequately for Part 3 (Aran, etc.) That's why Haar is generally banned now.

Vanessa and Franz are not broken to Haar's level, nor nearly, but I think it's much more of an issue than you think.

[Hawk King]

I do think that if all drafters perform evenly, the teams with Vanessa and Franz will be the top 2 teams. Thats why i proposed the idea of adjusting the draft order to give them a weaker supporting cast.