Onmi Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Quite simply put, the maps created for the Hack "Fire Emblem 6: The Divine War" will be posted here. For clarification, I'm Onmi, I usually work on these maps with Mask-Kun, I started mapping about... oh a week ago? And I don't honestly think I'm any good at it. Still CHAPTER 1 The idea behind Chapter 1 was "Lets teach the player about 'War' Maps, while simultaneously kicking this off with a bang" Which of course lead to me going completely nuts with how I wanted to structure the chapter. I knew that I wanted to capture the feeling of being at war. I think Chapter 13 of the original FE6 did this really well. So of course I went as far to borrow dimensions from that map (though smaller, since FE7/8 can't handle the same map size FE6 can). The hardest part was and is (since I have no doubt I'll be changing this up) fighting those damn roads and trying to get them to all fit without having them look... well fake. I think I failed honestly, tried my best, but even now as I post this image I see a tile I have to go fix. --- CHAPTER ??? 'OPERATION: HELLS GATE' As a note, the Red squares simply indicate deployment slots, so yes if your apt at counting that's a 23 unit deploy limit (well 20, the 3 lords auto-deploy) which has lead some people to wonder just why, since Hells Gate looks like a bunch of passages. Let's get some history out of the way. When I was thinking about what I wanted to do that FE6 never did, I thought over each arc, came up with a lot of problems, but the Etruria arcs shortness and general desire to just get out of the way peeved me a little. You go from Rescuing Fa, to being at the capital already? no grand charge, just at the castle gates already? Well I wasn't satisfied with that, I think there are a few people who felt the same way. So why not cover that invasion? Hell's Gate is, in the terms of the hack, the reason Etruria doesn't GET invaded. It's a man made (yes man-made, more on that in a second) defensive location that is impregnable by boat, wyvern, pegasii, and ground troops. The choke points leave any ground troops easy pickings for the Ballista, and the forts and forests all slow the enemy down, the sheer cliff prevents any boat from docking and the same Ballista that rain hell upon the ground troops will take out any flying force. The Hell's Gate was created, decade upon decade, by the mages of Etruria. It's creative use of magic to be sure, but doing so has left an unnatural feel to the location. Nature does not, of course, create straight lines. And Hells Gate may not be straight, but it doesn't stop it from being unnerving. The idea of the map is simple. Cheat. Not literally cheat, but use what you know as the player to subvert the enemy. The cliffs were designed to stop ships from docking but Berserkers (Of which you can have two at this point, barring additions) can easily carry a unit over water and isn't at all bothered by the Ballista. Ballista which can in turn be turned against the Etrurian defense force, decimating their own air support, and letting your three air units (Thany, Tite, Miledy) move in and deploy the troops. They have Choke points, you have 3 generals and 2 Halberdiers. You have more tools I wont go into here. But the idea behind the map is "So how would I break this?" because the map is as straight forward, innocent and honest as possible. There is no FOW, there is no ambush spawning, stepping onto that arena wont spawn 3 Wyvern Lords wielding Killer Lances with stats larger than god, the enemies aren't uber units, This wont be a luck based mission, What you see is exactly what you get. There are no tricks on the enemy side, it's up to you to (legally and in the game) bend the rules to force the outcome you want. --- Taking all criticism, after all I wont learn or see my mistakes otherwise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) First map- The paths are too long and unrealistic. Not even getting into the fact that they're too straight (I've been yelled at for making them too wavy, so there's a medium to reach), they're far too inter-connected. If you see a real dirt path, they're a lot more... disconnected. Like, it kind of ends and picks up again a bit later. Secondly, the forests are spammy, cut off, and a lot of times you're using the wrong tile for it. Prime made a really great tutorial that kind of goes over most of the issues you have. I don't have time to go circle everything, but let's just say it needs work. Second- What kind of naturally-formed island is perfectly symmetrical like that? Then there's the fact that coastline cliffs don't actually work that way, they're a lot more rugged and not-straight. And the placement of the castles is kind of ridiculous, why would you spend the buildin resources to place 9 large forts/castles on the same island within maybe two hours' riding distance of each other? The big problem I see with everything of yours is that it's way too linear. No natural formation is going to be perfectly-formed. Make them more jagged, more curvy. Look at this one - Look at how the coastline and the cliffs "flow" and are rarely super-straight for a long time. Likewise, the paths are disconnected but still seem to follow the same kind of direction. Finally, while it's not the best ref due to the relatively small amount of trees, but you can kind of see how the trees are meant to fit together with the few that there are. EDIT: The cliffs there are wrong. Those cliffs are poorly drawn, but the idea is for the northern side of that tile to be lower in elevation. Not to mention that the grass there doesn't match up at all to the sand. Edited February 19, 2012 by Camtech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onmi Posted February 19, 2012 Author Share Posted February 19, 2012 First map- The paths are too long and unrealistic. Not even getting into the fact that they're too straight (I've been yelled at for making them too wavy, so there's a medium to reach), they're far too inter-connected. If you see a real dirt path, they're a lot more... disconnected. Like, it kind of ends and picks up again a bit later. Secondly, the forests are spammy, cut off, and a lot of times you're using the wrong tile for it. Prime made a really great tutorial that kind of goes over most of the issues you have. I don't have time to go circle everything, but let's just say it needs work. Second- What kind of naturally-formed island is perfectly symmetrical like that? Then there's the fact that coastline cliffs don't actually work that way, they're a lot more rugged and not-straight. And the placement of the castles is kind of ridiculous, why would you spend the buildin resources to place 9 large forts/castles on the same island within maybe two hours' riding distance of each other? The big problem I see with everything of yours is that it's way too linear. No natural formation is going to be perfectly-formed. Make them more jagged, more curvy. Look at this one - Look at how the coastline and the cliffs "flow" and are rarely super-straight for a long time. Likewise, the paths are disconnected but still seem to follow the same kind of direction. Finally, while it's not the best ref due to the relatively small amount of trees, but you can kind of see how the trees are meant to fit together with the few that there are. EDIT: The cliffs there are wrong. Those cliffs are poorly drawn, but the idea is for the northern side of that tile to be lower in elevation. Not to mention that the grass there doesn't match up at all to the sand. No Naturally formed island is perfectly symmetrical. Though first of all your whole train of thought is ridiculous, this is a Plateau. Secondly, I said it quite clearly, and in fact spelled out in detail, that the plateau was not naturally formed at all. The forts? The same reason they played God with a plateau for over a century. so they could have, in their minds, an impregnable defense line. Ships can't land, any land force is funneled through a series of bottle necks, where they are handily picked of by Ballista or Bolting of whatever other flavor of long range the Etrurians prefer that day. The entire thing is the entire reason Etruria sits so comfortably in it's power base. Although thank you for point out several issues with Chapter 1, I only heaped as my tree's as I did because people kept crying for them... well that and the forest maze, but that's another issue entirely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 I don't give a fuck if it's a plateau or an island or a motherfucking godly realm it's a cliff and cliffs get misshapen by the force of water. Man-made or no, it's surprisingly difficult to perfectly shape something when there's a little thing called the ocean that constantly is changing the thing you just carved. Unless there's some kind of magical dyke that is invisible, it still wouldn't be that straight and symmetrical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doga Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Camtech, calm down buddy. I think the maps are swell, but that's because my limited experience in mapping a few years ago was not anywhere as good as this. Something about that sentence is weird. Nevermind, keep up the good work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izanagi61 Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 (edited) a couple nitpicks. first map, fix the trees at the top. they look weird. second map, the armory should be closer to the capital shouldn't it? i mean the etruian army is gonna travel that far to stock their army. also the lake patches in the middle seem out of place. try using the giant mountain peaks. it'll look more natural and still give off that impregnable fortress feel. otherwise the maps are great. Edited February 20, 2012 by izanagi61 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chocolate Kitty Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 (edited) [10:48:54 PM] Super Dumpy_Kitteh: http://puu.sh/hC7o man this is like trying to fix a broken car with a tooth brush and a stale cookie so yeah, my advice is to just start fresh with this one. Edited February 20, 2012 by Kitty of Time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deranger Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 yeah, too many straight lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliban of Sycorax Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I agree. The straight lines make it jumbled and awkward. Although there are clear paths in many spots, you can mix it up with a few big patches of Road or even light grass to make it interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onmi Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 (edited) [10:48:54 PM] Super Dumpy_Kitteh: http://puu.sh/hC7o man this is like trying to fix a broken car with a tooth brush and a stale cookie so yeah, my advice is to just start fresh with this one. Really? Didn't seem to difficult to me Right now me and Mask are wondering if we should replace the inland water with Mountains instead. Right now the idea is still that the place hasn't been naturally formed. As said in chat while I was editing it "If the fucking elves get to manipulate their stupid woods with their magic in every fucking fantasy ever, the magic capital of Elibe can handle it" Bah just noticed the issue with the sandbank and fixed it. Working on Chapter 1, the big problem of course is making the forest feel natural, when it's trying to his something unnatural (A Choke point maze) but here's where it's at. Still need to fix the forest I can already tell Edited February 20, 2012 by Onmi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 (edited) AHA! That's it, you've got the concept. Still needs some cleaning up (you have cut-off tiles everywhere and I don't like the mid-islandPLATEAU water pools though that's just me. I still think it's a bit silly to have seven forts within a few square miles of each other, four I can understand given the concept but seven is still kind of overkill. Also, stop spamming the single-tile trees and try to mesh them together a bit more. Edited February 20, 2012 by Camtech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izanagi61 Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 forest looks alot better imo. now all you have to do is just fix the road. and i see you're considering my mountain peak idea. map looks alot better as it is, but the mountain could be good too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chocolate Kitty Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Really? Didn't seem to difficult to me That's because it's still pretty bad :E And that should be Mask and I btw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deranger Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Try not to have two of the exact same tiles adjacent to or diagonal from eachother. If you can avoid that, it'll eliminate allmost of your tile spam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 The problem with your forest is that the clearings aren't spaced out enough, and the trees don't fit together quite right. Maybe something like this? (yes I realize it's a different tileset my point still stands) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onmi Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 (edited) I'll try something like that. The problem with doing something like that (as I previously mentioned) is that the forest is hiding a choke-point maze (Pretty much Bors dream area) which makes it a little harder since I'm building a forest around that concept the impassable tree's all have to maintain a similar formation As you can see with all the other tree's cut out EDIT: Will post chapter 3 after I've corrected the height issue Edited February 21, 2012 by Onmi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celice Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) Some forest-based tilesets will have gradient tiles which shade the heavier dense thickets into the normal traversable forest tiles. Both your map and Cam's example mock have the same problem of not using these gradients. It's so artificial-looking that it's out of place and stutters. Edited February 21, 2012 by Celice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onmi Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) Okay Mask has moved onto Map 4, so here I am left with Map 3. Or in other-words How do I into perspective? Seriously I have re-sized these walls for hours upon hours and someone always finds something wrong. The area to the right is meant to be a dungeon, the topmost room contains Hector. the southern most room is a Jailors office. I can not make the map any larger height wise, so I'm trying to conserve detail. this is still WIP while Mask moves onto Chapter 4 (a straight combination of FE7 Chapter 14 and FE6 Chapter 4) Edited February 21, 2012 by Onmi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primefusion Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 It looks really...."wally". There's so much wall space going on. Maybe cut down on the walls to open up more space? At any rate, watch your height since I'm seeing some errors. Notably, the room south of the throne as well as the room on the left with 6 pillars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onmi Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 It looks really...."wally". There's so much wall space going on. Maybe cut down on the walls to open up more space? At any rate, watch your height since I'm seeing some errors. Notably, the room south of the throne as well as the room on the left with 6 pillars. Yeah I'm still editing it. It is Wally but... well you don't have a lot of units at this time. The goal is to go in, get Hector, get Lugh, kill the Head Gaoler (Warrior), kill the Lord (Halberdier) and then escape. It's only chapter 3 after all. Is our latest update, but Mask is taking it back to mess with the wall decorations. So I have to wait for his edits. still we should have the Height all correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primefusion Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Well, then my question is if you don't have a lot of units and it's only chapter 3 why in the world is the map so large? Early chapters are small for a reason. Oh, and that grass is awfully straight and box like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onmi Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 Because I'm very bad at scaling. Perhaps I'm showing my frustration at FE7/8's tiny map sizes? Any I'll fix the grass if Mask doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Some forest-based tilesets will have gradient tiles which shade the heavier dense thickets into the normal traversable forest tiles. Both your map and Cam's example mock have the same problem of not using these gradients. It's so artificial-looking that it's out of place and stutters. THere's no 'pure' forest tileset, unfortunately, leading to the lack of these gradients. There are some that mesh semi-well, (and I did try to use them as much as I could but as you can see I missed quite a few) but on the whole, any forest will have that issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celice Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 The tilesets in FE4 and FE5 don't have that problem, and they do not have "pure forest" tilesets :/ It's not a requirement, it's only whether the tiles exist or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onmi Posted February 22, 2012 Author Share Posted February 22, 2012 Well the maps are in the hand of Mask now, and I asked him to keep a look out for these things when working on the forest. From my copy though we got rid of the inland sea and one of the Forts on Operation: Hell's Gate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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